Peck's corner kicks and other shortcomings

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Glen Luce

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Peck took around 8 corners. Why? After his fourth consecutive corner was hit straight to the near post defender, he should have been removed from the job (note Moore replaced by Burrows with pens). The only corner that did not prove too short went way over the players. His free kicks were little better. Why not the gifted Burrows? Get an authoritative captain (when did we last have one?) out there who is trusted to make these adjustments as needed. We were rudderless again, slow, boring, uncreative and a deep disappointment. Wrong starting line up, both personnel and positions, uninformed by performance against Swansea. Despite spending attacking money and keeping his fingers crossed (failed expensively last time), Wilder's basic defensive mentality will depress any natural expressive talent his players might have. When they dare to go for it they are fluent and exciting to watch, but we bore too often; bad enough if you're there, even worse on t' telly.
 

Hamandcheese said:
I'd ask why he didn't take a single short corner but he'd probably be fined a weeks wages
Click to expand...
The Phrase s bad day at the office somes this up! Wilder got it wrong ! finally punished for slackness in midfield and defence ! how a team at the bottom out play and and want it more than us is disappointing, there's no doubt they were up for it more so than us.
Did Wilder read it wrong playing Diaz& Cannon looking for a fast start? They were sharper and a yard faster in everything they did ! Who was at the top and who was bottom on that showing.
Wilder has some sorting out to do! terracing empty by the end tells a story ! A worrying performance and crowd reaction.
Let's not kid ourselves of the 4 teams chasing 2 places we are the outsiders ! The other 3 have much more balance in the squad trying to put that right is a tall order.
Not a negative fan! just think we will fall into playoffs! Our turn to win them!.
 
Peck's starts overall are good (check the stats thread).

Yesterday's corners not great and also not the first time that the opposition have scored from a Peck pass that lacked focus. Fairly frequently he'll play the ball to the man rather than into the space for the teammate to run onto, which shows down the move, but those are tiny quibbles. He's had to step up and run the midfield, something that he couldn't have dreamed of and which puts him in the firing line. Done incredibly well.

BBD with the early chance looked like he might just get off to a fast start, but struggled with control and general match sharpness.
 
He was more miss than hit last night.

Taking into account the fact that have we actually scored from a corner this season ?, why do we not mix it up a bit with the odd short corner, as mentioned previously.

Just continually swinging it into the box, exactly the same as our long throws, is achieving little.
 
finlaytheblade said:
The Phrase s bad day at the office somes this up! Wilder got it wrong ! finally punished for slackness in midfield and defence ! how a team at the bottom out play and and want it more than us is disappointing, there's no doubt they were up for it more so than us.
Did Wilder read it wrong playing Diaz& Cannon looking for a fast start? They were sharper and a yard faster in everything they did ! Who was at the top and who was bottom on that showing.
Wilder has some sorting out to do! terracing empty by the end tells a story ! A worrying performance and crowd reaction.
Let's not kid ourselves of the 4 teams chasing 2 places we are the outsiders ! The other 3 have much more balance in the squad trying to put that right is a tall order.
Not a negative fan! just think we will fall into playoffs! Our turn to win them!.
Click to expand...
Winning the play offs with Wilder in charge now Sunderland are looking strong seems very optimistic I'm afraid. It'll be like Blackwell v Burnley again

Maybe Peck can assume the Stephen Quinn 'hook it aimlessly over your shoulder' role. Kieffer to star as Craig Beattie, not because Cannon is injured but because it became obvious Kieffer was just the better option....
 
AnstonBlade1 said:
its something that grates on me, professional footballers who can’t beat the first man from a corner
Click to expand...

It grates me when fans say that a player “can’t” beat the first man. Of course they can - it’s just that a ‘safe’ corner is way less effective.

The ideal corner needs to be (jumping) head height when it reaches the six-yard box. There are two ways to do this:

1. Whip it in fast, with a low trajectory. This will ideally beat the first man by about six inches, but there is obviously a risk that if it is slightly out, it gets cleared by the first man. Unless the player is Messi or Beckham, there is a reasonable chance that it won’t be perfect every time.

2. Play a slower ‘lofted’ ball in. This will almost certainly beat the first man, but will be much easier to defend and the keeper has time to read the trajectory.

For the first option, it’s risky. There is a 60% chance that it doesn’t beat the first man. However, on the 40% of times that it does get through, it’s a bastard to defend and can result in goals.

The second option has a very low goal conversion rate.

Overall, the first option is the better bet, even though fans inevitably get frustrated by it. That’s why so many teams “can’t” beat the first man - they’re just playing the percentages.
 
