Our centre back difficulties are absurdly deep rooted...

[Shadota]

With today's announcement of Nils Zatterstrom, combined with our awfully weak lineup of centre halves already at the club, I wanted to see how proactive (or not, as this post will highlight) we have been in the CB department. By which I mean, how many players have we recruited on a permanent transfer (not including loans as they are not a definitive long-term solution), either to be starting options, or backups, for the 2 or 3 CB positions we have used. I've gone back through the last 10 seasons, including the current season, meaning we go back to the 2016/17 season when Wilder first arrived. Since then, despite playing with 3 centre backs for much of that time (small spell under Slav, last season under Wilder was almost exclusively a back 4), Zatterstrom has become only our twelfth centre back to be signed on a permanent transfer since that final season in League One. But even more horrific, is the fact that he is only the third CB we have signed in six seasons. Below is the history of recruitment during that time:

2016/17: Jake Wright, James Wilson, Jack O'Connell
2017/18: Ben Heneghan, Richard Stearman
2018/19: Kean Bryan, John Egan
2019/20: Jack Robinson, Phil Jagielka
2020/21: None
2021/22: None
2022/23: Anel Ahmedhodzic
2023/24: Auston Trusty
2024/25: None
2025/26: Nils Zatterstrom

I should say at this point, that this should not be interpreted as me being dismissive of the loan system. We have had some incredible loanees across the above time period, and some of the success we have had over the past 10 years would likely not have happened had we not recruited players of the calibre of Dean Henderson, James McAtee or Tommy Doyle.

However, it is dishearterning that the club has glossed over the CB position so thoroughly, that we've only managed to sign 3 players for that position this decade. And when you consider that in the context of where we are now - dangerously lacking in quality in the CB department - the failure of the club to future-proof what is a critical position on the pitch, is utterly shameful. The fact that we are scrambling to get defenders in the door now, with barely a week of the transfer window left, highlights some critical failures having occurred within the operations of the club. I remain hopeful that more signings will occur before the window closes, but we really shouldn't be in such a perilous position, when it's been obvious to everybody for multiple years that that is where we've been the weakest.

 

[Brian Deane]

With today's announcement of Nils Zatterstrom, combined with our awfully weak lineup of centre halves already at the club, I wanted to see how proactive (or not, as this post will highlight) we have been in the CB department. By which I mean, how many players have we recruited on a permanent transfer (not including loans as they are not a definitive long-term solution), either to be starting options, or backups, for the 2 or 3 CB positions we have used. I've gone back through the last 10 seasons, including the current season, meaning we go back to the 2016/17 season when Wilder first arrived. Since then, despite playing with 3 centre backs for much of that time (small spell under Slav, last season under Wilder was almost exclusively a back 4), Zatterstrom has become only our twelfth centre back to be signed on a permanent transfer since that final season in League One. But even more horrific, is the fact that he is only the third CB we have signed in six seasons. Below is the history of recruitment during that time:

2016/17: Jake Wright, James Wilson, Jack O'Connell
2017/18: Ben Heneghan, Richard Stearman
2018/19: Kean Bryan, John Egan
2019/20: Jack Robinson, Phil Jagielka
2020/21: None
2021/22: None
2022/23: Anel Ahmedhodzic
2023/24: Auston Trusty
2024/25: None
2025/26: Nils Zatterstrom

I should say at this point, that this should not be interpreted as me being dismissive of the loan system. We have had some incredible loanees across the above time period, and some of the success we have had over the past 10 years would likely not have happened had we not recruited players of the calibre of Dean Henderson, James McAtee or Tommy Doyle.

However, it is dishearterning that the club has glossed over the CB position so thoroughly, that we've only managed to sign 3 players for that position this decade. And when you consider that in the context of where we are now - dangerously lacking in quality in the CB department - the failure of the club to future-proof what is a critical position on the pitch, is utterly shameful. The fact that we are scrambling to get defenders in the door now, with barely a week of the transfer window left, highlights some critical failures having occurred within the operations of the club. I remain hopeful that more signings will occur before the window closes, but we really shouldn't be in such a perilous position, when it's been obvious to everybody for multiple years that that is where we've been the weakest.

