Norwich- late pressure

[Trafford]

“When teams like Norwich pile on the pressure late in games, you have to concentrate and make good decisions, you've got to defend properly, keep the ball and counter attack well.

"Teams who have conceded late goals against them, the likes of Forest, Millwall and Bolton will be ruing the errors they've made defensively and the bad decisions they made under pressure."

Interesting comments from Wilder. Based on events at BDTBL this season, I’m not convinced that we will avoid making ‘bad decisions under pressure’ so would hope that we take the game to them in the final stages, not rely on counter attacks as he seems to be suggesting. Let’s hope that it’s a bluff!

 

[Rusty view]

With their late goals even more reason to take our chances

 

[Blade for Sale]

This 'late goal' thing seems to have got into the heads of quite a few of Norwich's opponents and I think it's becoming a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy for sides that visit Carrow Road that a late goal is almost a given.

It wouldn't be a bad idea psychologically speaking for Wilder to remind Norwich of the manner of their defeat at BDTBL earlier in the season, and for our players to keep mentioning it during the game to even the balance a tad on this front in my opinion.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

With their late goals even more reason to take our chances

Yep, the games we've lost recently have been where we haven't gone in front or put the game to bed after dominating the 1st half. Without checking, how many games have we won when conceding the 1st goal this season ?

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

We're pretty good at conceding late goals.

Recipe for disaster.

 

[Yellarbellyblade]

We're pretty good at conceding late goals.

Recipe for disaster.

Actually so are they, they are definitely not a leave five minutes early to avoid the rush team

 

[Stretch]

We're pretty good at conceding late goals.

Recipe for disaster.

Hardly. We've conceeded 6 goals past the 80 minute mark this season:

Swansea 1
Preston 2
Rotherham 1
West Brom 1
Leeds 1 (which was a freakish balls up)

And only a few between 60-70.

 

[LJBlade]

We're pretty good at conceding late goals.

Recipe for disaster.

How do we compare with other teams?

 

[Bartleby]

This 'late goal' thing seems to have got into the heads of quite a few of Norwich's opponents and I think it's becoming a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy for sides that visit Carrow Road that a late goal is almost a given.

There could be a bit of that, but listening to Beans latest podcast the stats say it is a very real thing, so we should prepare for it. On performances first half Norwich are down near the bottom of the league, on second half performances they are top. If we can convert our chances first half it might the key to getting something from this one.

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

Hardly. We've conceeded 6 goals past the 80 minute mark this season:

Swansea 1
Preston 2
Rotherham 1
West Brom 1
Leeds 1 (which was a freakish balls up)

And only a few between 60-70.

31% of our goals have been conceded after the 75th minute.

 

[Beans]

How do we compare with other teams?

Conceded 9 goals in last 15 minutes, joint-13th fewest in league (12 teams better than us).

If you do last 10 minutes, we've conceded 6 which is joint-7th fewest (6 teams better than us).

https://www.soccerstats.com/timing.asp?league=england2

It's not a major problem at all IMO.

Edited as I got it completely backwards...

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

Norwich aside, and Preston although that was our own fault for letting a 2 goal lead slip, how many times have we won games in the last 18 months in the last 10-15 minutes ? Can't think of many.

 

[Beans]

Norwich aside, and Preston although that was our own fault for letting a 2 goal lead slip, how many times have we won games in the last 18 months in the last 10-15 minutes ? Can't think of many.

Millwall away, Reading away too.

Rotherham if we hadn't conceded that stupid goal

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

Norwich aside, and Preston although that was our own fault for letting a 2 goal lead slip, how many times have we won games in the last 18 months in the last 10-15 minutes ? Can't think of many.

Reading and Millwall away this season.

Leeds away last season.

 

[Stretch]

31% of our goals have been conceded after the 75th minute.

See the post by Beans above which explains in more detail. We really aren't that bad.

 

[Rob86]

What we really need to do is make sure we take our chances, ripped straight from Beans podcast ! But it is so true for this game. I expect we’ll concede. So 100% conversion rate for clear chances is a must. How many of those we’ll get is anyone’s guess.

I’m actually excited/fearful as I think it’ll be 3-0 at half time, just not sure to who !

 

[Russ]

If it comes to that, they commit lots of players forward and leave gaps at the back. Derby exploited that and beat them.

 

[Sheff de party]

Hardly. We've conceeded 6 goals past the 80 minute mark this season:

Swansea 1
Preston 2
Rotherham 1
West Brom 1
Leeds 1 (which was a freakish balls up)

And only a few between 60-70.

Stoke as well. That Allen free kick.

 

[SUFC Handsworth]

“When teams like Norwich pile on the pressure late in games, you have to concentrate and make good decisions, you've got to defend properly, keep the ball and counter attack well.

"Teams who have conceded late goals against them, the likes of Forest, Millwall and Bolton will be ruing the errors they've made defensively and the bad decisions they made under pressure."

Interesting comments from Wilder. Based on events at BDTBL this season, I’m not convinced that we will avoid making ‘bad decisions under pressure’ so would hope that we take the game to them in the final stages, not rely on counter attacks as he seems to be suggesting. Let’s hope that it’s a bluff!

Unfortunately United are just the type of side to concede late on,due to a distinct lack of Morgan type at the heart of the defence.Some defenders absolutely thrive in situations like that, unfortunately ours are snowflakes (witness the way Basham dives at some of the challenges for some challenges). We've conceded far to many late on to think any other way.

