Our midfield

[Kozzy_is_my_Dad]

Yesterday was a poor display. We were a patched up side in parts, and we looked unbalanced but that was mainly in the defence.

The midfield is, and remains our priority area for investment. As Tarqs said earlier in shoutbox - Imagine havjng 2 premier league seasons and coming out of them with exactly the same midfield with very little back up. We are relying on the same two CMs with very little depth and they aren't the players they were in 2018/19.

It's sad to see, especially for Fleck (and I'd add in Stevens too) as they are legends of the Wilder era, Fleck being my all-time favourite Wilder signing. But they aren't covering the grass with urgency, they aren't dominating possession, they aren't a nightmare to play against. They don't have the stamina or legs to be on the front foot and to keep the opposition on the back foot. Sadly, their race is run. The longer we persist with them as first choice, the sadder it is to see. Fleck and Stevens in particular remind me of when Gary Neville spoke of knowing his time was up at Man United: https://tinyurl.com/4thmsnyp

We desperately need new signings, new energy and new ideas in there. It has been our priority area for reinforcements and reinvestment for 2+ transfer windows now.

Sadly, I think Fleck's role as a starter is done. Being off the pace means that his tenacity, his driving runs, snapping into tackles, and being an absolute pest to play against is all missing. Without this, apart from being a tidy passer, he becomes very pedestrian. We then become passive, second to every ball, and the game passes us by. Norwood, I think you can continue to get more out of, simply because his assets: possession and ping remain. But my god do you need energy around him. Think of him like an ageing quarter back. Like Man U did with Rooney or LA Galaxy with Beckham.

The implication is a lacklustre midfield impacts everything else. It isolates the strikers, it cuts the supply line to Berge and N'Diaye in the number 10 roles, and it exposes the defence. Last night in particular, it exposed a patched up defence, against the best attack in the league IMO. Yes, we contained them to 1-0 but it wasn't comfortable or assured to watch. N'Diaye will track back and graft, but that takes him away from where he's most effective, and you end up with him grafting more, and more and further into CM. Berge, for all his qualities (and I'm a fan) isn't a leader, in that he tends to mirror the tempo of the game, rather than being the one to take it by the scruff of the neck and inspire others. Osborn isn't good enough in possession to start centrally, Doyle may be that man? Coulibaly might need to be used, as unready as he may be. Last night's combinations clearly weren't the answer, so something different is needed.

You'd think I'm arriving at a question to spark discussion. But I'm not. Bye.

 

[Ndiayewillalwaysloveyou]

Pointless having quality in Berge, Ndiaye, Khadra, McAtee, Brewster, Sharp, Jebbison and Osula if we have poor midfielders behind them.

And Berge can't play in a midfield 2/3 he's better further forward.

 

[Overthehills]

Albeit a short term loan, Tommy Doyle will tick a lot of boxes in terms of all round midfielder. He’s been developed in a classic box to box mould, akin in style to the likes of Stevie G and co. In terms of hassling and ankle biting, I hope that he brings plenty of that to the plate and in turn give the 10s a bit more confidence to push on.

My only concerns now would be height and physicality in the middle of the park.

In terms of fleck…. Whilst I hate to single out individual players, unfortunately he is now a weak link in the squad. This was evident last season and to be honest, I’m shocked that the club continue to invest as much time and confidence in him…..

 

[Edgar Allan Poo]

Put the kids in or the women or child brides. Bound to be an improvement.

 

[Espania blade]

Pointless having quality in Berge, Ndiaye, Khadra, McAtee, Brewster, Sharp, Jebbison and Osula if we have poor midfielders behind them.

And Berge can't play in a midfield 2/3 he's better further forward.

Berge played in every position last night, his performance probably went under the radar but he covered every blade of grass

 

[Shoes_On]

As it stands, we've got too many unknown quantities in all areas. Maybe Brewster will finally prove his worth, maybe the kids will step up, maybe the new signings will be amazing, maybe Khadra is the new MGW, maybe Berge won't leave, maybe Sharp will get 15 goals, etc. Fodders, Egan and Baldock are about the only ones you can say with any confidence that they're likely to have a decent season

 

[Kelso]

What midfield ?

