Our recruit team/department

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Yewsman

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Who are they or him? What are they doing? We''ve just played Cardiff and Bolton who probably have smaller wage bills than ours. Both teams played us off the park in the second half. Looked fitter, younger, had more pace but no "stars" or ex-EPL players as far as I know. I would be prepared to bet there will be a lot of teams who will do the same this season. Where do they get their players from? I don't think either have academies as succesful as ours on paper.

Barnsley seem to discover players like Carlton Morris or the kid we were rumoured to have put a bid in for who scored a lot of goals in L1 last year.

Even the Wendies who have had to assemble a team from nowhere this season and seem to be doing well so far even thought it is L1.

I know we don't have much money but look at our recruitment. Great recruitment of Donovan (on loan) but then we've been chasing our old loanees or oldies like Souttar, Phillips, Doughty, Choudrey, Rothwell and free agents we got from last season Bamford and Jairo, Rothwell and so on. Last season our recruitment in the transfer window was a disaster and then we paid 10 mill for Cannon (probably Wilders fault!). Compared to other Champ clubs our recruitment has been woeful in terms of recruiting players and results. Coventry last season with no parachute payments. Good player recruitment is key to a successful club in all divisions and ours has been poor for years. Who is responsible and what do they do?
 



in the interest of balance we have spent JUST €267.50m over the last 10 season. Only €119.20m over the last 5. So lets give them a break...
 
Yewsman said:
Who are they or him? What are they doing? We''ve just played Cardiff and Bolton who probably have smaller wage bills than ours. Both teams played us off the park in the second half. Looked fitter, younger, had more pace but no "stars" or ex-EPL players as far as I know. I would be prepared to bet there will be a lot of teams who will do the same this season. Where do they get their players from? I don't think either have academies as succesful as ours on paper.

Barnsley seem to discover players like Carlton Morris or the kid we were rumoured to have put a bid in for who scored a lot of goals in L1 last year.

Even the Wendies who have had to assemble a team from nowhere this season and seem to be doing well so far even thought it is L1.

I know we don't have much money but look at our recruitment. Great recruitment of Donovan (on loan) but then we've been chasing our old loanees or oldies like Souttar, Phillips, Doughty, Choudrey, Rothwell and free agents we got from last season Bamford and Jairo, Rothwell and so on. Last season our recruitment in the transfer window was a disaster and then we paid 10 mill for Cannon (probably Wilders fault!). Compared to other Champ clubs our recruitment has been woeful in terms of recruiting players and results. Coventry last season with no parachute payments. Good player recruitment is key to a successful club in all divisions and ours has been poor for years. Who is responsible and what do they do?
Click to expand...
And a comparison of annual player salaries
Bolton. £8m
Cardiff. £17m
Sheffield united. £28m
 
Yewsman said:
Who are they or him? What are they doing? We''ve just played Cardiff and Bolton who probably have smaller wage bills than ours. Both teams played us off the park in the second half. Looked fitter, younger, had more pace but no "stars" or ex-EPL players as far as I know. I would be prepared to bet there will be a lot of teams who will do the same this season. Where do they get their players from? I don't think either have academies as succesful as ours on paper.

Barnsley seem to discover players like Carlton Morris or the kid we were rumoured to have put a bid in for who scored a lot of goals in L1 last year.

Even the Wendies who have had to assemble a team from nowhere this season and seem to be doing well so far even thought it is L1.

I know we don't have much money but look at our recruitment. Great recruitment of Donovan (on loan) but then we've been chasing our old loanees or oldies like Souttar, Phillips, Doughty, Choudrey, Rothwell and free agents we got from last season Bamford and Jairo, Rothwell and so on. Last season our recruitment in the transfer window was a disaster and then we paid 10 mill for Cannon (probably Wilders fault!). Compared to other Champ clubs our recruitment has been woeful in terms of recruiting players and results. Coventry last season with no parachute payments. Good player recruitment is key to a successful club in all divisions and ours has been poor for years. Who is responsible and what do they do?
Click to expand...
Until we see what this squad can achieve we cannot sensibly comment on the quality of the recruitment.
If on our budget we can be in the top 8 by Christmas then I would think the recruitment has been good. Then they have to add better in the JTW.
 
Bladedog said:
Ever since hoyland arrived it's been shite..someone on here listed all the shit that came and went when he was at Everton..it didn't make for good reading.
Click to expand...
Another fun fact about his time at everton, ever since he was promoted to head scout they went from finishing around 10th multiple times to been relegation fight until he left.

