Midfield.

[Grizzly blade]

Wow.

McCall's lack of mobility puts him and Michael Brown behind a midfield containing Paul Coutts?

Yep, because the Coutts of this season is not immobile, far from it.
He is running past players, tracking runners, and constantly on the move to receive the ball all over the pitch. Also shown a turn of pace.

If anyone thinks what he does is easy should try it. And he does this for 90 minutes, and every week since he returned to the side.

But as I say, Brown and McCall didn't keep the ball as well as Coutts and Fleck in my opinion. McCall sat very deep and played the ball forward, with Brown picking up the pieces high up the pitch.

 

[JohnDenver]

. McCall sat very deep and played the ball forward, with Brown picking up the pieces high up the pitch.

Yet McCall at 38 out scored Coutts. I think their roles are very similar, although it should be noted Brown and McCall played in a four whilst Coutts and Fleck play in a five. Plus they played in the league above with real success.

I'll buy your argument if the current pair can match their predecessors. Fingers crossed...

 

[NE Blade]

When Coutts and Fleck drive us to a Championship Play Off Final and two major cup semis then we can talk.

Fleck is a talented player and Coutts has started to turn a corner in the last 10 games but comparing him to McCall is bizarre. McCall regularly played a level higher until he was almost 40? Brown won us countless games with moments of pure magic.

I'm enjoying this season (so far) as much as the next man, but let's not start rewriting history!

 

[sitwell]

McCall scored 2 goals ,and this corner that Coutts is turning ,how many games does he have to excel in before he is accepted as a decent player in some peoples eyes ? Don't see the point in comparisons myself ,we play a different style and different opposition so whats the point ?

 

[NE Blade]

McCall scored 2 goals ,and this corner that Coutts is turning ,how many games does he have to excel in before he is accepted as a decent player in some peoples eyes ? Don't see the point in comparisons myself ,we play a different style and different opposition so whats the point ?

The rest of the season? At the very least until Christmas. It does take a little time to erase the memory of a year's worth of poor performances. You say he has excelled, I think he's done pretty well so far this season. Nothing more. In my opinion he's the sort of player that looks stylish in a winning team with a few nice touches and the ability to pick a pass. He will never be a driving force though. He doesn't grab games by the scruff of the neck and dictate. He doesn't score. He doesn't break up play.

Don't get me wrong he has played his part in the good run that we've had and he deserves praise for that. I think it's a little much to start hailing him as the second coming though.

 

[sitwell]

The rest of the season? At the very least until Christmas. It does take a little time to erase the memory of a year's worth of poor performances. You say he has excelled, I think he's done pretty well so far this season. Nothing more. In my opinion he's the sort of player that looks stylish in a winning team with a few nice touches and the ability to pick a pass. He will never be a driving force though. He doesn't grab games by the scruff of the neck and dictate. He doesn't score. He doesn't break up play.

Don't get me wrong he has played his part in the good run that we've had and he deserves praise for that. I think it's a little much to start hailing him as the second coming though.

But no one is doing that ,you are prone to ridiculous exaggerations and I thought you were against re writing history ? Playing a major part in Sheffield Uniteds 12 match unbeaten run does mean he has excelled as have his team mates. To cast his contribution aside as a few nice touches and ability to pick a pass does you no favours, I don't know if you go to games but if you think that's it ,you cant be watching the same game as me.

 

[Ricky]

Fleck's undoubtedly one we can build around for years to come in any division, problem is that he'll be sold if he continues this form and we don't get promoted.

I think Coutts might have eased up or tired a bit recently. Still playing well but not quite driving us forward as much. Maybe it's due to Fleck taking more of that responsibility. He should've scored yesterday too, it was as good a chance as he'll get. Shame, it would've been a good stepping stone towards a league goal.

 

[NE Blade]

But no one is doing that ,you are prone to ridiculous exaggerations and I thought you were against re writing history ? Playing a major part in Sheffield Uniteds 12 match unbeaten run does mean he has excelled as have his team mates. To cast his contribution aside as a few nice touches and ability to pick a pass does you no favours, I don't know if you go to games but if you think that's it ,you cant be watching the same game as me.

Grizzly is rating Coutts and Fleck as better than McCall and Coutts. That's where the second coming comment came from. As I say Coutts has played his part in a good run and he deserves praise for that. However if I was asked to vote for player of the season so far, Coutts would be no higher than 5th behind Moore, EEL, Fleck and Sharp (not in that order).

On current form Coutts is a good player. Last season he was dreadful. I will be delighted if he keeps this standard up. Even more pleased if he adds some form of end product to his game.

