Nigel Clough.... How Good are You?

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Woodwardfan

Woodwardfan
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Some 17 years in team management.

Good, not sensational record at Burton but good service to a non-league club and a visible display of loyalty when other opportunities were available. Left the club in much better shape than he inherited, but the club was ambitious and expected good progress.

Solid performance at Derby County. Complicated heritage from his heroic father and severe financial challenges. An appraiasal of his efforts would be "solid" and maybe "a solid platform established". Not an insignificant achievement to stabilise Derby and establish the foundations, but the club did not really "kick on". Succeeding manager appeared to provide the stimulus but failed at the last hurdle, rather unluckily maybe, but it was there for the taking in truth.

Appointed at SUFC who were up "shit creek" frankly though a "hazy" new half owner offered hope.. Steadied the ship, built a sound defensive unit, gradually liberated the formation to play progressive, sophisticated football, albeit with the benefit of expensive loan and contract signings. Exceptional surge up the third tier and a phenomenal F.A. Cup run to Wembley Semi-Final.

At Wembley set up a bold attacking team which played "iffy" Premier League opposition off the park to lead 2-1 at half time. Missed a major opportunity and fielded a team which got taken apart over the first 20 minutes of the second half, which on reflection, was naive in the extreme. The opposition manager was "let off the hook" frankly.

I am a massive Clough fan, to date. The Wembley circumstances were emotional and exceptional. Clough is an "even keel" man through and througn; if anything he is cautious I guess. Why he didn't defend the lead only he knows. Maybe he underrated Hull City, certainly I was amazed they put that 20 minutes together like they did and where Maguire ( now with Hull !!) and Collins were, goodness knows.

My view of Clough as of now is: As good as any manager we have ever had., but with limitations. I think he has a tendency to sign players fashioned in his own image. What is his image? I'd say solid, dependable, hardworking, unspectacular.

OK that's fine. I think that's much like Danny Wilson in truth. Maybe Bassett had a special ingredient, I'd say so anyway.

The signings this summer reflected the manager to me, in line with the above description. That was until we signed Higdon who does not fit the "identykit" to me. I hope it was not a desperation signing. I was prepared to accept the "character" criteria re Brandy and to a lesser extent re Taylor, though I do regret the latter's departure. Whether Higdon is so much better a bloke, time will tell. He has a public assault against his name anyway. The signing of a "big unit target man" also changes my expectation about our fornations at a stroke.

Over to the potential of our manager. He's done well at Burton, he's done OK at Derby. He's done very well at SUFC, but nobody knows whether he has the capacity within him to do the job we need, i.e. get us to the Premiership. I think he is riding the crest of a wave of desperate United fans who hope and pray he is "the messiah". Signs are he is another Danny Wilson, who also has had a really good start to his SUFC career. Not even Nigel Clough knows how good he is. Thing is he's up there alongside the best I've ever seen in 58 years regular support.

I hope for my sake he achieves more with us than he has achieved before, because that is the scale of the job as I see it. Good luck, Nigel Clough, we are running out of options. If you are not the "messiah" I'm not sure where that leaves us.
 

I'm not sure it was a case of not defending the lead against hull, I think it was more the fact we'd shit them up and their big players ( mainly huddlestone ) started playing. If it weren't for his tactics we wouldn't of had a lead to defend
 
'Signs are he is another Danny Wilson, who also has had a really good start to his SUFC career. Not even Nigel Clough knows how good he is. Thing is he's up there alongside the best I've ever seen in 58 years regular support'

Don't agree with your Danny Wilson thingy,DO agree with him(or us) knowing how good he is,I personally think that he would be a really good prem manager,hopefully with us,without the financial restrictions he had at Derby,bit less with us.
He's intelligent and passionate,and likes to give youngsters a chance.
Your last bit of comment,shows what most of us think,if you with 58 years watching the blades have that opinion,then who are we young'uns to disagree !
 
As ever time will tell.

Im sure we will go up as Champions. He has to do it this year though as the pressure is now there.
 
...yeah, I was kind of with you up to the Danny Wilson comparison.
Look at the team Wilson started with and the one Nigel inherited.
 
Clough is reliable, likeable, honest and hardworking. He plays good football and has built a real team spirit. I liked him as a player, i like him as a manager. My concern is whether he has the x-factor and or luck to get us to the upper echelons of the championship or higher? In the short term if he doesnt get us up this season pressure will be on. For me Danny Wilson will always be the nearly man, I hope Clough doesnt end up the same.
 
