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Gozza

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I hate to say it but he really looks past it, for the prem at least. It's a real shame as he was one of the main reasons we got promoted in the first place.
Looked very poor against West Brom and that didn't change yesterday. He came on as we were starting to get on the front foot. Replaced our best midfielder of the game, which in itself is a very worrying thing to say.
His greatest asset is his passing and his set piece delivery, both were shocking yesterday his first involvement was a free kick which went straight to Schmeichel. He got dispossessed every time he had the ball.
It might sound ridiculous but I honestly think we would've been better with 10 men on the pitch. He just kept conceding the ball to them so we just had to keep resetting. At least someone else would've been on set pieces too.
That's the concern though, because he still needs to play! We have a midfield 3 and only 4 to choose from currently and you need fresh legs at some point in the game.
So luckily we also have Ampadu to come back who luckily can play in midfield too.
To finish on, as crazy as it sounds, give Bogle a go in midfield?! We have no one else to choose from. From what I've heard he's a decent player and isn't going to replace Baldock anytime soon.
 

Bladesman

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His ping has certainly gone AWOL these days.
 

Gozza

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His ping has certainly gone AWOL these days.
It's such a shame. Maybe his confidence was shattered after he felt for all his work last year, he was going to be replaced by Berge or just another year older?
 

bartman

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It's such a shame. Maybe his confidence was shattered after he felt for all his work last year, he was going to be replaced by Berge or just another year older?
He isnt athletic enough or physical enough to last the pace in the top league.

He is 29 so he isnt too old , just maybe not good enough anymore to play at the top level
 

bladesince64

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I agree and its inexplicable how far downhill our midfield has gone. But we have to try some thing different.

I have said before on here that I wonder if the reason Lundstram is having a strop is because hes been the one to lose his place to accomodate Berge in the midfield (and for me Berge has been very poor in a lot of games). Perhaps also Lundstram is looking for an improved contract as Berge will probably be on top dollar.

The problems we have currently are primarily in midfield. We dont have any ballwinners and nobody is capable of working box to box.

The second we turn over possession the defence is overrun because the midfielders saunter back and offer no protection to the backline.

I was praying we would sign John Swift or someone similar who can put a foot in and also get up and down the pitch.

Our midfield is non-existent. Get some new blood in who want to bust a gut for the shirt.

If thats Bogle or Lowe or Osborn or loans then so be it.

Weve nowt to lose now.
 

Keef Chedwyn

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How can you go from 70 yard pings with swazz to being a scared little sheep who can't get a corner past the near post?

Summat's not reyt. Maybe another one who's fucked it off because Berge might take his job?
 

Gozza

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He isnt athletic enough or physical enough to last the pace in the top league.

He is 29 so he isnt too old , just maybe not good enough anymore to play at the top level
Yeah maybe he never really was. I think Wilder is an incredible motivator and in the past has got everything he possibly could out of a player, with the likes of, Dowell, Hogan, Cranie and Washington to name a few. So possibly that momentum that he gave Norwood ran out after lockdown? Because he's been worse this season, but even after lockdown he wasn't as good.
 

Gozza

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I agree and its inexplicable how far downhill our midfield has gone. But we have to try some thing different.

I have said before on here that I wonder if the reason Lundstram is having a strop is because hes been the one to lose his place to accomodate Berge in the midfield (and for me Berge has been very poor in a lot of games). Perhaps also Lundstram is looking for an improved contract as Berge will probably be on top dollar.

The problems we have currently are primarily in midfield. We dont have any ballwinners and nobody is capable of working box to box.

The second we turn over possession the defence is overrun because the midfielders saunter back and offer no protection to the backline.

I was praying we would sign John Swift or someone similar who can put a foot in and also get up and down the pitch.

Our midfield is non-existent. Get some new blood in who want to bust a gut for the shirt.

If thats Bogle or Lowe or Osborn or loans then so be it.