I still find it unbelievable that O'Connell never got replaced. Spunking money elsewhere was fucking scandalous

 

[Pintor75]

With today's announcement of Nils Zatterstrom, combined with our awfully weak lineup of centre halves already at the club, I wanted to see how proactive (or not, as this post will highlight) we have been in the CB department. By which I mean, how many players have we recruited on a permanent transfer (not including loans as they are not a definitive long-term solution), either to be starting options, or backups, for the 2 or 3 CB positions we have used. I've gone back through the last 10 seasons, including the current season, meaning we go back to the 2016/17 season when Wilder first arrived. Since then, despite playing with 3 centre backs for much of that time (small spell under Slav, last season under Wilder was almost exclusively a back 4), Zatterstrom has become only our twelfth centre back to be signed on a permanent transfer since that final season in League One. But even more horrific, is the fact that he is only the third CB we have signed in six seasons. Below is the history of recruitment during that time:

2016/17: Jake Wright, James Wilson, Jack O'Connell
2017/18: Ben Heneghan, Richard Stearman
2018/19: Kean Bryan, John Egan
2019/20: Jack Robinson, Phil Jagielka
2020/21: None
2021/22: None
2022/23: Anel Ahmedhodzic
2023/24: Auston Trusty
2024/25: None
2025/26: Nils Zatterstrom

I should say at this point, that this should not be interpreted as me being dismissive of the loan system. We have had some incredible loanees across the above time period, and some of the success we have had over the past 10 years would likely not have happened had we not recruited players of the calibre of Dean Henderson, James McAtee or Tommy Doyle.

However, it is dishearterning that the club has glossed over the CB position so thoroughly, that we've only managed to sign 3 players for that position this decade. And when you consider that in the context of where we are now - dangerously lacking in quality in the CB department - the failure of the club to future-proof what is a critical position on the pitch, is utterly shameful. The fact that we are scrambling to get defenders in the door now, with barely a week of the transfer window left, highlights some critical failures having occurred within the operations of the club. I remain hopeful that more signings will occur before the window closes, but we really shouldn't be in such a perilous position, when it's been obvious to everybody for multiple years that that is where we've been the weakest.

Holgate was a expensive disaster too

 

[Shadota]

Holgate was a expensive disaster too

Yep. I opted not to delve to deeply into the transfers we've made whilst not signing CBs, as it would have heavily extended my post. But Holgate is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to funds wasted.

 

[Jon B]

Unfortunately, pretty much every transfer is a gamble. And these days a very expensive gamble.

 

[redandwhitewizard]

Unless I'm missing something we still only have one decent CB (Godfrey) after todays double. The Swedish lad sounds more like one for the future.

 

[UddersBlade]

With today's announcement of Nils Zatterstrom, combined with our awfully weak lineup of centre halves already at the club, I wanted to see how proactive (or not, as this post will highlight) we have been in the CB department. By which I mean, how many players have we recruited on a permanent transfer (not including loans as they are not a definitive long-term solution), either to be starting options, or backups, for the 2 or 3 CB positions we have used. I've gone back through the last 10 seasons, including the current season, meaning we go back to the 2016/17 season when Wilder first arrived. Since then, despite playing with 3 centre backs for much of that time (small spell under Slav, last season under Wilder was almost exclusively a back 4), Zatterstrom has become only our twelfth centre back to be signed on a permanent transfer since that final season in League One. But even more horrific, is the fact that he is only the third CB we have signed in six seasons. Below is the history of recruitment during that time:

2016/17: Jake Wright, James Wilson, Jack O'Connell
2017/18: Ben Heneghan, Richard Stearman
2018/19: Kean Bryan, John Egan
2019/20: Jack Robinson, Phil Jagielka
2020/21: None
2021/22: None
2022/23: Anel Ahmedhodzic
2023/24: Auston Trusty
2024/25: None
2025/26: Nils Zatterstrom

I should say at this point, that this should not be interpreted as me being dismissive of the loan system. We have had some incredible loanees across the above time period, and some of the success we have had over the past 10 years would likely not have happened had we not recruited players of the calibre of Dean Henderson, James McAtee or Tommy Doyle.