For me clough will be judged on this season, he couldn't really fail last season after the crap we'd had. The run in the league was what most of us expected any way and what they where capable of. Cup run was luck there's a team every year that has one! I'll reserve judgement on him being one of the best until he gets us promotion this season.
 
Cup run was luck there's a team every year that has one!

Just because there's a cup run from a lower leage team every year doesn't mean it has to be lucky! We beat 2 Premier league (away) and 2 Championship sides, all of which were well deserved wins. We then won a half at Wembley, again deservedly. No luck involved whatsoever.
 
'Signs are he is another Danny Wilson, who also has had a really good start to his SUFC career. Not even Nigel Clough knows how good he is. Thing is he's up there alongside the best I've ever seen in 58 years regular support'

Don't agree with your Danny Wilson thingy,DO agree with him(or us) knowing how good he is,I personally think that he would be a really good prem manager,hopefully with us,without the financial restrictions he had at Derby,bit less with us.
He's intelligent and passionate,and likes to give youngsters a chance.
Your last bit of comment,shows what most of us think,if you with 58 years watching the blades have that opinion,then who are we young'uns to disagree !

There's a big difference. The team Danny Wilson had should of gone up, in my opinion the team was by far the best team in the division that year, and it was done to an enormous dollop of bad luck ( Do I really need to explain what I mean by that!) that we didn't quite make it. By contrast the team inherited by Clough was a poor team which if they were lucky might sneak into 6th place. When Clough arrived he went through a clear strategy of first making the team solid and hard to beat and then made some astute signings and we returned to winning ways. So I think the signs are that Clough is a better manager than Wilson and just as importantly I think this team is easily good enough to go up.
 
Just because there's a cup run from a lower leage team every year doesn't mean it has to be lucky! We beat 2 Premier league (away) and 2 Championship sides, all of which were well deserved wins. We then won a half at Wembley, again deservedly. No luck involved whatsoever.
Last minute against Fulham= luck
Brayfords deflected shot against charlton= luck there's gotta be a huge amount of luck to go on a cup run. I wouldn't say we outplayed forest charlton or Fulham we dug deep never gave up an got some luck. Yes we deserved our day out at wembley because of the shear determination of the squad not to be beaten! But to say no luck what so ever I think your wrong there.
 

Last minute against Fulham= luck
Brayfords deflected shot against charlton= luck there's gotta be a huge amount of luck to go on a cup run. I wouldn't say we outplayed forest charlton or Fulham we dug deep never gave up an got some luck. Yes we deserved our day out at wembley because of the shear determination of the squad not to be beaten! But to say no luck what so ever I think your wrong there.

Obviously we had a lot of luck but it wasn't as if we stumbled into the semi-finals despite ourselves. Clough set up a very average and very unconfident side in a way that allowed us to hold out against teams that should have by rights pasted us and to take our opportunities when they came. I think he deserves a lot more credit than you're giving him for both the cup run and turning our league campaign around.
 
For me clough will be judged on this season, he couldn't really fail last season after the crap we'd had. The run in the league was what most of us expected any way and what they where capable of. Cup run was luck there's a team every year that has one! I'll reserve judgement on him being one of the best until he gets us promotion this season.
He could have failed, we could have gone down !
 
Obviously we had a lot of luck but it wasn't as if we stumbled into the semi-finals despite ourselves. Clough set up a very average and very unconfident side in a way that allowed us to hold out against teams that should have by rights pasted us and to take our opportunities when they came. I think he deserves a lot more credit than you're giving him for both the cup run and turning our league campaign around.
Read the post again! We need needed some luck, but we DESERVED our day at wembley.
 
He could have failed, we could have gone down !
What I'm saying is he came into a win win situation, relegation wouldn't have been his fault save us and he achieved what was asked. This season is when he should now be judged as the expectation of promotion is now there again, if we are in the top 3-4 come Christmas do u think he'll care much about the FA cup as last season? We needed and he needed the cup run last season to breath fresh belief into the squad.
 
One thing we know for certain, NC is as good as anyone in the business at getting teams out of the mire and onto a solid foundation. Two great clubs, in dire situations have been rescued by him. Not only rescued from disaster but both sets of fans have extremely high hopes going into the future.

That alone is enough to build a legacy, however, I sincerely believe he will put another feather in his cap by dragging SUFC off the floor to the top of the League.

If he didn't do so well in the last half of the season, we would all be ok with mid - table rebuilding this year, after the awful failure of DW. Instead, we look forward to a season of high hopes.

I just hope that we are patient and supportive enough to give him, the staff and the players enough time to achieve them.
 
