My take ...

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pommpey

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Never personal ,not my thing ,in fact I quite like you ,just cant get my head around the Norwood hate ,so I bite ,and love getting you to bite back ;)

Lets just let this thread slide off the bottom of the page, eh?

pommpey
 

pommpey

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I know you're trying to prove a point pommpey but at 65 passes in 65 minutes on Saturday Norwood was the highest of any player per minute played with an accuracy of 84.6%. Thats a lot of pinging to the wings.

Yes, point well made Mobile. But ... and it's a big 'but' ... what did they create? Anyone can clip lofted chips to team-mates 35 metres away. But the opposition know and read our strategy so easily, especially when it goes to Norwood. They know what he's thinking (because it's all he can do) and they simply shift players wide to stop Baldock or RND advancing. Same as last season. How many times does one of his 'pings' go over the top of the wide defender with George or Rhys sprinting onto it? Remember, when Norwood's distribution was so effective, we had Jack or Bash overlapping to provide that overload. Now our leverage should be focussed on MGW and Ndaiye, an infield ball and Fleck and Nowood carrying the ball through the midfield past the centre circle, much the same way Fleck, Coutts and Duffy used to to attack and set Billy or Leon up.

Wilderball is dead, and Norwood thinks it is still alive. 65 in 65 is indeed noteworthy, but if the answer to the question 'so what?' is zero, his actual effect is nowt spectacular. And looking across the past two years, it's been much of the same in every game he's played. His goalscoring rate is disappointing, as is his assist rate. Yet people hold him up to the sky like he's the chosen one.

I just don't get it.

pommpey
 

MobileBlade

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Yes, point well made Mobile. But ... and it's a big 'but' ... what did they create? Anyone can clip lofted chips to team-mates 35 metres away. But the opposition know and read our strategy so easily, especially when it goes to Norwood. They know what he's thinking (because it's all he can do) and they simply shift players wide to stop Baldock or RND advancing. Same as last season. How many times does one of his 'pings' go over the top of the wide defender with George or Rhys sprinting onto it? Remember, when Norwood's distribution was so effective, we had Jack or Bash overlapping to provide that overload. Now our leverage should be focussed on MGW and Ndaiye, an infield ball and Fleck and Nowood carrying the ball through the midfield past the centre circle, much the same way Fleck, Coutts and Duffy used to to attack and set Billy or Leon up.

Wilderball is dead, and Norwood thinks it is still alive. 65 in 65 is indeed noteworthy, but if the answer to the question 'so what?' is zero, his actual effect is nowt spectacular. And looking across the past two years, it's been much of the same in every game he's played. His goalscoring rate is disappointing, as is his assist rate. Yet people hold him up to the sky like he's the chosen one.

I just don't get it.

pommpey
He had 3 key passes most of anyone on the pitch.
 

Keen Blade

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It's good of you to point that out, rather than be a snarky twat who drops in every now and then and offers nothing but slaver.

However, many watch it on television, some even contribute to v-blogs too. It doesn't denude their opinion, does it? My point is this, although Norwood finds the man out wide, it isn't a progressive footballing move. Oppositions simply overload what isn't in fact our overload any more. Our receiver always goes backwards. So what's the point? I get it fans think Norwood has a wand of a foot and yeah, he does. But does anything he feeds out to the flanks result in a goal? If not, why? Also if not, why are we doing it? Do you not think oppositions are now inviting him to do it- allowing RND/Enda/George to creep up the wing with their arms up because they know Norwood will try the ping and then they just deploy four out to block the advance, forcing us instantly backwards and across the other side? Rinse and repeat. Nothing actually gets done and it's odds on they'll intercept and counter. It's been the same since last season, possibly post lockdown the season before. Predictable stuff.

When Norwood finds someone central however, we are in a different game. And he never, ever runs with the ball, gains ten, fifteen, twenty metres and puts the opposition on the back foot. I don't need to be at the game to see that, believe me.

pommpey
Absolutely spot on
 

blade67

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I agreed with all that until the Norwood rating! He was the man of the match and his passing was excellent, not pointless. It wasn't his fault that nothing came of it! 😀
Osborn was MOTM apparently :oops:

It's good to see Norwood back dictating the tempo of games. the lads in front of him had an off day, which is not the end of the world. My biggest concern with United ATM is how many chances they give to teams who barely have the ball. Peterborough, Preston and Derby have all had too many chances, despite having little of the play.
 

