Mcburnie and mousett

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Mike325 said:
Leave them both on bench in fact say stay at home lads you make no difference whatsoever
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The only piece of quality today from us came from McB, when he controlled the ball near the half way line, beat the first and second players and put through an accurate pass.
Other than Egan no one else managed anything like that.
 
No striker is going to make any difference to this side whilst we’re giving the ball away 25 yards from our own goal. Our answer to not being good enough in midfield is seemingly trying to play out from the back triggering the press and then trying to play through that press with players who’s confidence is rock bottom and who aren’t technically good enough to do that. Our strikers aren’t perfect but until they’re missing sitter after sitter I’m not sure I’d pick them out as the major problem
 
CarlMcBlade said:
I don’t want to throw the baby out with the bath water. But I am now very willing to put Fleck in the same taxi as Norwood and Lundstram.
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He’s not on my must leave list because he’s had a serious injury and then that mysterious illness when he was hospitalised but I’m not sure I’d be comfortable with him being a nailed on starter next year a quality first team player needs to be brought in for his position in the summer and if he does start he needs to have beaten out that player for the shirt.
 
Yogi said:
He’s not on my must leave list because he’s had a serious injury and then that mysterious illness when he was hospitalised but I’m not sure I’d be comfortable with him being a nailed on starter next year a quality first team player needs to be brought in for his position in the summer and if he does start he needs to have beaten out that player for the shirt.
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But every time he’s been out of the team for any period of time. It takes him far too long to get up to speed, on his return.
 
CarlMcBlade said:
But every time he’s been out of the team for any period of time. It takes him far too long to get up to speed, on his return.
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I agree he’s far from perfect and has been disappointing this year. I’m just not 100 percent sure he’s a scrap heap player yet unlike certain others. Like I said I’d rather he start pre season as a bench player and have to show he’s better than whoever we sign to fill the position than him start next year as the incumbent.
 
Yogi said:
I agree he’s far from perfect and has been disappointing this year. I’m just not 100 percent sure he’s a scrap heap player yet unlike certain others. Like I said I’d rather he start pre season as a bench player and have to show he’s better than whoever we sign to fill the position than him start next year as the incumbent.
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This midfield is unbelievably dysfunctional, so i'd actually give him a go in a new look midfield as a starter. He was very good last year. See if he starts off hot, and if not then it would be time to lose faith.
 
1987 said:
This midfield is unbelievably dysfunctional, so i'd actually give him a go in a new look midfield as a starter. He was very good last year. See if he starts off hot, and if not then it would be time to lose faith.
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I just don’t think there’s many players who should be guaranteed a starting shirt after this season debacle for me he stays but we need at 3 starting caliber centremids in the summer. If come the first game of the season John fleck has demonstrated he is one of the best 2 or three players in that position at the club and gets a starting berth then all power to him. However right now as far as I’m concerned for next year that shirt is vacant and if he wants it he needs to earn it all over again.
 
Yogi said:
I just don’t think there’s many players who should be guaranteed a starting shirt after this season debacle for me he stays but we need at 3 starting caliber centremids in the summer. If come the first game of the season John fleck has demonstrated he is one of the best 2 or three players in that position at the club and gets a starting berth then all power to him. However right now as far as I’m concerned for next year that shirt is vacant and if he wants it he needs to earn it all over again.
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Couldnt argue with that bud. Our midfield have been embarrassingly ineffective for the most part. Sub championship standard shirkers to be frank.

From my end I just cant see us getting 3 starting central midfielders in the summer. So realistically you probably have to pick at least one to be in your starting plans, and he would be the one I think.
 
1987 said:
Couldnt argue with that bud. Our midfield have been embarrassingly ineffective for the most part. Sub championship standard shirkers to be frank.

From my end I just cant see us getting 3 starting central midfielders in the summer. So realistically you probably have to pick at least one to be in your starting plans, and he would be the one I think.
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If I have to pick one it’s him hands down as he’s the most complete midfielder out of those we have. Lunny will be gone and not soon enough and Norwood has limitations that I don’t think can be overcome.

With reference to 3 midfielders not coming in I’ll be extremely concerned if they don’t. If they don’t come in our midfield depth will be shocking thin. It would leave us with
fleck (coming of a concerning down year)
Norwood (deficiencies extensively exposed)
Berge (realistically already gone)
Osborn (probably a left wingback than midfielder but useful as Versatile cover)
slater (bit part league one player thus far)
brunt (untested in men’s football)
neal (untested in men’s football)
Maguire (not really a full under 23s player yet).