Read the post again! We need needed some luck, but we DESERVED our day at wembley.
That's my point though, if we deserved to be at Wembley surely Clough deserves credit for it even if some luck was involved. You say our run in the league was only what was expected but that ignores how impressive it actually was. He took what looked like the worst United side I've seen in my lifetime, one that around December a lot of people feared might be relegation bound, and went on a run that left us in seventh. I'm saying he did more than just achieved what he was asked, most of us would have taken 20th and a day out at Villa Park in the darkest days of last season.
 
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That's my point though, if we deserved to be at Wembley surely Clough deserves credit for it even if some luck was involved. You say our run in the league was only what was expected but that ignores how impressive it actually was. He took what looked like the worst United side I've seen in my lifetime, one that around December a lot of people feared might be relegation bound, and went on a run that left us in seventh. I'm saying he did more than just achieved what he was asked, most of us would have taken 20th and a day out at Villa Park in the darkest days of last season.
Don't get me wrong clough deserves huge credit like u say, all I'm saying is the run we went on most expected us to have a run like that at the begining of the season the only surprise is it actually took us until the final quarter to go on it. Not one blade expected the crap we endured for the 3/4 of the season. I just think we can really judge clough now on this season, if he drags us out of this god for saken league and really pushes us on he'll be right up there for me with out doubt. So I'm going to save my judgement till the end of the season, not just on clough but the whole squad.
 
That's my point though, if we deserved to be at Wembley surely Clough deserves credit for it even if some luck was involved. You say our run in the league was only what was expected but that ignores how impressive it actually was. He took what looked like the worst United side I've seen in my lifetime, one that around December a lot of people feared might be relegation bound, and went on a run that left us in seventh. I'm saying he did more than just achieved what he was asked, most of us would have taken 20th and a day out at Villa Park in the darkest days of last season.
No matter how bad that side was,it was no where near the position where Weir took us too,so what i think Yuley82 is trying to say is,the position we finished in,with the players brought in was the minimum we would have expected at the start of the season.

We all know how bad this league is,but i tell you what,we have had some adventures in it and i wouldn't change it for nothing,but now is the time to get out of it.

Good luck Cloughy,each and everyone of us will give you that i'm sure,now take us to the summit.
 
Luck is the fine line that makes or breaks many football managers. Blackwell was unlucky that we conceded a worldie then had a stone wall pen turned down. Wilson really unlucky that we lost our best striker to prison and his plan b got injured, then the pigs went on that run and on any other season we would have gone up with that points total. Then we hit a post from a penalty which would have probably sent us up.

Weir lost his talisman too early and wasn't able to put a plan b in.

Fine lines make success.
 
Don't get me wrong clough deserves huge credit like u say, all I'm saying is the run we went on most expected us to have a run like that at the begining of the season the only surprise is it actually took us until the final quarter to go on it. Not one blade expected the crap we endured for the 3/4 of the season. I just think we can really judge clough now on this season, if he drags us out of this god for saken league and really pushes us on he'll be right up there for me with out doubt. So I'm going to save my judgement till the end of the season, not just on clough but the whole squad.

Fair play. I actually agree with you, as impressed as I was by him last season, ultimately Clough will only be regarded as a success at United if he takes us up this year. I believe he will, but then I had a good feeling about Weir so that might not be a great sign.
 
Last year it pretty clear Clough had a brief to stablise us, take us to safety and put in place the blocks to build for this season.

I think he has prepared for this season well, we have strength in depth, i think we have bought well, and brought in the right sort of players. Spending money on names just for the sake of it is counter-productive and high risk. My worry is that should we get off to a slow start, and it isn't beyond the realms of possiblity, then people might start getting a bit twitchy. I have got a feeling we might get off to a slightly slow start, and be around 7th or 8th at the end of August, but i also think we will finish the season stronger than anyone else.
 
Last year it pretty clear Clough had a brief to stablise us, take us to safety and put in place the blocks to build for this season.

I think he has prepared for this season well, we have strength in depth, i think we have bought well, and brought in the right sort of players. Spending money on names just for the sake of it is counter-productive and high risk. My worry is that should we get off to a slow start, and it isn't beyond the realms of possiblity, then people might start getting a bit twitchy. I have got a feeling we might get off to a slightly slow start, and be around 7th or 8th at the end of August, but i also think we will finish the season stronger than anyone else.

I think with the amount of changes we have made, you're probably about right with your end of august prediction. I also think we will finish strongly. in pig style (fuckers)
 

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