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Overthehills

Overthehills

Give Quiche A Chance....
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Over The Hills... Obviously
I hear cries for another skillful, tricky, creative midfielder.... Many are saying that one of our loan players should be of this particular mould.

You could argue that Slimane's arrival should already spell the end for one of the retained lads?... Therefore surely the arrival of another midfielder on loan should be the final nail in the coffin?

The obvious candidate is FLECK.....whilst some still have some sort of sentimental love in with him, he isn't good enough for the top flight any more in my own personal opinion.

Whilst Osborn is another possible candidate, Hecky seems to see him as a bit more flexible in position. Whilst he isn't a world beater in the position, he can still play wing back etc.

Norwood.....He was again statistically one of the better performers in the championship again last season. At times I struggle to see his effectiveness, but he obviously is head and shoulders above the two above.....

I know some may cry that I shouldn't single out individuals, but I was honestly shocked to see him on the retained list. Once upon a time Fleck was a player that we replied on.....but not in the championship in later years, never mind the PL.
 

Sorry, why are we shipping out Fleck or Osborn that just signed pretty cheap contract renewals?

I'd guess Fleck will be about 7th choice in midfield, by the time the transfer window closes.

But if we get two or three injuries, he's suddenly not that far away from some game time.

If we get three injuries and Fleck has been shipped out, we might be playing a 17yr old that's not even good enough for Chesterfield.
 
Stevens, Fleck and Sharp were the only players I wouldn't have given a new deal to.

I can only think Hecky reckons he can still do something with Fleck but look at his injuries and the seizure he had. He isn't the same player anymore and I am not sure how you can wind the clock back especially with him being the wrong side of 30.

Maybe the last 2 years or so its all been one big fitness issue and some bad luck. Maybe there is still the old John Fleck in there waiting to come out but Jimmy Fleck is the one making the appearances. The fact that Wilder coined the name Jimmy Fleck ages ago now and it hasn't gone away says it all.

True isn't a starter anymore but is he even good enough to even be coming off the bench at Premier League level for 15 minutes? Time will tell.
 
brownblade said:
Sorry, why are we shipping out Fleck or Osborn that just signed pretty cheap contract renewals?

I'd guess Fleck will be about 7th choice in midfield, by the time the transfer window closes.

But if we get two or three injuries, he's suddenly not that far away from some game time.

If we get three injuries and Fleck has been shipped out, we might be playing a 17yr old that's not even good enough for Chesterfield.
Click to expand...

Perhaps on the basis that Fleck isn't good enough top top flight football? Why would we waste wages on a player who you rightly point out is way down the pecking order?... perhaps even behind young, novice, up and coming players with a point to prove.

Fleck won't be on a pittance, because let's face it.... if he was....he would walk off and sign for a Championship club (where he would still have offers based on past experience).
 
I'm not one to question Heckys decisions, he's served us well so far. So unless you pretend to know better, which you don't, budget wise and all other factors taken into consideration, maybe support him? I know that's a far out there view, but i don't have another manager lined up, or the powwer to implement one. so.... shut up and see where it goes?
 
knowsnowt said:
I'm not one to question Heckys decisions, he's served us well so far. So unless you pretend to know better, which you don't, budget wise and all other factors taken into consideration, maybe support him? I know that's a far out there view, but i don't have another manager lined up, or the powwer to implement one. so.... shut up and see where it goes?
Click to expand...

I support Hecky I just question his decision making regarding keeping Fleck especially since we achieved promotion.
 
knowsnowt said:
I'm not one to question Heckys decisions, he's served us well so far. So unless you pretend to know better, which you don't, budget wise and all other factors taken into consideration, maybe support him? I know that's a far out there view, but i don't have another manager lined up, or the powwer to implement one. so.... shut up and see where it goes?
Click to expand...
I agree with you, the only caveat being that Fleck seems to have the luck of being a favoured player for PH. While I suspect that Norwood could be in decline due to inconsistency, he still might have a part to play. Maybe PH sees Fleck in a similar way?
Otherwise Fleck is just a low wage bench warmer for emergency use only. It’s the only major flaw in the PH firmament for me.
 