However, it is dishearterning that the club has glossed over the CB position so thoroughly, that we've only managed to sign 3 players for that position this decade. And when you consider that in the context of where we are now - dangerously lacking in quality in the CB department - the failure of the club to future-proof what is a critical position on the pitch, is utterly shameful. The fact that we are scrambling to get defenders in the door now, with barely a week of the transfer window left, highlights some critical failures having occurred within the operations of the club. I remain hopeful that more signings will occur before the window closes, but we really shouldn't be in such a perilous position, when it's been obvious to everybody for multiple years that that is where we've been the weakest.

Great post. Fantastic. Simply negligent behaviour by a series of owners & managers.

 

[Lord Eddard Muir]

Unless I'm missing something we still only have one decent CB (Godfrey) after todays double. The Swedish lad sounds more like one for the future.

And Godfrey's preferred position is RB isn't it?

 

[SwissBlade]

Unless I'm missing something we still only have one decent CB (Godfrey) after todays double. The Swedish lad sounds more like one for the future.

Thats how i see it, the reviews seem to suggest he'll need time and dig further, he's lacking physicality (His height isn't his physicality). I think to start with Bindon and this lad would be a gamble with neither having any experience at this level, so, loanee Godfrey and Robbo offer the only experience and lets hope we dont lost Robbo this window.

Zatterstrom may well turn out to be a nice bit of candy, but he could also need a while to settle in and get used to the physicality of strikers in this league.

 

[Snowflake]

With today's announcement of Nils Zatterstrom, combined with our awfully weak lineup of centre halves already at the club, I wanted to see how proactive (or not, as this post will highlight) we have been in the CB department. By which I mean, how many players have we recruited on a permanent transfer (not including loans as they are not a definitive long-term solution), either to be starting options, or backups, for the 2 or 3 CB positions we have used. I've gone back through the last 10 seasons, including the current season, meaning we go back to the 2016/17 season when Wilder first arrived. Since then, despite playing with 3 centre backs for much of that time (small spell under Slav, last season under Wilder was almost exclusively a back 4), Zatterstrom has become only our twelfth centre back to be signed on a permanent transfer since that final season in League One. But even more horrific, is the fact that he is only the third CB we have signed in six seasons. Below is the history of recruitment during that time:

2016/17: Jake Wright, James Wilson, Jack O'Connell
2017/18: Ben Heneghan, Richard Stearman
2018/19: Kean Bryan, John Egan
2019/20: Jack Robinson, Phil Jagielka
2020/21: None
2021/22: None
2022/23: Anel Ahmedhodzic
2023/24: Auston Trusty
2024/25: None
2025/26: Nils Zatterstrom

I should say at this point, that this should not be interpreted as me being dismissive of the loan system. We have had some incredible loanees across the above time period, and some of the success we have had over the past 10 years would likely not have happened had we not recruited players of the calibre of Dean Henderson, James McAtee or Tommy Doyle.

However, it is dishearterning that the club has glossed over the CB position so thoroughly, that we've only managed to sign 3 players for that position this decade. And when you consider that in the context of where we are now - dangerously lacking in quality in the CB department - the failure of the club to future-proof what is a critical position on the pitch, is utterly shameful. The fact that we are scrambling to get defenders in the door now, with barely a week of the transfer window left, highlights some critical failures having occurred within the operations of the club. I remain hopeful that more signings will occur before the window closes, but we really shouldn't be in such a perilous position, when it's been obvious to everybody for multiple years that that is where we've been the weakest.

I understand all that, but apart from stating what we already know, what is the point you are making and what can we now do about the past ?

 

[Keen Blade]

If Ben Mee is given a contract , that makes

Mee
Nils
Godfrey
Bindon
Robbo

I'm not counting Stanislaus ,

So stiil not enough to release Robbo to Wrexham ?

The big question is

Will we actually manage to recruit a CB who combines physical dominance with team leadership a la Souttar ?

And then get shut of Robbo.

Who should have followed Wilder out of the door.

 

[54yrblade]

The one that absolutely stands out was not doing what was needed after we lost JOC when he was growing in stature and towards an international call up. He was imperious in our drive from League One and, for me, the stand out player in that team.

However, he was just one in a long line of players that we utterly failed to plan for the loss of, both in terms of medium term and long term succession, whilst we seemingly handed out contracts to players who didn't deserve them and should have been moved on. We're still in the legacy period of that now, although things are now moving forward.

