Not waving but drowning…

[Bladeulike]

It’s enough already. We are in the wrong division and we are being humiliated, regularly, completely and utterly.

I can’t understand the calls for replacing Heckingbottom. Swap him with with Guardiola for the rest of the season and City would still win the league and we would still be relegated. Silk purses and sows’ ears is the obvious analogy.

What was the mistake we made? hanging on to players who expressly wanted to leave? Think of the striking scumbag Ramsdale and forget that as a valid argument. We are the epitome of victims of our own success. Perennial overachievers in the Championship and whipping boys in the Prem. it’s not time for a change of manager, it’s time for a change of perspective about what constitutes success for a team of our limited financial resources. Sacking Hecky and bringing in Wilder has no logic or rationale apart from an emotional reaction based on sentimental claptrap.

We will probably get regularly promoted and regularly relegated as long as this ridiculously gilded pantomime of a Premiership continues. Hecky seems a decent guy and a good manager. Maybe, just maybe, if we stick with him and his proven track record, combined with the additional resources gained from our forays into the Prem we can build a team based on a solid, consistent platform of which we can be proud……. and calm the fuck down.

 

[Tony_Kaufman]

The majority of fans who want rid of Hecky know that sacking and replacing him will still result in relegation. I've not read anything from anyone, anywhere suggesting that sacking Hecky will see us stay up. What the majority of fans who want rid of Hecky want is to see some fight and pride as we go down. To resemble a football team, to see some recognisable tactics, some shots on targets, some goals (win or lose), some battle, to keep possession for longer than 3 seconds, to see us complete 3 passes, hell 2 passes would be an improvement.

The majority who want Hecky gone are asking why keep him to take us back up again if this is the dog shit that's going to be served up again in two seasons. If the goal is to get up to the Premier League and stay in the Premier League then Hecky has proven over this, and his caretaker time in charge last time that he isn't the man. But Tony, his points per game last time after Wilder left was better than Wilder's. Yes it was, but only because we started picking up more points AFTER relegation was confirmed. He was equally as woeful before that.

Please start realising that we ALL know that sacking and replacing Hecky will not save us from relegation. It's the overall picture that CAN be improved. Performances CAN improve by replacing him. Results CAN improve with another manager even if they're not enough.

If we played a team and had 40/60% possession in their favour, with 8 shots on goal 5 on target to their 12 and 8 and lost 2-1, I could take that. At least we competed, kept possession, created chances, scored and took the game to them. What are we seeing right now every game. 30/70% or 25/75% possession in their favour week in, week out, with 8 shots on goal 2 on target (if we're lucky), to their 22 shots and 14 on target and losing 2-0 or 3-0 every week with the occasional goal every other game. Screw that. No more. Enough is enough.

Where's the pride? Where's the bottle? Where's the fight? Where's the dignity? That's what I want. I can take losing. Play well and lose, I'll take that. Play badly and winning annoys me. Play badly every week and keep winning annoys me more as there are problems not being addressed that are being ignored because of results. When the results dry up then the problems are suddenly addressed as if they were never there.

We have too many fans who blindly ignore problems so long as we're winning. Fleck, Norwood and Stevens all performing consistently at 4/10 for large periods of last season, but when fans pointed this out they were told to shut up and stop being negative, as we won those games, so stop moaning and picking faults. "Have some respect for what they did X number of seasons ago, but we don't want Wilder back as we shouldn't look to the past." Oh the irony!

 

[Bladeulike]

The majority of fans who want rid of Hecky know that sacking and replacing him will still result in relegation. I've not read anything from anyone, anywhere suggesting that sacking Hecky will see us stay up. What the majority of fans who want rid of Hecky want is to see some fight and pride as we go down. To resemble a football team, to see some recognisable tactics, some shots on targets, some goals (win or lose), some battle, to keep possession for longer than 3 seconds, to see us complete 3 passes, hell 2 passes would be an improvement.