 

[Keen Blade]

Our midfield is a feckin car crash.
Second to every loose ball.
Can't tackle a fish supper.
Can't carry the ball forward.
Can't make quick decisive passes.
Can't shoot.
Can't hit a decent set-piece ball.
Just shuffles about.
Fleck & Norwood are taking the piss whilst winding down their contracts.
With his physique & skill , Berge ought to be completely dominant but has no initiative to take the game by the scruff of the neck.
Stick with that midfield and we are abysmal to watch.
Get your scalpel out Hecky , it's time for surgery to save our blushes.

 

[knowsnowt]

All this and more in tonight's episode of Soap!

 

[robbiez666]

This is the problem with poor recruitment and planning.

Both Norwood and Fleck are out of contract this summer. Both will be on high wages, so we'd struggle to sell either.

Berge is also a central midfielder who was bought to replace Norwood but can't play that position in English football.

Osborn was brought in to cover Fleck and yet despite being given and extended contract has never shown he can play there.

Our recruitment this summer in this position has been a loan and it looks like we're looking at McAtee as well.

As things stand, at the start of the 23/24 season we'll have 1 senior CM on our books and it's likely we'll be selling him (Berge).

We've made 2 permanent signings this summer, when we needed at least 3 or 4.

Next season, we'll lose:

Sharp
McBurnie
Robinson
Osborn
Fleck
Norwood
Stevens

That's a heck of a lot of players to replace, regardless what you think of them.

There's no indication there will be any money to spend, unless we get promoted.

On the face of it, it looks like pretty terrible long-term planning and reminds me of how our neighbours operate.

 

[AnstonBlade1]

Yesterday was a poor display. We were a patched up side in parts, and we looked unbalanced but that was mainly in the defence.

The midfield is, and remains our priority area for investment. As Tarqs said earlier in shoutbox - Imagine havjng 2 premier league seasons and coming out of them with exactly the same midfield with very little back up. We are relying on the same two CMs with very little depth and they aren't the players they were in 2018/19.

It's sad to see, especially for Fleck (and I'd add in Stevens too) as they are legends of the Wilder era, Fleck being my all-time favourite Wilder signing. But they aren't covering the grass with urgency, they aren't dominating possession, they aren't a nightmare to play against. They don't have the stamina or legs to be on the front foot and to keep the opposition on the back foot. Sadly, their race is run. The longer we persist with them as first choice, the sadder it is to see. Fleck and Stevens in particular remind me of when Gary Neville spoke of knowing his time was up at Man United: https://tinyurl.com/4thmsnyp

We desperately need new signings, new energy and new ideas in there. It has been our priority area for reinforcements and reinvestment for 2+ transfer windows now.

Sadly, I think Fleck's role as a starter is done. Being off the pace means that his tenacity, his driving runs, snapping into tackles, and being an absolute pest to play against is all missing. Without this, apart from being a tidy passer, he becomes very pedestrian. We then become passive, second to every ball, and the game passes us by. Norwood, I think you can continue to get more out of, simply because his assets: possession and ping remain. But my god do you need energy around him. Think of him like an ageing quarter back. Like Man U did with Rooney or LA Galaxy with Beckham.

The implication is a lacklustre midfield impacts everything else. It isolates the strikers, it cuts the supply line to Berge and N'Diaye in the number 10 roles, and it exposes the defence. Last night in particular, it exposed a patched up defence, against the best attack in the league IMO. Yes, we contained them to 1-0 but it wasn't comfortable or assured to watch. N'Diaye will track back and graft, but that takes him away from where he's most effective, and you end up with him grafting more, and more and further into CM. Berge, for all his qualities (and I'm a fan) isn't a leader, in that he tends to mirror the tempo of the game, rather than being the one to take it by the scruff of the neck and inspire others. Osborn isn't good enough in possession to start centrally, Doyle may be that man? Coulibaly might need to be used, as unready as he may be. Last night's combinations clearly weren't the answer, so something different is needed.

You'd think I'm arriving at a question to spark discussion. But I'm not. Bye.

100% nail on head post.
It’s just worrying that no manger can seem to see this problem.