That midfield isn’t even mid table championship standard it needs serious investment if we have ambitions to challenge. I’m targeting 3 in because realistically I think it’ll be 3 out in Lunny, Norwood and Berge so bringing in 3 allows us to maintain this years numbers even though that has seen us stretched.
 
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Yogi said:
I agree he’s far from perfect and has been disappointing this year. I’m just not 100 percent sure he’s a scrap heap player yet unlike certain others. Like I said I’d rather he start pre season as a bench player and have to show he’s better than whoever we sign to fill the position than him start next year as the incumbent.
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I’m not sure either. But I feel the talented ones (Fleck is one) are much more culpable for our predicament than the players, who are just simply out of their depth.
 
Yogi said:
If I have to pick one it’s him hands down as he’s the most complete midfielder out of those we have. Lunny will be gone and not soon enough and Norwood has limitations that I don’t think can be overcome.

With reference to 3 midfielders not coming in I’ll be extremely concerned if they don’t. If they don’t come in our midfield depth will be shocking thin. It would leave us with
fleck (coming of a concerning down year)
Norwood (deficiencies extensively exposed)
Berge (realistically already gone)
Osborn (probably a left wingback than midfielder but useful as Versatile cover)
slater (bit part league one player thus far)
brunt (untested in men’s football)
neal (untested in men’s football)
Maguire (not really a full under 23s player yet).

That midfield isn’t even mid table championship standard it needs serious investment if we have ambitions to challenge. I’m targeting 3 in because realistically I think it’ll be 3 out in Lunny, Norwood and Berge so bringing in 3 allows us to maintain this years numbers even though that has seen us stretched.
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The big issue with what you're saying is going out and buying x3 centre midfielders who will be nailed on starters in a team vying for promotion is going to be bloody hard / nigh on impossible.

As tempting as it is to throw several babies out with a swimming pool sized bit of bath water, I'm just not sure how realistic that is - and actually would see us worse off. Anyone remember the Lee Evans/Ryan Leonard period?

Once we're back in the championship and have a full pre-season, get fans back in the stadium, I'm predicting Fleck and Norwood return to some semblance of the players we recognise. We just need x2 athletic players to put around them and do all the heavy lifting.
 
Hi Stegosaurus here,

People bash Lundstram, but Mousset is just as bad, if not worse. Lunny has at least kept fit enough to play for 90 minutes. Mousset can't even be arsed to do that. He's a complete embarassment of a footballer just collecting his too-high wages and eating kebabs.
 
IdLiketoRogerMoore said:
The big issue with what you're saying is going out and buying x3 centre midfielders who will be nailed on starters in a team vying for promotion is going to be bloody hard / nigh on impossible.

As tempting as it is to throw several babies out with a swimming pool sized bit of bath water, I'm just not sure how realistic that is - and actually would see us worse off. Anyone remember the Lee Evans/Ryan Leonard period?

Once we're back in the championship and have a full pre-season, get fans back in the stadium, I'm predicting Fleck and Norwood return to some semblance of the players we recognise. We just need x2 athletic players to put around them and do all the heavy lifting.
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I agree finding 3 will be difficult but it’s the boat we’ve gotten ourselves into. Because conceivably 3 are leaving this summer in Lunny, Berge and Norwood. It’s one of the reasons Berge’s value to us should be so high because his exits creates a recruitment problem for us in the summer.

My concerns for Norwood are not that the championship standard will be too good for him but what the effects of being embarrassed weekly this year will be long term. How long will it take him to stop playing within himself again? Because a Norwood who has no belief in himself and passes sideways and backwards has no value to the side.

When it comes to the recruitment I’d expect us to be looking in several different pots for those players in order to keep the cost down. Some will be on loan, others will be cheap gambles both domestic and foreign with only a couple of marquee signings across the squad. Will it work? Probably not immediately but the longer these performances drag on I think the bigger the jolt needed to snap the players out of it will be.
 
Yogi said:
I agree finding 3 will be difficult but it’s the boat we’ve gotten ourselves into. Because conceivably 3 are leaving this summer in Lunny, Berge and Norwood. It’s one of the reasons Berge’s value to us should be so high because his exits creates a recruitment problem for us in the summer.