The majority who want Hecky gone are asking why keep him to take us back up again if this is the dog shit that's going to be served up again in two seasons. If the goal is to get up to the Premier League and stay in the Premier League then Hecky has proven over this, and his caretaker time in charge last time that he isn't the man. But Tony, his points per game last time after Wilder left was better than Wilder's. Yes it was, but only because we started picking up more points AFTER relegation was confirmed. He was equally as woeful before that.

Please start realising that we ALL know that sacking and replacing Hecky will not save us from relegation. It's the overall picture that CAN be improved. Performances CAN improve by replacing him. Results CAN improve with another manager even if they're not enough.

If we played a team and had 40/60% possession in their favour, with 8 shots on goal 5 on target to their 12 and 8 and lost 2-1, I could take that. At least we competed, kept possession, created chances, scored and took the game to them. What are we seeing right now every game. 30/70% or 25/75% possession in their favour week in, week out, with 8 shots on goal 2 on target (if we're lucky), to their 22 shots and 14 on target and losing 2-0 or 3-0 every week with the occasional goal every other game. Screw that. No more. Enough is enough.

Where's the pride? Where's the bottle? Where's the fight? Where's the dignity?

All very fair points. I accept that there are, of course, better managers than Heckingbottom. There are also lots of better teams they could go to so it isn’t as though we are fishing in a big pond. I think the bottle, fight and dignity have been quickly crushed out of us because the Prem is increasingly becoming an exclusive club that we simply can’t afford to belong to (apart from the occasional visitors’ pass). We obviously just aren’t good enough and the squad needs major and ongoing reconstruction.

We tried the experiment of Jokanovic and it was hopeless. I just think that if Wilder is the answer then it’s a bloody stupid question. I agree that our current performances are woeful but the fact is that we are only 10 games on from a fabulous promotion season with a manager that inherited a toxic situation and a budget slightly south of fuck all. I think he deserves at least until January to sort it out.

 

[Bell4]

It’s enough already. We are in the wrong division and we are being humiliated, regularly, completely and utterly.

I can’t understand the calls for replacing Heckingbottom. Swap him with with Guardiola for the rest of the season and City would still win the league and we would still be relegated. Silk purses and sows’ ears is the obvious analogy.

What was the mistake we made? hanging on to players who expressly wanted to leave? Think of the striking scumbag Ramsdale and forget that as a valid argument. We are the epitome of victims of our own success. Perennial overachievers in the Championship and whipping boys in the Prem. it’s not time for a change of manager, it’s time for a change of perspective about what constitutes success for a team of our limited financial resources. Sacking Hecky and bringing in Wilder has no logic or rationale apart from an emotional reaction based on sentimental claptrap.

We will probably get regularly promoted and regularly relegated as long as this ridiculously gilded pantomime of a Premiership continues. Hecky seems a decent guy and a good manager. Maybe, just maybe, if we stick with him and his proven track record, combined with the additional resources gained from our forays into the Prem we can build a team based on a solid, consistent platform of which we can be proud……. and calm the fuck down.

Great post

Thanks

 

[Big Hitter]

Please start realising that we ALL know that sacking and replacing Hecky will not save us from relegation. It's the overall picture that CAN be improved. Performances CAN improve by replacing him. Results CAN improve with another manager even if they're not enough.

Yes BUT putting B instead of A as Manager does not automatically get better results. You will still have the same players- will they improve under B ? Will they combine better? Will they overnight become Pele's and Charlton's? What systems will improve our performances.?

 

[Houston_Blade]

We all accept we’re not good enough to compete. What I can’t accept is the fact that the board gave up before the season started, this is now being aped by the manager and the players.

I’m lucky, I can turn the TV off. If I were paying money to travel and watch these performances every week I’d be pissed off.

 

[Tony_Kaufman]

Yes BUT putting B instead of A as Manager does not automatically get better results. You will still have the same players- will they improve under B ? Will they combine better? Will they overnight become Pele's and Charlton's? What systems will improve our performances.?

