Ownership update !

All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?

B14Nco said:
I at no point have said I think the job he’s done is a failure but I do however believe it will be seen as a bit of a failure to people outside the club.

There isn’t an argument to be had, It’s just a fact that Managing team top of championship with little budget - is an Amazing job and his stock was at an all time high.

Finishing 7th regardless of budget does not attract the same kudos.
Click to expand...

Noone in the wider footballing world could possibly consider United finishing outside the top 6 as any size of failure on Wilder's behalf. We were overachieving early season and still above par now. Had he been backed to the tune of 10-20 million quid you may have a point, but that aint a predicament he's likely to be in at the Lane. His stock still rises.
 

Esablade said:
The problem I'm having with McCabe's line here:

“I brought Prince Abdullah in for one key reason. Wealth, to invest in football, to invest in a big club in getting back to the Premiership then who knows what,” said McCabe

...is who in their right mind would put significantly more cash into a business than the other partner who also own's 50%.
It appears that McCabe wants Princey to stump up what he's pumped into the Blades over 20 years...
Click to expand...
Agree with that, but I also think that the pair of em sticking in £4 million a year just cover running costs is also crackers

Obviously Millionaires think differently about money to me :)
 
B14Nco said:
I at no point have said I think the job he’s done is a failure but I do however believe it will be seen as a bit of a failure to people outside the club.

There isn’t an argument to be had, It’s just a fact that Managing team top of championship with little budget - is an Amazing job and his stock was at an all time high.

Finishing 7th regardless of budget does not attract the same kudos.
Click to expand...

Your post #488 made it clear that not to achieve consecutive promotions would be seen as a failure. By that standard Brian Clough's failure to win three consecutive European cups made him a failure.

I think that those within professional football will judge a manager over a longer period than just a few seasons, and so far Wilder has done superbly well. Given all the factors that we're all familiar with, no one can claim that Wilder's stock has dropped. If we'd have dropped below the relegation line then Wilder might have suffered immeasurably, but we haven't and he hasn't. The key to all these questions lie outside of Wilder's control. Wilder has been given pocket money rather than a realistic budget that's comparable to most ambitious clubs in the Championship. Once that's addressed then I think we'll see a significant improvement in the team's progress.
 
Cerberus Blade said:
Sorry mate, I have to disagree. Taking a team that came up from League 1 and is made up of lower league players and having little or no budget to compete at Championship level, is an achievement in itself. If we'd finished 4th bottom that would still be the case. Wilder's stock is high, based not just on this season but all previous as well, including Oxford and Northampton. What Wilder has shown is that he consistently gets results and gets those results in adverse circumstances with little money.

If there's any lack of kudos, it's his lack of "foreign" experience -that's all.
Click to expand...

There are parts of this I agree with. If you’re a mid table championship club or a biggish LG 1 club looking for a manager I believe your points hold true. Managers get the opportunity and kudos they deserve to make those jumps.

However when you’re looking at the top championship jobs or any Prem job (that’s not a desperation appointment) I don’t think any of the things you mention are even considered. His track record at oxford and Northampton and his ability with lower league players got him this job.

Thing is he wants to be considered in a different bracket now which (rightly or wrongly) does not look at the budget you have or track record in LG1.

You either need (like you state) experience of managing foreign ‘stars’ or success based on league position. IMO.
 
Esablade said:
The problem I'm having with McCabe's line here:

“I brought Prince Abdullah in for one key reason. Wealth, to invest in football, to invest in a big club in getting back to the Premiership then who knows what,” said McCabe

...is who in their right mind would put significantly more cash into a business than the other partner who also own's 50%.
Click to expand...
The FFP rules in the Championship (I think) are that any loss over £5M has to be converted to equity.

The agreement with the Prince appears to have been £10M pumped in up front with the last 2 or 3 seasons both McCabe and the Prince covering losses 50/50.

Obviously I don't know but for this season and future seasons, the Prince could cover more of the losses and gradually alter the balance. For arguments sake 55:45 to start with. The problem for McCabe is the minute he goes under 50%, he can be outvoted. Also, has someone said that at 75% the Prince has to buy the stadium?

I can therefore see a scenario where the Prince can put more in. However, I don't think a joint ownership will last up to that point.

We don't know but I get the feeling Kevin wants to sell (including the stadium at the best price he can get) partly because it's time but partly because he doesn't want to fund any further losses going forward. We might break even this season because of the Walker / Maguire money but I would think both are looking at £5M per year losses each going forward to more or less tread water.

