Observation On Last Night

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Certainly.

less faffing about with short passes
#1

I don't care if we have 70% of the ball or 30% of the ball as long as we still create chances.
#12

When I played Sunday pub league yonks ago we did this, it can be very effective.
#16

“it was pleasing that we hoofed a bit” #21

Taking a chance on an earlier ball rather than trying to get the perfect pass.
#26

There, not hard to find, was it? At least #21 was honest. Excruciatingly embarrassing, but honest.

View attachment 46444

All of those quotes are just short sections of much longer posts. If read in the context of the whole posts, they do not show any desire for anything that might be termed 'hoof'. Most of them suggest that having a varied approach and being more clinical might assist in certain situations.

As I have said before, you really are a thoroughly dislikeable individual, more concerned with patronising people rather than taking part in any type of serious discussion.
 



Certainly.

less faffing about with short passes
#1

Followed by "when we get into crossing positions". Puts a slightly different context on it don't you think? I love the way United play now and I am very much aligned with you regarding a certain midfield maestro with two square feet from a few years back but to quote me as a supporter of hoof by using part of a sentence is not becoming of you.

If I wrote "I dreamt last night I strangled my wife", would you be dialling 999?:rolleyes:
 
We should have a spin the wheel at the side of the pitch
Every time we don't score or conceded possession we give it a spin and completely change tactics, personnel and style of play

The players will just adapt ,being the top drawer world class superstars that they are .of course training will have to be 8 sessions a day

Robbo used to have 8 sessions a day didn't he?
 
All of those quotes are just short sections of much longer posts. If read in the context of the whole posts, they do not show any desire for anything that might be termed 'hoof'. Most of them suggest that having a varied approach and being more clinical might assist in certain situations.

As I have said before, you really are a thoroughly dislikeable individual, more concerned with patronising people rather than taking part in any type of serious discussion.

That's very kind of you.

How any exponent of serious discussion could read 'it was pleasing that we hoofed a bit' in any way other than its plain terms is a mystery I cannot fathom. You asked for examples. There were plenty. You wriggle.
 
"Curate's Egg" makes its forum debut.

images


Deserves a pic. then.
 
Followed by "when we get into crossing positions". Puts a slightly different context on it don't you think? I love the way United play now and I am very much aligned with you regarding a certain midfield maestro with two square feet from a few years back but to quote me as a supporter of hoof by using part of a sentence is not becoming of you.

If I wrote "I dreamt last night I strangled my wife", would you be dialling 999?:rolleyes:

I agree. I was actually reluctant to include your comment because I am well aware of your general views. They are invariably sensible and I usually agree with them. However, having been asked for examples, it would have been disingenuous of me not to include those that appeared relevant, simply because of the identity of the commentator.

The fact is we are playing the best football since the Harris days. It's a joy to watch. Yet every time we lower our very high standards for a few games you can guarantee that, instead of accepting that even the very best footballers are only human and will play poorly from time to time and that's football, some of our fans immediately clamour for Plan B or 'mix it up' or other such euphemisms, actually meaning play more long balls. That's the legacy of the Bassett years. We have people specifically advocating the adoption of low-skilled pub football. It is a philosophy of despair.

#therightway.
 
Isn't a curates egg overall bad/negative - but with some good points?

But in essence it was pleasing that we hoofed a bit but we're also better than them on the ground.
No, but people misuse the term to mean that. What it actually means is something that’s entirely bad but people say it’s partly good out of politeness, like when a kid fucks up a pantomime part and you say ‘yeah but you sang really well’ when his/her singing was as bad as their acting or ‘yeah but you’re good off the ball’ (which probably sounds familiar to some of us).
 
I agree. I was actually reluctant to include your comment because I am well aware of your general views. They are invariably sensible and I usually agree with them. However, having been asked for examples, it would have been disingenuous of me not to include those that appeared relevant, simply because of the identity of the commentator.

The fact is we are playing the best football since the Harris days. It's a joy to watch. Yet every time we lower our very high standards for a few games you can guarantee that, instead of accepting that even the very best footballers are only human and will play poorly from time to time and that's football, some of our fans immediately clamour for Plan B or 'mix it up' or other such euphemisms, actually meaning play more long balls. That's the legacy of the Bassett years. We have people specifically advocating the adoption of low-skilled pub football. It is a philosophy of despair.