We've scored 1 header this season. 1!

And we're 19th in the league for accurate crosses per game. Yet we still look to cross a lot. 19th is abysmal considering we've got Burrows and Hamer that should be able to drop it on someone's head, and when we've also got Robinson with his throw.

Wilder and the coaching team must be aware of these stats so the definition of insanity comes in to it.

I remember a quote from Hecky where he basically said he wants us to get it in the box and hope the ball drops to one of our players, so it sounds like that's still a tactic. We can't "hope for the best" in these leagues, we need to make it happen. We might get the odd bit of luck but based on the stats it's clearly not when we're launching it in the box.
 
Nedski said:
We've scored 1 header this season. 1!

And we're 19th in the league for accurate crosses per game. Yet we still look to cross a lot. 19th is abysmal considering we've got Burrows and Hamer that should be able to drop it on someone's head, and when we've also got Robinson with his throw.

Wilder and the coaching team must be aware of these stats so the definition of insanity comes in to it.

I remember a quote from Hecky where he basically said he wants us to get it in the box and hope the ball drops to one of our players, so it sounds like that's still a tactic. We can't "hope for the best" in these leagues, we need to make it happen. We might get the odd bit of luck but based on the stats it's clearly not when we're launching it in the box.
Click to expand...
Does accurate crossing mean someone attacking the ball cus we win very few challengers in the opposing box.We do ok in defensive challenges! Have we enough aggression at corners! The stats say not and that was true when Soutter played as well.We have to do better.
 
Geordie Blade said:
It grates me when fans say that a player “can’t” beat the first man. Of course they can - it’s just that a ‘safe’ corner is way less effective.

The ideal corner needs to be (jumping) head height when it reaches the six-yard box. There are two ways to do this:

1. Whip it in fast, with a low trajectory. This will ideally beat the first man by about six inches, but there is obviously a risk that if it is slightly out, it gets cleared by the first man. Unless the player is Messi or Beckham, there is a reasonable chance that it won’t be perfect every time.

2. Play a slower ‘lofted’ ball in. This will almost certainly beat the first man, but will be much easier to defend and the keeper has time to read the trajectory.

For the first option, it’s risky. There is a 60% chance that it doesn’t beat the first man. However, on the 40% of times that it does get through, it’s a bastard to defend and can result in goals.

The second option has a very low goal conversion rate.

Overall, the first option is the better bet, even though fans inevitably get frustrated by it. That’s why so many teams “can’t” beat the first man - they’re just playing the percentages.
Click to expand...
Spot on. We nearly scored from a Peck corner and some of his others were very dangerous. The ones that riled the crowd weren't a million miles off being fantastic corners but, as you said, they look bad when they don't come off. I would've preferred for him to keep trying what he was doing but I think the crowd might've influenced his/our decision with that.

Personally, I'd be reluctant to take 'advice' from a crowd that are so bright they booed this team, after all they've done so far this season, off at half-time.
 
Nedski said:
We've scored 1 header this season. 1!

And we're 19th in the league for accurate crosses per game. Yet we still look to cross a lot. 19th is abysmal considering we've got Burrows and Hamer that should be able to drop it on someone's head, and when we've also got Robinson with his throw.

Wilder and the coaching team must be aware of these stats so the definition of insanity comes in to it.

I remember a quote from Hecky where he basically said he wants us to get it in the box and hope the ball drops to one of our players, so it sounds like that's still a tactic. We can't "hope for the best" in these leagues, we need to make it happen. We might get the odd bit of luck but based on the stats it's clearly not when we're launching it in the box.
Click to expand...

Can someone remind me of the one headed goal we have scored?
 

Hamandcheese said:
Winning the play offs with Wilder in charge now Sunderland are looking strong seems very optimistic I'm afraid. It'll be like Blackwell v Burnley again

Maybe Peck can assume the Stephen Quinn 'hook it aimlessly over your shoulder' role. Kieffer to star as Craig Beattie, not because Cannon is injured but because it became obvious Kieffer was just the better option....
Click to expand...
are you always this optimistic?
 
Geordie Blade said:
It grates me when fans say that a player “can’t” beat the first man. Of course they can - it’s just that a ‘safe’ corner is way less effective.

The ideal corner needs to be (jumping) head height when it reaches the six-yard box. There are two ways to do this:

1. Whip it in fast, with a low trajectory. This will ideally beat the first man by about six inches, but there is obviously a risk that if it is slightly out, it gets cleared by the first man. Unless the player is Messi or Beckham, there is a reasonable chance that it won’t be perfect every time.