Behind all the noise, we were ridiculously short sighted in recruitment, some very odd decisions were made while we seemingly missed the huge decisions that looked obvious, from the stands. Not replacing JOC when needed was the biggest own goal of the previous regime.

It was hard to understand from a manager who was a former defender too.

 

[100% part time blade]

Sometimes signing a permanent isn’t all that great. It would have been a disaster to have paid a big upfront fee and signed Souttar on a permanent. It would also have been disastrous to have paid even more money to put Holgate on a 3 or 4 year deal.
What strikes me is across the rest of the pitch, we’ve seen progression from the academy in that time: Jebbison, Osula, One, Brooks, Peck, Slater, Arblaster, Seriki, Amissah. I can’t recall any centre-backs coming through though really.

 

[Keen Blade]

Is Tanganga still a prospect I wonder

 

[DronnieBlade]

It’s a bit distorted given that we had Bash Egan and JOC almost ever present for quite a time.

UTB

 

[Aston max]

If Ben Mee is given a contract , that makes

Mee
Nils
Godfrey
Bindon
Robbo

I'm not counting Stanislaus ,

So stiil not enough to release Robbo to Wrexham ?

The big question is

Will we actually manage to recruit a CB who combines physical dominance with team leadership a la Souttar ?

And then get shut of Robbo.

Who should have followed Wilder out of the door.

I'm 68 and could probably do a better job than robbo FFS ! . they need to get tanganga over the line and let robbo go ( I get the feeling Wrexham won't be interested after the doyle signing) .

 

[bornablade]

The 39 goals conceded in 38 Premier league season for a newly promoted club will probably not be beaten.

The defence (although not together as long) of Hendo, George, Bash, Egan, JOC and Enda is up there with the Hodgy Coldwell, G Shaw, Richardson, J. Shaw and Summers of the early 1960's.

If my memory serves me right we bought JLT almost in response to JOC's injury. The only similarity was they were both left footed. JLT couldn't do the overlapping stuff and was not as effective defensively.

That defence all knew their roles. To lose one as we did was like removing an important part from a car engine and expect it to function normally.

COVID didn't help but the loss of JOC was far more instrumental to where we find ourselves today.

 

[Dan Emery]

Sometimes signing a permanent isn’t all that great. It would have been a disaster to have paid a big upfront fee and signed Souttar on a permanent. It would also have been disastrous to have paid even more money to put Holgate on a 3 or 4 year deal.
What strikes me is across the rest of the pitch, we’ve seen progression from the academy in that time: Jebbison, Osula, One, Brooks, Peck, Slater, Arblaster, Seriki, Amissah. I can’t recall any centre-backs coming through though really.

I'll caveat what I'm about to say with e fact that other clubs manage it (otherwise there would be no centre halves playing the game) however, at our level it must be the most difficult position (alongside goalkeeper) for a youngster to nail down. How many 18/19/20/21 year olds have the stature, nous and skills to step in and do that job. It's a position that you can't hide in.

The last we had was Maguire and he tbh was an anomaly. He was big, strong, deceptively quick across the ground, fearless, could tackle, pass and carry the ball. If a player in our academy had shown those signs these days then he'd probably have been snapped up by Man City to sit in their reserves and be sold overseas without ever making a first team appearance.

 

[100% part time blade]

I'll caveat what I'm about to say with e fact that other clubs manage it (otherwise there would be no centre halves playing the game) however, at our level it must be the most difficult position (alongside goalkeeper) for a youngster to nail down. How many 18/19/20/21 year olds have the stature, nous and skills to step in and do that job. It's a position that you can't hide in.

The last we had was Maguire and he tbh was an anomaly. He was big, strong, deceptively quick across the ground, fearless, could tackle, pass and carry the ball. If a player in our academy had shown those signs these days then he'd probably have been snapped up by Man City to sit in their reserves and be sold overseas without ever making a first team appearance.

I agree - it’s a really tough position for a youngster, particularly if they’ve not yet got the most physically dominant frame. I think Maguire playing in league one had a great path because he could make mistakes (and he made a fair few) and not get as severely punished for them as would happen in a higher division.
That said his worst mistake was getting beaten and dragging his attacker back really obviously to get sent off, in the same game Lowton got sent off, which was pretty heavily punished as in my view that game was the catalyst for us both getting promoted. Interestingly I think we were so low on centre-backs we loaned Egan from Sunderland on an emergency one-month loan after that game.