Things will become clearer when we know if we have a chance of promotion. Should this happen, then everyone's happy. McCabe is carried shoulder high from the stadium having returned the club and with a wedge in his pocket.

The more likely scenario is we don't get promotion and I think we'll eventually see a deal before next season. My view now is that the Prince will take over. Whether it's him or McCabe, they have to have additional investment partners to push for the PL or what's the point.

We shall see.
 
B14Nco said:
There are parts of this I agree with. If you’re a mid table championship club or a biggish LG 1 club looking for a manager I believe your points hold true. Managers get the opportunity and kudos they deserve to make those jumps.

However when you’re looking at the top championship jobs or any Prem job (that’s not a desperation appointment) I don’t think any of the things you mention are even considered. His track record at oxford and Northampton and his ability with lower league players got him this job.

Thing is he wants to be considered in a different bracket now which (rightly or wrongly) does not look at the budget you have or track record in LG1.

You either need (like you state) experience of managing foreign ‘stars’ or success based on league position. IMO.
Click to expand...

Fair comment, but what I disagree with is this notion of yours that if he finishes in the top one or two he's highly rated and if he finishes 7th he isn't. That's just plain silly, because anyone looking at what he's achieved would consider both of those as very significant achievements. Any reasonable person looking at what Wilder has delivered this season would be impressed, whether we finish top or 10th. That's my point.
 
itsinyerblood said:
Your post #488 made it clear that not to achieve consecutive promotions would be seen as a failure. By that standard Brian Clough's failure to win three consecutive European cups made him a failure.
Click to expand...

Really? You’ve gone straight there?

Can we at least agree that when we were Top Wilders Stock was as high as it’s ever been?

My opinion (and apparently mine alone) is that whilst we were top, playing well on sky etc Wilders name was at least ‘mentioned’ in the media regarding Everton and Burnley jobs and what an amazing job he’s doing. I’m pretty sure we finish outside the play-offs and a similar circumstance arises he wouldn’t be mentioned.

And he’ll be aware of that. That’s all I’m saying.
 
Cerberus Blade said:
Fair comment, but what I disagree with is this notion of yours that if he finishes in the top one or two he's highly rated and if he finishes 7th he isn't. That's just plain silly, because anyone looking at what he's achieved would consider both of those as very significant achievements. Any reasonable person looking at what Wilder has delivered this season would be impressed, whether we finish top or 10th. That's my point.
Click to expand...
I don’t disagree... it’s a huge achievement. All I’m saying is finish top 6 = highly rated finish 10th and obviously not be ‘as’ highly rated. The bit that seems controversial to everyone... I genuinely believe his standing in football (with regards to his ambition to manage a prem club and their keenness to employ) is nowhere near where it would be if we finish 10th as opposed to making the play offs.
 
Esablade said:
The problem I'm having with McCabe's line here:

“I brought Prince Abdullah in for one key reason. Wealth, to invest in football, to invest in a big club in getting back to the Premiership then who knows what,” said McCabe

...is who in their right mind would put significantly more cash into a business than the other partner who also own's 50%.
Click to expand...
Well I think that's why McCabe only charged £1 for half the club , expecting the prince to invest rest in the first team .
 
Esablade said:
I hope it's sorted a far bit before next season... :(
Click to expand...
There's a reason the Prince's representative told James Shield he's concentrating on promotion first.

I fully expect Chris to keep us in with a shout until the last game, so I don't think the Prince will do any serious negotiating before then.

I guess they could all sort it out in May and tell Chris his budget in June but ........................

They need to fully agree it's Prince (with new partner?) or Prince makes up with McCabe and they carry on or McCabe somehow forces out the Prince and brings in a new partner. I can't see how financing and a budget can be agreed until it's resolved. It could well be cutting it fine to allow timely recruitment.
 
B14Nco said:
Really? You’ve gone straight there?

Can we at least agree that when we were Top Wilders Stock was as high as it’s ever been?

My opinion (and apparently mine alone) is that whilst we were top, playing well on sky etc Wilders name was at least ‘mentioned’ in the media regarding Everton and Burnley jobs and what an amazing job he’s doing. I’m pretty sure we finish outside the play-offs and a similar circumstance arises he wouldn’t be mentioned.