Weve nowt to lose now.
I think that's a great point mate. In fairness we all backed Berge up when he first joined saying, he needs to adjust to the system, he needs to increase his stamina and get used to the positional role. The problem is that it is almost a year since he joined. Now maybe not so much this year but over the year and a half I think it's very hard to make a case that Berge has been better than Lundstram, so with Lundstram not getting a similar contract, he's defiantly going to feel hard done by. Now that's saying a lot because I'm 1/4 quarter Norwegian so I'm always gonna be bias!
I think the thing which does my head in, is that with Berge physique. In another life he could've been a heavyweight boxer, 100kg and 6ft 5. Yet he doesn't have a single ounce of aggression. Instead of being a dominating Roy Keane of midfield that he could be, he's playing more like the BFG. Now he's already a young adult so unless for the rest of the season Wilder drills it into him to be more aggressive, then nothing will change, maybe that is a good thing. I think that then means he has to play further forward. When you think of your typical creative player they aren't expected to tackle so that could suit him. I know this sounds harsh but too many times have I seen him lose a tackle of the ball to someone under 5ft 9 who he could've brushed aside if he used any aggression. Still that doesn't solve our problem our having a ball winning midfielder.
 

true99blade

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Been saying it for ages, superb for us is his time here with players actually moving and being positive. Now that Fleck, Lunny, Berge are constantly stood motionless not showing for the ball or tracking runners when off the ball it’s making Norwood look like the sole problem because he’s constantly on the ball. The entire midfield has gone to pot. People will say Lunny looks like he doesn’t care. Fleck and Berge truly looked like they couldn’t be arsed yesterday.
 

FredZeppelin

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Bit unfair to pick him out. He's a talented footballer who thrived in our 'proper football' of the last couple of years.
Currently, we aren't playing like that. We aren't even using a midfield when we have possession as we just launch it aimlessly from back to front and hope/pray it falls for someone to pick up the second ball. How are the midfield supposed to gain any confidence? Norwood hasn't been any worse than Fleck or Lunny, but he gets signalled out because he's brave enough to try something different or actually get on the ball, instead of hiding.
It's fucking dire, mind-numbingly boring, and stupid. It's obvious that it's not going to work but we keep persisting with it.
Wilder is the one who should be answering the questions about the tactics but no one seems to want to ask him.
If the only answer he can give is "well, they all have much better players than we do", then, very reluctantly, it might be time he considered his position.
If this season's results had happened last season, I might have understood our position and 1 point return, but we were obviously good enough last season (granted with JOC), this season is just humiliating and I don't see it improving.

UTB
 

Gozza

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How can you go from 70 yard pings with swazz to being a scared little sheep who can't get a corner past the near post?

Summat's not reyt. Maybe another one who's fucked it off because Berge might take his job?
That what I thought originally. Berge joined us as a deep lying midfielder and since Norwood was approaching 30, I thought the club was looking to the future, I still stick by that conclusion, but I think as we all know it definitely didn't pay off...
 

Gozza

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Been saying it for ages, superb for us is his time here with players actually moving and being positive. Now that Fleck, Lunny, Berge are constantly stood motionless not showing for the ball or tracking runners when off the ball it’s making Norwood look like the sole problem because he’s constantly on the ball. The entire midfield has gone to pot. People will say Lunny looks like he doesn’t care. Fleck and Berge truly looked like they couldn’t be arsed yesterday.
I think Lundstram was our best midfielder yesterday. I get what you are saying about lack of midfield movement, but that's not to say that wasn't movement upfront from him to aim for. We had 3 lively strikers playing for us yesterday all relentlessly running. So considering how we are more favourable of the long ball now, you could argue it's suits Norwood more.
Going back to lack of movement in midfield, I think this has been one of the biggest declines this season. There are no 1-2s with the wingbacks which we especially saw in the 18-19 season. This is why we aren't scoring, we aren't creating enough chances. I know people are saying how we have created more chances than, Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal teams like that. But that was only said after the West Brom game who were shocking defensively. So we suddenly shot up the 'chance table'. My point is if that's not the case then why wasn't the stat shown before the game?
 

