Oldham - post match analysis

[Bergen Blade]

Nigel Adkins is learning things about his squad every week. All season he's been making tweaks, adjustments, changes in selections, roles and formations to try get the balance just right and to get the most out of his players. I'm still hopeful he'll get it right eventually.

Against Oldham he started with this line up:

Howard

Freeman McGahey Collins Wallace

Basham
Baxter - - -- - - Scougall

Adams - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Done
Sharp​

There are a few good things about this team on paper. Basham has got a few decent defensive attributes, height, tackling, hard work. You'd think he'd be good at protecting the back four, making headers and tackles in front of the centre halves and making their jobs easier. On paper the 4-3-3, easily transformed to 4-5-1 should give us an extra man advantage in the middle of the park, compared to our 4-4-2 formation which Adkins played in his first couple of months.

Going forward the starting eleven also looks quite exciting. Full backs who both have something to offer going forward. The creativity of Baxter combined with Scougall's running on and off the ball in advanced midfield. Pace and goal-scoring ability out wide and an experienced poacher up front.

So why didn't it work?

We really struggled in midfield first half. Several times Oldham played straight through us. Adams and Done did not get back as much as required, and this meant Scougall and Baxter struggled to get close enough to the Oldham midfielders.

Basham also struggled to sweep up behind them. Despite his defensive attributes, he lacks experience in this position and didn't seem to know whether to get stuck in, or to hold a sweeping position. It takes a football brain to get these things right, as shown by Stuart McCall in his first season with us, and on occasions by Michael Doyle.

An example of us not getting close to Oldham:







Basham in the holding role was also a problem from an attacking perspective. He's not composed on the ball enough to come short, get the ball from the defenders and distribute with neat passes. Adkins knows this, so we don't use Basham in that manner. Instead we were more direct and our attacks were often chipped balls from defenders down the channels to our forward trio, neither of whom managed to get hold of it, or hold it up, and it soon came back.

We got the equaliser. A fine run by Scougall and superb shot by Done. It didn't come as a result of us playing particularly well though.

After 35 minutes Adkins made the change which did change the pattern of the game. Basham and Baxter swapped positions.

From that point we took over the midfield. Basham got closer to the Oldham midfielders who could no longer distribute forward without being closed down, we won more second balls, more tackles, more free kicks and got more situations in the box. Scougall's chasing became more effective too. Baxter showed on a couple of occasions that he is capable of reading the game well, and from a defensive point of view he's more suited to this role, rather than chasing around.

Oldham produced very little after this.

Consequently we got chances. Sharp hit the post first half, then in the second half:

• 4' sitter for Collins
• 4' Sharp plays Che through on goal, goes to ground after clashing with the goalkeeper
• 11' Che sends Done clear, finish just wide
• 14' Baxter reads game well, intercepts, runs on ball, shoots over
• 15' Red card for Oldham - this also affects the pattern of the game for a messy ten minutes
• 24' Sharp sitter after cross from Wallace
• 27' Sharp cross, Scougall sitter, but hits post

With no reward we sort of ran out of steam after this, a powerful Adams shot the closest we got.

I think fans have been too harsh after the game. It was probably worse, and a lot more disappointing watching it live. Especially when they got down to ten men and we still fail to score, it can be extremely frustrating. Sammon came on and didn't do well. I've seen a few ridicule the fact that he came on to play on the left, ignoring that he came on and helped rescue the game from that role a few weeks ago at Bradford.

I'd like to see Adkins stick with the side that played from the 35th minute, as there is decent balance and good attacking potential in that XI. I don't expect us to suddenly turn into world beaters, but if those eleven can learn more about each other and develop a better understanding I think there's good reason to hope for improved performances both offensively and defensively.

 

[Harry's Game]

Basham has been a disappointment for me, when he went back into midfield towards the end of last season he produced some excellent performances...

...but since the car crash performance in the play off second leg at Swindon he hasn't looked as effective in the role.

 

[judge]

Cant wait to read the newspaper article on the day we are due to win promotion when adkins spillls the beans on the difficulties he has had dealing with a squad of players who just dont seem to give a fuck

 

[Barney]

So why didn't it work?
The players aren't good enough.

That's all it needed.

 

[Barney]

Cant wait to read the newspaper article on the day we are due to win promotion when adkins spillls the beans on the difficulties he has had dealing with a squad of players who just dont seem to give a fuck

Probably because half of them are getting released at the end of this season.