#therightway.
Agreed. I would also say that some of our best stuff is played when we move the ball quickly. That doesn't mean hoofing, it means slick passing with players moving forward. We do this often but a slight criticism is that we often get into great positions to cross the ball but choose the short pass, then try to get back to where we were in the first place to put a cross in. By this time, the defence has reorganised or added numbers hence making finding a United player more difficult. Like I say, only a slight criticism and CW has said pretty much the same thing. On tuesday, it seemed as though the team had listened...…


And it worked!:)
 
But we got more points against Brentford than Stoke/Derby/Pigs combined?

Granted it didn't look as good but we don't get awarded owt for presentation.

One result isn't much of a sample size. Why not look at how many points we've gained since adopting this style, rather than cherry picking a single result to compare to other cherry picked results. You'll see our record is outstanding and it's due to playing to create very high percentage chances - i.e. getting in and around the 6 yard box with intricate passing and movement, and not lumping it and hoping for a bit of luck.
 
That's very kind of you.

How any exponent of serious discussion could read 'it was pleasing that we hoofed a bit' in any way other than its plain terms is a mystery I cannot fathom. You asked for examples. There were plenty. You wriggle.


That post was actually made after my initial reply to you, but in any case it does not prove your imaginary point. You've taken the first part of the sentence and conveniently ignored that last part.

The full sentence was "But in essence it was pleasing that we hoofed a bit but we're also better than them on the ground."

Does that show that the poster is (to use your terms) an exponent of hoof? Really? So the fact that he was pleased that we hoofed a bit, (not all game or even the majority of the game, but just a bit) and states we were better than them on the ground shows he loves hoof. That is quite a stretch. We obviously aren't allowed to be pleased that we mixed up our approach a bit and tried a bit of variation.

Now, lets have a look at the other 'evidence' that you have quoted:

less faffing about with short passes

#1
This was in the context of us having crossed quicker and thereby created more chances, rather than playing one or two passes too many and the chance(s) disappearing. Again, quite a stretch to conclude that this shows the poster to be a 'hoof' worshipper.

I don't care if we have 70% of the ball or 30% of the ball as long as we still create chances.
#12
Please explain how this equates to 'hoof'.
Leicester City won the premier league only a couple of years ago and in many of their matches they had significantly less possession than the sides they beat. How many games did they lose that season? They often played a counter attacking style and a notable side to their play was how quickly and efficiently they moved the ball forwards.
I can only conclude that you must hate the fact that we beat Brentford because, after all, we only had 34% possession, created numerous chances and scored 3 goals away from home.


When I played Sunday pub league yonks ago we did this, it can be very effective.
#16
Now lets look at the full post from which this very short and selective extract has been taken :

"We saw it last night for the 3rd goal and could do it more often instead of all this less successful over playing and floated ball to nowhere stuff. Make progress down the channels, early ball in hard, fast and on the deck to a player running in around the penalty spot.
If its delivered well our player can hit it first time and just has to choose which side to put it, keeper can't come for it and does well to save it if on target and hit firmly.
Doesn't need Messi levels of skill and its not hoof its intelligent low/moderate skill football.
When I played Sunday pub league yonks ago we did this, it can be very effective."

Really proves your point doesn't it...………….or perhaps not.


Taking a chance on an earlier ball rather than trying to get the perfect pass.
#26

He was agreeing with the original poster when he noted that against Brentford we seemed to get our crosses in a bit earlier and had a degree of success in doing so.
This equates to hoof?? Explanation please.


Yes, I have asked for examples. You have provided none. I think it is you who wriggles.
 
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But we got more points against Brentford than Stoke/Derby/Pigs combined?

Granted it didn't look as good but we don't get awarded owt for presentation.

In fact that’s precisely what you do get. The teams playing the right way (a favourite phrase of our Manager, much to the chagrin of the long punt brigade who pretend not to hear it) not only please aesthetically but also win games, points and trophies. Yes, I’ve heard of Wimbledon and Leicester, those notable drops in the ocean.

It’s remarkable how the same old names leap to the cause of grotesque anti-football whilst at the same time claiming it to be something better. A sort of S2 football alchemy whereby base hoofitanope turns into the beautiful game. Fortunately I see them coming and am well able to observe the Emperor is wearing no clothes but openly displaying his grossly unattractive bollocks.
 



That post was actually made after my initial reply to you, but in any case it does not prove your imaginary point. You've taken the first part of the sentence and conveniently ignored that last part.

The full sentence was "But in essence it was pleasing that we hoofed a bit but we're also better than them on the ground."

Does that show that the poster is (to use your terms) an exponent of hoof? Really? So the fact that he was pleased that we hoofed a bit, (not all game or even the majority of the game, but just a bit) and states we were better than them on the ground shows he loves hoof. That is quite a stretch. We obviously aren't allowed to be pleased that we mixed up our approach a bit and tried a bit of variation.

