Our academy

All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?

shorehamview

Pink Sambuca drinking World Champion.
Joined
Jul 18, 2006
Messages
18,952
Reaction score
28,669
Location
Sunny Woodseats.
This, on the "Ikeme injured" thread got me thinking.

What I can never understand is why none of our managers for the past 20-odd years has thought fit to develop a goalkeeper from the juniors and reserves....

We seem to have fared better than most clubs in that we have had several academy players come through, either ones that have been nurtured solely by us, or kids from elsewhere. The likes of the two Kyles, and Jags, Tonge and Monty spring to mind.

It's been asked why managers haven't thought fit to develop a goalkeeper. Jamie Annerson was indeed a promising young keeper, but regardless of position most managers won't really care about the academy kids, because the average period at one club for a league manage isn't very long - the average tenure of a Premier League manager is a year and a half - why would a short-term employee care about the long term development of the club and players?

Most managers want the funds to buy players now. In a results-led business they can't really worry about players that might be good enough in a few years. With the possible exception of Alex Ferguson and Dario Gradi how many club managers have more than a passing interest in youth team players?

With few exceptions any promising youngsters spotted by a manager will still be coming through the development stages when the manager either (a) gets sacked, (b) retires or (c) departs for pastures new. The work of most academies generally has little impact on the first team. How many kids go through academies every season? And how many get first team football at the club they started with?

Of our academy produces players like the Kyles or Jags, that can play for our first team then is that all it needs to do? One or two youngsters every year or so? Perhaps it is also useful as a production line of players that can be sold on at an operating profit, players that might not be good enough for us, but ones that other teams will pay for and will make a bigger transfer fee than their development cost.

After all, there's no guarantee that outstanding players, who have spent over ten years in development, won't skedaddle for a "big club" as soon as they have a few games for us under their belt. They, like Naughton did, may well have spent over ten years with the club as a kid, but just like Kyle they will want to play at the highest level - the Premier League - for all the fame, glory and indeed massive wages that it brings. And who can blame them? If they spend half their childhood training to be a professional then surely they deserve the best deal they can get?
 

Am I the only one who believes the club also has a responsibility to the local community?

That side of thing never seems to be raised in these 'academy' threads.
 
Am I the only one who believes the club also has a responsibility to the local community?

That side of thing never seems to be raised in these 'academy' threads.

The club has a Football In The Community Officer - one Tony Currie. The community work and the academy aren't directly linked, in that TC's work isn't the development of players - it's the whole "community" bit. I get what you mean - perhaps the academy shouldn't be just about developing players, but the community side is totally separate from the developing potential first team players bit. The community and academy sides have almost nothing to do with each other, in the way United runs them.
 
Am I the only one who believes the club also has a responsibility to the local community?

That side of thing never seems to be raised in these 'academy' threads.

Does it need raising?

a) I'm not sure how much relevance it has,

and

b) ours seems to do a fair old amount of work with FURD and wotnot.
 
I think the club has a responsibility to help develop local talent and provide facilities for local kids, whether they make a return on it a not.

That wasn't a criticism, If you say we do plenty, I'll take your word for it.
 
I think the club has a responsibility to help develop local talent and provide facilities for local kids, whether they make a return on it a not.

That wasn't a criticism, If you say we do plenty, I'll take your word for it.

I wasn't taking it as a criticism, far from it, it's just that they run the academy as a separate thing to the community work. I do agree with you that perhaps they have a responsibility to the community in general, but I think that's handled by the community side. They might unearth the next gem through the community work, but I would imagine that if they did they'd put the kid in touch with the academy. I'd certainly hope so anyway.
 
This, on the "Ikeme injured" thread got me thinking.



We seem to have fared better than most clubs in that we have had several academy players come through, either ones that have been nurtured solely by us, or kids from elsewhere. The likes of the two Kyles, and Jags, Tonge and Monty spring to mind.

