Maddy Cusack - SUFC Investigation Statement

[Berkshire Blade]

Without being mean find it hard to believe this alone would drive someone to end their life. The financial pressure and having multiple jobs sure but a football manager preferring others is part and parcel of the game no matter the level.

 

[mattbianco1]

I knocked the club for "hiding" the outcome below main news in the OP before i edited it out. You can still see what I wrote in the first couple of replies.

For me, it's clear the club are hiding something and the reappointment of Morgan is only going to make this whole thing worse. The club will be in a legal battle with her family for years to come.

Not letting the family see the report suggests the club aren't being transparent and many would view this as them trying to hide something.

 

[Brian Deane]

The club have a great knack of latching on to conmen, don't they? I'm referring to Shotton, who clearly wasn't even to do basic things like taking people's proper name/relationship. Not sure how anything can be concluded when the ground level facts can't be properly recorded as it throws everything else into question.

Totally agree, the whole case needs re looking at with a more capable investigator.

 

[Paisley Blade]

The investigator spelling her name wrong and then referring to her Dad as a club employee is deplorable.

 

[Chimpan-A]

That makes horrendous reading. Taking football out of it, no-one’s employment should make them feel like that. And it’s not easy to walk away from the thing that pays your bills and keeps a roof over your head, even if that is the best course of action for mental health.

 

[ISZA ⚔️]

there was a time when the club did not provide them with food

Where do you even start with that.

 

[Grey Blade]

There's a piece - "why her family want a new investigation into her death" in The Athletic this morning.
No paywall

Special report: Maddy Cusack - why her family want a new investigation into her death

The heartbreaking story of a talented and popular footballer, her tragic death, and why her family want a new investigation

theathletic.com

There seem to be more questions than answers. I suspect the club would like us to think that it just stems from a clash of personalities but it would be interesting to hear more from Delroy Hall;-

'In the meantime, the club’s chaplain, Delroy Hall, has resigned from his role. Among a number of wide-ranging complaints, Hall informed the club that he felt ignored by a number of people in senior positions after he, an experienced counsellor, tried to help staff cope with their grief in light of Cusack’s death.'

 

[Brian Deane]

Without being mean find it hard to believe this alone would drive someone to end their life. The financial pressure and having multiple jobs sure but a football manager preferring others is part and parcel of the game no matter the level.

I suppose if you have never experienced or had been treated the way the article trys to explain then you perhaps have been very fortunate during your working life.
I myself left my career of 30yrs in Highways and Utilities for similar reasons.
Sometimes enough is enough, it took almost 9 months to get back into any kind of work.

 

[Klaatu Barada Nikto]

Where do you even start with that.

Quite.



Re: Morgan. After heaving read that, it doesn't sound hugely different to what happens in the mens game? Plenty on here (including myself) have advocated the management team encouraging a player to leave by not having them train with the first team. It happens, it's part of football, at least it is with the mens game. Perhaps its wrong and needs to be stopped at all levels.

The problem with Maddy may have been that she felt she couldn't leave and go to another team because she wasn't just a player with Sheffield United, as she worked for the club in another role too, and would have had to give that up?

 

[mattbianco1]

Re: Morgan. After heaving read that, it doesn't sound hugely different to what happens in the mens game? Plenty on here (including myself) have advocated the management team encouraging a player to leave by not having them train with the first team. It happens, it's part of football, at least it is with the mens game. Perhaps its wrong and needs to be stopped at all levels.

The problem with Maddy may have been that she felt she couldn't leave and go to another team because she wasn't just a player with Sheffield United, as she worked for the club in another role too, and would have had to give that up?

Would it be easier to accept being frozen out by a woman coach? If a male coach is doing it to women, would they feel more intimidated by this?

It sounds like Morgan can be quite loud and vocal.
In the nicest possible way, women in general are a lot more sensitive than men and i guess would take this sort of thing to heart a lot more.

 

[Berkshire Blade]

I suppose if you have never experienced or had been treated the way the article trys to explain then you perhaps have been very fortunate during your working life.
I myself left my career of 30yrs in Highways and Utilities for similar reasons.
Sometimes enough is enough, it took almost 9 months to get back into any kind of work.

The quotes about how he treated her aren't particularly harsh. Perhaps having players work for the club in non match day roles shouldn't happen but this is partly why professional sport is hard yet the rewards potentially great....if it was easy everyone would do it.

Sadly there was probably far more than just a football manager and player not seeing eye to eye and it's something we probably will never know. Even people with absolutely no obvious trigger sadly take their own lives.

