Our 3 big signings this season

[DronnieBlade]

I stick by that 100%.
Where have I argued against or tried to change that?

Yes they do offer different threats as a 9.

Interesting that you misinterpret this.
You're clearly assuming i'm claiming that offering different threats means they both offer a similar amount.....I'm not.

Sharp is probably the better finisher.
But besides that, McBurnie offers everything else that Sharp cannot.
Ability in the air, leading the line, pressuring the opposition, fitness to last 90 minutes at a high intensity etc.


To sum it up, for the sake of the debate, lets say there are 10 key attributes required from a striker, i'm arguing that McBurnie has 8/9 of them whilst Sharp has 1/2.

A quick check of the official club website statistics section would be a valuable source of inspiration for you !

Oh, And there is always my .

UTB

 

[CentralQuay]

A quick check of the official club website statistics section would be a valuable source of inspiration for you !

Oh, And there is always my .

UTB

I've already linked the stats.

Appearances.

Sharp 21 out of 33
McBurnie 31 out of 33.

 

[DronnieBlade]

I've already linked the stats.

Appearances.

Sharp 21 out of 33
McBurnie 31 out of 33.

List them all.

Be gobsmacked if you could get 8/9 out of 10 for one and 1/2 out of 10 for t’other.

Or is appearances the only one that matters ??

UTB

 

[CentralQuay]

List them all.

Be gobsmacked if you could get 8/9 out of 10 for one and 1/2 out of 10 for t’other.

Or is appearances the only one that matters ??

UTB

Tell me how you quantify 'leading the line' or 'mobility'?

The '10 attributes' was purely hypothetical.

 

[DronnieBlade]

Tell me how you quantify 'leading the line' or 'mobility'?

The '10 attributes' was purely hypothetical.

Which roughly translates as a figment of your imagination !

Give me 30 mins .

UTB

 

[CentralQuay]

Which roughly translates as a figment of your imagination !

Give me 30 mins .

UTB

Must be figment of Wilder's too.

Hence McBurnie is almost always selected over Sharp.

 

[Silent Blade]

Tell me how you quantify 'leading the line' or 'mobility'?

The '10 attributes' was purely hypothetical.

I would suggest that you ignore DronnieBlade . He hates Clarke and McBurnie and always insists on having the last word.

 

[Hamburg Blade]

I stick by that 100%.
Where have I argued against or tried to change that?

Yes they do offer different threats as a 9.

Interesting that you misinterpret this.
You're clearly assuming i'm claiming that offering different threats means they both offer a similar amount.....I'm not.

Sharp is probably the better finisher.
But besides that, McBurnie offers everything else that Sharp cannot.
Ability in the air, leading the line, pressuring the opposition, fitness to last 90 minutes at a high intensity etc.


To sum it up, for the sake of the debate, lets say there are 10 key attributes required from a striker, i'm arguing that McBurnie has 8/9 of them whilst Sharp has 1/2.

You contradict yourself and then come up with a convoluted explanation which only contradicts yourself even more.

 

[DronnieBlade]

Tell me how you quantify 'leading the line' or 'mobility'?

The '10 attributes' was purely hypothetical.

Right. Here goes.

Taken directly from the official club website and thus relied upon for accuracy.

And let me make this very clear at the outset that I do not wish to make this a BS vs OMc thread at all. Just have a desire to correct you !

DEFENCE STATISTICS.

Tackles won
BS 83% OMc 59%
What this tells me is that Sharp has quicker feet and is significantly more capable of winning a tackle than Ol.

Duels won
BS 43% OMc 48%.
Not a lot in it but Ol just in front here.

Aerial duals won.
Absolutely no surprise to see Ol with a 50% vs 35% advantage here. Significant height advantage takes care of this. What would be interesting is if these figures could be dissected in to offence duels won and defensive duels won !

In terms of overall aerial ability, Ol is more effective. No doubt. I would question his heading technique over BS and state that the advantage here is almost 100% down to height advantage. BS “technically” the better aerially and certainly in an offensive sense.