 

[Tyler Durden]

When Coutts and Fleck drive us to a Championship Play Off Final and two major cup semis then we can talk.

Fleck is a talented player and Coutts has started to turn a corner in the last 10 games but comparing him to McCall is bizarre. McCall regularly played a level higher until he was almost 40? Brown won us countless games with moments of pure magic.

I'm enjoying this season (so far) as much as the next man, but let's not start rewriting history!

Precisely right.

Coutts is evidently no McCall or Brown, but he's this seasons designated golden boy so I suppose we'll have to get in line.

 

[Barney]

Precisely right.

Coutts is evidently no McCall or Brown, but he's this seasons designated golden boy so I suppose we'll have to get in line.

I think we must be the only set of fans that sub consciously try to re balance the history of a player that has been shit for his entire contract prior to the start of this season. Done by noticeably over dramatising performances in the one time he's put together a run that goes against his dire record in the other 90% of his time at the club.

 

[Grizzly blade]

I am saying that I prefer the midfield of Coutts and Fleck than the 38 year old McCall and Brown.

McCall in his prime.....of course not. But we didn't have his prime did we.
I merely stated I think the midfield at the moment is possibly the best I have seen. Yes we have had the odd bit of genuine quality....Brown for one season was incredible....McDonald was a different class....but to have two technically gifted, fit, and quality players at their prime at the same time?? I don't recall seeing it in my time going to support this club.

Sadly, we have put up with graft first and foremost over ability and fallen behind the times. Midfield wins and loses games, and is where we have struggled the most, even in times where we could deem us to have done relatively well.


As for Coutts looking good in a winning side.....cobblers. We weren't a winning side when he came into the side! And saying he would be 5th behind EEL, Moore, and Sharp in player of the season....is frankly laughable.
At this current time, Fleck based on the last 5 games has been head and shoulders above the rest. Before that Coutts was pulling the strings on his own. We are now seeing two top players capable of playing higher sharing the burden and workload. They work well together, and I can say confidently that both will be drawing the attention of their national manager.

As far as Coutts is concerned it is his second coming. He was signed to be this player when he regained his fitness. Adkins didn't know what he had at his disposal and chose our traditional player...i.e. Graft and little else.
He is now fully fit, getting fitter and showing the player he always was. He could be slated for last season.....but on that basis so should Freeman, Scougall....instead of laying blame at the real problem...and thankfully we sacked that useless twat and brought in a genuine manager!
So it is a second coming yes....the arrival of a top quality midfielder who along with the other one will take us up.

 

[Grizzly blade]

I think we must be the only set of fans that sub consciously try to re balance the history of a player that has been shit for his entire contract prior to the start of this season. Done by noticeably over dramatising performances in the one time he's put together a run that goes against his dire record of the other 90% of his time at the club.

Or perhaps have an offset number of fans who would rather focus on the past as opposed to the future, as well as having a lack of understanding and appreciation of the job he does for this winning team. Let's take him out and replace him with Basham? Or how about one of our young stars who get special dispensation for coming through the academy?

What he does makes the defenders job so much easier, makes his fellow midfielders jobs easier. And it's that lack of appreciation of what he brings and makes look so effortless that draws such blinkered opinions.

 

[Barney]

Or perhaps have an offset number of fans who would rather focus on the past as opposed to the future, as well as having a lack of understanding and appreciation of the job he does for this winning team. Let's take him out and replace him with Basham? Or how about one of our young stars who get special dispensation for coming through the academy?

What he does makes the defenders job so much easier, makes his fellow midfielders jobs easier. And it's that lack of appreciation of what he brings and makes look so effortless that draws such blinkered opinions.

Haven't said to replace him with anybody. Just not to get carried away and inflate the truth.

A history of poor performances does not make average performances good, or good performances great.

 

[Grizzly blade]

Precisely right.

Coutts is evidently no McCall or Brown, but he's this seasons designated golden boy so I suppose we'll have to get in line.

As opposed to last seasons boo boy.....must hurt the feelings of those who were on his back and so scathing of the man both personally and professionally. I mean he was apparently a wage thief, lazy, lacking professionalism and good attitude....oddly completely contrary to the opinion of the man rightly credited with turning the club around.
Thankfully Wilder is one fan who is able to admit he was wrong in his judgement and move on.

 

[Grizzly blade]

Haven't said to replace him with anybody. Just not to get carried away and inflate the truth.

A history of poor performances does not make a good performance great.

So you are stuck in history and resolute that his current performances are nothing special.
If nothing special....let's wait and see what happens when he misses some games....as he will through injury or suspension.