 

[3Cheers4Ramirez]

Should have signed 2 new CMs last summer, Rothwell being one of them, but there were many young upgrades within reach

Keep going like this with the loans, and we're desperately reliant on promotion. Don't manage that then at some point its likely to go pop

 

[Teddy]

This is the problem with poor recruitment and planning.

Both Norwood and Fleck are out of contract this summer. Both will be on high wages, so we'd struggle to sell either.

Berge is also a central midfielder who was bought to replace Norwood but can't play that position in English football.

Osborn was brought in to cover Fleck and yet despite being given and extended contract has never shown he can play there.

Our recruitment this summer in this position has been a loan and it looks like we're looking at McAtee as well.

As things stand, at the start of the 23/24 season we'll have 1 senior CM on our books and it's likely we'll be selling him (Berge).

We've made 2 permanent signings this summer, when we needed at least 3 or 4.

Next season, we'll lose:

Sharp
McBurnie
Robinson
Osborn
Fleck
Norwood
Stevens

That's a heck of a lot of players to replace, regardless what you think of them.

There's no indication there will be any money to spend, unless we get promoted.

On the face of it, it looks like pretty terrible long-term planning and reminds me of how our neighbours operate.

Just so readers can have a quick respite from all the misery.

We already have two good LWBs at this level so cheers for the good times Enda.

Coulibaly and Arblaster could be our deliverance (admittedly that’s an unknown but you’ve gotta believe real hard or it won’t happen).

The other way of looking at the above is that the players in your list are probably some of the biggest wages on the bill. So it might finally free us up to bring in some new CM talent which I admit we are crying out for.

 

[Champagneblade]

Our midfield is a feckin car crash.
Second to every loose ball.
Can't tackle a fish supper.
Can't carry the ball forward.
Can't make quick decisive passes.
Can't shoot.
Can't hit a decent set-piece ball.
Just shuffles about.
Fleck & Norwood are taking the piss whilst winding down their contracts.
With his physique & skill , Berge ought to be completely dominant but has no initiative to take the game by the scruff of the neck.
Stick with that midfield and we are abysmal to watch.
Get your scalpel out Hecky , it's time for surgery to save our blushes.

I thought that was a poem the way you formatted it!

 

[AnstonBlade1]

Should have signed 2 new CMs last summer, Rothwell being one of them, but there were many young upgrades within reach

Keep going like this with the loans, and we're desperately reliant on promotion. Don't manage that then at some point its likely to go pop

Are Fleck, Norwood and Stevens out of contract next summer?

 

[blades14]

Our attacking midfielders can’t operate how they want because in the back of their mind they will constantly worry about their defensive duties because Norwood can’t tackle. That’s why Jebbo/Brewster are so isolated because they have to track back

 

[Champagneblade]

Yesterday was a poor display. We were a patched up side in parts, and we looked unbalanced but that was mainly in the defence.

The midfield is, and remains our priority area for investment. As Tarqs said earlier in shoutbox - Imagine havjng 2 premier league seasons and coming out of them with exactly the same midfield with very little back up. We are relying on the same two CMs with very little depth and they aren't the players they were in 2018/19.

It's sad to see, especially for Fleck (and I'd add in Stevens too) as they are legends of the Wilder era, Fleck being my all-time favourite Wilder signing. But they aren't covering the grass with urgency, they aren't dominating possession, they aren't a nightmare to play against. They don't have the stamina or legs to be on the front foot and to keep the opposition on the back foot. Sadly, their race is run. The longer we persist with them as first choice, the sadder it is to see. Fleck and Stevens in particular remind me of when Gary Neville spoke of knowing his time was up at Man United: https://tinyurl.com/4thmsnyp

We desperately need new signings, new energy and new ideas in there. It has been our priority area for reinforcements and reinvestment for 2+ transfer windows now.

Sadly, I think Fleck's role as a starter is done. Being off the pace means that his tenacity, his driving runs, snapping into tackles, and being an absolute pest to play against is all missing. Without this, apart from being a tidy passer, he becomes very pedestrian. We then become passive, second to every ball, and the game passes us by. Norwood, I think you can continue to get more out of, simply because his assets: possession and ping remain. But my god do you need energy around him. Think of him like an ageing quarter back. Like Man U did with Rooney or LA Galaxy with Beckham.