pommpey

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pommpey
 

blade67

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Spot on ,you dont pick up a lot on TV ,space ,the pace of the game ,the atmosphere ,the whole shape and intensity of the game are lost to TV. You might see a close up replay an things like that but anyone whos played football or who goes regularly knows its not a true refection.
You do know we will now be accused of being 'bigger blades' .
TV is a shit way of watching football. You can't see how tightly marked players higher up the field are for example. So when players go sideways, it gets really frustrating. At the match, if you've played a bit of football you can see the opposition defence is organised and have a bit more patience. That is just one example, but there are loads more.
 

metalblade

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Can't believe this thread is still going round in circles to be honest. Looking at the player marks on the first post Norwood is marked higher than Fleck and MGW yet here we are again slagging him for useless pings to un marked players, I can't really work that one out. Add in to the mix the obligatory low mark for McBurnie and a few lines about sitting on a bankside being outwitted by fish and 80's synth pop and it all gets a bit boring and predictable. Maybe if those out wide when they get the ball set of running and got some chalk on their boots we'd be looking at a different outcome Baldock & Osborn marked 7 don't make me laugh first thing they did when they got the ball was to look who they could pass back to. Norwood was my MOTM not his fault the wide players are scared to take a man on or that there was very little movement down the middle. Got to give Derby a bit of credit too they defended well and still made a few chances. We really should be moaning about the four golden chances we had which we didn't even get on target before we complain about Norwood and McBurnie.
 

Paisley Blade

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In this division Norwood is the least of our problems. Which makes the time and effort some take in deriding him very curious in my opinion.

I thought he was great on Saturday, but then I've always seen spreading the play and making the pitch big as a positive thing.

Try threading the ball through the middle every time you have it, and you won't have it as much as you'd like because you'd keep losing it.

Football is one tough fucker of a game to play when you don't have the ball.
 

Cheesebored

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Yeah. It's 'you' making this about 'me'.

Well done! You're really doing splendid work, Cheeseboard.

(nowt about the match, mind)

pommpey
I'll talk to you all day every day about football, no problem at all. You've been called out, quite rightly IMO, about your strange negativity around Norwood. You're not the first and won't the last to have a boo boy but at least give credit where and when it's due. He's been, arguably, our best player in the last 2 home games. His raking passes to wing backs in space are a joy to watch but somehow his teammates inability to turn good attacking positions into goal scoring chances is, according to you, somehow his fault. That's something about the match for you to mull over.
 

pommpey

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Can't believe this thread is still going round in circles to be honest. Looking at the player marks on the first post Norwood is marked higher than Fleck and MGW yet here we are again slagging him for useless pings to un marked players, I can't really work that one out. Add in to the mix the obligatory low mark for McBurnie and a few lines about sitting on a bankside being outwitted by fish and 80's synth pop and it all gets a bit boring and predictable. Maybe if those out wide when they get the ball set of running and got some chalk on their boots we'd be looking at a different outcome Baldock & Osborn marked 7 don't make me laugh first thing they did when they got the ball was to look who they could pass back to. Norwood was my MOTM not his fault the wide players are scared to take a man on or that there was very little movement down the middle. Got to give Derby a bit of credit too they defended well and still made a few chances. We really should be moaning about the four golden chances we had which we didn't even get on target before we complain about Norwood and McBurnie.

Ooooh. Spiked there metal. Don't think I have mentioned fishing much in 'My take ... ' let alone synthpop so not really sure why you have your pom-poms out on that matter regarding predictability. However when it comes to predictability and Norwood we are in a different matter, as evidenced.

We disagree regarding making of players, Sixty odd passes which terminated in nothing doesn't make him MotM for me, especially when Osborn still shows he has fire in his belly and Baldock is still adapting to a new role of RB rather than RWB and showed mettle against two or three tricky opponents. Can't say Norwood won much of the midfield battles to be honest. He does tend to get rid more quickly than carry, even if there is space in front of him to exploit. And yes, maybe the wingers, full backs do need to be moving into space behind to have Norwood find them rather than receive on the defending side of a ping. As said, when Norwood's pings used to work we were playing a true 3-5-2 with Jack and Bash moving up past the WBs to progress the move. With Slav's 4-2-3-1 any wide ball has limitations and the inside channels through MGW, Osborn and Ndaiye are more the route, even if Osborn isn't a natural AM.

McBurnie? Hope you caught that late cross into the kop end box from wide right which was intercepted by both DCFC CBs and McBurnie two yards behind leaping like a salmon at fresh air. That. I truly want McBurnie (and Brewster, in fact) to come of age and grab two goals in a match and keep some momentum going. But last week we had Egan do that, and Billy himself, so I'm not exactly sure what solution is in place for our blank firing centre forward. Do you?

pommpey
 

pommpey

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I'll talk to you all day every day about football, no problem at all. You've been called out, quite rightly IMO, about your strange negativity around Norwood. You're not the first and won't the last to have a boo boy but at least give credit where and when it's due. He's been, arguably, our best player in the last 2 home games. His raking passes to wing backs in space are a joy to watch but somehow his teammates inability to turn good attacking positions into goal scoring chances is, according to you, somehow his fault. That's something about the match for you to mull over.

