new manager

[Silent Blade]

All 3 are used to playing and managing in the top 2 divisions ,surely that's not just coincidence ,whereas Warnock and Basset were used to the lower leagues ,our style is much better suited to the higher leagues but not to Div 3. However the minute we go to hoof ,kick and punch the crowd will be on the managers back like scabies. Difficult balance ,just have to hope we can play ourselves through the play offs.

Agree. If we do go up I do think that we will carry on the way we play and do well in the higher divisions but the biggest improvement we need is the set pieces

 

[metalblade]

If we were to go up we would also need some players who are at least 6ft tall and have bit of pace and power. Looking at the Tottenham team the most striking thing I noticed was not just how technically good they were but also the fact that they were all big strong athletes. We need some big buggers right through the spine of the team or we will always struggle which ever division we are in.

 

[Dkc]

Let's say the home performances continue on a par with the Peterborough and Fleetwood games, and we drop down to mid-table with nowt to play for in our final three or four games. The season can't be seen as anything other than a massive failure.

I agree we should get out of the habit of sacking managers after one or two seasons, but Clough has been handed all the resources to deliver a top-two challenge this season. For the first time I can remember, the Blades have been a buying club, not a selling club. But still we're struggling.

I'm not in favour of sacking Clough but the Prince will be expecting some return on his investment, and he may not be as patient

 

[sheffielder]

If the club sacked him I'd lose faith in jim et al completely. It might sound controversial but we need to stick with clough even if we don't go up. This season and next. He's a flow builder but cups prove he's got the talent, he may have to amend his principles slightly to get out of this league though.

The league games ive seen since xmas are an improvement on what I saw in sept.

He's building a young side that plays football on the counter and I for one believe in patience this season and next.

The talent is there, we just need to apply it better and get several players fit and firing

Your faith in Jim is based on what exactly?

 

[Sirius]

You provide a very compelling argument but it's always going to be KFC over Southern Fried Chicken for me.

Surely, so far as the Original Poster is concerned, we should order nothing but Pork for him. Unfortunately, continued exposure to Pigs may cause whole districts to be quarantined. This requires that their pathetic scratchings and attempts to socialise with a top club should be confined to Pork Talk. later to be turnedinto pork sausages.

 

[mattbianco1]

The guy who would suit us would be Mark Warburton , who is available from Brentford at the end of this season . Would we be any better off , imo no , because Brenford have been building to get where they are today for 5 seasons . He would just pick up from the foundations Clough is building . Clough has hung on for certain players , which in todays ethos of immediate success , he has bucked the trend . Promotion is there for us to lose . Clough and Co are not losers.

UTB

Mark Warburton has been a manager for less than 2 years?

He has fallen very much on his feet with the squad at Brentford which Uwe Rosler assembled

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

Mark Warburton has been a manager for less than 2 years?

He has fallen very much on his feet with the squad at Brentford which Uwe Rosler assembled

Agree , thats why i think Steve McLaren fell on his feet at Derby , and if we gave Clough the boot , if he fails with promotion this season ( promotion must have been the mandate from the board ) , someone else coming in would pick up the squad from Clough next season , (as Warbuton did at Brentford ,) and would no doubt be successful , barring major cock ups.

For Clough though success is promotion , not achieving it is failure , either way the debate goes on , but at the same or higher level.

Again the game at Scunny today , will give us another barometer , where we are actually heading , with performance and result.

UTB

 

[mattbianco1]

Lord Bos of Eckington. Are you saying McClaren should get the sack then if they don't go up? He's had 2 seasons at it

 

[Rodley]

Mark Warburton has been a manager for less than 2 years?

He has fallen very much on his feet with the squad at Brentford which Uwe Rosler assembled

Ironically, after all the furore when he was linked here, Robert Page is doing a good job down at Port Vale.

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

Lord Bos of Eckington. Are you saying McClaren should get the sack then if they don't go up? He's had 2 seasons at it

Matt , no not at all .

As you said Rosler built the foundations at Brentford.

Clough built the foundations at Derby. If Derby do not go up imo , McLaren deserves to get another season .