DISTRIBUTION

Pass Success
BS 76% OMc 62%

I take this to form a significant contributory factor towards “leading the line” given the similar roles played by the two.

Key passes

BS 12 OMc 10
And in fewer minutes.
I take this to read that BS is more capable of finding a key pass and thus demonstrates better spatial awareness, this being a key attribute for any striker.

Pass accuracy in opp half

BS 76% OMc 62%
See above

Goal conversion rate
BS 27% OMc 13%
Tells it’s own story that few would argue with.

Goal per mins played
BS 281 OMc 360.

Significant improvement required by both IMHO.

Let’s now turn to the 3 esses.

Speed, Strength, Stamina.

Speed.

Sharp is quicker.

Strength.

Sharp is stronger.

Stamina

Dunno, although when either start they rarely compete the full 90 mins, which for me is a demand of the role rather than any deficiencies in either.

What I have attempted to do here is provide a statistical comparison of certain key attributes as I see them, that are quantifiable, meaningful and provide the basis of comparison between player A and player B.

Not as clear cut as you previously imagined.

Is it ?.

UTB

Tell me how you quantify 'leading the line' or 'mobility'?

The '10 attributes' was purely hypothetical.

 

[DronnieBlade]

Must be figment of Wilder's too.

Hence McBurnie is almost always selected over Sharp.

PS.

Have you seen every single minute of every single UTD game this season ?

Just curious !!

UTB

 

[DronnieBlade]

I would suggest that you ignore DronnieBlade . He hates Clarke and McBurnie and always insists on having the last word.

Hate .

UTB

 

[DronnieBlade]

Right. Here goes.

Taken directly from the official club website and thus relied upon for accuracy.

And let me make this very clear at the outset that I do not wish to make this a BS vs OMc thread at all. Just have a desire to correct you !

DEFENCE STATISTICS.

Tackles won
BS 83% OMc 59%
What this tells me is that Sharp has quicker feet and is significantly more capable of winning a tackle than Ol.

Duels won
BS 43% OMc 48%.
Not a lot in it but Ol just in front here.

Aerial duals won.
Absolutely no surprise to see Ol with a 50% vs 35% advantage here. Significant height advantage takes care of this. What would be interesting is if these figures could be dissected in to offence duels won and defensive duels won !

In terms of overall aerial ability, Ol is more effective. No doubt. I would question his heading technique over BS and state that the advantage here is almost 100% down to height advantage. BS “technically” the better aerially and certainly in an offensive sense.

DISTRIBUTION

Pass Success
BS 76% OMc 62%

I take this to form a significant contributory factor towards “leading the line” given the similar roles played by the two.

Key passes

BS 12 OMc 10
And in fewer minutes.
I take this to read that BS is more capable of finding a key pass and thus demonstrates better spatial awareness, this being a key attribute for any striker.

Pass accuracy in opp half

BS 76% OMc 62%
See above

Goal conversion rate
BS 27% OMc 13%
Tells it’s own story that few would argue with.

Goal per mins played
BS 281 OMc 360.

Significant improvement required by both IMHO.

Let’s now turn to the 3 esses.

Speed, Strength, Stamina.

Speed.

Sharp is quicker.

Strength.

Sharp is stronger.

Stamina

Dunno, although when either start they rarely compete the full 90 mins, which for me is a demand of the role rather than any deficiencies in either.

What I have attempted to do here is provide a statistical comparison of certain key attributes as I see them, that are quantifiable, meaningful and provide the basis of comparison between player A and player B.

Not as clear cut as you previously imagined.

Is it ?.

UTB

My bad !!


Pass accuracy in opp half

BS 73% OMc 57%
UTB

 

[CentralQuay]

My point has always been clear and consistent. McBurnie has far more to offer on the pitch than Sharp in the Premier League, imo so do McGoldrick and Mousset, but i'm not going to throw those in the mix as you're clearly already struggling to comprehend a very very simple point.

Wilder is deliberately selecting McBurnie ahead of Sharp.
Of all 4 main strikers, McBurnie, Mousset, McGoldrick and Sharp, McBurnie is clearly the only one of the 4 who is immune to the policy of rotation. Or, at the very least, is by far the least affected by it.