?

jags tonge and monty were NOT from the academy
 
jags tonge and monty were NOT from the academy

From Wikipedia
"Jagielka joined the youth academy at Sheffield United, making his way through the youth ranks before making his first team debut on 5 May 2000 against Swindon Town in the final League match of the 1999-2000 season, whilst still a trainee."
"Tonge was signed as a youth player by manager Steve Bruce when he was released by Manchester United."
"Coming through the youth ranks at Bramall Lane, Montgomery made his debut at Carrow Road against Norwich City on October 21, 2000."
We seem to have fared better than most clubs in that we have had several academy players come through, either ones that have been nurtured solely by us, or kids from elsewhere. The likes of the two Kyles, and Jags, Tonge and Monty spring to mind.

So, apart from the fact that all three of them came through the system as youth players, you are right. They weren't there long, but they did spend time at Sheffield United as youth players, and that is now the Academy. It might not have been officially called the Academy, but the purpose of the system was still the same. Which is kind of the point I was trying to make, in that they were with the club as youth players before they saw first team action.

What I am trying to get at is whether or not any manager will really care about the youth system, and Jags, Tonge and Monty were all developed partially through the youth system.

To say that as it was "the youth system" and not officially called "the Academy" is splitting hairs. Unless my mind is playing tricks on me and they all signed when they were thirty.

Having also spoken to Ron Reid in the past he seems to think that they came through the Academy system. Of course, he's only the bloke running it, so he could be wrong.
 
So, apart from the fact that all three of them came through the system as youth players, you are right. They weren't there long, but they did spend time at Sheffield United as youth players, and that is now the Academy. It might not have been officially called the Academy, but the purpose of the system was still the same. Which is kind of the point I was trying to make, in that they were with the club as youth players before they saw first team action.

What I am trying to get at is whether or not any manager will really care about the youth system, and Jags, Tonge and Monty were all developed partially through the youth system.

To say that as it was "the youth system" and not officially called "the Academy" is splitting hairs. Unless my mind is playing tricks on me and they all signed when they were thirty.

Having also spoken to Ron Reid in the past he seems to think that they came through the Academy system. Of course, he's only the bloke running it, so he could be wrong.

Man United, Liverpool and Arsenal have made a habit over the years of pinching talented young players off other Academies.
 
The downside is, of course, when the club invests a lot of time and a reasonable amount of money in trying to bring a promising player through the system - only to see him turn out to be a dud. Ian Ross is a recent example.

What's he doing now? I think he was released by Rotherham at the end of last season.

Jonathan Forte was another one who never quite lived up to expectations, though he is at least still playing.

Kevan Hurst?

etc.
 
The downside is, of course, when the club invests a lot of time and a reasonable amount of money in trying to bring a promising player through the system - only to see him turn out to be a dud. Ian Ross is a recent example.

What's he doing now? I think he was released by Rotherham at the end of last season.

Jonathan Forte was another one who never quite lived up to expectations, though he is at least still playing.

Kevan Hurst?

etc.

Ross is apparently at Alfreton Town!
 
Academy's are a huge gamble, you take on a bunch of "talented" youngsters at 8 years old, invest time and money in them, some drop off over the years, but a few will remain.

The problem then is that they have to make the step up to 1st team and only a few ever make it.

My mate's younger brother started at Leeds but as he was a Man U fan, when Man U came knocking he jumped ship. Did well through the Man U Academy, did a year at Antwerp, came back and was top Scorer in the Man U Reserves under Brian McClair, he was a rising star by all accounts. But ended up down at Macclesfield (when they played Chelsea in the FA Cup) and has since given up pro football and is studying at University.

For whatever reason he just couldn't make the step up yet did well in the Academy.

Perhaps the bigger teams have a better ratio of bringing players through, but I'd be interested to know how many academy players that are put on pro contracts are out of Professional football within 2 or 5 years.
 
Academy's are a huge gamble, you take on a bunch of "talented" youngsters at 8 years old, invest time and money in them, some drop off over the years, but a few will remain.

The problem then is that they have to make the step up to 1st team and only a few ever make it.

My mate's younger brother started at Leeds but as he was a Man U fan, when Man U came knocking he jumped ship. Did well through the Man U Academy, did a year at Antwerp, came back and was top Scorer in the Man U Reserves under Brian McClair, he was a rising star by all accounts. But ended up down at Macclesfield (when they played Chelsea in the FA Cup) and has since given up pro football and is studying at University.

For whatever reason he just couldn't make the step up yet did well in the Academy.