Jesus Christ, I never said it would guarantee better results, hence the opening gambit where I clearly said that changing manager would still result in relegation. Please read the post and understand it before you start picking it apart. No offence.

The bigger question for me is that if we do change manager can things get any worse on match days? Let's say we do replace Hecky and the new manager gets 0 points from the first 5 games in charge. Do we then say we were wrong to sack Hecky as he got 1 from 10, as if that makes him a football genius in comparison? It's the performances that need to improve before the results.

 

[knowsnowt]

It’s enough already. We are in the wrong division and we are being humiliated, regularly, completely and utterly.

I can’t understand the calls for replacing Heckingbottom. Swap him with with Guardiola for the rest of the season and City would still win the league and we would still be relegated. Silk purses and sows’ ears is the obvious analogy.

What was the mistake we made? hanging on to players who expressly wanted to leave? Think of the striking scumbag Ramsdale and forget that as a valid argument. We are the epitome of victims of our own success. Perennial overachievers in the Championship and whipping boys in the Prem. it’s not time for a change of manager, it’s time for a change of perspective about what constitutes success for a team of our limited financial resources. Sacking Hecky and bringing in Wilder has no logic or rationale apart from an emotional reaction based on sentimental claptrap.

We will probably get regularly promoted and regularly relegated as long as this ridiculously gilded pantomime of a Premiership continues. Hecky seems a decent guy and a good manager. Maybe, just maybe, if we stick with him and his proven track record, combined with the additional resources gained from our forays into the Prem we can build a team based on a solid, consistent platform of which we can be proud……. and calm the fuck down.

I like you. And i dont say that casually, to men.

 

[Gaini Blade]

I like you. And i dont say that casually, to men.

Sorry, but a certain Dick Emery character popped up in my head when I read that.

 

[Rodley]

It’s enough already. We are in the wrong division and we are being humiliated, regularly, completely and utterly.

I can’t understand the calls for replacing Heckingbottom. Swap him with with Guardiola for the rest of the season and City would still win the league and we would still be relegated. Silk purses and sows’ ears is the obvious analogy.

Hecky ought to get in contact with the Luton manager and ask him for some silk purse making tips.

 

[Tezza1889]

Sorry, but a certain Dick Emery character popped up in my head when I read that.

Was thinking that tbh

 

[ATL Recs]

It’s enough already. We are in the wrong division and we are being humiliated, regularly, completely and utterly.

I can’t understand the calls for replacing Heckingbottom. Swap him with with Guardiola for the rest of the season and City would still win the league and we would still be relegated. Silk purses and sows’ ears is the obvious analogy.

What was the mistake we made? hanging on to players who expressly wanted to leave? Think of the striking scumbag Ramsdale and forget that as a valid argument. We are the epitome of victims of our own success. Perennial overachievers in the Championship and whipping boys in the Prem. it’s not time for a change of manager, it’s time for a change of perspective about what constitutes success for a team of our limited financial resources. Sacking Hecky and bringing in Wilder has no logic or rationale apart from an emotional reaction based on sentimental claptrap.

We will probably get regularly promoted and regularly relegated as long as this ridiculously gilded pantomime of a Premiership continues. Hecky seems a decent guy and a good manager. Maybe, just maybe, if we stick with him and his proven track record, combined with the additional resources gained from our forays into the Prem we can build a team based on a solid, consistent platform of which we can be proud……. and calm the fuck down.

We’d get relegated but with a bit f up ride and 100% City wouldn’t win the league

 

[ATL Recs]

We’d get relegated but with a bit f up ride and 100% City wouldn’t win the league

Pride

 

[S64 Blade]

I’m pretty sure if Pep was the manager we’d have more than a point. Wouldn’t exactly be beyond the realms of possibilities for us to be on more points than Bournemouth, would it?

 

[Shakespeare blade]

It’s enough already. We are in the wrong division and we are being humiliated, regularly, completely and utterly.