Riddle me this:

If, as you say, the recipients of such 'joy to watch' 'raking passes' haven't the ability to do anything with them, then why do them? You do understand what I am illustrating when I say that such pings find players already being closed down and the only route is backwards and across the pitch, don't you?

It seems like he's doing them, not to set up an attack, but simply to please people like you. All very well and good if you like that sort of thing, but I'd rather see him thread a pass through to an advancing MGW or Ndaiye who has lost his marker and is in space advancing into the box.

What, exactly are his goalscoring and assist stats, compared to other players in the midfield?

And finally, I am not a 'boo boy'.

pommpey
 

Cheesebored

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Riddle me this:

If, as you say, the recipients of such 'joy to watch' 'raking passes' haven't the ability to do anything with them, then why do them? You do understand what I am illustrating when I say that such pings find players already being closed down and the only route is backwards and across the pitch, don't you?
I reckon if that's what you're seeing you need to give your screen a wobble. Any balls played forward against Derby were gobbled up by Davies and Jagielka. The proverbial meat and drink. Norwood's passing to wide players was our best way to combat that. Times plenty Osborn recieved the ball with acres to gallop into and his first thought is usually to check back and go sideways. Norwood's fault? Maybe, just maybe, the answer would be to get a winger in.
 

pommpey

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I reckon if that's what you're seeing you need to give your screen a wobble. Any balls played forward against Derby were gobbled up by Davies and Jagielka. The proverbial meat and drink. Norwood's passing to wide players was our best way to combat that. Times plenty Osborn recieved the ball with acres to gallop into and his first thought is usually to check back and go sideways. Norwood's fault? Maybe, just maybe, the answer would be to get a winger in.

I agree that our players have the genetic tendency to receive and pass back. This is a hangover from the days when suddenly the overlapping centreback was dead and oppositions didn't have the spectre of a six foot plus, 15 stone behemoth teararsing outside the bloke with the ball into space to confuse matters. Norwood's pings worked then because oppositions couldn't deal with them, either through Enda or through George.

But those days are gone. The fulcrum for our attack now should be the two skilled attacking midfielders with the wide options being secondary. Watch tonight how oppositions deal with Norwood's distribution and the recipient. Just shift players out to block the advance and force us backward, across the park and up the other wing.

Norwood's involvement in midfield is limited. He does not carry the ball forward even when there is ten, fifteen, twenty metres of fresh air in front of him, stuck in his mind is the Hollywood ball and then it's someone else's problem stuck out there trying to work out what to do with it with just Billy ahead of him being marked by two centrebacks and no one moving forward to progress the attack

pommpey
 

Cheesebored

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Watch tonight how oppositions deal with Norwood's distribution and the recipient. Just shift players out to block the advance and force us backward, across the park and up the other wing.
I agree with much of that post however the crux of where we disagree is that somehow you're blaming Norwood for other players inability to progress the play once found in space. Imagine Sterling in his prime or Salah receiving some of those passes. Pace, balance, goal. The way people label Norwood's passes as Hollywood balls and pings is half the problem. They're just good, skillful passes, nothing more ,nothing less. The ability to cut across the ball the way he does should be applauded not ridiculed.
 

I should coco

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It will be when non-contributors such as you do what you always say you are going to do and stay the fuck out of it. Go start your own thread.

Stay the fuck out; when did I ever say that?

Your bat, your ball and they are clearly on the way back to your house.

Grow up.
 

pommpey

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I agree with much of that post however the crux of where we disagree is that somehow you're blaming Norwood for other players inability to progress the play once found in space. Imagine Sterling in his prime or Salah receiving some of those passes. Pace, balance, goal. The way people label Norwood's passes as Hollywood balls and pings is half the problem. They're just good, skillful passes, nothing more ,nothing less. The ability to cut across the ball the way he does should be applauded not ridiculed.

It is indeed good. But, like I say, if it leads to nothing, why do it?

The answer is because it is clearly the only thing he can do correctly. And it's worthless.

If we had Sterling, Salah or any number of wingers who can do the attacking out there then maybe it is worthy. But with those teams, the CM distributor (or Regista) has a hatful of options available to him to distribute. And can usually carry the ball into the opposition half too (see KDB or Henderson for this)

Oppositions, when they see Norwood get the ball know exactly where its going and plan accordingly.

If most of Norwood's pings led to genuine attempts on goal or even goals, my point is completely invalid. But they don't.

pommpey
 

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