2. Play a slower ‘lofted’ ball in. This will almost certainly beat the first man, but will be much easier to defend and the keeper has time to read the trajectory.

For the first option, it’s risky. There is a 60% chance that it doesn’t beat the first man. However, on the 40% of times that it does get through, it’s a bastard to defend and can result in goals.

The second option has a very low goal conversion rate.

Overall, the first option is the better bet, even though fans inevitably get frustrated by it. That’s why so many teams “can’t” beat the first man - they’re just playing the percentages.
Click to expand...
I literally sat there last night and watched Peck take half a dozen corners each of which hit their man on the front post
 
AnstonBlade1 said:
its something that grates on me, professional footballers who can’t beat the first man from a corner
Click to expand...

They could all beat the first man every time if they wanted to. Trouble is that it puts it into an area of the box where you are much less likely to score, hence why most corner takers will aim to get it over the first man, but only just, in order to put it into a position where you are most likely to get a good chance. It's very simple percentages.

Edit - Geordie has explained it much better than I have already
 
Geordie Blade said:
It grates me when fans say that a player “can’t” beat the first man. Of course they can - it’s just that a ‘safe’ corner is way less effective.

For the first option, it’s risky. There is a 60% chance that it doesn’t beat the first man. However, on the 40% of times that it does get through, it’s a bastard to defend and can result in goals.
Click to expand...

Where do you come up with that for any given corner there’s only a 40% chance that a player can actually beat the first man?

Peck’s corners were terrible yesterday, his technique gave a look of a player who doesn’t normally take them.

Half of our problem is we simply don’t have the bully-boy players who have a burning desire to get on the end of a corner. JLT for instance, seldom wins a 50/50 aerial challenge in open play.
 
jt64 said:
They could all beat the first man every time if they wanted to. Trouble is that it puts it into an area of the box where you are much less likely to score, hence why most corner takers will aim to get it over the first man, but only just, in order to put it into a position where you are most likely to get a good chance. It's very simple percentages.

Edit - Geordie has explained it much better than I have already
Click to expand...

Have you watched Arsenal’s corners? They aren’t playing this silly % game. They have multiple routines with consistent deliveries for each, and players who can head a ball.
 
It is inexcusable to hit the first man from a corner, but having said that the 18 yard box looked like Hull were playing an Under 10’s team, such was the difference in physical size.

But surely that was obvious to everyone and playing a short corner was a great alternative in those circumstances? What’s happened to Alan Knills much lauded free kick drills and short corner routines?

As a team we are so one dimensional, slow and predictable and I don’t see it changing without a fresh approach from the management, wether that be Wilder adopting a more urgent style of play or the board adopting a new management team, but something has to give.
 
AnstonBlade1 said:
I literally sat there last night and watched Peck take half a dozen corners each of which hit their man on the front post
Click to expand...

You also saw one that almost went directly in (good save by the keeper) and one that Robinson fizzed just past the dad post.
 
If after watching that your only issues are with Peck's corner taking, then fuck me, I've got some magic beans you might be interested in...

Whatever keeps the attention away from the elephant in the room. ...
 
Peck was playing under instructions to place the corners as close to the goal as possible. There are no excuses for hitting the first man but don't let us expect the players to be allowed any personal initiative or creativity.
 

Glen Luce said:
Peck took around 8 corners. Why? After his fourth consecutive corner was hit straight to the near post defender, he should have been removed from the job (note Moore replaced by Burrows with pens). The only corner that did not prove too short went way over the players. His free kicks were little better. Why not the gifted Burrows? Get an authoritative captain (when did we last have one?) out there who is trusted to make these adjustments as needed. We were rudderless again, slow, boring, uncreative and a deep disappointment. Wrong starting line up, both personnel and positions, uninformed by performance against Swansea. Despite spending attacking money and keeping his fingers crossed (failed expensively last time), Wilder's basic defensive mentality will depress any natural expressive talent his players might have. When they dare to go for it they are fluent and exciting to watch, but we bore too often; bad enough if you're there, even worse on t' telly.
Click to expand...

Fair point about the corners, it was playground tactics as there was a cluster of 4/5 Hull defenders before a red & white shirt could be seen, yet we continued.

It was amazing, given the amount of corners, and long throws we had that we got absolutely nothing for them.

Hull success was down to the fact that they did exactly what every team who comes to the Lane does, put everyone behind the ball, wait for us to lose it and then counter swiftly - only they did it better than most.

We have to adapt, outfield players spreading quickly, distribution improving and speeding up, pace generally injecting.
 
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