Now I know thats not just on him and hes a cog in there but its no coincidence that they were getting worse as a whole along with the players that were getting worse since he was there for them & seemingly got better since he left.


* I thought we needed to move in from Mitchell as league one was pretty much his limit albiet a couple of decent pick ups to re-enforce the group we already had in championship. He was well out if his depth in the prem and some of the player we recruited was poor standard (the supposedly bench warmers/depth players, that became 1st teamers) but he is streets ahead of Hoyland on current showing of our receuitment whilst hes been here and the players we ahve been linked with. At least PM could pick up a lower league player on cheap a diamond in the rough, all Hoyland has scouted is dog shit old pros that are passed it and cant even get a game in sunday league up in Scotland (rothwell).
 
Blademan89 said:
Another fun fact about his time at everton, ever since he was promoted to head scout they went from finishing around 10th multiple times to been relegation fight until he left.

Now I know thats not just on him and hes a cog in there but its no coincidence that they were getting worse as a whole along with the players that were getting worse since he was there for them & seemingly got better since he left.


* I thought we needed to move in from Mitchell as league one was pretty much his limit albiet a couple of decent pick ups to re-enforce the group we already had in championship. He was well out if his depth in the prem and some of the player we recruited was poor standard (the supposedly bench warmers/depth players, that became 1st teamers) but he is streets ahead of Hoyland on current showing of our receuitment whilst hes been here and the players we ahve been linked with. At least PM could pick up a lower league player on cheap a diamond in the rough, all Hoyland has scouted is dog shit old pros that are passed it and cant even get a game in sunday league up in Scotland (rothwell).
Click to expand...
Seems like jobs for the boys regardless of ability. Joke.
 
Blademan89 said:
Another fun fact about his time at everton, ever since he was promoted to head scout they went from finishing around 10th multiple times to been relegation fight until he left.
Click to expand...

Though the since he left, side of the coin.

"On Saturday Moyes said "I don't think we can afford to lose any players, we need to stay as strong as we can” - since then we have lost another five players (three of them who have left play in areas we needed to strengthen in) and only brought two in.

"To leave us with no back up full-backs and just one striker is full-on gross negligence, not forgetting we also lost one of our best players at an under valued price in today’s market in the process without replacing him too.

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

Everton fan group 'standing down' after being 'disgusted' by transfer window

Everton fans' group the 1878s have issued a statement saying they are standing down due to their disgust over the transfer window
www.liverpoolecho.co.uk www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

Or is it the board to blame and not JH ?
 
Problem with “we tried but FC” is that we don’t look beyond these shores enough. I’m not talking about an extensive network but even if we just kept a closer eye on one or two other countries.

Let’s take one country, Belgium for instance and even one club as a case in point. Sint Truidense. Not far to go and take in games. When we had a link with Beerschot I watched quite a few Bwlgiuk top flight games myself. Some players I kept an eye on, which I’ll come back to.

There was a lot of talk of Stoke having bidded for Cannon. We wanted 7 raising to 10. Maybe they offered 5 rising to 7 for example.

I’d have taken that. But I’d have also been happy to have BBD up top.

As has been mentioned, Riyotaro Ito was a 10 for Sint Truidense last season. 11 goal contributions in 27 matches. So rather than nothing, on a free he’s an option. Same age as Cal.

Then, baring in mind I’ve also got the Cannon money too now, it brings me to a player I’ve seen since he made his debut for Beerschot; Ilias Sebaoui.

Kept an eye on him. His main position? Left winger, Attacking midfield and central midfield. He’s be an excellent Hamer replacement. You’d have two players 24 and 28 replacing a 28 and a 30 year old.

Sebaoui went to Feyenoord, had a couple of Dutch loans and went for 1m last summer to Sint-Truiden. Transfermarkt has him rated at 3.5m. Probably get him for less but id I’ve got the Cannon money I could do this and have change.

You could play BBD alongside Bamford and have Donovan and Sebaoui as wide players. You’d still have Ito as an option too as a 10 option.

In the Belgium league this year he’s played 4, scored 1, assisted 3. In Europe he played 2, scored 2. Last season 5 goals and 6 assists in 42 games.

I wanted us to get him in when we lost Ndiaye as a player to develop.