And he’ll be aware of that. That’s all I’m saying.
Click to expand...

Trouble is, you've applied a simplified set of perspectives by which to judge Wilder. He has said he's ambitious but that he wishes this to happen under his guidance as our manager. Naturally, should Wilder do well then of course he'll become an attractive proposition for other clubs. What needs to happen is for the ongoing boardroom confusion to be resolved, otherwise no one should be surprised if Wilder and Knill leave this club.

I doubt Wilder spends much time wondering about his managerial stock. He'll be far too busy focusing on the daily running of this club to be concerned about his own position in the managerial merry-go-round. Only by doing well at United will anyone know what the future holds, and should we do well then maybe questions about which club Wilder manages will answer themselves. If the stresses and strains that seem tangible between KM and the Prince continue then watch the managerial thermometer heat up to levels we might regret.
 
Bill puntin said:
Well I think that's why McCabe only charged £1 for half the club , expecting the prince to invest rest in the first team .
Click to expand...

It would seem that whatever agreement they came to for Princey's pound, only lasted three (L1) years, then they started splitting the costs as 'equal partners'.
 

B14Nco said:
I don’t disagree... it’s a huge achievement. All I’m saying is finish top 6 = highly rated finish 10th and obviously not be ‘as’ highly rated. The bit that seems controversial to everyone... I genuinely believe his standing in football (with regards to his ambition to manage a prem club and their keenness to employ) is nowhere near where it would be if we finish 10th as opposed to making the play offs.
Click to expand...

Yes, there is a difference between 10th and top for sure. But also, it's all about expectations. That's what matters, not league position per se. If your line of argument was correct then 10th would be less credible than 9th, 11th less credible than 10th, 12th less credible than 11th and so on. It doesn't work like that.

Anyone judging Wilder on his achievements this season would look at where they may have expected United to finish (roughly, i.e. top 2, top 6, top half, mid-table, bottom half, relegation zone) and judge progress on that - contrasted with the circumstances he's had to deal with.

There are other factors though as well.

Having employed literally hundreds of folks in my career, I would say the most important thing is how well the employer thinks they will fit in with them. If a football club is looking for a no-nonsense, tell it like it is, work on a shoe-string, get the fans onside, type manager then Wilder stands out a mile. If a football club is looking for someone with extensive Prem experience, or deep knowledge of the foreign game, international experience, etc., then Wilder wouldn't get a look in. So, that counts as well, hugely so.

Look, it's like this...

Wilder is a very good manager - but he won't be everyone's cup of tea. I can't see him being offered the job at Man City, Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs, Liverpool anytime soon. But he could definitely be offered a West Brom or a Southampton or a Stoke type job, or some other "failing" Prem team ( a bit like what happened to Carlos the Jackal with Swansea).

Why would he be interested? He probably wouldn't, at this point in time. But give it until the end of this year/January transfer window - and if Wilder hasn't been backed and feels he can't take this club any further he'd be crazy not to jump ship if a bigger job came up. And I think he will. And I wouldn't blame him one bit.
 
UnitedBlade said:
There's a reason the Prince's representative told James Shield he's concentrating on promotion first.

I fully expect Chris to keep us in with a shout until the last game, so I don't think the Prince will do any serious negotiating before then.

I guess they could all sort it out in May and tell Chris his budget in June..
I can't see how financing and a budget can be agreed until it's resolved. It could well be cutting it fine to allow timely recruitment.
Click to expand...
Bering In mind that the summer window will basically mean the players we have at the start of play will be ‘what we are stuck with for the season!’
 
Cerberus Blade said:
Yes, there is a difference between 10th and top for sure. But also, it's all about expectations. That's what matters, not league position per se. If your line of argument was correct then 10th would be less credible than 9th, 11th less credible than 10th, 12th less credible than 11th and so on. It doesn't work like that.

Anyone judging Wilder on his achievements this season would look at where they may have expected United to finish (roughly, i.e. top 2, top 6, top half, mid-table, bottom half, relegation zone) and judge progress on that - contrasted with the circumstances he's had to deal with.

There are other factors though as well.

Having employed literally hundreds of folks in my career, I would say the most important thing is how well the employer thinks they will fit in with them. If a football club is looking for a no-nonsense, tell it like it is, work on a shoe-string, get the fans onside, type manager then Wilder stands out a mile. If a football club is looking for someone with extensive Prem experience, or deep knowledge of the foreign game, international experience, etc., then Wilder wouldn't get a look in. So, that counts as well, hugely so.