Gozza

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Bit unfair to pick him out. He's a talented footballer who thrived in our 'proper football' of the last couple of years.
Currently, we aren't playing like that. We aren't even using a midfield when we have possession as we just launch it aimlessly from back to front and hope/pray it falls for someone to pick up the second ball. How are the midfield supposed to gain any confidence? Norwood hasn't been any worse than Fleck or Lunny, but he gets signalled out because he's brave enough to try something different or actually get on the ball, instead of hiding.
It's fucking dire, mind-numbingly boring, and stupid. It's obvious that it's not going to work but we keep persisting with it.
Wilder is the one who should be answering the questions about the tactics but no one seems to want to ask him.
If the only answer he can give is "well, they all have much better players than we do", then, very reluctantly, it might be time he considered his position.
If this season's results had happened last season, I might have understood our position and 1 point return, but we were obviously good enough last season (granted with JOC), this season is just humiliating and I don't see it improving.

UTB
I understand and yeah, to be honest the whole of the midfield is quite average. Now the reason I singled him out is because although we didn't look like we were going to win, we looked more solid before he came on and for a few minutes looked once again on the front foot. At least with Lundstram we had a box to box midfielder who gave us energy.
Once Norwood came on we invited more pressure and gave the ball away more cheaply. The last place you want that happening is right in the middle of the pitch again an intense high pressing team, I know he wasn't the only one. I'm sure a lot of it is down to confidence, as he looked decent when we played Fulham earlier on in the season
 

FredZeppelin

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I understand and yeah, to be honest the whole of the midfield is quite average. Now the reason I singled him out is because although we didn't look like we were going to win, we looked more solid before he came on and for a few minutes looked once again on the front foot. At least with Lundstram we had a box to box midfielder who gave us energy.
Once Norwood came on we invited more pressure and gave the ball away more cheaply. The last place you want that happening is right in the middle of the pitch again an intense high pressing team, I know he wasn't the only one. I'm sure a lot of it is down to confidence, as he looked decent when we played Fulham earlier on in the season
Sorry pal, but we really didn't (imo!;)).
Leicester started far better than us and they could have been out of sight by half time. It was Men against Boys. The only reason we 'began to look more solid' was that Leicester were nowhere near as good in the second half, which in turn, made it look like we were doing better. We gave the ball away cheaply throughout the whole 90 mins and never looked much of a threat even in spite of that. I, personally thought Lunny was appalling throughout the whole 90, Berge had his worst game for us, and Fleck was indescribably bad. We got exactly what we deserved from the game as a whole. It just didn't look that way because of the lateness of the winner....and the complete ugly twat that scored it made it worse.

UTB
 

Gozza

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Sorry pal, but we really didn't (imo!;)).
Leicester started far better than us and they could have been out of sight by half time. It was Men against Boys. The only reason we 'began to look more solid' was that Leicester were nowhere near as good in the second half, which in turn, made it look like we were doing better. We gave the ball away cheaply throughout the whole 90 mins and never looked much of a threat even in spite of that. I, personally thought Lunny was appalling throughout the whole 90, Berge had his worst game for us, and Fleck was indescribably bad. We got exactly what we deserved from the game as a whole. It just didn't look that way because of the lateness of the winner....and the complete ugly twat that scored it made it worse.

UTB
It not promising signs is it... I think at least Lundstram offers us energy. The other worry is that Leicester had an off day and hit the post twice, so you thought it would be one of those days. It maybe shows how worrying times really are.
 