The implication is a lacklustre midfield impacts everything else. It isolates the strikers, it cuts the supply line to Berge and N'Diaye in the number 10 roles, and it exposes the defence. Last night in particular, it exposed a patched up defence, against the best attack in the league IMO. Yes, we contained them to 1-0 but it wasn't comfortable or assured to watch. N'Diaye will track back and graft, but that takes him away from where he's most effective, and you end up with him grafting more, and more and further into CM. Berge, for all his qualities (and I'm a fan) isn't a leader, in that he tends to mirror the tempo of the game, rather than being the one to take it by the scruff of the neck and inspire others. Osborn isn't good enough in possession to start centrally, Doyle may be that man? Coulibaly might need to be used, as unready as he may be. Last night's combinations clearly weren't the answer, so something different is needed.

You'd think I'm arriving at a question to spark discussion. But I'm not. Bye.

You are right. If the team has no forward movement and ball progression from midfield it limits our approach and leaves the forwards too isolated.

It's easy to be influenced by recency bias; Fleck scored against Forest for example. He played a key role in Bogle's exquisite finish at Birmingham.

I don't know how the stats of Fleck now to Fleck 2 seasons back stack up but he doesn't appear to cover the same ground or get box to box as he once did. That sort of role is arguably a young man's game. Even the supremely fit Cristiano Ronaldo had to adapt his game as years advanced.

But I don't know how Fleck adapts because the team still needs that ground to be covered. Whether McAtee arrives and takes that role given he's a left footer or Coulibaly as he's more of an athlete, there has to be some realisation that Fleck isn't the player he was and as with Stevens hasn't been since the end of 19/20.

He needs to either be playing a deeper role or almost as a 10, operating in a smaller area of the pitch. But there are plenty of others we have to do the latter role and the former will be Norwood's.

As horrifying as this may see.m for some and him and Hecky, it might be better if he goes this window. Then the temptation of reverting to the old guard when a result goes wrong rather than embracing what is required won't be there.

He's had an amazing run but you can only go on reputation for so long. Better he drops a level and lives it up like Bannon with young players around him giving the legs.

 

[haich1889]

Our midfield is a feckin car crash.
Second to every loose ball.
Can't tackle a fish supper.
Can't carry the ball forward.
Can't make quick decisive passes.
Can't shoot.
Can't hit a decent set-piece ball.
Just shuffles about.
Fleck & Norwood are taking the piss whilst winding down their contracts.
With his physique & skill , Berge ought to be completely dominant but has no initiative to take the game by the scruff of the neck.
Stick with that midfield and we are abysmal to watch.
Get your scalpel out Hecky , it's time for surgery to save our blushes.

They look fabulous passing back 50 yards to Foderingham though.

 

[Ndiayewillalwaysloveyou]

Are Fleck, Norwood and Stevens out of contract next summer?

Yeah thank god

 

[Stanthemanfan]

All this and more in tonight's episode of Soap!

I used to fooookin love it
Remember benson?

 

[Espania blade]

This is the problem with poor recruitment and planning.

Both Norwood and Fleck are out of contract this summer. Both will be on high wages, so we'd struggle to sell either.

Berge is also a central midfielder who was bought to replace Norwood but can't play that position in English football.

Osborn was brought in to cover Fleck and yet despite being given and extended contract has never shown he can play there.

Our recruitment this summer in this position has been a loan and it looks like we're looking at McAtee as well.

As things stand, at the start of the 23/24 season we'll have 1 senior CM on our books and it's likely we'll be selling him (Berge).

We've made 2 permanent signings this summer, when we needed at least 3 or 4.

Next season, we'll lose:

Sharp
McBurnie
Robinson
Osborn
Fleck
Norwood
Stevens

That's a heck of a lot of players to replace, regardless what you think of them.

There's no indication there will be any money to spend, unless we get promoted.

On the face of it, it looks like pretty terrible long-term planning and reminds me of how our neighbours operate.