I think he’d have been a good acquisition if we were more open on the recruitment and more willing as a club to lose a bit on Cannon who doesn’t fit.
 



Tom Bott said:
Presumably from last season when we had PL parachute payments, this year we are some £40 million down on income and have to cut our cloth to suit both that and the new financial regulations.
Click to expand...
This year's according to capology, although they do include the Philips and BBDs parent club salaries.
We're certainly paying eye watering wages to bang average players
 
bakeblade said:
This year's according to capology, although they do include the Philips and BBDs parent club salaries.
We're certainly paying eye watering wages to bang average players
Click to expand...

Anyone who thinks we are paying Calvin Phillips £8 million per year on wages is living on a different planet.
Though someone also suggested we are paying Hamza Choudhury £50,000 a week because the internet says that is what his contract with Leicester was when they signed him. Ergo we must be paying the same.

The internet attaches the word 'estimated' to these figures, the fans attach the words 'fact' and 'it's all on Wilder this' where the word that should be attached is 'nonsense'.
 
Bladedog said:
Ever since hoyland arrived it's been shite..someone on here listed all the shit that came and went when he was at Everton..it didn't make for good reading.
Click to expand...
Think that was me. His time at Everton coincides with some of their worst performances for a long time, lo and behold when he leaves they’ve done some excellent trading.

He wouldn’t be working in football, certainly not at this level, if he hadn’t played with wilder in the 90s and was from this area.

I had to laugh at the Kitching signing, I thought we’d turned a corner and identified a good pick up, then I found out he still lives in Barnsley and goes to the same golf courses as some of our staff. Couldn’t make it up.

We really shouldn’t be laying the blame at one person’s door though, because it won’t solve a problem. As much as I’m sick of going back to Wilder’s little black book of players it’s ridiculous that he’s put in a position where he has too. They’re all equally as culpable.

  • Bettis for refusing to develop the structure and bring more football people in (his only job in football still remains at Sheffield United).
  • Hoyland for doing nothing as far as anyone can tell.
  • Allen for the above. I don’t know what analytics we’re looking at but it’s clearly not football ones. Maybe it’s xGL (expected Good Lad).
  • Carl Schieber for continually getting us into shit states with player contracts, and seemingly not know how much players earn these days.
  • the whole medical team. Self explanatory really.

It all needs a massive clear out, and has done for a while. All have very little experience at championship clubs (or higher) outside of their time with Sheffield United and it’s what has held us back for years. Every team that’s gone past us has an experienced, dynamic, progressive team of football administrators and we operate like a pub team.

I’m really, really trying to cut wilder more slack these days because he’s having to front up for the incompetencies of the club, so I try to leave my criticism to what I see on the pitch.
 
ATL Recs said:
The first two came here on the back of D Taylor nowt to do with Jamiesrecruitment .com
Click to expand...

Hoyland joined us in May 2024 though, and Cooper and Souttar joined August 2024.

So I assumed, though always glad to be corrected.
 
KMC-1889 said:
Think that was me. His time at Everton coincides with some of their worst performances for a long time, lo and behold when he leaves they’ve done some excellent trading.

He wouldn’t be working in football, certainly not at this level, if he hadn’t played with wilder in the 90s and was from this area.

I had to laugh at the Kitching signing, I thought we’d turned a corner and identified a good pick up, then I found out he still lives in Barnsley and goes to the same golf courses as some of our staff. Couldn’t make it up.

We really shouldn’t be laying the blame at one person’s door though, because it won’t solve a problem. As much as I’m sick of going back to Wilder’s little black book of players it’s ridiculous that he’s put in a position where he has too. They’re all equally as culpable.

  • Bettis for refusing to develop the structure and bring more football people in (his only job in football still remains at Sheffield United).
  • Hoyland for doing nothing as far as anyone can tell.
  • Allen for the above. I don’t know what analytics we’re looking at but it’s clearly not football ones. Maybe it’s xGL (expected Good Lad).
  • Carl Schieber for continually getting us into shit states with player contracts, and seemingly not know how much players earn these days.
  • the whole medical team. Self explanatory really.

It all needs a massive clear out, and has done for a while. All have very little experience at championship clubs (or higher) outside of their time with Sheffield United and it’s what has held us back for years. Every team that’s gone past us has an experienced, dynamic, progressive team of football administrators and we operate like a pub team.