true99blade

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I think Lundstram was our best midfielder yesterday. I get what you are saying about lack of midfield movement, but that's not to say that wasn't movement upfront from him to aim for. We had 3 lively strikers playing for us yesterday all relentlessly running. So considering how we are more favourable of the long ball now, you could argue it's suits Norwood more.
Going back to lack of movement in midfield, I think this has been one of the biggest declines this season. There are no 1-2s with the wingbacks which we especially saw in the 18-19 season. This is why we aren't scoring, we aren't creating enough chances. I know people are saying how we have created more chances than, Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal teams like that. But that was only said after the West Brom game who were shocking defensively. So we suddenly shot up the 'chance table'. My point is if that's not the case then why wasn't the stat shown before the game?
I agree Lunny was probably our best midfielder, but that doesn’t say a lot considering how Fleck and Berge put themselves about. I strongly disagree that we had 3 lively strikers. McBurnie did very well considering the lack of movement everywhere. Contrary to belief Burke spends 95% of his time chasing defenders rather than making runs when we’re in possession.
Regardless of how much they run, if our entire midfield sits motionless and unable to win and retain the ball then it benefits nobody, especially Norwood who at least tries to take more responsibility than the others when he’s on the pitch. It evidently doesn’t suit him more if he sees little possession with only McBurnie’s bonce as the target. Not saying he’s tearing it up obviously, but it frustrates me that people just point the finger solely at him.
 

Harry's Game

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He is grossly out of form.. so are a few others. Some who cost a heck of a lot more than he did.

I think he is worth keeping for next season as if he finds his form again he would still be one of the best players in The Championship.
 

Gozza

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I agree Lunny was probably our best midfielder, but that doesn’t say a lot considering how Fleck and Berge put themselves about. I strongly disagree that we had 3 lively strikers. McBurnie did very well considering the lack of movement everywhere. Contrary to belief Burke spends 95% of his time chasing defenders rather than making runs when we’re in possession.
Regardless of how much they run, if our entire midfield sits motionless and unable to win and retain the ball then it benefits nobody, especially Norwood who at least tries to take more responsibility than the others when he’s on the pitch. It evidently doesn’t suit him more if he sees little possession with only McBurnie’s bonce as the target. Not saying he’s tearing it up obviously, but it frustrates me that people just point the finger solely at him.
I agree and that's why I said it was a worrying thing to say. I think it's questionable for our crossing as a team. McBurnie, luckily got his first goal yesterday. Proving his Ariel threat, his reward (from what I can remember) one more cross. Now I know everyone is obviously extremely low on confidence but if something works then keep doing it! Now I'm not saying if he had 5-6 chances we would've won but it gives us more time in their box, more of a boost too. So I really felt we missed a trick there, especially like Carragher they aren't a physical team and with more crosses we really could've put that to the test.
 

Gozza

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He is grossly out of form.. so are a few others. Some who cost a heck of a lot more than he did.

I think he is worth keeping for next season as if he finds his form again he would still be one of the best players in The Championship.
Yeah his 3 back-to-back promotions could come in handy.
 

Sheffsteel

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Norwood thrives in a team that has plenty of possession with attacking options on the wings.

This season we neither have much possession nor attack as much.
Norwood has always been a big poor defensively.....this season he’s been forced to defend.
 

GymClassHero

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I think Lundstram was our best midfielder yesterday. I get what you are saying about lack of midfield movement, but that's not to say that wasn't movement upfront from him to aim for. We had 3 lively strikers playing for us yesterday all relentlessly running. So considering how we are more favourable of the long ball now, you could argue it's suits Norwood more.
Going back to lack of movement in midfield, I think this has been one of the biggest declines this season. There are no 1-2s with the wingbacks which we especially saw in the 18-19 season. This is why we aren't scoring, we aren't creating enough chances. I know people are saying how we have created more chances than, Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal teams like that. But that was only said after the West Brom game who were shocking defensively. So we suddenly shot up the 'chance table'. My point is if that's not the case then why wasn't the stat shown before the game?
Why have we suddenly reverted to route one? Just can't understand it.
 

tincan

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For Norwoods ping to return he needs Fleck/Lunny to protect him and buy the time for his passing to work.
The opposition know this and so cut off his options. Our wingbacks are then out of position, and open to the counter. The opposition have players who command 5x the salary of ours so their technical ability gives them a further advantage.
The solution is different tactics, different players or back to the poverty of the championship record breakingly badly.
 

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