 

[Barney]

So you are stuck in history and resolute that his current performances are nothing special.
If nothing special....let's wait and see what happens when he misses some games....as he will through injury or suspension.

No...I'm saying average performances are not good and good performances are not great. But it appears a lot of our fans seem to sub consciously try to think so in order to balance his history of poor performances.

 

[Grizzly blade]

Yet McCall at 38 out scored Coutts. I think their roles are very similar, although it should be noted Brown and McCall played in a four whilst Coutts and Fleck play in a five. Plus they played in the league above with real success.

I'll buy your argument if the current pair can match their predecessors. Fingers crossed...

Yes they played in the league above over 10 years ago. And you are right about this being a different team and shape.
Hence why I like it....I like us controlling play, dictating play, moving the ball quickly from one side to the other and being able to string passes together and keep possession in the attacking third.
And the best bit is that we continue to get better as understanding continues to build.

Strongest central midfield pairing in league one by a country mile for me. Scunny are top of the league and seeing them a fair bit I can say without question we are stronger there than they are.

 

[Tyler Durden]

As opposed to last seasons boo boy.....must hurt the feelings of those who were on his back and so scathing of the man both personally and professionally. I mean he was apparently a wage thief, lazy, lacking professionalism and good attitude....oddly completely contrary to the opinion of the man rightly credited with turning the club around.
Thankfully Wilder is one fan who is able to admit he was wrong in his judgement and move on.

Erm, he was shit last season. No amount of revisionism will change that.
Now he's adequate, that's a welcome improvement.

In the same way that it must hurt your feelings that our current top goal scorer is somebody who you seem determined to dislike. I guess we're all a bit partial at times eh?

 

[Grizzly blade]

No...I'm saying average performances are not good and good performances are not great. But it appears a lot of our fans seem to sub consciously try to think so in order to balance his history of poor performances.

So Coutts has been average to good....nothing more? Oh dear!!
He cannot be putting great performances out there because last season he was poor? Says a lot!

For the record, there are fans who didn't think he was poor last season but was badly utilised of his ability. I would say the same for Scougall....and a few others.
Compared to very many previous seasons our midfield now is great.

Contrary to this, perhaps we should say Sharp has been average at best. After all, in his previous times at the club he was not doing the job required. But for the last 3 games he has been excellent and a significant improvement on earlier performances.

 

[Grizzly blade]

Erm, he was shit last season. No amount of revisionism will change that.
Now he's adequate, that's a welcome improvement.

In the same way that it must hurt your feelings that our current top goal scorer is somebody who you seem determined to dislike. I guess we're all a bit partial at times eh?

That's your opinion. You were wrong.
Whereas without seeing your post I had already stated Sharp has been excellent recently....hmmm??
I don't think I have labelled Sharp a parasite...a wage thief....lazy, useless etc etc! Questioned his performances in the current team yes, but credit to him he has improved recently which is what I wanted.

He has raised his game, let's see if Sharp can sustain it for a similar period of games that Coutts is expected to.

 

[Barney]

So Coutts has been average to good....nothing more? Oh dear!!
He cannot be putting great performances out there because last season he was poor? Says a lot!

For the record, there are fans who didn't think he was poor last season but was badly utilised of his ability. I would say the same for Scougall....and a few others.
Compared to very many previous seasons our midfield now is great.

Contrary to this, perhaps we should say Sharp has been average at best. After all, in his previous times at the club he was not doing the job required. But for the last 3 games he has been excellent and a significant improvement on earlier performances.

Why do you make up points, proclaim them to be ones I've made then reply to them?

Why do you not read posts exactly?

 

[Tyler Durden]

That's your opinion. You were wrong.
Whereas without seeing your post I had already stated Sharp has been excellent recently....hmmm??
I don't think I have labelled Sharp a parasite...a wage thief....lazy, useless etc etc! Questioned his performances in the current team yes, but credit to him he has improved recently which is what I wanted.

He has raised his game, let's see if Sharp can sustain it for a similar period of games that Coutts is expected to.

It was a team of parasites and wage theives, hence why so many were offloaded, because I was right. I never singled out Coutts.
Billy Sharp never needed to raise his game. His goals saved us from a relegation dogfight last season and might just fire us to promotion this season. I'm still not comparing him to Deane or Agana on the basis of a particularly fertile recent spell as you have with Coutts vis a vis McCall and Brown.

Because that would be ridiculous....

 

[Grizzly blade]

Why do you make up points, proclaim them to be ones I've made then reply to them?

Why do you not read posts exactly?