I can’t understand the calls for replacing Heckingbottom. Swap him with with Guardiola for the rest of the season and City would still win the league and we would still be relegated. Silk purses and sows’ ears is the obvious analogy.

What was the mistake we made? hanging on to players who expressly wanted to leave? Think of the striking scumbag Ramsdale and forget that as a valid argument. We are the epitome of victims of our own success. Perennial overachievers in the Championship and whipping boys in the Prem. it’s not time for a change of manager, it’s time for a change of perspective about what constitutes success for a team of our limited financial resources. Sacking Hecky and bringing in Wilder has no logic or rationale apart from an emotional reaction based on sentimental claptrap.

We will probably get regularly promoted and regularly relegated as long as this ridiculously gilded pantomime of a Premiership continues. Hecky seems a decent guy and a good manager. Maybe, just maybe, if we stick with him and his proven track record, combined with the additional resources gained from our forays into the Prem we can build a team based on a solid, consistent platform of which we can be proud……. and calm the fuck down.

Not sure what resources you’re referring to, Bettis already stated that we will only have to sell 1 player on relegation, so seems clear no money left already, Prince seems determined to keep the club at whatever the cost or lack off, not sure why keeping hecky improves our chances next year, he’ll have less than what he has now and can’t get anything out of this group, when does that point drop, if we lose to Wolves which we will, Bournemouth, Burnley or Luton?
I can’t understand the lack of fight from fellow blades, totally excepting the state of our club & I blame all from owner, directors, senior management to middle management we are an embarrassment currently and I will never except this from my team

 

[Shakespeare blade]

Yes BUT putting B instead of A as Manager does not automatically get better results. You will still have the same players- will they improve under B ? Will they combine better? Will they overnight become Pele's and Charlton's? What systems will improve our performances.?

At least we may have a system as currently there isn’t one

 

[straight_outta_compton]

We're dead in the water this season, but think we should use the opportunity to build a fresh side with new ideas.

Sorry to say it, but that needs a change of manager (not wilder).

There are several decent players in the side who are decent lower-prem level, including wes, baldock, anel, slimane, and Bogle (if he finds his mojo again). Really can't decide about Brewster: he seems good on the ball and isn't afraid to shoot etc, but his positional play (especially off the ball) is terrible!

Until Jan, we're stuck with the current players, so assuming we get a new manager, they've got to somehow build a formation out of what's available. For example, lack of sufficient central defenders means we need to play 4 at the back.

Then we need a strong strategy. If we're going to play a long-ball counterattack then we need to get two strikers who can hold the ball up and dominate in the air. Mcburnie fits the bill for one, and perhaps train osula to be the 2nd.

Or if we're going to counterattack with quick breaks, we need dribblers and much better movement up front to make space for runners. Bogle struggles defensively, but last season looked really good breaking down the right and taking on defenders. Could he be repurposed into a more attacking midfielder? (In the same way that berge was always more effective higher up the pitch?)

Sorry for droning on, and appreciate there's no easy solution, but we're definitely lacking strong strategy and matching to players available.

Hoping a new manager can bring in a few different ideas, like wilder did with overlapping centrebacks.

Utb!

The destination is fixed, but let's get something out of the journey, even if it's to strip out the deadwood (fleck, Osbourn) and give strong experience to the youngsters

 

[shorehamview]

We need a change of philosophy and a far tougher fitness regime. One that will ensure players aren’t breathing out of their arses by the 60th minute. And the philosophy needs to be that if we go down, we go down fighting. Not whimpering.

I’d rather see us down to ten men because someone’s clattered the opposition so hard they’ll be feeling it a fortnight later rather than letting them float past us. Kick someone. Put that tricky winger in the fucking John Street Stand. Stand your ground, like you’ve got some pride in your job and the shirt you’re wearing. Be a bit more Furious George, and a bit less Julian Clary.

And don’t stop. As a wise man once said, “You’ve gotta fucking die to get three points.” Not roll on your back and have your tummy tickled, or pull your shorts down for a good dry bumming.