 

[S64 Blade]

Would it be easier to accept being frozen out by a woman coach? If a male coach is doing it to women, would they feel more intimidated by this?

It sounds like Morgan can be quite loud and vocal.
In the nicest possible way, women in general are a lot more sensitive than men and i guess would take this sort of thing to heart a lot more.

I think emotionally intelligent, is a better way of putting it, but I agree with your point.

I don't think all men can appreciate the differences in how men and women are. Women experience challenges that men don't and vice versa and in this environment, I'd expect that it's probably a bit more pronounced than say, in an office workplace.

I think you've got to have a high EQ to do a job like this and it sounds like Morgan doesn't, but it seems like Redfearn did.

 

[joe casey]

Would it be easier to accept being frozen out by a woman coach? If a male coach is doing it to women, would they feel more intimidated by this?

It sounds like Morgan can be quite loud and vocal.
In the nicest possible way, women in general are a lot more sensitive than men and i guess would take this sort of thing to heart a lot more.

Rightly or wrongly, as suggested, the behaviour of Morgan described in the article can be seen in dressing rooms up and down the country for years. You could listen to any random episode of Under the Cosh and hear a description of a manager almost identical to that (very often Blackwell!). Are women less likely to challenge a male manager? - I'd imagine they're almost certainly less likely to challenge them phsyically as we've often heard stories about and as such the power dynamic will always be a very very difficult one if characters like this are employed.

 

[Klaatu Barada Nikto]

Would it be easier to accept being frozen out by a woman coach? If a male coach is doing it to women, would they feel more intimidated by this?

It sounds like Morgan can be quite loud and vocal.
In the nicest possible way, women in general are a lot more sensitive than men and i guess would take this sort of thing to heart a lot more.

I think emotionally intelligent, is a better way of putting it, but I agree with your point.

I don't think all men can appreciate the differences in how men and women are. Women experience challenges that men don't and vice versa and in this environment, I'd expect that it's probably a bit more pronounced than say, in an office workplace.

I think you've got to have a high EQ to do a job like this and it sounds like Morgan doesn't, but it seems like Redfearn did.

It may well be that the talent pipeline to create enough good female coaches isn't there yet so the women's games has to accept male coaches who probably would prefer to be managing blokes but wouldn't get a sniff in the mens game. Or it could be that good female coaches are being overlooked. Perhaps both.

 

[S64 Blade]

It may well be that the talent pipeline to create enough good female coaches isn't there yet so the women's games has to accept male coaches who probably would prefer to be managing blokes but wouldn't get a sniff in the mens game. Or it could be that good female coaches are being overlooked. Perhaps both.

Yeah good point! This is probably the challenge right now as the women's game still matures.

 

[Rodders]

Yeah good point! This is probably the challenge right now as the women's game still matures.

I think that’s exactly it; there’s a conflict there between the attitudes and behaviours of a professional game; rigorous training, out of favour players isolated and the actual realities of the women’s game in 2023 - players holding down 2 jobs, not even getting food provided (WTF). Seems like this is all a bit of a recipe of disaster until the women’s game matures and develops.

And as Paisley Blade said above, the investigator’s conduct has been deplorable. Utterly shameful. With even accepting this “investigation” and stuff like not even providing food for players, it’s clear where United see its women’s team in its list of priorities.

 

[ISZA ⚔️]

Are women less likely to challenge a male manager? - I'd imagine they're almost certainly less likely to challenge them phsyically

Unfortunately this is likely what it boils down to. The women’s game has tried to expand at such a speed recently that situations like this were inevitable.

 

[paidsy]

It appears from the article that Morgan is probably not suited to management in the womens game. It also seems that a lot of the gripes listed are just common practice in football and that's just part of the nature of the game now.

Making a link between Morgans behaviour and the tragic outcome based on the article, seems to be a incredible stretch. I know it's become increasingly difficult in these times, but there needs to be a great amount of care when reporting on these matters.

I can fully understand the family want answers also, but they have been through a very traumatic event and will be searching for something as to why this happened, even if that thing isn't there.

Morgan should leave the club at the end of the season, it's best for both parties. But there needs to be great care put into any next steps regarding this incident by all parties.

 

[Uncle mick]

Without being mean find it hard to believe this alone would drive someone to end their life. The financial pressure and having multiple jobs sure but a football manager preferring others is part and parcel of the game no matter the level.

I agree how would cloughie senior go on now

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

I agree how would cloughie senior go on now

Same as the managers I had 20+ years ago in my job, they wouldn't! The attitudes, behaviours, mind-set, beliefs have all changed and almost universally for the better. Indeed, football is a bit of a dinosaur in this respect. The yelling, displays of anger, isolating of staff wouldn't be tolerated in the workplace anywhere else.