I think the key is experience, both of the system that Hecky wants to play and in Fleck case he has experience of playing in the prem league before

Added to fact they both signed new deals then I don’t see it myself

I can see a couple of forwards being loaned out to make space for more loan options
 
Overthehills said:
Perhaps on the basis that Fleck isn't good enough top top flight football? Why would we waste wages on a player who you rightly point out is way down the pecking order?... perhaps even behind young, novice, up and coming players with a point to prove.

Fleck won't be on a pittance, because let's face it.... if he was....he would walk off and sign for a Championship club (where he would still have offers based on past experience).
Click to expand...
I didn't expect (or want) to keep Fleck this summer. But it's obviously been baked into the plans for appropriate squad numbers.

He will be on reduced terms and very probably told he's not going to play much.
 
knowsnowt said:
I'm not one to question Heckys decisions, he's served us well so far. So unless you pretend to know better, which you don't, budget wise and all other factors taken into consideration, maybe support him? I know that's a far out there view, but i don't have another manager lined up, or the powwer to implement one. so.... shut up and see where it goes?
Click to expand...
Stop talking sense, go back to the other stuff
 
Business not done.

interviewer - 'How many more, ideally, would you like to complete your squad?'

Hecky - 'As many as possible'

 
In terms of a squad player, I personally translate this as someone who will be actively pushing away to take a short from somebody... and i'm just not overly sure that Fleck is of the calibre to do this any more.

It's nothing personal towards flecky what so ever, i'm just stating my own opinion and I know that doesn't align with everyone elses.

If we are only going to potentially get a handful of games out of him, I just don't see it as good business personally. I don't expect him to rediscover himself and force himself into contention..
 

Fleck is clearly back-up to the back-up. A position that is needed across the board, for all teams. Given that teams need depth, but no AAA , AA or ever A tier player is going to sign a contract that results in them sitting on their arse for 90% of a season teams are left for 2 options. Use the clubs u23's and hope that youth doesn't drop a clanger and derail a career or install some professional experience that you can rely on to give you 6's every time they play.
 
I know he’s had his issues in the last couple of seasons but Fleck is an absolute shadow of the player he once was. He almost hides on the pitch and seemingly doesn’t want to get involved in anything. Buzzing around the pitch and always bring an out let for a pass used to be his strength but not anymore. If we can find a buyer I would sell/release asap.
 
Ron_Justice said:
Business not done.

interviewer - 'How many more, ideally, would you like to complete your squad?'

Hecky - 'As many as possible'

Click to expand...


Interesting that he said we need "good" players....could we see Hecky show a ruthless side and start telling some they are just not good enough?

Or is it a plea to the board to dig deeper for good players instead of, let's face it, gambles in terms of the 3 signed already?
 
Rebster72 said:
I know he’s had his issues in the last couple of seasons but Fleck is an absolute shadow of the player he once was. He almost hides on the pitch and seemingly doesn’t want to get involved in anything. Buzzing around the pitch and always bring an out let for a pass used to be his strength but not anymore. If we can find a buyer I would sell/release asap.
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Agreed

Think of the player that after a EPL 9th place finish Arsenal were sniffing around - some down turn on form that!

Nothing against Fleck, he was outstanding for us for years

But of the 4 that were set for the cull, he would have been last to be retained

1 - Osborn - not an amazing player, but good utility and seemingly happy to be on the bench
2 - Sharp - way past it for the Prem, but would have been good to have around the place, helping Traore and others
3 - Stevens - not good enough but has more legs than Fleck
4 - Fleck - cant run, cant go past a player, doenst have a 'ping', not sure what he brings

Personally would have let all 4 go

If we need experience, cover and a bit of knowhow in the midfield, I would use Bash as dual cover for Def & Mid, and give a squad place to a young un
 
steve26272 said:
Agreed

Think of the player that after a EPL 9th place finish Arsenal were sniffing around - some down turn on form that!