My concerns for Norwood are not that the championship standard will be too good for him but what the effects of being embarrassed weekly this year will be long term. How long will it take him to stop playing within himself again? Because a Norwood who has no belief in himself and passes sideways and backwards has no value to the side.

When it comes to the recruitment I’d expect us to be looking in several different pots for those players in order to keep the cost down. Some will be on loan, others will be cheap gambles both domestic and foreign with only a couple of marquee signings across the squad. Will it work? Probably not immediately but the longer these performances drag on I think the bigger the jolt needed to snap the players out of it will be.
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It's not being wise after the event it's exactly why I was bewildered as to why we didn't bring at least one in last Summer so this Summer we'd only need another 1 or 2...

We've got literally x4 LBs on the books for next season and will have x3 center mids...

Something has gone array here and means we're going to find it a lot tougher than we realise next season against championship sides that have been together and are very well drilled.
 
I agree that Fleck has been anonymous but I think that is a symptom of whole team performance and other players around him not performing. He used to link up with Enda and JOC but it isn’t happening. I did see him yesterday try to do a 1-2 with Osborn. Fleck went on the overlap waiting for return pass that didn’t come as Osborn passed it sideways and backwards
 
IdLiketoRogerMoore said:
It's not being wise after the event it's exactly why I was bewildered as to why we didn't bring at least one in last Summer so this Summer we'd only need another 1 or 2...

We've got literally x4 LBs on the books for next season and will have x3 center mids...

Something has gone array here and means we're going to find it a lot tougher than we realise next season against championship sides that have been together and are very well drilled.
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Yeah we’ve got a very lopsided squad going into the summer with leftbacks, strikers and goalkeepers making up more than half the 25 man group.

Its why I think we’ll have to do a considerable amount of business this summer we need quality and depth at both centremid and centrehalf.
 
Yogi said:
Yeah we’ve got a very lopsided squad going into the summer with leftbacks, strikers and goalkeepers making up more than half the 25 man group.

Its why I think we’ll have to do a considerable amount of business this summer we need quality and depth at both centremid and centrehalf.
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With the benefit of hindsight, a lot of last Summer's transfers seem to be somewhat baffling... Lowe, Foderingham, Brewster, Burke made little sense at the time based on who was already here and have turned out to be absolute unmitigated disasters and are the nugget of shit that won't flush on Wilder's final year with us.
 
IdLiketoRogerMoore said:
With the benefit of hindsight, a lot of last Summer's transfers seem to be somewhat baffling... Lowe, Foderingham, Brewster, Burke made little sense at the time based on who was already here and have turned out to be absolute unmitigated disasters and are the nugget of shit that won't flush on Wilder's final year with us.
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Foderingham I found most confusing we had 3 senior goalkeepers on our books now obviously Moore wasn’t fit but 2 fit senior keepers is enough. Brewster made sense to me at the time our weakness last year was goal scoring so he was part of the solution to that the problem is he needed to come in conjunction with an expansive creative midfielder.
 
Yogi said:
Foderingham I found most confusing we had 3 senior goalkeepers on our books now obviously Moore wasn’t fit but 2 fit senior keepers is enough. Brewster made sense to me at the time our weakness last year was goal scoring so he was part of the solution to that the problem is he needed to come in conjunction with an expansive creative midfielder.
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Wouldn't disagree. And we've done the lack of attention to midfield to death.

Lowe seemed a strange one to me, with Stevens, Osborn and RND already in the building (short/medium/long term options at LB) - wasting a squad place on another LB when we saw what happened when Egan and/or Basham were missing even when we were playing well. From just the two Man Utd games last season you had a microcosm of what happens when Egan is out, yet last Summer we opted to stick with Jags and crossing fingers Egan doesn't get a long term injury as our Plan B.

Brewster - I see the logic in that signing but it was so far from what we need/needed that that logic is stretched to breaking point. Hopefully in time that proves to be an inspired signing, but I'm not holding my breath..
 
IdLiketoRogerMoore said:
Wouldn't disagree. And we've done the lack of attention to midfield to death.

Lowe seemed a strange one to me, with Stevens, Osborn and RND already in the building (short/medium/long term options at LB) - wasting a squad place on another LB when we saw what happened when Egan and/or Basham were missing even when we were playing well. From just the two Man Utd games last season you had a microcosm of what happens when Egan is out, yet last Summer we opted to stick with Jags and crossing fingers Egan doesn't get a long term injury as our Plan B.