Clough is building the foundations at BDTBL ( from a standing start ) , so we have to give him some slack , but he his not above criticism .

IMO if we got rid of Clough due to not achieving promotion , a new manager could move us on to the next stage , but this would be a risk , and no given guarantee .

My view is what ever happens this season , which will bring relief or disappointment / failure , we stick with Clough.

Warbuton and McLaren , although hard work and good decisions on recruitment on there part ,had the foundations already laid by others

In saying that , the life expectancy does seem to be around 2 seasons . Whether we buck the trend on this , only time and results will tell . If we were in the championship already and not league 1 , would the whole mind set be different , i don't think so.

UTB

 

[grafikhaus]

Lord Bos of Eckington. Are you saying McClaren should get the sack then if they don't go up? He's had 2 seasons at it

I can't speak for LBofE, but I certainly think Derby should get a manager with some pedigree if they go in the Premier League. That's one of football's many faults. If a team go up to the top flight, sentiment dictates that you 'reward' the manager who got you there by keeping him in place.

Utterly wrong. All that gives you is a season (usually only one) of struggle because the manager might be good in the Championship but they're a different breed in the PL. As well as all the usual requirements, there's media interest, contracts, image rights for players etc etc.

If you don't agree, just look at the bottom three teams in the PL. All in their first (and last for the forseeable) season in the PL.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

I can't speak for LBofE, but I certainly think Derby should get a manager with some pedigree if they go in the Premier League. That's one of football's many faults. If a team go up to the top flight, sentiment dictates that you 'reward' the manager who got you there by keeping him in place.

Utterly wrong. All that gives you is a season (usually only one) of struggle because the manager might be good in the Championship but they're a different breed in the PL. As well as all the usual requirements, there's media interest, contracts, image rights for players etc etc.

If you don't agree, just look at the bottom three teams in the PL. All in their first (and last for the forseeable) season in the PL.

Why look elsewhere, Warnock is the perfect example.

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

Why look elsewhere, Warnock is the perfect example.

Some managers are made for League 1 , or championship , or premiership . Results and performances dictate this.

McLaren with Derby , if they go up , will they stick or twist - time will tell.

Clough has a championship pedigree , so from a appointment aspect we are ahead of the game . Just one massive problem , which no doubt the board thought of - we have to get out of league 1 first.

Get a good centre back on loan , like this week , and we should make it.

UTB

 

[sitwell]

I can't speak for LBofE, but I certainly think Derby should get a manager with some pedigree if they go in the Premier League. That's one of football's many faults. If a team go up to the top flight, sentiment dictates that you 'reward' the manager who got you there by keeping him in place.

Utterly wrong. All that gives you is a season (usually only one) of struggle because the manager might be good in the Championship but they're a different breed in the PL. As well as all the usual requirements, there's media interest, contracts, image rights for players etc etc.

If you don't agree, just look at the bottom three teams in the PL. All in their first (and last for the forseeable) season in the PL.

But then you get the same merry go round of failed foreign managers on massive salaries ,which is ruining the premier league and the national team. There hasn't been an English winner of the league because as soon as a few results go awry it is easy to trot out the old 'English managers aren't experienced enough' line and get some foreign failure in ,give him loads of dosh and finish mid table. There are only going to be 3 or 4 teams who can win it anyway ,its such a shame they wont appoint an English manager.

 

[Cyprus Blade]

,its such a shame they wont appoint an English manager.

I agree but are they around? I mean McClaren managed the national team ( not particularly well). He'll be knocking on by the time we get there but I vote we get a foreigner to manage us in the premiership - Alex Sabella

 

[grafikhaus]

But then you get the same merry go round of failed foreign managers on massive salaries ,which is ruining the premier league and the national team. There hasn't been an English winner of the league because as soon as a few results go awry it is easy to trot out the old 'English managers aren't experienced enough' line and get some foreign failure in ,give him loads of dosh and finish mid table. There are only going to be 3 or 4 teams who can win it anyway ,its such a shame they wont appoint an English manager.