 

[Bergen Blade]

That's all it needed.

It was the same eleven that played before and after the 35th minute.

 

[Large Mendonca]

That's all it needed.

Made me laugh - have a like.

 

[DazBlade88]

Good analysis Bergs. It was far from pretty and we weren't at our best but the reaction has been way over the top.

Another day we walk out of the game with a comfortable 3-1 win and we're all happy. For me the team lacks a winning mentality and the determination to grind the wins out often enough when they're not on top of their game.

 

[Cutbush City Limits]

I really enjoy this analysis...cheers Bergen. But having been one of the poor sods that went to Oldham, we can do all the analysis of systems we want, but unless we learn to pick the right pass, get balls in the box from good areas (instead of going back to Howard) improve the ability to actually tackle an opponent and start getting shots on target, no system is going to work.

Basics.

 

[SUFC Handsworth]

Team plays poorly, team gets stick off fans (who had given them 90 minutes solid backing) after the full time whistle, might just give a kick up the backside to a number of players in that starting XI that are at best treading water.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

Nigel Adkins is learning things about his squad every week. All season he's been making tweaks, adjustments, changes in selections, roles and formations to try get the balance just right and to get the most out of his players. I'm still hopeful he'll get it right eventually.

Against Oldham he started with this line up:

Howard

Freeman McGahey Collins Wallace

Basham
Baxter - - -- - - Scougall

Adams - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Done
Sharp​

There are a few good things about this team on paper. Basham has got a few decent defensive attributes, height, tackling, hard work. You'd think he'd be good at protecting the back four, making headers and tackles in front of the centre halves and making their jobs easier. On paper the 4-3-3, easily transformed to 4-5-1 should give us an extra man advantage in the middle of the park, compared to our 4-4-2 formation which Adkins played in his first couple of months.

Going forward the starting eleven also looks quite exciting. Full backs who both have something to offer going forward. The creativity of Baxter combined with Scougall's running on and off the ball in advanced midfield. Pace and goal-scoring ability out wide and an experienced poacher up front.

So why didn't it work?

We really struggled in midfield first half. Several times Oldham played straight through us. Adams and Done did not get back as much as required, and this meant Scougall and Baxter struggled to get close enough to the Oldham midfielders.

Basham also struggled to sweep up behind them. Despite his defensive attributes, he lacks experience in this position and didn't seem to know whether to get stuck in, or to hold a sweeping position. It takes a football brain to get these things right, as shown by Stuart McCall in his first season with us, and on occasions by Michael Doyle.

An example of us not getting close to Oldham:







Basham in the holding role was also a problem from an attacking perspective. He's not composed on the ball enough to come short, get the ball from the defenders and distribute with neat passes. Adkins knows this, so we don't use Basham in that manner. Instead we were more direct and our attacks were often chipped balls from defenders down the channels to our forward trio, neither of whom managed to get hold of it, or hold it up, and it soon came back.

We got the equaliser. A fine run by Scougall and superb shot by Done. It didn't come as a result of us playing particularly well though.

After 35 minutes Adkins made the change which did change the pattern of the game. Basham and Baxter swapped positions.

From that point we took over the midfield. Basham got closer to the Oldham midfielders who could no longer distribute forward without being closed down, we won more second balls, more tackles, more free kicks and got more situations in the box. Scougall's chasing became more effective too. Baxter showed on a couple of occasions that he is capable of reading the game well, and from a defensive point of view he's more suited to this role, rather than chasing around.

Oldham produced very little after this.

Consequently we got chances. Sharp hit the post first half, then in the second half:

• 4' sitter for Collins
• 4' Sharp plays Che through on goal, goes to ground after clashing with the goalkeeper
• 11' Che sends Done clear, finish just wide
• 14' Baxter reads game well, intercepts, runs on ball, shoots over
• 15' Red card for Oldham - this also affects the pattern of the game for a messy ten minutes
• 24' Sharp sitter after cross from Wallace
• 27' Sharp cross, Scougall sitter, but hits post

With no reward we sort of ran out of steam after this, a powerful Adams shot the closest we got.