 

[Big Hitter]

Jesus Christ, I never said it would guarantee better results, hence the opening gambit where I clearly said that changing manager would still result in relegation. Please read the post and understand it before you start picking it apart. No offence.

The bigger question for me is that if we do change manager can things get any worse on match days? Let's say we do replace Hecky and the new manager gets 0 points from the first 5 games in charge. Do we then say we were wrong to sack Hecky as he got 1 from 10, as if that makes him a football genius in comparison? It's the performances that need to improve before the results.

Tony - with respect- you said " Performances will improve by replacing the Manager." Results will improve....etc" Bald statements - I am just asking how.???
You read your post again.

 

[Tony_Kaufman]

Tony - with respect- you said " Performances will improve by replacing the Manager." Results will improve....etc" Bald statements - I am just asking how.???
You read your post again.

Because I'm sure another manager can get us to pass a football, retain possession, man mark properly, move off the ball, create the occassional chance on goal. You know, football basics that children's football teams can do. A new manager certainly can't make us any worse.

As for results improving, I'm not suggesting that we will suddenly start winning every week. But I'm sure another manager can get this team to win the occassional match or draw some matches. They won't do enough of these to keep us up, but at least we'll get some points on the board. How you ask? By passing a football better, retaining possession better, man marking properly, moving off the ball, creating the occassional chance on goal. You know, football basics that children's football teams can do.

That's my point. We're not doing the fundamental basics and that can improve if we bring in a manager to implement them. We won't stay up regardless of who is in charge, but we can't get any worse. We're lower than rock bottom. Any new manager CAN improve our performances regardless of the outcome of the end of 90 minutes, and that's all I ask. To see some organisation, to see them doing the basics, to see some fight. To see us go down fighting. Anything is better than this. Hecky needs to go.

 

[Bladeulike]

.

Not sure what resources you’re referring to, Bettis already stated that we will only have to sell 1 player on relegation, so seems clear no money left already, Prince seems determined to keep the club at whatever the cost or lack off, not sure why keeping hecky improves our chances next year, he’ll have less than what he has now and can’t get anything out of this group, when does that point drop, if we lose to Wolves which we will, Bournemouth, Burnley or Luton?
I can’t understand the lack of fight from fellow blades, totally excepting the state of our club & I blame all from owner, directors, senior management to middle management we are an embarrassment currently and I will never except this from my team

the resources I was referring to is that, had we not been promoted, then we would still have lost Berge and Ilimane and not been able to attract or afford any decent replacements. At least we are bottom of the Prem not the Championship. Due to promotion we secured Hamer, Archer (although still not entirely sure on what basis), Souza, Slimane, McAtee etc so definite tangible resources and advantage in getting to the Prem. I completely agree what we have at the moment is a complete shit show and that is largely down to poor management and tactics. It’s not a ‘lack of fight’ from me -I am as pissed off as everyone else. It’s just that I don’t agree the solution is binning off the manager and his team at this point. I think what we have here is a case study of the Prem being the worst possible testing ground for a new set of players.

We are definitely getting relegated so accepting that inevitability isn’t about giving up. It’s about not knee jerking when we all know Hecky was dealt the worst possible hand to launch a campaign in the Prem. it’s about looking forward and building a sustainable squad of younger players on contracts and reducing the reliance on ageing stalwarts. Let’s accept the new reality that hovering between the Championship and the Prem is our level and that is a damn sight better than the wilderness years many of us endured in the third and fourth divisions. My God, we would have given our right arms to be in this position today. See how the next round of games go against clubs that aren’t populated with £105 million players and give Hecky an opportunity to show he has the ability to manage through this. It’s his first major failure in his tenure but at least he got us to the Prem before it happened. Lets cut him some slack at least until January.