And it's time this 'merry-go-round' in the managerial game was stopped in it's tracks. English or foreign makes no difference. Maybe there was once an 'allure' to a bloke with a foreign-sounding name but as Poyet and Pellegrini - to name just two - are proving, foreign managers are just as proficient at wasting money, blaming refs. and failing as their home-grown counterparts.

Forty-four managers sacked in the top 4 divisions so far this season tells its own story - most are not up to the job. A couple of changes I'd like to see are:

The slavish adherence to 'The Badges'. For far too long, possession of these near-mystical 'Badges' (Coaching) has been mandatory for a would-be manager. (Unless you're Alan Shearer when exceptions were made). This has created a near-Freemason scenario where only the chosen are invited to join the clique.
Possession of these 'Badges' does not indicate an excellent knowledge of tactics, finance, handling the media, fitness etc. These should each be handled by separate experts. The advent of ProZone has made most of these outdated methods redundant.

Also, the level of prospective managers we attract should be subject to some level of accountability. Obviously, we won't get/want managers who state at interview 'I'll get you into the top six.' We want proof of how they intend to go about it. It's up to the chairman to set out targets (something even the lowliest salesman is subject to) and, if these previously-agreed targets aren't reached, the manager can be dismissed with no prospect of a pay-off.

For anybody about to say 'But who would come, given those demands?', Clough - out of work when we employed him. Danny Wilson ditto. They were hardly queuing round the block for their services. If they don't like these terms, don't apply in the first place.

 

[sitwell]

Ancellotti ,Benitez ,Houllier ,Scolari ,Capello ,Erikson ,fail in 3 massively paid jobs ,don't matter just go and get another with a top club in Spain ,Italy or Uk or maybe manage a small country and rape them of cash. I hate these types with a passion. the clubs do it to get in the papers and gain Kudos.
Great post btw Graf ,wasn't Blackwell the highest badged up coach at one bit ,yet he couldn't manage a shit.
Clough(snr) Shankly Paisley ,the true great managers didn't need coaching badges.

 

[wizadry]

But then you get the same merry go round of failed foreign managers on massive salaries ,which is ruining the premier league and the national team. There hasn't been an English winner of the league because as soon as a few results go awry it is easy to trot out the old 'English managers aren't experienced enough' line and get some foreign failure in ,give him loads of dosh and finish mid table. There are only going to be 3 or 4 teams who can win it anyway ,its such a shame they wont appoint an English manager.

Some great posts in this thread eventually, just to add to this one, i'm so glad Aston Villa gave Sherwood the chance instead of going the foreign route, our managers can't all be shite and our game is going too much down the foreign route.

 

[Silent Blade]

Clough(snr) Shankly Paisley ,the true great managers didn't need coaching badges.

Alf Ramsey and Jock Stein are also true great managers

 

[mattbianco1]

If you don't agree, just look at the bottom three teams in the PL. All in their first (and last for the forseeable) season in the PL.

Didn't QPR get rid of a manager with loads of Premier League pedigree in Harry Redknapp?

I think its more than just that. The gulf is vast between the Championship and PL. The key is to survive the first season somehow. If you do that, you never know. See Stoke and Swansea etc..

 

[grafikhaus]

Didn't QPR get rid of a manager with loads of Premier League pedigree in Harry Redknapp?

I think its more than just that. The gulf is vast between the Championship and PL. The key is to survive the first season somehow. If you do that, you never know. See Stoke and Swansea etc..

Pedigree? I don't think Tony Fernandez hired Redknapp for his 'survival skills'* (not, unless, you count his own).

Redknapp has been indulged throughout his career - bank accounts in dog's name, 'tapping up' Andy Todd, 'It's possible that I own a racehorse...' etc. etc. probably because he knows 'where the bodies are buried'.

His Premier League 'pedigree' is:

Portsmouth. Put together a late run in 2005 that saved Pompey from relegation.
Spurs. Never in any danger of relegation, then or now.
QPR. Despite spending around £50m, Redknapp failed to lift QPR a single place. He then commenced to do what he does best. With both feet in the Championship, and not for the first time, Redknapp cleared off* before the shit hit the fan, leaving QPR to an uncertain future and a likely £58m fine under FFP - money that Redknapp had spent on transfers all to no avail.