 

[FriethBlade]

I understand all that, but apart from stating what we already know, what is the point you are making and what can we now do about the past ?

Hes discussing a legitimate topic, its what forums are for?

And what we can do about it is learn from the past and sign someone like Tanganga or Hughes who can be the bedrock of the defence. Then we dont go through the same "give em all back at the end of the season and find more CB loans next season." Already 2 of our CB additions, Bindon and Godfrey are loans so let's get a proper permanent one in (and I m not talking a Swedish kid who is one for the future)

 

[Torrix1889]

Unless I'm missing something we still only have one decent CB (Godfrey) after todays double. The Swedish lad sounds more like one for the future.

Although he has been capped at senior level...

 

[Blademan89]

To be fair to the club, trusty was a left sided young CB that we thought would do the job at a smallish amount.

He came from of the back of a loan to Birmingham? With decent stats and seemed to dominate both boxes and looked comfortable on the ball.

That was opposite to the player we saw & signed.

& we all know robbo was only suppose to be back up / bench fodder.

 

[Servigliano]

With today's announcement of Nils Zatterstrom, combined with our awfully weak lineup of centre halves already at the club, I wanted to see how proactive (or not, as this post will highlight) we have been in the CB department. By which I mean, how many players have we recruited on a permanent transfer (not including loans as they are not a definitive long-term solution), either to be starting options, or backups, for the 2 or 3 CB positions we have used. I've gone back through the last 10 seasons, including the current season, meaning we go back to the 2016/17 season when Wilder first arrived. Since then, despite playing with 3 centre backs for much of that time (small spell under Slav, last season under Wilder was almost exclusively a back 4), Zatterstrom has become only our twelfth centre back to be signed on a permanent transfer since that final season in League One. But even more horrific, is the fact that he is only the third CB we have signed in six seasons. Below is the history of recruitment during that time:

2016/17: Jake Wright, James Wilson, Jack O'Connell
2017/18: Ben Heneghan, Richard Stearman
2018/19: Kean Bryan, John Egan
2019/20: Jack Robinson, Phil Jagielka
2020/21: None
2021/22: None
2022/23: Anel Ahmedhodzic
2023/24: Auston Trusty
2024/25: None
2025/26: Nils Zatterstrom

I should say at this point, that this should not be interpreted as me being dismissive of the loan system. We have had some incredible loanees across the above time period, and some of the success we have had over the past 10 years would likely not have happened had we not recruited players of the calibre of Dean Henderson, James McAtee or Tommy Doyle.

However, it is dishearterning that the club has glossed over the CB position so thoroughly, that we've only managed to sign 3 players for that position this decade. And when you consider that in the context of where we are now - dangerously lacking in quality in the CB department - the failure of the club to future-proof what is a critical position on the pitch, is utterly shameful. The fact that we are scrambling to get defenders in the door now, with barely a week of the transfer window left, highlights some critical failures having occurred within the operations of the club. I remain hopeful that more signings will occur before the window closes, but we really shouldn't be in such a perilous position, when it's been obvious to everybody for multiple years that that is where we've been the weakest.

You build a team on a strong spine.
Courtesy of Wilder we had Cooper, Souta, Souza (Hecky) and Moore. And before that - O'Connell (Wilder) Egan (Wilder) and Bash ( Clough I think?)
Alao the genius wild card Hamer (Hecky)
Now we've got Cooper and Hamer - always assuming he stays...
Hopefully

 

[mattbianco1]

With today's announcement of Nils Zatterstrom, combined with our awfully weak lineup of centre halves already at the club, I wanted to see how proactive (or not, as this post will highlight) we have been in the CB department. By which I mean, how many players have we recruited on a permanent transfer (not including loans as they are not a definitive long-term solution), either to be starting options, or backups, for the 2 or 3 CB positions we have used. I've gone back through the last 10 seasons, including the current season, meaning we go back to the 2016/17 season when Wilder first arrived. Since then, despite playing with 3 centre backs for much of that time (small spell under Slav, last season under Wilder was almost exclusively a back 4), Zatterstrom has become only our twelfth centre back to be signed on a permanent transfer since that final season in League One. But even more horrific, is the fact that he is only the third CB we have signed in six seasons. Below is the history of recruitment during that time:

2016/17: Jake Wright, James Wilson, Jack O'Connell
2017/18: Ben Heneghan, Richard Stearman
2018/19: Kean Bryan, John Egan
2019/20: Jack Robinson, Phil Jagielka
2020/21: None
2021/22: None
2022/23: Anel Ahmedhodzic
2023/24: Auston Trusty
2024/25: None
2025/26: Nils Zatterstrom

I should say at this point, that this should not be interpreted as me being dismissive of the loan system. We have had some incredible loanees across the above time period, and some of the success we have had over the past 10 years would likely not have happened had we not recruited players of the calibre of Dean Henderson, James McAtee or Tommy Doyle.

However, it is dishearterning that the club has glossed over the CB position so thoroughly, that we've only managed to sign 3 players for that position this decade. And when you consider that in the context of where we are now - dangerously lacking in quality in the CB department - the failure of the club to future-proof what is a critical position on the pitch, is utterly shameful. The fact that we are scrambling to get defenders in the door now, with barely a week of the transfer window left, highlights some critical failures having occurred within the operations of the club. I remain hopeful that more signings will occur before the window closes, but we really shouldn't be in such a perilous position, when it's been obvious to everybody for multiple years that that is where we've been the weakest.

The first 4 seasons listed we had a very settled back 3 and very few injuries throughout the squad.

16/17 = Bash - Wright - JOC
17/18 = Bash - Stears - JOC
18/19 = Bash - Egan - JOC
19/20 = Bash - Egan - JOC

20/21 - JOC got injured and he's arguably still never been replaced

 

[Bladesman]

I still find it unbelievable that O'Connell never got replaced. Spunking money elsewhere was fucking scandalous

A blind spot from Wilder. Every man and their dog could see the big hole left by JOC but for some reason Wilder didn't take the loss seriously and giving chances to the wrong players to fill that void.

With hindsight maybe the moment we lost JOC was the time for Wilder to change formation totally and change the tactics. Instead of throwing players in who were nothing like as a good as JOC.

 

[Snowflake]

Hes discussing a legitimate topic, its what forums are for?

And what we can do about it is learn from the past and sign someone like Tanganga or Hughes who can be the bedrock of the defence. Then we dont go through the same "give em all back at the end of the season and find more CB loans next season." Already 2 of our CB additions, Bindon and Godfrey are loans so let's get a proper permanent one in (and I m not talking a Swedish kid who is one for the future)

There appeared to be no discussion. I was asking for the point he was wishing to make.
The current owners must be aware of the deficiencies, but cannot be held responsible for what happened in the past.
I am all for discussion and differing views, but there appeared to be no view, unlike your post which clearly identified a current and potentially future problem.

 

[Old Programme seller]

JOC was more than a great player he was a leader we had a similar scenario when Morgs got seriously injured

 

[Shadota]

I understand all that, but apart from stating what we already know, what is the point you are making and what can we now do about the past ?

The point I'm making, I thought was pretty obvious. But apparently you need it spelling out.

Putting today's signings to one side for a moment. The options available for the CB position are dreadfully lacking, and a primary contributor to that is the regular failure to recruit players who either are/were better than our existing options, or were able to provide definitive competition to our first choice players.

What can we do now about the past? Nothing. It's the past. I'm highlighting an issue that has persisted in some shape or form for most of the past decade, through the tenure of multiple managers.

I noticed something that I felt was an interesting topic to promote discussion. But I'll keep your view in mind - next time I'll put a presentation together that we can show to the board.

 

[Kozzy_is_my_Dad]

Fantastic post, very valid points very well made.

You could write an almost like-for-like post for central midfield up until more recently, when we relied on Norwood, Fleck, Osborn and others for far too long, after their best had passed.

 

[I should coco]

A blind spot from Wilder. Every man and their dog could see the big hole left by JOC but for some reason Wilder didn't take the loss seriously and giving chances to the wrong players to fill that void.

It happened mid-Covid, outside of a transfer window. I;m not sure how CW was supposed to instantly replace him. Still, it's another chance to rewrite the past.

Finishing 9th = good
Wilder = bad