I guess Wilder is wrong then?

 

[DronnieBlade]

My point has always been clear and consistent. McBurnie has far more to offer on the pitch than Sharp in the Premier League, imo so do McGoldrick and Mousset, but i'm not going to throw those in the mix as you're clearly already struggling to comprehend a very very simple point.

Wilder is deliberately selecting McBurnie ahead of Sharp.
Of all 4 main strikers, McBurnie, Mousset, McGoldrick and Sharp, McBurnie is clearly the only one of the 4 who is immune to the policy of rotation. Or, at the very least, is by far the least affected by it.

I guess Wilder is wrong then?

Your point was in key attributes (out of your hypothetical () scoring system out of 10 (revisit what you previously said)), your claim was one was CLEARLY AND DEMONSTRABLY streets ahead of the other.

Happy to clear that up for you .

That was my ONLY point.

Watched every minute of every game this season have you ?

Keep hanging your hat on the “Wilder prefers him” angle if you must. I totally agree on this point btw.

UTB

 

[CentralQuay]

Your point was in key attributes (out of your hypothetical () scoring system out of 10 (revisit what you previously said)), your claim was one was CLEARLY AND DEMONSTRABLY streets ahead of the other.

Happy to clear that up for you .

That was my ONLY point.

Watched every minute of every game this season have you ?

Keep hanging your hat on the “Wilder prefers him” angle if you must. I totally agree on this point btw.

UTB

My initial point was simple.
Wilder prefers McBurnie, because McBurnie has a lot more to offer on the pitch/Sharp has a lot less to offer on the pitch, both outcomes are the same.

 

[DronnieBlade]

My initial point was simple.
Wilder prefers McBurnie, because McBurnie has a lot more to offer on the pitch/Sharp has a lot less to offer on the pitch, both outcomes are the same.

And the stats prove it .

There have been significant chunks of this season where McBurnies individual performance levels have been dreadful. I will say that again. Dreadful. Have watched every minute of it. This is CATEGORICALLY not all down to poor service to the front line.

While not necessarily the last word on the subject, go back on Deadbat’s match reports over the entire season for a reasoned, detailed and, IMHO, accurate overview all things considered.

I will give you this. McBurnie has shown in the last 2 or 3 games (only the last 2 or 3 games that is) what he is actually capable of. Encouraging. What he absolutely must do is build on this and deliver more consistent performances at on or around this level.

Time will tell if he is up to it .

UTB

 

[Keen Blade]

Our strength this season has been to concede very few goals. Our weakness has been to score too few. Our 5 strikers reflect our modest budget and none is perfect.
But the way Billy recognised Osborn's dink at Burnley + came out like a shot to backhead it to Egan is a sign of his awareness & quality. I don't see any of the others doing that.
But he's getting older + will need replacing.
Calum Robinson was loaned out by CW which is significant when you consider our limited options - I can't see him coming back unless we change our shape. It strikes me as an example of CW recognising his mistake + taking action to correct it.
Didsy is really a link player - I almost don't count him as a striker - which fits with his lack of goals this season.
So coming to our 2 most expensive strikers , Mousset is a total enigma. I just can't understand why he hasn't developed stamina after a season with us. He looks knackered far too quickly in a game.
He has the reputation of being the poorest trainer at the club.
He also doesn't seem to have the right mental attitude for a CW player , eg not chasing back to win the ball & letting his head drop when things don't go his way. On the other hand , he is strong in a tussle + can play some great passes + score some sublime goals , the one at Everton being a most natural one-touch strikers goal.
What he needs to develop is the ability to play 90 mins.
It will be interesting to see if CW thinks he can get more out of him or is ready to offload.
McB has not convinced me this season due to inconsistency - if he could put in performances such as v Spurs more frequently , then he could develop into a proper PL striker.
I can't see CW moving him on when he's described his Spurs showing as a complete striker on a par with Brian Deane.
When you see a no.9 who's 6'2" , most Blades expect a target man with some threat in the air , but that is not McB. He is actually quite slender + not as strong as Mousset in the tussle. So he tends to get dominated by bigger PL CBs , the game at Burnley being an example - I just don't know why we kept lumping it up to him - that is not his game.
I actually think he is better with his feet than his head - his best move at Burnley was when he got going past 3 of their defenders on the RW.
He can't carve out his own chances , so he needs service , into feet if possible. Look at his goal at Brighton.
So what should he be looking to develop ?
More strength in the tussle. And stop the habit of moaning to the refs looking for fouls - it just irritates them + they get less & less likely to give them.
We have to accept that at £20m & 10m we are shopping in the market for Championship strikers or PL reserves who might develop.
The fact that CW has given 2 year contracts to Didsy & Billy suggests that unless we make a big sale in the window , we are not going to be recruiting any strikers.
Lys & Ollie are both 24 , I really hope they are young enough to want to keep improving - they will carry even more responsibility next season.