I’m really, really trying to cut wilder more slack these days because he’s having to front up for the incompetencies of the club, so I try to leave my criticism to what I see on the pitch.
Click to expand...
Interesting reading, the first thought that occurs to me is why we've been so reluctant to think outside the restrictive ways of doing things that we've always done things. More imagination, considering anything that could, I stress 'could', change our thinking enabling the club to improve and embrace ways of making Utd far less flaky in the way we've been managed.
 
Groucho Blade said:
One of the (many) things that’s been wrong with our recruitment (particularly in the PL) is that we’ve bought/signed far too many squad fillers over the years. And not enough players who would go on to improve the first team.
Click to expand...

Which is exactly what we've been doing this season as well. Far too many people both inside and outside of the club that are shit scared at the possibility of not having 2-3 Championship ready options at every single position instead of, if shit happens, just giving what we already have coming through at the club a chance
 
Who exactly decided the players in last summers transfer business - that was the horriffic window, this was bad for selling the best and not replacing at all; that was just plain insane. If any of the stake holders that were guilty of that horror show are still in any capacity at the club they shouldn't be.
 
coolasanidiot said:
Who exactly decided the players in last summers transfer business - that was the horriffic window, this was bad for selling the best and not replacing at all; that was just plain insane. If any of the stake holders that were guilty of that horror show are still in any capacity at the club they shouldn't be.
Click to expand...
But they are. Nobody has gone. They’re all still there. All the muppets who said yes sir no sir three bags full sir, whatever you say goes sir. More than mi jobs worth sir. Wilder knows he’s a patsy now if it wasn’t for his loyalty to SUFC he’d have fucked off. He knows he’s been shafted and they want him to walk so Knills replacement can take over.
 
Tom Bott said:
Though the since he left, side of the coin.

"On Saturday Moyes said "I don't think we can afford to lose any players, we need to stay as strong as we can” - since then we have lost another five players (three of them who have left play in areas we needed to strengthen in) and only brought two in.

"To leave us with no back up full-backs and just one striker is full-on gross negligence, not forgetting we also lost one of our best players at an under valued price in today’s market in the process without replacing him too.

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

Everton fan group 'standing down' after being 'disgusted' by transfer window

Everton fans' group the 1878s have issued a statement saying they are standing down due to their disgust over the transfer window
www.liverpoolecho.co.uk www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

Or is it the board to blame and not JH ?
Click to expand...
Americans eh !
 
Think our poor recruitment has been bailed out by the academy really

Peck
A Brooks
Seriki
Blaster
Illiman
D brooks
Etc

All contributing to either the first team or have gone one to be sold for decent money to fund.

There are very few players we’ve signed as diamonds in the rough whose value has actually grown. Why couldn’t we be a cov who had hamer, rudoni and gyokores for basically nothing or Boro with Morgan rogers etc? Why are Brighton , Brentford and Bournemouth a million miles better at it than we are?

It gets worse when you consider who we’ve spend money on, The ones where we’ve slashed our big money are also some of our biggest missed cannon, Brewster etc.

We are currently choosing to shop in a small (and more expensive pool) the enter structure is decades out of date. Seemingly run by people with no actual eye for talent.

We’ve spend money over the last year - imagine if we’d spending it on something similar to the scouting set up Brentford have. Must cost less then we spent on Cannon
 
People will come along soon and say it’s all too difficult for us to improve the recruitment… takes massive investment… needs a billionaire owner etc.

To that I’d say look at the summer 2024 window. We now know from court documents that Des Taylor was running our business as effectively the DoF. And it stands out as by miles our best transfer window for years before and after.*

That was all just by changing one man at the top. In the long term it’d be great to have a proper data driven team and international networks and we should aim for that. But just cos that’s expensive and takes time, doesn’t mean we can’t improve quickly just by getting a better person in as head of recruitment/ DoF. As others said, there’s loads of Coventry/Barnsley types that show you can be a lot more effective even on a budget like ours.

*Not just the buys, but the sales were really effective, somehow making a profit on our dross PL signings, and getting them out the door quickly to clubs we don’t usually sell to. I think it’s underrated but our lack of bandwidth and network hurts us when we’re selling too
 



Snowflake said:
Until we see what this squad can achieve we cannot sensibly comment on the quality of the recruitment.
If on our budget we can be in the top 8 by Christmas then I would think the recruitment has been good. Then they have to add better in the JTW.
Click to expand...
With our budget, even with the £35m drop in income, top 8 should be an expectation. We are still towards the top end.
 
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