You are correct with this, but isn't it down to "Wilder" years (not blaming or singling out CW here), but giving extended contracts to players that would not be fit for purpose in the "grand vision of Premier league football" was the problem - this is not the "House of Commons" where you keep all your mates in a job even though they are useless - or soon will be! - whoever was behind that philosophy wants sacking - maybe he was?
Every club needs freshening up now and again, even the management (that's why many clubs change managers on a frequent basis),
Prime ministers do it by changing their cabinet, companies do it by making people redundant and few months later start recruiting again,
it's why (many) people get divorced, people need a change of scenery - it's a simple concept except for our football club!! - and that is why we are where we are folks!

 

[Nicesheffielder]

Our midfield is a feckin car crash.
Second to every loose ball.
Can't tackle a fish supper.
Can't carry the ball forward.
Can't make quick decisive passes.
Can't shoot.
Can't hit a decent set-piece ball.
Just shuffles about.
Fleck & Norwood are taking the piss whilst winding down their contracts.
With his physique & skill , Berge ought to be completely dominant but has no initiative to take the game by the scruff of the neck.
Stick with that midfield and we are abysmal to watch.
Get your scalpel out Hecky , it's time for surgery to save our blushes.

 

[Nicesheffielder]

Bang on the money sire have a like

 

[Kozzy_is_my_Dad]

What a difference a (few) day(s) make.

Now, we're looking at trying to find a best fit midfield/attack that could include:

Norwood as the elder statesman and quarterback, pinging to his heart's content
Doyle for energy
Khadra, McAtee, Berge, N'Diaye for creativity.

Creating a supply line for Sharp, Brewster, Jebbo and N'Diaye if played up top. The options are massively increased, and now it's over to management to find the best fit, or to have plans A to C.

That would bring energy, creativity, fluidity and flexibility. It doesn't answer the issues longer-term but it makes us more dynamic for now, hopefully.

Then, others - might benefit from this, if it brings front foot football.

 

[NE Blade]

What positions are Doyle, McAtee and Khadra being brought in for? It would be good if one of the local journos could ask Hecky

It seems his preferred formation is two 10s behind a single striker. We already have Ndiaye and Berge (our 2 best players) being deployed in the number 10 positions.

Where we continue to look weak, in every sense of the word, is centre mid. No strength, dynamism or ability to get around the pitch.

All 3 seem like fantastic signings but I'm not sure if any of them are being brought in to address what is quite obviously our biggest weakness?

 

[robbiez666]

What positions are Doyle, McAtee and Khadra being brought in for? It would be good if one of the local journos could ask Hecky

It seems his preferred formation is two 10s behind a single striker. We already have Ndiaye and Berge (our 2 best players) being deployed in the number 10 positions.

Where we continue to look weak, in every sense of the word, is centre mid. No strength, dynamism or ability to get around the pitch.

All 3 seem like fantastic signings but I'm not sure if any of them are being brought in to address what is quite obviously our biggest weakness?

This is my worry. Doyle adds a bit of that, but that's not his forte.

Presumably we'll not change formation given this is what we've trained on pre-season, so where are McAtee and Khadra playing?

Even if Berge goes, we'll presumably have Fleck, Norwood and Doyle as the midfield 3. If you replace Fleck with McAtee then who is tackling? From what I've seen of both Khadra and McAtee, the defensive aspects of a midfielder's game are not their strengths. Indeed, strength is not their strength.

But we still have Berge. so McAtee, Berge and Doyle? That's very little cover for the CBs.

 

[Ron_Justice]

Could Anel play the CDM enforcer role? Would solve a few problems

 

[Tongeincheek]

Hecky said no more signings now in the press conference.

I hope to Christ this means he’s getting Coulibaly and Arblaster up to speed, or if they end up playing together - Couliblaster

 

[Ndiayewillalwaysloveyou]

Hecky said no more signings now in the press conference.

I hope to Christ this means he’s getting Coulibaly and Arblaster up to speed, or if they end up playing together - Couliblaster

Surprises me, he wanted 7 and frees. We've not done both.

 

[BigBed]

"Our Midfield"- just got better!