Now, lets have a look at the other 'evidence' that you have quoted:

less faffing about with short passes

#1
This was in the context of us having crossed quicker and thereby created more chances, rather than playing one or two passes too many and the chance(s) disappearing. Again, quite a stretch to conclude that this shows the poster to be a 'hoof' worshipper.

I don't care if we have 70% of the ball or 30% of the ball as long as we still create chances.
#12
Please explain how this equates to 'hoof'.
Leicester City won the premier league only a couple of years ago and in many of their matches they had significantly less possession than the sides they beat. How many games did they lose that season? They often played a counter attacking style and a notable side to their play was how quickly and efficiently they moved the ball forwards.
I can only conclude that you must hate the fact that we beat Brentford because, after all, we only had 34% possession, created numerous chances and scored 3 goals away from home.


When I played Sunday pub league yonks ago we did this, it can be very effective.
#16
Now lets look at the full post from which this very short and selective extract has been taken :

"We saw it last night for the 3rd goal and could do it more often instead of all this less successful over playing and floated ball to nowhere stuff. Make progress down the channels, early ball in hard, fast and on the deck to a player running in around the penalty spot.
If its delivered well our player can hit it first time and just has to choose which side to put it, keeper can't come for it and does well to save it if on target and hit firmly.
Doesn't need Messi levels of skill and its not hoof its intelligent low/moderate skill football.
When I played Sunday pub league yonks ago we did this, it can be very effective."

Really proves your point doesn't it...………….or perhaps not.


Taking a chance on an earlier ball rather than trying to get the perfect pass.
#26

He was agreeing with the original poster when he noted that against Brentford we seemed to get our crosses in a bit earlier and had a degree of success in doing so.
This equates to hoof?? Explanation please.


Yes, I have asked for examples. You have provided none. I think it is you who wriggles.

It would display a great deal more intellectual integrity if you stopped trying to turn circles into squares and admit, like your colleagues, that proper football is not to the S2 taste and we exist alongside devotees of less-skilled endeavour played by pub teams and who like a bit of hoof. I would vehemently disagree with such a wretched, long-discredited philosophy but at least true colours would be visible.

Alternatively you can persist with the sophistry and pretend that no-one has said any such thing.

Hoofers, you have every right to ‘enjoy’ your preferred ‘style’ of ‘football’ however redundant and discredited it might be in the civilised world, but please have the decency to stop pretending it’s anything other than what it is.

Be loud; Be Proud; Kick it Long; Kick it Hard; Kick it High.
 
It would display a great deal more intellectual integrity if you stopped trying to turn circles into squares and admit, like your colleagues, that proper football is not to the S2 taste and we exist alongside devotees of less-skilled endeavour played by pub teams and who like a bit of hoof. I would vehemently disagree with such a wretched, long-discredited philosophy but at least true colours would be visible.

Alternatively you can persist with the sophistry and pretend that no-one has said any such thing.

Hoofers, you have every right to ‘enjoy’ your preferred ‘style’ of ‘football’ however redundant and discredited it might be in the civilised world, but please have the decency to stop pretending it’s anything other than what it is.

Be loud; Be Proud; Kick it Long; Kick it Hard; Kick it High.

I am assume you are pleased to see see England getting to the semi finals of the Nations League playing the right way under the progressive methods of Gareth Southgate with a multi racial team, an example to the world and something I am sure you will welcome and get behind for all the reasons you expouse on this forum.

Meanwhile The Republic of Ireland under hoofball O’Neill with its distressing majority white team were relegated.

Victory for the good guys I am sure you will agree.
 
I am assume you are pleased to see see England getting to the semi finals of the Nations League playing the right way under the progressive methods of Gareth Southgate with a multi racial team, an example to the world and something I am sure you will welcome and get behind for all the reasons you expouse on this forum.

Meanwhile The Republic of Ireland under hoofball O’Neill with its distressing majority white team were relegated.

Victory for the good guys I am sure you will agree.

I am enraptured by the Nations League. For me, it is second only to the Johnstone’s Paint Pot Trophy.
 
It would display a great deal more intellectual integrity if you stopped trying to turn circles into squares and admit, like your colleagues, that proper football is not to the S2 taste and we exist alongside devotees of less-skilled endeavour played by pub teams and who like a bit of hoof. I would vehemently disagree with such a wretched, long-discredited philosophy but at least true colours would be visible.