 

[DronnieBlade]

Our strength this season has been to concede very few goals. Our weakness has been to score too few. Our 5 strikers reflect our modest budget and none is perfect.
But the way Billy recognised Osborn's dink at Burnley + came out like a shot to backhead it to Egan is a sign of his awareness & quality. I don't see any of the others doing that.
But he's getting older + will need replacing.
Calum Robinson was loaned out by CW which is significant when you consider our limited options - I can't see him coming back unless we change our shape. It strikes me as an example of CW recognising his mistake + taking action to correct it.
Didsy is really a link player - I almost don't count him as a striker - which fits with his lack of goals this season.
So coming to our 2 most expensive strikers , Mousset is a total enigma. I just can't understand why he hasn't developed stamina after a season with us. He looks knackered far too quickly in a game.
He has the reputation of being the poorest trainer at the club.
He also doesn't seem to have the right mental attitude for a CW player , eg not chasing back to win the ball & letting his head drop when things don't go his way. On the other hand , he is strong in a tussle + can play some great passes + score some sublime goals , the one at Everton being a most natural one-touch strikers goal.
What he needs to develop is the ability to play 90 mins.
It will be interesting to see if CW thinks he can get more out of him or is ready to offload.
McB has not convinced me this season due to inconsistency - if he could put in performances such as v Spurs more frequently , then he could develop into a proper PL striker.
I can't see CW moving him on when he's described his Spurs showing as a complete striker on a par with Brian Deane.
When you see a no.9 who's 6'2" , most Blades expect a target man with some threat in the air , but that is not McB. He is actually quite slender + not as strong as Mousset in the tussle. So he tends to get dominated by bigger PL CBs , the game at Burnley being an example - I just don't know why we kept lumping it up to him - that is not his game.
I actually think he is better with his feet than his head - his best move at Burnley was when he got going past 3 of their defenders on the RW.
He can't carve out his own chances , so he needs service , into feet if possible. Look at his goal at Brighton.
So what should he be looking to develop ?
More strength in the tussle. And stop the habit of moaning to the refs looking for fouls - it just irritates them + they get less & less likely to give them.
We have to accept that at £20m & 10m we are shopping in the market for Championship strikers or PL reserves who might develop.
The fact that CW has given 2 year contracts to Didsy & Billy suggests that unless we make a big sale in the window , we are not going to be recruiting any strikers.
Lys & Ollie are both 24 , I really hope they are young enough to want to keep improving - they will carry even more responsibility next season.

Totally agree on your first two sentences. Been glaringly obvious.

The killer question, that we will never have the answer to is, has Wilder optimised our offensive output with his forward selections on a game to game basis ??

Honestly, I have major doubts about this.

UTB

 

[Bert]

This aged well.

Bert knows a player when he sees one.

He also knows what a dud looks like.

 

[DronnieBlade]

Totally agree on your first two sentences. Been glaringly obvious.

The killer question, that we will never have the answer to is, has Wilder optimised our offensive output with his forward selections on a game to game basis ??

Honestly, I have major doubts about this.

UTB

We have an answer now !

UTB