I think fans have been too harsh after the game. It was probably worse, and a lot more disappointing watching it live. Especially when they got down to ten men and we still fail to score, it can be extremely frustrating. Sammon came on and didn't do well. I've seen a few ridicule the fact that he came on to play on the left, ignoring that he came on and helped rescue the game from that role a few weeks ago at Bradford.

I'd like to see Adkins stick with the side that played from the 35th minute, as there is decent balance and good attacking potential in that XI. I don't expect us to suddenly turn into world beaters, but if those eleven can learn more about each other and develop a better understanding I think there's good reason to hope for improved performances both offensively and defensively.

Great analysis Bergen Blade, and as always Thanks.

I think this is absolutely spot on.

I said to WHF Jr Sr in the second half that something had changed but I didn't know what it was. And this was before the sending off. We were controlling the game.

As I posted elsewhere for me yesterday was not about lack of effort it was about the first half and finishing and this really explains how and why.

A great great post.

Our first halfs are so often poor. Eventually, hopefully we'll increase the amount of time we can actually play, and our results will improve - as long as we can finish.

 

[Bergen Blade]

I really enjoy this analysis...cheers Bergen. But having been one of the poor sods that went to Oldham, we can do all the analysis of systems we want, but unless we learn to pick the right pass, get balls in the box from good areas (instead of going back to Howard) improve the ability to actually tackle an opponent and start getting shots on target, no system is going to work.

Basics.

These were all on the other side of the pitch. Did that contribute to fans not quite realising how many and how big our chances were do you think?

 

[marsh blade]

Cant wait to read the newspaper article on the day we are due to win promotion when adkins spillls the beans on the difficulties he has had dealing with a squad of players who just dont seem to give a fuck

Maybe they don't like working sundays and Nigel is testing the water with his squad . who wants it and who does'nt. I'm sure he will find out who the real pro's are to the ones coming in still pissed from the night before and the proffesional ones if we have any .

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

I really enjoy this analysis...cheers Bergen. But having been one of the poor sods that went to Oldham, we can do all the analysis of systems we want, but unless we learn to pick the right pass, get balls in the box from good areas (instead of going back to Howard) improve the ability to actually tackle an opponent and start getting shots on target, no system is going to work.

Basics.

The passes to Howard are an important safety net and a key part of retaining possession. We can either keep the ball with near 100% certainty and try again, or lump it speculatively forwards.

The way I see it any team playing like that will occasionally end up at the keeper when they shouldn't have - but that's going to be after a frustrating misplaced pass in midfield or a momentary lack of control: you're being chased down and you want your team to keep the ball. It's not great that it ends up at the keeper but the frustration should be with the pass or the miscontrol not with the ball to the keeper.

As has been pointed out there was one ridiculous example the other week where a free kick on the halfway line ended up with Howard - but that was bc of a misplaced pass and a loss of control not because we want to gratuitously torture the fanbase.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

These were all on the other side of the pitch. Did that contribute to fans not quite realising how many and how big our chances were do you think?

View attachment 14040 View attachment 14036 View attachment 14039 View attachment 14038 View attachment 14037

I've just watched the extended highlights and had no idea how good the chances were till I saw them.

 

[bartman]

(who had given them 90 minutes solid backing)

The majority of fans were excellent. A vocal small minority seemed intent on abusing the team at every opportunity and some tossers just behind us tried several times to start the ' she's a fucking whore' chant.

The performance wasn't great and the players deserved some stick at the end but I thought some of the vitriol from this small group during the game was not called for

 

[Cutbush City Limits]

The passes to Howard are an important safety net and a key part of retaining possession. We can either keep the ball with near 100% certainty and try again, or lump it speculatively forwards.

The way I see it any team playing like that will occasionally end up at the keeper when they shouldn't have - but that's going to be after a frustrating misplaced pass in midfield or a momentary lack of control: you're being chased down and you want your team to keep the ball. It's not great that it ends up at the keeper but the frustration should be with the pass or the miscontrol not with the ball to the keeper.

As has been pointed out there was one ridiculous example the other week where a free kick on the halfway line ended up with Howard - but that was bc of a misplaced pass and a loss of control not because we want to gratuitously torture the fanbase.

Have no issues with retaining possession, but look carefully how many balls played back to Howard from positive areas are then hoofed hopefully forward and ultimately lost.

 

[Grey Blade]

These were all on the other side of the pitch. Did that contribute to fans not quite realising how many and how big our chances were do you think?