Brewster - I see the logic in that signing but it was so far from what we need/needed that that logic is stretched to breaking point. Hopefully in time that proves to be an inspired signing, but I'm not holding my breath..
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The Lowe one confuses me aswell but because he’s part of a double deal it’s murkier if he was a cheap add on as part of the bogle deal and we thought the price for him was too good to turn down then yeah I get it but if it was anything like 7 figures then it’s completely nonsensical.

Our lack of depth at centrehalf for either of the two wide positions is criminal we have no adequate cover/competition for JOC or Basham. Ampadu maybe but he seems like a versatility acquisition which is fine but eventually you need bodies. It’s alright saying ampadu can cover both those slot and it’s true he can but as we’ve found out that’s no good when both those players are out.

I like Brewster I like the way he strikes a ball and I’ve seen improvement in his off the ball game his issue like all our strikers is they’re going to look like dog turds because we create nothing.
 
Yogi said:
The Lowe one confuses me aswell but because he’s part of a double deal it’s murkier if he was a cheap add on as part of the bogle deal and we thought the price for him was too good to turn down then yeah I get it but if it was anything like 7 figures then it’s completely nonsensical.

Our lack of depth at centrehalf for either of the two wide positions is criminal we have no adequate cover/competition for JOC or Basham. Ampadu maybe but he seems like a versatility acquisition which is fine but eventually you need bodies. It’s alright saying ampadu can cover both those slot and it’s true he can but as we’ve found out that’s no good when both those players are out.

I like Brewster I like the way he strikes a ball and I’ve seen improvement in his off the ball game his issue like all our strikers is they’re going to look like dog turds because we create nothing.
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Even if Lowe was free then it's a wasted wage as we already have x3 LBs on the payroll. Bonkers decision.

Definitely a player in there with Brewster but again as we already had McBurnie, Mousset, Sharp, Burke on the payroll as Number 9's, spending the money we did on another player who can only play as a 9 seemed once again bonkers... If he could also play as a 10 or as a wide player in another system, then maybe, but like I say, time will judge that signing as the one that finally did for Wilder. When McBurnie and Brewster score 20 each next year and we get 100points, maybe we'll owe r'Chris an apology...

Just as in the NFL, Head Coaches/GMs are judged by the QB the draft/trade for - Tufty will be judged on his PL signings (or what he didn't sign) and ultimately this is the real reason he's no longer at the club...
 
IdLiketoRogerMoore said:
Even if Lowe was free then it's a wasted wage as we already have x3 LBs on the payroll. Bonkers decision.

Definitely a player in there with Brewster but again as we already had McBurnie, Mousset, Sharp, Burke on the payroll as Number 9's, spending the money we did on another player who can only play as a 9 seemed once again bonkers... If he could also play as a 10 or as a wide player in another system, then maybe, but like I say, time will judge that signing as the one that finally did for Wilder. When McBurnie and Brewster score 20 each next year and we get 100points, maybe we'll owe r'Chris an apology...

Just as in the NFL, Head Coaches/GMs are judged by the QB the draft/trade for - Tufty will be judged on his PL signings (or what he didn't sign) and ultimately this is the real reason he's no longer at the club...
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Yeah the outlay versus return on wilders Prem recruitment in the short term definitely strained his relationship with the prince. We recruited this summer as if we were a Leicester or a wolves with a good prem team already in place and looking forward to what the next iteration of the squad would be but we just didn’t have the foundations in place to do that yet.
 
not even championship players this lot utter embarrasment needs a nuke through core its rotten full of arrogant cocky twats to boot get the chavs & lazy cunts out get some proper players in, oh wait we let those ones go i wonder why?... baldock is norwood mark2 waves his fucking arms about when we concede do your job & we wouldnt, i wont go into the rest disgrace to be taking the wage home after shithows theyve turned out
 

Hockey'sBeard said:
I agree that Fleck has been anonymous but I think that is a symptom of whole team performance and other players around him not performing. He used to link up with Enda and JOC but it isn’t happening. I did see him yesterday try to do a 1-2 with Osborn. Fleck went on the overlap waiting for return pass that didn’t come as Osborn passed it sideways and backwards
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Don't think we will ever see the old Fleck again. It is a bit like a florescent light tube that has stopped working. If you twist it around a bit it sometimes briefly flickers back to life and stays on for a bit before stopping working again. The reality is it is finished and needs replacing. Fleck is bit like that. Every now and then you see a brief glimpse of what he used to be able to do but it does not happen vey often and never for a sustained period.
 
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