'Relegation? Nuffink to do wiv me, guv. It's that Chris Ramsey.'

So, mattbianco1, an interesting proposition, but hardly typical.

God knows what Harry will do once his looks have gone.

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

Pedigree? I don't think Tony Fernandez hired Redknapp for his 'survival skills'* (not, unless, you count his own).

Redknapp has been indulged throughout his career - bank accounts in dog's name, 'tapping up' Andy Todd, 'It's possible that I own a racehorse...' etc. etc. probably because he knows 'where the bodies are buried'.

His Premier League 'pedigree' is:

Portsmouth. Put together a late run in 2005 that saved Pompey from relegation.
Spurs. Never in any danger of relegation, then or now.
QPR. Despite spending around £50m, Redknapp failed to lift QPR a single place. He then commenced to do what he does best. With both feet in the Championship, and not for the first time, Redknapp cleared off* before the shit hit the fan, leaving QPR to an uncertain future and a likely £58m fine under FFP - money that Redknapp had spent on transfers all to no avail.

'Relegation? Nuffink to do wiv me, guv. It's that Chris Ramsey.'

So, mattbianco1, an interesting proposition, but hardly typical.

God knows what Harry will do once his looks have gone.

Poor old Jamie.

UTB

 

[mattbianco1]

grafikhaus you don't seem to mention winning the FA Cup with Portsmouth and getting Spurs to the Champions League Quarters. At one point he was very much the leading candidate for the England job.

He's a total bell end don't get me wrong but has/had enough premiership experience to keep QPR up. If he wasn't such a bent prick he would've got that England job IMO

 

[grafikhaus]

grafikhaus you don't seem to mention winning the FA Cup with Portsmouth and getting Spurs to the Champions League Quarters. At one point he was very much the leading candidate for the England job.

He's a total bell end don't get me wrong but has/had enough premiership experience to keep QPR up. If he wasn't such a bent prick he would've got that England job IMO

Every cloud, eh?

I get your point, Matt. However I maintain his failures far outweigh his successes. The Cup win with Pompey was underpinned by bent ownership - something that affects them to this day. The quarter-final with Spurs is surely 'the law of averages' for a bloke who has been a manger for almost 30 years. His Wikipedia entry reads like Crimewatch.

'Bent prick'. Like it.

 

[grafikhaus]

So Sitwell, bet you're well impressed with the goings on at Sunderland?

 

[wizadry]

So Sitwell, bet you're well impressed with the goings on at Sunderland?

View attachment 10992

If this doesn't prove football is a merry go round then nothing will, what a joke!

 

[robbiez666]

But then you get the same merry go round of failed foreign managers on massive salaries ,which is ruining the premier league and the national team. There hasn't been an English winner of the league because as soon as a few results go awry it is easy to trot out the old 'English managers aren't experienced enough' line and get some foreign failure in ,give him loads of dosh and finish mid table. There are only going to be 3 or 4 teams who can win it anyway ,its such a shame they wont appoint an English manager.

Not just foreign managers though. There's a whole host of British managers who go from failure or mediocrity to another job. Especially in the lower leagues.

 

[blade.i.am]

Blimey, there's 3 managers on that list with worse win percentages than Weir. Wouldn't have thought it possible.

 

[alcoblade]

I can't speak for LBofE, but I certainly think Derby should get a manager with some pedigree if they go in the Premier League. That's one of football's many faults. If a team go up to the top flight, sentiment dictates that you 'reward' the manager who got you there by keeping him in place.

Utterly wrong. All that gives you is a season (usually only one) of struggle because the manager might be good in the Championship but they're a different breed in the PL. As well as all the usual requirements, there's media interest, contracts, image rights for players etc etc.

If you don't agree, just look at the bottom three teams in the PL. All in their first (and last for the forseeable) season in the PL.

Its far more to do with the lack of tens of millions of pounds to compete than it is about the managers.

UTB