Nothing against Fleck, he was outstanding for us for years

But of the 4 that were set for the cull, he would have been last to be retained

1 - Osborn - not an amazing player, but good utility and seemingly happy to be on the bench
2 - Sharp - way past it for the Prem, but would have been good to have around the place, helping Traore and others
3 - Stevens - not good enough but has more legs than Fleck
4 - Fleck - cant run, cant go past a player, doenst have a 'ping', not sure what he brings

Personally would have let all 4 go

If we need experience, cover and a bit of knowhow in the midfield, I would use Bash as dual cover for Def & Mid, and give a squad place to a young un
Click to expand...
How useful would Billy have been to Jebbie,and other young strikers and Traore?
 
Surely we must intend to sign a starting quality Lfooted midfielder to rank ahead of Osborn and Fleck ?
So for 3 places in MF we have Berge , Norwood , Slimane , a new quality Lfooted midfielder , Coulibaly , Osborn and Fleck who ranks seventh.
It strikes me that Fleck will rarely make the matchday 20 - he will be with the injured guys Brewster , RND etc in positions 21-25.
Does he have the character or ambition to stay fit and be of any use if called upon ?
PH thinks he does - let’s see.
IMHO the far more worrying issue is that we find a creative Lfooted midfielder for the starting eleven , or we will have nowhere near enough threat down the L side , having lost McAtee.
 
Keen Blade said:
Surely we must intend to sign a starting quality Lfooted midfielder to rank ahead of Osborn and Fleck ?
So for 3 places in MF we have Berge , Norwood , Slimane , a new quality Lfooted midfielder , Coulibaly , Osborn and Fleck who ranks seventh.
It strikes me that Fleck will rarely make the matchday 20 - he will be with the injured guys Brewster , RND etc in positions 21-25.
Does he have the character or ambition to stay fit and be of any use if called upon ?
PH thinks he does - let’s see.
IMHO the far more worrying issue is that we find a creative Lfooted midfielder for the starting eleven , or we will have nowhere near enough threat down the L side , having lost McAtee.
Click to expand...
Perhaps we haven't made a move in that position yet is because we are holding out for McAtee?

That's my hope anyway 🙏
 
Wish the Prince would take at least a few calculated gambles.
Lewis O'Brien is such an obvious successor to Fleck, and available (you'd think) at a reasonable price.
Be a shame to lose a loan slot on a player like him, you really want to be bringing in X-Factor with those two slots (Chukwuemeka, McAtee, C Palmer etc.)
 
S26Blade said:
Perhaps we haven't made a move in that position yet is because we are holding out for McAtee?

That's my hope anyway 🙏
Click to expand...
Any mcatee hopes are dead and buried after Silva's injury if you ask me....

Pep likes him and that means a hell of a lot because he is the type of manager who will invest time and confidence in lads.
 
CaptainMorgans said:
Wish the Prince would take at least a few calculated gambles.
Lewis O'Brien is such an obvious successor to Fleck, and available (you'd think) at a reasonable price.
Be a shame to lose a loan slot on a player like him, you really want to be bringing in X-Factor with those two slots (Chukwuemeka, McAtee, C Palmer etc.)
Click to expand...
I keep thinking he might take a gamble and sign Doyle. John Brayford style. Seems unlikely though!
 
Rebster72 said:
I know he’s had his issues in the last couple of seasons but Fleck is an absolute shadow of the player he once was. He almost hides on the pitch and seemingly doesn’t want to get involved in anything. Buzzing around the pitch and always bring an out let for a pass used to be his strength but not anymore. If we can find a buyer I would sell/release asap.
Click to expand...

i couldn't disagree more.

I agree that he isn'r the Fleck of 2016-2019, but he can still do a job. Lots of people saying his legs have gone, but what about the Preston goal a couple of months ago?
As others have said, why spend money on backup players? He knows the team, players and Hecky, knows his role and has on old head. He can come on late in a game and help to dictate pace, plus he can put a foot in when needed.

I have no problem with his signing and really wonder what our fans want. Let's say Fleck was released. Who would we sign and what would we have to pay, for a backup player with PL experience? Signing Fleck allowed us to spend money on Slimane.

We haven't got a bottomless pot, Fleck is a relatively cheap option.

Get over it and back our Scottish warrior.
 

Scottish Warrior 🤣🤣🤣? He’s somewhere looking for an easy out asap to the retirement home that is Scottish football. I suspect that even he knows he’s now back up, but we can’t find anything that will come in and force him out. Tragedy. Paucity of resources.
 
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