Look, it's like this...

Wilder is a very good manager - but he won't be everyone's cup of tea. I can't see him being offered the job at Man City, Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs, Liverpool anytime soon. But he could definitely be offered a West Brom or a Southampton or a Stoke type job, or some other "failing" Prem team ( a bit like what happened to Carlos the Jackal with Swansea).

Why would he be interested? He probably wouldn't, at this point in time. But give it until the end of this year/January transfer window - and if Wilder hasn't been backed and feels he can't take this club any further he'd be crazy not to jump ship if a bigger job came up. And I think he will. And I wouldn't blame him one bit.
Click to expand...
I just don’t think he’ll even be considered unless he has some sort of championship level success (which isn’t relative to how good a job he’s done considering budget etc).

You’re not telling me if clubs look at the full picture numpties like Alan Pardew come out on top? And to counter that to some extent Millwall, Bolton, Ipswich and even Burton have managers that are doing outstanding jobs but could you see them getting a prem opportunity or considered a top end manager? I think we’re a little blinkered because we see what Wilder has done and think everyone should give him the credit he deserves... I just don’t think that’s the case or how the wider football world sees it.
 
"Wilder is a very good manager - but he won't be everyone's cup of tea. I can't see him being offered the job at Man City, Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs, Liverpool anytime soon. But he could definitely be offered a West Brom or a Southampton or a Stoke type job, or some other "failing" Prem' team ( a bit like what happened to Carlos the Jackal with Swansea).

Why would he be interested? He probably wouldn't, at this point in time. But give it until the end of this year/January transfer window - and if Wilder hasn't been backed and feels he can't take this club any further he'd be crazy not to jump ship if a bigger job came up. And I think he will. And I wouldn't blame him one bit."

Spot on mate. For some his lack of "perceived eloquence" might be a hindrance, his preference for UK based players might be another, still lacking credentials in larger footballing world. Just because we love because he's "one of our own" and the way he dragged us up from league 1, and we like the way he "tells it like it is" doesn't suit everybody and as stated - above maybe a "failing Prem' club would take a chance on him - but would he want to move away from Sheffield now that he has settled back into it ? he might be thinking "better to take a chance on us that some trigger happy club somewhere else who knows ? maybe we will find out in the summer!
 
Lawrence said:
Bering In mind that the summer window will basically mean the players we have at the start of play will be ‘what we are stuck with for the season!’
Click to expand...

Yep no time to assess if players are good enough once the season has ie Hussey last season as we won't be able to make any changes until January.

Getting our summer recruitment right will be more key than ever this summer. Just look how much Coutts injury affected us before we were able to brimg Evans in.
 
Worth noting that Blackwell was sacked followin an 8th place finish, 5 points off the play offs. I think we were in with a shout of 6th until the final (or second-last) game. The following season we dropped down to L1.
 
So, erm...what's...what's going on?

giphy.gif
 
Occurred yesterday that there is absolutely no way the ownership can be sorted out until the close season; or until we mathematically get into to Play Offs, as the value of the club is going to be vastly different dependent on what division we are in next season.
 
Dkc said:
Worth noting that Blackwell was sacked followin an 8th place finish, 5 points off the play offs. I think we were in with a shout of 6th until the final (or second-last) game. The following season we dropped down to L1.
Click to expand...


While Blackwell was manager our wage budget was: season 1 £23.5m. Season 2 £17.5m
 

Liaminho9 said:
Yet many people on here are still claiming "we have to get it sorted before the end of the season"
Click to expand...

It would be best if it were sorted asap. Gives Wilder more time to plan knowing the budget he has.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

JayGreen17
VAR SUBS AND WILDER OUT
Replies
0
Views
431
JayGreen17
JayGreen17
loyalblade95
Next youth player/s to break into squad next season?
2
Replies
53
Views
5K
Tony_Kaufman
Tony_Kaufman
BiggerBladeThanThou
The New Ownership
2 3 4
Replies
95
Views
6K
Balham
Balham
2
No single match pass on SUTV?
Replies
28
Views
1K
goatherder
goatherder
C
New chant - not sure if this completely ridiculous or actually brilliant
2
Replies
34
Views
2K
Tommy_P
Tommy_P

All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?

All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?

Back
Top Bottom