 

[mattbianco1]

Controversial but I'd go like this...

Henderson
Basham Egan O'Connell
Baldock Norwood Fleck Stevens
Duffy Mcgoldrick
Madine​

 

[Stretch]

Stoke as well. That Allen free kick.

Good shout, missed one.

 

[Stretch]

Unfortunately United are just the type of side to concede late on,due to a distinct lack of Morgan type at the heart of the defence.Some defenders absolutely thrive in situations like that, unfortunately ours are snowflakes (witness the way Basham dives at some of the challenges for some challenges). We've conceded far to many late on to think any other way.

Nonsense.

The stats say we are not quite the pushover that some on here seem to think we are.

 

[tomtheblade]

Last minute goals stick in the memory more than most others, for obvious reasons.

It's natural as fans that we'd place more emphasis on them due to the emotional high/trauma associated with such moments.

From the look of the stats it seems as if we're nothing particularly special in this regard. However, Norwich actually are special in this regard, so we should still be wary nonetheless.

 

[ShockingBadBuy]

Some defenders absolutely thrive in situations like that, unfortunately ours are snowflakes (witness the way Basham dives at some of the challenges for some challenges). We've conceded far to many late on to think any other way.

Precisely one team in the whole division has conceded fewer goals than we have.

 

[grafikhaus]

Without checking, how many games have we won when conceding the 1st goal this season ?

I make it just twice - QPR away (Eze 29 and - for us - Sharp 43, McGoldrick 65) and Brentford away (Maupay 6, Fleck OG 65 and - for us - Ngoyo OG 10, Norwood 15, Clark 72).

Also this:

 

[LS16Blade]

Unfortunately United are just the type of side to concede late on,due to a distinct lack of Morgan type at the heart of the defence.Some defenders absolutely thrive in situations like that, unfortunately ours are snowflakes (witness the way Basham dives at some of the challenges for some challenges). We've conceded far to many late on to think any other way.

I agree, Handsworth; some teams have defenders that thrive in situations like that but we aren't one of them. And it applies throughout games and not just at the end.

You only have to watch our matches to see that in almost every match, because we're a good side, we are on the front foot and controlling the football. It might seem greedy or churlish, but I maintain that for a side that controls as many games as we do, we lose or draw far too many. I cannot remember any games this season, save for Rotherham, when I thought, 'we were under the cosh, there', and they were few and far between last season too.

The periods when we come under concerted pressure are very rare and even when they come, they don't last for long. Yet, it seems that the pressure doesn't have to last for long in order for the opposition to profit. Far too often we see United dominate a game for 45-60 minutes (or in some cases, like the Derby match, 90 minutes) without making it count, but then see the opposition get a foothold for 5-10 minutes, in which time they manage to score. Swansea was a case in point.

Now, we know that in large part its down to not being able or willing to get the extra quality up front to make our domination count, as well as having a goal-shy midfield. Having a defence and midfield (because they are more often at the root of goals we concede) that doesn't particularly relish defending is also part of it, though.

Push them back and it often becomes a bit 'Keystone Cops' back there, with players making bad decisions; going to ground with rash tackles when calmness is required to contain a situation; players failing to clear the ball properly and effectively; and generally panicking.

 

[LJBlade]

I agree, Handsworth; some teams have defenders that thrive in situations like that but we aren't one of them. And it applies throughout games and not just at the end.

You only have to watch our matches to see that in almost every match, because we're a good side, we are on the front foot and controlling the football. It might seem greedy or churlish, but I maintain that for a side that controls as many games as we do, we lose or draw far too many. I cannot remember any games this season, save for Rotherham, when I thought, 'we were under the cosh, there', and they were few and far between last season too.

The periods when we come under concerted pressure are very rare and even when they come, they don't last for long. Yet, it seems that the pressure doesn't have to last for long in order for the opposition to profit. Far too often we see United dominate a game for 45-60 minutes (or in some cases, like the Derby match, 90 minutes) without making it count, but then see the opposition get a foothold for 5-10 minutes, in which time they manage to score. Swansea was a case in point.

Now, we know that in large part its down to not being able or willing to get the extra quality up front to make our domination count, as well as having a goal-shy midfield. Having a defence and midfield (because they are more often at the root of goals we concede) that doesn't particularly relish defending is also part of it, though.

Push them back and it often becomes a bit 'Keystone Cops' back there, with players making bad decisions; going to ground with rash tackles when calmness is required to contain a situation; players failing to clear the ball properly and effectively; and generally panicking.

We’ve got a defence that doesn’t relish defending? I’m sorry but that’s complete nonsense.

See post #24

 

[Gimli]

We’ve got a defence that doesn’t relish defending? I’m sorry but that’s complete nonsense.

See post #24

Don’t let the facts get in the way of a good moan!
We need to sign Chris Morgan and John Terry immediately, forget the system, these guys just relish defending!

 

[Gimli]

Precisely one team in the whole division has conceded fewer goals than we have.

And that team is...Pulis’ Middlesbrough!

I’m sure we can all agree that we need to play much more like them

 

[ChipButtyBlade]

One of Wilders comments this week was about "seeing the game out for the last 10 mins at Norwich".

If they do he should buy himself a crate of Peroni for the trip home.