From the third row in the away end I knew we had 2 or 3 near misses but didn't realise what good chances they had been. From that position it is difficult to analyse what's going on. At least I had a good view of Done's goal - a super piece of skill.

At the end of the day I was disappointed by the result but thought the booing and verbal abuse at the final whistle were largely uncalled for

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

Have no issues with retaining possession, but look carefully how many balls played back to Howard from positive areas are then hoofed hopefully forward and ultimately lost.

Agreed. Sometimes we work it back to the keeper in order to be able to punt it hopelessly forwards. If I had any hair I'd've torn it all out by now watching that

 

[JohnDenver]

Sammon came on and didn't do well. I've seen a few ridicule the fact that he came on to play on the left, ignoring that he came on and helped rescue the game from that role a few weeks ago at Bradford.

I was going to post that fact yesterday, but there's little point in the aftermath of a poor game.

Our first halfs are so often poor. Eventually, hopefully we'll increase the amount of time we can actually play, and our results will improve - as long as we can finish.

Not dissimilar to last season. Two different managers, similar players, similar outcomes.

 

[Bergen Blade]

Basham has been a disappointment for me, when he went back into midfield towards the end of last season he produced some excellent performances...

...but since the car crash performance in the play off second leg at Swindon he hasn't looked as effective in the role.

In midfield I think his best role currently is the one he switched to after 35 minutes. With a holding playmaker sweeping up and distributing, Basham and Scougall can get to work offensively and defensively.

 

[Bergen Blade]

Good analysis Bergs. It was far from pretty and we weren't at our best but the reaction has been way over the top.

Another day we walk out of the game with a comfortable 3-1 win and we're all happy. For me the team lacks a winning mentality and the determination to grind the wins out often enough when they're not on top of their game.

Since we switched to 4-3-3 we have done quite well:

• Notts County H 5-1
• Rochdale H 3-2
• Oldham A 1-1

We have got more pace into the team and I think Adkins is getting there in terms of composing his strongest midfield. There have been a couple of failed experiments in the above matches. Against Rochdale we tried two holding midfielders (Coutts and Baxter) with Scougall in front of them, and we struggled to cover enough ground. We left out the immobile Coutts at Oldham, and went with Basham holding and Scougs and Baxter in front of him, but still it didn't quite work. When Adkins swapped Basham and Baxter we immediately started dominating and creating and should have scored at least a couple of goals.

I really hope Adkins will stick with this formula for the time being. Did someone say 2 wins in 8? For me we're on a three match unbeaten run since the shift in paradigm. We are very close to getting it right!

Along the way there have been things that haven't worked, and hopefully Adkins will have learned from that. One tweak in the wrong direction (like picking Coutts and Baxter in the same midfield) can potentially ruin the balance and get us back to a confused state where we'll just try more random changes.

 

[finlaytheblade]

Since we switched to 4-3-3 we have done quite well:

• Notts County H 5-1
• Rochdale H 3-2
• Oldham A 1-1

We have got more pace into the team and I think Adkins is getting there in terms of composing his strongest midfield. There have been a couple of failed experiments in the above matches. Against Rochdale we tried two holding midfielders (Coutts and Baxter) with Scougall in front of them, and we struggled to cover enough ground. We left out the immobile Coutts at Oldham, and went with Basham holding and Scougs and Baxter in front of him, but still it didn't quite work. When Adkins swapped Basham and Baxter we immediately started dominating and creating and should have scored at least a couple of goals.

I really hope Adkins will stick with this formula for the time being. Did someone say 2 wins in 8? For me we're on a three match unbeaten run since the shift in paradigm. We are very close to getting it right!

Along the way there have been things that haven't worked, and hopefully Adkins will have learned from that. One tweak in the wrong direction (like picking Coutts and Baxter in the same midfield) can potentially ruin the balance and get us back to a confused state where we'll just try more random changes.

You certainly know your stuff bergen
Can you put a few up and coming Scandinavian s our way

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Good reading as always Bergen. I agree with you about Basham's best position. The problem is that none of our current midfielders are ideally suited to that deep role. Baxter has some of the attributes. So does Basham. If you could combine their best attributes you'd have a hell of a player on your hands. There's a reason NA wants Hammond though. We need that deep midfielder who can both protect the back 4 and play a bit. That allows Basham to get in peoples faces more and chase the ball in midfield. Then we can either play a number 10 (probably Baxter) or another striker (probably Sammon).