Alternatively you can persist with the sophistry and pretend that no-one has said any such thing.

Hoofers, you have every right to ‘enjoy’ your preferred ‘style’ of ‘football’ however redundant and discredited it might be in the civilised world, but please have the decency to stop pretending it’s anything other than what it is.

Be loud; Be Proud; Kick it Long; Kick it Hard; Kick it High.


As usual, you do not answer any points put to you. I asked you to come up with examples from this thread of posters showing that they were crying out for hoof. You have provided none. Not a single one. On the other hand, I have answered quite directly everything that you have put to me.

The sophistry and lack of any intellectual integrity is all yours. You should go into politics. You'd go far.
 
Absolutely right. That’s two of us making it up for no apparent reason.

I quote:

"Could you please show me an example of those cries for hoof on this thread please?"
I'm still waiting. And I will have to wait until eternity because I don't think anyone on this thread is 'crying out for hoof'.

As for exclamations from spectators on the kop, I would suggest that if you go onto any kop in the country, you will hear cries for a more direct approach when things are going against whichever the relevant team happens to be.
 
I agree. I was actually reluctant to include your comment because I am well aware of your general views. They are invariably sensible and I usually agree with them. However, having been asked for examples, it would have been disingenuous of me not to include those that appeared relevant, simply because of the identity of the commentator.

The fact is we are playing the best football since the Harris days. It's a joy to watch. Yet every time we lower our very high standards for a few games you can guarantee that, instead of accepting that even the very best footballers are only human and will play poorly from time to time and that's football, some of our fans immediately clamour for Plan B or 'mix it up' or other such euphemisms, actually meaning play more long balls. That's the legacy of the Bassett years. We have people specifically advocating the adoption of low-skilled pub football. It is a philosophy of despair.

#therightway.

So you decided to include the first half of a sentence to try and distort the sense of what Bayingblade was saying, because to have included the whole sentence would not have supported your point.

I would have thought that trying to give the impression that the poster was saying something different to what he was really saying was, well just a bit disingenuous.

Other terms that someone on here has used (I wonder who?) like sophistry and lack of intellectual integrity also spring to mind.
 
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(reply to oldblade #51)

Hardly a desperate cry to go back to 'Hoofball' from 20,000 Blades though is it? ;)

Incidentally our average possession is 53.4% and we're 5th

Brentford have an average possession of 59.9% and are 18th :(
 
It would display a great deal more intellectual integrity if you stopped trying to turn circles into squares and admit, like your colleagues, that proper football is not to the S2 taste and we exist alongside devotees of less-skilled endeavour played by pub teams and who like a bit of hoof. I would vehemently disagree with such a wretched, long-discredited philosophy but at least true colours would be visible.

Alternatively you can persist with the sophistry and pretend that no-one has said any such thing.

Hoofers, you have every right to ‘enjoy’ your preferred ‘style’ of ‘football’ however redundant and discredited it might be in the civilised world, but please have the decency to stop pretending it’s anything other than what it is.

Be loud; Be Proud; Kick it Long; Kick it Hard; Kick it High.
Disagree here Pinchy. In my experience of listening and reading what people say, I would say that the vast majority, borderline all, absolutely love the football United play. There are those who point out it can be a little over elaborate sometimes (me included) but this in no way demonstrates a desire to return to the style Bassett and Warnock played. Although in both cases there were times when decent football was displayed.

I would go even further and say, even in the 3rd division, most teams tried to pass the ball and very few these days play a long ball game. Bolton and Cardiff most recently are the only ones I can recall but even Bolton try to pass the ball sometimes. They're shit at it, but they try.
 
I’ve seen many comments about our lack of danger from the wings due to poor crossing.

However a factor is the players in the box receiving the cross.

A normal floated cross tends to be ineffective because we lack height and physicality in the box.

When we had James Hanson the standard floated cross became dangerous because opposition defenders struggled with Hanson’s height and nuisance value.

Sharp prettt small and Clarke and McGoldrick aren’t going to win headers against tough no nonsense defenders.

So we generally can only gain success from early crosses hit hard and low into the box.
 
After 50 odd years of faithful support i finally had enough and stopped going under Adkins reign,there seemed to be no hope for our great club to ever rise again.The appointment of Wilder has resurrected us and i have returned to the fold,the joy is more about our style of play which in turn has resulted in us getting back to the championship.We do have weaknesses,and have the odd poor performance,but please beware and remember where we were and how far we have come,no hoofball,just exciting,incisive and inventive football,our club is on the rise again,just enjoy it,warts and all !!!
 

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