Martin Samuel...Pt. 897

[BornOnShorehamStreet]

Sorry but read the article and it makes sense. I agree with him here.

Yup me too

 

[BornOnShorehamStreet]

As for the Evans link, well, he is there to be shot at as a convicted rapist. And I agree, he shouldn't have been included in the L1 team of the year, knowing what we knew. I don't recall the PFA getting all het up about this issue though, when it would have been easy to take a positive stand.

Did Porky get all het up about it at the time? Sorry - can't remember if he did.

 

[Highbury_Blade]

Here's something sensible on the subject

http://twohundredpercent.net/?p=22777

 

[axel smeets]

Anyone else get pissed off with all this 'n word' bollocks? It insults the intelligence of the reader to have such wishy washy censorship.

 

[Highbury_Blade]

Saw him waaaaay back in 99, when i did the sound engineering for one of his gigs. Top bloke.

In fact i've just remembered, that when i was back at De Montfort union he was a semi regular compere for our fortnightly comedy nights. I laugh when i see what gigs he does now, as none of the students would actually pay to see the comedy, so we often used to have him on in the canteen....

 

[Foxy]

Saw him waaaaay back in 99, when i did the sound engineering for one of his gigs. Top bloke.

We saw him a few years ago at the City Hall with Steve Hughes, was quite a good one.

Getting back to the matter at hand, I think SouthEssexBlade called it pretty much how I was going to

 

[sitwell]

Im confused is 'Nigger' racist but 'Nigga' cool ?

 

[Blackheath Blade]

Somebody standing up for morality who has always constantly backed West Ham in the Tevez affair, more than smacks of hypocrisy.

Football generally and the PFA especially really have got themselves in a state of total confusion over race issues. Reginald D Hunter is a comedic commentator on race, prejudice and the nonsense it creates. Most of his observations are grounded in personal experience, yet the PFA run around like a kid caught with his hand in the sweetie jar, uttering apologies to anyone who will listen because he used a few words they feel are inappropriate. No, it was inappropriate when Suarez used it (should his name have been withdrawn ?) to have a go at Evra, but in the context as used by Mr Hunter it is certainly not breaching appropriateness. Time to grow up on this issue, but then football isn't really very grown up on plenty of things less important than race/racism.

Post of the week so far. Absolutely spot on my friend.

 

[Blackheath Blade]

And just for good measure, while I accept that a number of you don't feel that Samuels' comments represent a dig at The Blades, the man is, by his history and historic comments, a vile, ugly turd who will always take the opportunity to stoke the fire that still smoulders over what happened six years ago.
An absolute cunt-bag of a journalist.

 

[Bladesway]

And just for good measure, while I accept that a number of you don't feel that Samuels' comments represent a dig at The Blades, the man is, by his history and historic comments, a vile, ugly turd who will always take the opportunity to stoke the fire that still smoulders over what happened six years ago.
An absolute cunt-bag of a journalist.

I dont give a shit about him. If i dont read his work then isnt that the biggest fuck off you can give to the man. Unless some chip on each shoulder type here posts stuff i dont entertain him.

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

Im confused is 'Nigger' racist but 'Nigga' cool ?

Merely people trying to be 'street' innit doh! Like wid da 'Gangsta' rather than the more correct 'Gangster'.

As for the word itself, context is everything. Use it towards my missus and you're likely to get your head kicked off (literally), but if she chooses to use it to describe herself (which she wouldn't) then it's cool.

 

[Darren]

I disagree, he actions should have rendered him ineligible for the award.

Not a direct comparison of course, but would you consider Ben Johnson to be Olympic 100m Champion in 1988? He won the race after all.

As Sitwell has pointed out, this is hardly a direct analogy. Johnson cheated at the 100M, hence he was stripped of his title. Had Johndon been convicted of rape the day after he won the 100M I would still consider him the 1988 Olympic 100M champion, as would the IOC and everyone else.

If fact, I don't think anyone has ever been stripped of his sporting titles because of misconduct unconnected with his performance in the sport in question. Do you know of anyone?

 

[Darren]

Merely people trying to be 'street' innit doh! Like wid da 'Gangsta' rather than the more correct 'Gangster'.

As for the word itself, context is everything. Use it towards my missus and you're likely to get your head kicked off (literally), but if she chooses to use it to describe herself (which she wouldn't) then it's cool.

I feel like banging my head against a brick wall 382 times when people still seem unable to appreciate that racism does not inhere forever and for all time in words themselves, but that context is everything. Thus a member of the BNP calling a black person "nigger" is racist (because it is said with racist intent), whereas two achingly self conscious black ganster rappers calling each other "nigga" is not racist because of the lack of racist intent.

 

[JJ Sefton]

I feel like banging my head against a brick wall 382 times when people still seem unable to appreciate that racism does not inhere forever and for all time in words themselves, but that context is everything. Thus a member of the BNP calling a black person "nigger" is racist (because it is said with racist intent), whereas two achingly self conscious black ganster rappers calling each other "nigga" is not racist because of the lack of racist intent.

What if a white person uses it without racist intent?

 

[Darren]

What if a white person uses it without racist intent?

You'd have great difficulty proving you didn't have racist intent, so it's best avoided.

This really isn't rocket science. If you think the person you are speaking to will be offended by a certain way of speaking to them, it's best avoided. That's just common decency.

 

[JJ Sefton]

You'd have great difficulty proving you didn't have racist intent, so it's best avoided.

This really isn't rocket science. If you think the person you are speaking to will be offended by a certain way of speaking to them, it's best avoided. That's just common decency.

White kids by me use it all the time, often around their black mates, and almost always in some stupid faux west Indian accent. On the 230 bus recently I heard one white kid call his white mate "ma nigga".