 

[Bergen Blade]

Good reading as always Bergen. I agree with you about Basham's best position. The problem is that none of our current midfielders are ideally suited to that deep role. Baxter has some of the attributes. So does Basham. If you could combine their best attributes you'd have a hell of a player on your hands. There's a reason NA wants Hammond though. We need that deep midfielder who can both protect the back 4 and play a bit. That allows Basham to get in peoples faces more and chase the ball in midfield. Then we can either play a number 10 (probably Baxter) or another striker (probably Sammon).

Agree that Baxter has defensive limitations, but alongside two so hard working players such as Basham and Scougall (and wide men have to help out too) we may get away with it most games. Reed and Coutts are present alternatives. Not sure what would happen if Hammond arrived. If he's given the defensive role I'd expect us to get stronger defensively, but I suspect fans are in for a surprise if they think his playmaking is going to be better than Baxter's. As you say, Hammond arriving could possibly make Adkins tinker with the formation again.

 

[Sharpestblade]

Great stuff Bergen. Midfield control is the key. Too many games we have been 2nd to the first ball, 2nd to the 2nd ball and 2nd to the third ball. Despite this, we create chances but concede too many soft goals.

 

[sheffielder]

Good analysis Bergs. It was far from pretty and we weren't at our best but the reaction has been way over the top.

Another day we walk out of the game with a comfortable 3-1 win and we're all happy. For me the team lacks a winning mentality and the determination to grind the wins out often enough when they're not on top of their game.

Been a while since I heard 'United are hard to break down' should be our number 1 goal away from home

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Agree that Baxter has defensive limitations, but alongside two so hard working players such as Basham and Scougall (and wide men have to help out too) we may get away with it most games. Reed and Coutts are present alternatives. Not sure what would happen if Hammond arrived. If he's given the defensive role I'd expect us to get stronger defensively, but I suspect fans are in for a surprise if they think his playmaking is going to be better than Baxter's. As you say, Hammond arriving could possibly make Adkins tinker with the formation again.

I think having Hammond protect the back four would let Baxter play higher up the pitch and give Basham a role he's more comfortable with if we stick with this system. I'm not expecting Hammond's playmaking to be better than Baxter's but I'm hoping he's good enough on the ball to get us going from the back and will hopefully not play those odd suicide balls that Baxter does in his own half at times.

I was listening to a talksport debate about Ross Barkley yesterday and his tendency to give the ball away in his own half and how he needs to be higher up the pitch so he can afford to take those risks and I think Baxter is similar. They also talked about how England haven't produced a top class number 4 in so long and we have a similar problem in that position now which I'm hoping Hammond will resolve.

 

[Barney Rubble]

[

I think having Hammond protect the back four would let Baxter play higher up the pitch and give Basham a role he's more comfortable with if we stick with this system. I'm not expecting Hammond's playmaking to be better than Baxter's but I'm hoping he's good enough on the ball to get us going from the back and will hopefully not play those odd suicide balls that Baxter does in his own half at times.

I was listening to a talksport debate about Ross Barkley yesterday and his tendency to give the ball away in his own half and how he needs to be higher up the pitch so he can afford to take those risks and I think Baxter is similar. They also talked about how England haven't produced a top class number 4 in so long and we have a similar problem in that position now which I'm hoping Hammond will resolve.

I'd agree with both your posts. The other thing . that would concern me about Baxter playing just in front of the back four is the quality of his tackling - he's got sent off twice as a result of this

When Baxter tires (as he tends to do) I think I'd also see Scougall as a good substitute for him. Someone correctly pointed out on another thread recently that he'd played well when playing in front of the combination of Doyle and Coady and Hammond and Bash would be a similar set up now.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

[


I'd agree with both your posts. The other thing . that would concern me about Baxter playing just in front of the back four is the quality of his tackling - he's got sent off twice as a result of this

When Baxter tires (as he tends to do) I think I'd also see Scougall as a good substitute for him. Someone correctly pointed out on another thread recently that he'd played well when playing in front of the combination of Doyle and Coady and Hammond and Bash would be a similar set up now.

Fair point about the tiredness.and the tackling.

All I'd say is he's been going strong even at the end of games recently.