I have interpreted your points based on what you said. Average is not good...good is not great.
Suggests he might have been good...nothing more,
A lot of our fans seem to over compensate for a history of poor performances....so you refuse to look at what he does now without balancing it out with the past.

As a counter argument I suggest Sharp....was crap when poorly utilised against his strengths in past seasons with us. But now he's scoring he is superb? Can't we apply a similar argument as Coutts to Sharp? Ignore the past, look at the now and to the future.

Would I like Fleck and Coutts beyond January...definitely. In the Championship....without doubt.
Is there any other players in this league I would swap either for....no.
Is there any player in our budget we could realistically buy who are better?....no.
Ask yourself the same questions and be honest in your answers. I would be genuinely happy to have these players identified to me.

 

[Barney]

A lot of our fans seem to over compensate for a history of poor performances....so you refuse to look at what he does now without balancing it out with the past.

That is exactly what I'm talking about right there. The bit in bold is a wild inference and not true.

It's like me saying you like Apples so you don't like Oranges.

 

[NE Blade]

At this current time, Fleck based on the last 5 games has been head and shoulders above the rest. Before that Coutts was pulling the strings on his own. We are now seeing two top players capable of playing higher sharing the burden and workload. They work well together, and I can say confidently that both will be drawing the attention of their national manager.

So let's get his right. If I want to objectively asses Paul Coutts I need to forget last season entirely and focus on the ten games or so that he's played this season. Except, I'm to disregard the last five games where Fleck has been head and shoulders above him. The five games before that. That was the REAL Paul Coutts?

I see you've used the word blinkered. Yet you believe Coutt's contribution has been better than Billy Sharp's 10 goals and anyone disagreeing with this is 'laughable'?

 

[Grizzly blade]

Whereas you are saying McCall and Brown were similar in importance to that of Deana and Agana?

Clearly they weren't a team full of parasites, wage thieves, lazy whatever's or talentless twats! Otherwise the lot would have gone. so you were wrong. Wilder wouldn't stand for it, and mentioned very early on how impressed he was with the attitudes of certain players who have remained. Perhaps judgement from the stands based on the past is a mistake when not knowing the full story?

 

[NE Blade]

Perhaps Spurs will be coming in with a bid for Coutts come the beginning of January?

 

[Grizzly blade]

So let's get his right. If I want to objectively asses Paul Coutts I need to forget last season entirely and focus on the ten games or so that he's played this season. Except, I'm to disregard the last five games where Fleck has been head and shoulders above him. The five games before that. That was the REAL Paul Coutts?

I see you've used the word blinkered. Yet you believe Coutt's contribution has been better than Billy Sharp's 10 goals and anyone disagreeing with this is 'laughable'?

Nope. Midfield wins or loses games. If it's not up to the job you don't create chances for Sharp, and you cause problems for the defence.
Sharp was playing in the losing team. He is now playing in the winning team. Keeping it very simplistic, we now have a midfield controlling the game. Coutts coming into that midfield is the only constant since the change in results started.
We have seen Bash in there, Fleck...Duffy, Scougall...but the only constant is Coutts. So on that basis, it would be a fair assessment to say his arrival in the team has been the biggest catalyst to the change in performance in midfield, and thus the upturn in results. Chance creation is far higher and Sharp is reaping the rewards.

So to say Coutts would be behind Sharp in any thoughts about player of the season or having an impact is laughable. Because simply Sharp is not in any position to influence the game as Coutts and now Fleck.

For the record....I actually think Fleck is a better all round player than Coutts. But he wasn't fit and has also been injured.

 

[Tyler Durden]

Whereas you are saying McCall and Brown were similar in importance to that of Deana and Agana?

Clearly they weren't a team full of parasites, wage thieves, lazy whatever's or talentless twats! Otherwise the lot would have gone. so you were wrong. Wilder wouldn't stand for it, and mentioned very early on how impressed he was with the attitudes of certain players who have remained. Perhaps judgement from the stands based on the past is a mistake when not knowing the full story?

Again, pure revisionism on your part. I don't recall you defending last seasons squad to the hilt, or saying "Mark my words Paul Coutts will be the next Michael Brown this time next season" as it happens.

Wilder presided over the biggest clearout in recent memory, bigger than even I expected actually, thereby confirming what I knew all along. Some retained players surprised me yes, I was wrong about Freeman for instance and I'm glad I was.

However, I'm not the one who started out making daft comparisons to players from 14 years ago on the basis of three months work. Which was the founding premise of this whole debate.

 

[Wards]

Coutts was a cancer on us last year - couldn't be further from that player this season. Showing his ability and character that I never knew he possessed. First name on the teamsheet at the minute