 

[Come from away]

.

the resources I was referring to is that, had we not been promoted, then we would still have lost Berge and Ilimane and not been able to attract or afford any decent replacements. At least we are bottom of the Prem not the Championship. Due to promotion we secured Hamer, Archer (although still not entirely sure on what basis), Souza, Slimane, McAtee etc so definite tangible resources and advantage in getting to the Prem. I completely agree what we have at the moment is a complete shit show and that is largely down to poor management and tactics. It’s not a ‘lack of fight’ from me -I am as pissed off as everyone else. It’s just that I don’t agree the solution is binning off the manager and his team at this point. I think what we have here is a case study of the Prem being the worst possible testing ground for a new set of players.

We are definitely getting relegated so accepting that inevitability isn’t about giving up. It’s about not knee jerking when we all know Hecky was dealt the worst possible hand to launch a campaign in the Prem. it’s about looking forward and building a sustainable squad of younger players on contracts and reducing the reliance on ageing stalwarts. Let’s accept the new reality that hovering between the Championship and the Prem is our level and that is a damn sight better than the wilderness years many of us endured in the third and fourth divisions. My God, we would have given our right arms to be in this position today. See how the next round of games go against clubs that aren’t populated with £105 million players and give Hecky an opportunity to show he has the ability to manage through this. It’s his first major failure in his tenure but at least he got us to the Prem before it happened. Lets cut him some slack at least until January.

His first major failure? Where is his record of major successes?

 

[Davalon]

Instill a bit more fight, maybe not definitely, but divide the fanbase even more, still go down and at best need a new manager in the summer, if not before.

No-one likes getting beat every week and especially heavily so but I can't help but think a few need to look at the bigger picture and maybe even strap on their big boy pants and stop acting like spoilt brats.

 

[BigBed]

I hope Hecky has taken them all out on the piss today, a bit of team building, and then tell the cunts they're not getting paid this month!

 

[Davalon]

I hope Hecky has taken them all out on the piss today, a bit of team building, and then tell the cunts they're not getting paid this month!

What about those that don't drink for religious reasons or otherwise?

 

[shorehamview]

What about those that don't drink for religious reasons or otherwise?

They can have a J20 and a go in the ball pit. Or a nice cup of tea and a bun.

 

[chesblade]

I think anyone coming up are going to struggle unless you have money behind you. The benches that prem clubs have would probably be a 1st team to a promoted club. Saudi money is making things worse because they are paying ridiculous money to players not getting in teams, so them teams are making more money to spend on better players. It is becoming a closed shop to teams who have been up there a while. All championship teams can do is come and take the money. Will be interesting to see how Leicester go on when they get back up

 

[BigBed]

What about those that don't drink for religious reasons or otherwise?

Force it down them, they need to be team players!!

 

[blade too long]

It’s enough already. We are in the wrong division and we are being humiliated, regularly, completely and u

we have lost 1 by 8 and 1 by 5 to two of the bigger sides of europe considering our choices due to injuries we can be amazed we lost only to late goals to spurs man u and man city
theres only liverpool we havent played

 

[Big Hitter]

Because I'm sure another manager can get us to pass a football, retain possession, man mark properly, move off the ball, create the occassional chance on goal. You know, football basics that children's football teams can do. A new manager certainly can't make us any worse.

As for results improving, I'm not suggesting that we will suddenly start winning every week. But I'm sure another manager can get this team to win the occassional match or draw some matches. They won't do enough of these to keep us up, but at least we'll get some points on the board. How you ask? By passing a football better, retaining possession better, man marking properly, moving off the ball, creating the occassional chance on goal. You know, football basics that children's football teams can do.

That's my point. We're not doing the fundamental basics and that can improve if we bring in a manager to implement them. We won't stay up regardless of who is in charge, but we can't get any worse. We're lower than rock bottom. Any new manager CAN improve our performances regardless of the outcome of the end of 90 minutes, and that's all I ask. To see some organisation, to see them doing the basics, to see some fight. To see us go down fighting. Anything is better than this. Hecky needs to go.

Tony - we won the "occasional match "- whats your take now.?