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

I feel like banging my head against a brick wall 382 times when people still seem unable to appreciate that racism does not inhere forever and for all time in words themselves, but that context is everything. Thus a member of the BNP calling a black person "nigger" is racist (because it is said with racist intent), whereas two achingly self conscious black ganster rappers calling each other "nigga" is not racist because of the lack of racist intent.

Isn't that what I said?

And by the way, take the colour out of it. If someone black called my missus 'nigger' she'd kick their ass as well, as she finds the term offensive when directed at her by anybody. The word may have been 'reclaimed' but plenty of black people still don't like to be personally tagged as such and see it as demeaning at best and offensively rascist at worst.

 

[sitwell]

Martin Samuel (spit) referred to 'Whiteys' in his article ,is that not racist ?

 

[JJ Sefton]

Martin Samuel (spit) referred to 'Whiteys' in his article ,is that not racist ?

I've always wondered why black comedians can get away with saying things about white people in routines which would end any white comedians career if he said them about black people.

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

Martin Samuel (spit) referred to 'Whiteys' in his article ,is that not racist ?

If it was a direct quote, probably not. If it was at an individual or group in a demeaning and insulting manner then it is.

 

[Highbury_Blade]

I've always wondered why black comedians can get away with saying things about white people in routines which would end any white comedians career if he said them about black people.

Agreed.

 

[JJ Sefton]

Agreed.

http://www.ebony.com/black-listed/e...l-all-the-white-people-joke-981#axzz2S7j4qBVK

If a white actor made that joke he'd never have worked again.

 

[sitwell]

If it was a direct quote, probably not. If it was at an individual or group in a demeaning and insulting manner then it is.

Imagine if we referrred to Deane and Agana as a couple of Blackies ,or Brownies to be more accurate. And surely Samuel meant pinkies ?

 

[JJ Sefton]

Imagine if we referrred to Deane and Agana as a couple of Blackies ,or Brownies to be more accurate. And surely Samuel meant pinkies ?

A relative of mine used to call the both of them "Black Magic". Was that racist?

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

Imagine if we referrred to Deane and Agana as a couple of Blackies ,or Brownies to be more accurate. And surely Samuel meant pinkies ?

Again it isn't the words per se, but the context in which they are used. If describing race/colour/ethnicity is done to belittle, demean, insult or any other negative connotation it's racist!

 

[Darren]

Isn't that what I said?

And by the way, take the colour out of it. If someone black called my missus 'nigger' she'd kick their ass as well, as she finds the term offensive when directed at her by anybody. The word may have been 'reclaimed' but plenty of black people still don't like to be personally tagged as such and see it as demeaning at best and offensively rascist at worst.

Indeed, I wasn't disagreeing with you, it was a supportive post!

I also agree with what you say about your wife. I don't know but I rather suspect this "reclaming" of "nigger" was all about youg black people back in the day trying to shock their elders - rather like the late 70's punks going around sporting swastikas.

This is all a minefield and, as I say, the golden rule is not to say things you think might offend the person you are speaking with.

 

[sitwell]

The sentence speaks for itself. 'For race divides the black community more than it unnerves whitey.' For a rant about issues with race he takes the cowardly way out himself ,surely such a radical journalist should have written 'Race divides the blackies as much as the whiteys ' no ? Or did he go to the same double standards school of Rob Styles ?
The man is a cock.

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

Indeed, I wasn't disagreeing with you, it was a supportive post!

I also agree with what you say about your wife. I don't know but I rather suspect this "reclaming" of "nigger" was all about youg black people back in the day trying to shock their elders - rather like the late 70's punks going around sporting swastikas.

This is all a minefield and, as I say, the golden rule is not to say things you think might offend the person you are speaking with.

I have discussed this at length with my missus, why her and many of her generation still dislike the word but the younger generation embrace it to such an extent that it's constantly in use. She goes with your theory for the current under 25s, but she thinks the earlier manifestation of it was a misguided notion that by claiming it you disarm it and those wanting to use it to offend. She uses the analogy of the 'right-on' leftie social worker types suddenly starting to wear Doc Martens in the 80s. Unfortunately skinheads still put the boot in and 'nigger' will never lose it's association with slavery and ownership.

 

[Darren]

I have discussed this at length with my missus, why her and many of her generation still dislike the word but the younger generation embrace it to such an extent that it's constantly in use. She goes with your theory for the current under 25s, but she thinks the earlier manifestation of it was a misguided notion that by claiming it you disarm it and those wanting to use it to offend. She uses the analogy of the 'right-on' leftie social worker types suddenly starting to wear Doc Martens in the 80s. Unfortunately skinheads still put the boot in and 'nigger' will never lose it's association with slavery and ownership.

Interesting.

A rather similar thing happened in the sphere or non heteronormative sexuality. The words "perve" and "queer" have certqainly been reclaimed to the extent that people in the culture have no problem referring to each other by those words and I do think they have lost some of their hurt power as a result. As you say though, to lots of heteronormative people, those words are no doubt still seen as insults. As someone who doesn't identify as gay I would not refer to anyone as "queer" (as it usually tends to mean gay, but lots of people who now use it to refer to anyone with a non-orthodox sexuality), but I am quite happy to be called a "perve" and call fellow perves "perves"

 

[Northyorksblade]

My grandson, at a recent game, said the goalie would be rubbish because he was black. He also said when a black sub came on, oh no, a little black man, he'll be a pacey winger. Actually Geoff, was spectacularly rubbish! Oh, and the goalie had a blinder, which doesn't take much against us as shots are few. However, I digress. I did feel vaguely uncomfortable with what he said and I said, perhaps some people would take those two comments as racist. As there was no intent as such, I presume not?