Perhaps the bigger teams have a better ratio of bringing players through, but I'd be interested to know how many academy players that are put on pro contracts are out of Professional football within 2 or 5 years.


In the end it probably boils town to mental toughness - being able to perform on the big stage and survive the inevitable setbacks. Being intelligent doesn't necessarily help.

It's the same at most sports. Many players have the skill, but that extra 20% that makes champions is in their mental attitude.
 
In the end it probably boils town to mental toughness - being able to perform on the big stage and survive the inevitable setbacks. Being intelligent doesn't necessarily help.

It's the same at most sports. Many players have the skill, but that extra 20% that makes champions is in their mental attitude.

I once read that to make it at the top in football, you have to be prepared to try to head a ball, without thinking twice, when two opponents are going for the same ball with their feet. As you say, in that kind of situation, intelligence probably doesn't help...
 

I once read that to make it at the top in football, you have to be prepared to try to head a ball, without thinking twice, when two opponents are going for the same ball with their feet. As you say, in that kind of situation, intelligence probably doesn't help...

Or feign the most ridiculous injury in a dramatic fashion, live on TV in front of millions, and not feel in the slight bit embarassed. :rolleyes:
 
i've heard a rumour that kb has fallen out with the academy and this is why he won't pick any of them.. presumably because they can't kick the ball high enough :-/
 
I did hear from a good source that when Blackwell got the big contract extension he implemented some sweeping changes threw the academy.
Not sure if this was to look to the long term or just to put his stamp on the academy and say "I’m in charge now” but I did get the impression it ruffled a few.
one thing i can say is ive seen how a few academys work and we have one of the best.
 
So, apart from the fact that all three of them came through the system as youth players, you are right. They weren't there long, but they did spend time at Sheffield United as youth players, and that is now the Academy. It might not have been officially called the Academy, but the purpose of the system was still the same. Which is kind of the point I was trying to make, in that they were with the club as youth players before they saw first team action.

What I am trying to get at is whether or not any manager will really care about the youth system, and Jags, Tonge and Monty were all developed partially through the youth system.

To say that as it was "the youth system" and not officially called "the Academy" is splitting hairs. Unless my mind is playing tricks on me and they all signed when they were thirty.

Having also spoken to Ron Reid in the past he seems to think that they came through the Academy system. Of course, he's only the bloke running it, so he could be wrong.


Our academy started in 2001 and the building was complete in 2003 or 2004. Jags and Monty never played in the Academy League, they played in the old N.I.L. Tonge played in 3 or 4 academy matches before making his 1st team start in Sept 2001
 
Our academy started in 2001 and the building was complete in 2003 or 2004. Jags and Monty never played in the Academy League, they played in the old N.I.L. Tonge played in 3 or 4 academy matches before making his 1st team start in Sept 2001

Statto one upmanship time...

I am pretty sure the NIL ended sometime in the early 90's. By the late 90's, early 2000's United's youth team played in something called something like the Football League Youth Alliance.

Also Tonge made his debut as sub v Wimbledon at home on 17/4/01 and had his first start at Bolton on 6/5/01.
 
The main point I am trying to make is the one that most managers are not too concerned about players that won't come near the first team until the managers are long gone. Not whether the youth system is called the "youth ranks", "academy" or "Mrs. Wilberforce's Dachshund School".
 
Statto one upmanship time...

I am pretty sure the NIL ended sometime in the early 90's. By the late 90's, early 2000's United's youth team played in something called something like the Football League Youth Alliance.

Also Tonge made his debut as sub v Wimbledon at home on 17/4/01 and had his first start at Bolton on 6/5/01.

Forgot he started at Bolton! I stand corrected!
 
>This is a joke....right?
err.. no .. aah you mean the kicking the ball bit.. yeah that bit is a joke.. i was being sarcastic.. but the first bit is the rumour.
 
Heard that Blackies stepped up his attempts to have more control of the academy.

Can anyone else confirm anything?

From what I was told Reid has had enough of it and is thinking of calling it a day and Mark Smith has his eyes on a move to a bigger role in the academy.
It will be a black day for us if this is true. Not just losing Reid but Smith being in charge.
 
We should put Commandant Lassard in charge of the Academy.

Mike Giggler, via email

Eric_Lassard_2.jpg
 

All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?

All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?

Back
Top Bottom