And Cloughie wouldn't get a brown envelope of cash now, maybe a BACs payment to his off-shore account.

 

[Bladey_blade]

I knocked the club for "hiding" the outcome below main news in the OP before i edited it out. You can still see what I wrote in the first couple of replies.

For me, it's clear the club are hiding something and the reappointment of Morgan is only going to make this whole thing worse. The club will be in a legal battle with her family for years to come.

Not letting the family see the report suggests the club aren't being transparent and many would view this as them trying to hide something.

View attachment 177282

Genuine question, on what legal basis will the family come after the club?

 

[mattbianco1]

Genuine question, on what legal basis will the family come after the club?

Suppose it depends on what evidence of "wrongdoing" they have and whether or not they gain access to the documentation from the inquest.

 

[PokerBlade]

Quite.



Re: Morgan. After heaving read that, it doesn't sound hugely different to what happens in the mens game? Plenty on here (including myself) have advocated the management team encouraging a player to leave by not having them train with the first team. It happens, it's part of football, at least it is with the mens game. Perhaps its wrong and needs to be stopped at all levels.

The problem with Maddy may have been that she felt she couldn't leave and go to another team because she wasn't just a player with Sheffield United, as she worked for the club in another role too, and would have had to give that up?

I remember reading Neil Collins' blog about being sidelined as a player while with us. Not being allowed to train with the first team, being sent to the u21's. The manager not talking to him. Billy Sharp on the podcast with Allardyce mentioned being at Southampton after Adkins left, and telling the manager he knew he wasn't in the plans but could he at least train with the first team and being told no.

I'm still not wanting to get too much into the details about this specific tragedy but I think you nail it in saying this isn't out of line with how football has been done for a long time. I don't think it's a good way to treat people.

I also think you're right to point out the restrictions on players at Cusack's level. Even Collins in League One would've been making above a living wage. Cusack was reportedly on £6k a year from football. Finding another club means finding another job in a new location.

 

[SELondon_Bladette]

I suppose if you have never experienced or had been treated the way the article trys to explain then you perhaps have been very fortunate during your working life.
I myself left my career of 30yrs in Highways and Utilities for similar reasons.
Sometimes enough is enough, it took almost 9 months to get back into any kind of work.

Totally agree with you here BD. My professional life is currently quite miserable with a toxic and unempatheic manager, so much so I was signed off with stress in summer for a few weeks. People shouldn't underestimate the mental toll daily anxiety and stress caused by bad management can cause.
The whole thing at sufc womens is really really sad.

 

[Harry's Game]

Sounds like we have made a horrible botch of the investigation.. The optics on this look absolutely terrible

 

[Trigger Blade]

I remember reading Neil Collins' blog about being sidelined as a player while with us. Not being allowed to train with the first team, being sent to the u21's. The manager not talking to him. Billy Sharp on the podcast with Allardyce mentioned being at Southampton after Adkins left, and telling the manager he knew he wasn't in the plans but could he at least train with the first team and being told no.

I'm still not wanting to get too much into the details about this specific tragedy but I think you nail it in saying this isn't out of line with how football has been done for a long time. I don't think it's a good way to treat people.

I also think you're right to point out the restrictions on players at Cusack's level. Even Collins in League One would've been making above a living wage. Cusack was reportedly on £6k a year from football. Finding another club means finding another job in a new location.

The article says that Morgan campaigned to get her a salary increase from £6k to £18k, although it doesn’t say whether that was successful, he used it as an example of him not being anti-Maddy.

 

[PokerBlade]

The article says that Morgan campaigned to get her a salary increase from £6k to £18k, although it doesn’t say whether that was successful, he used it as an example of him not being anti-Maddy.

Yeah, the £6k figure matches what the family have previously said too.

I sort of think it's pointless to comment much on the investigation, at least at this point, without reading it. I'd say things like correspondence with typos can possibly be innocently explained. The general allegations against Morgan sound bad but are, as I said, the type of thing known to go on in football and may speak to broader issues in football than a specific manager. The people not interviewed may be because, as the article mentions, the focus was on that which could be corroborated rather than witness testimony alone. The extent to which the report explains things like that is something I don't have access to. I just don't think it's fair to go down those avenues without reading the report.

I'm certainly not the type of person who thinks a company would be above picking an investigator that would be sympathetic to them, but I can't dismiss the results of something I haven't read. This is why this type of investigation rarely puts anything to bed.

 

[Bartleby]

Would it be easier to accept being frozen out by a woman coach? If a male coach is doing it to women, would they feel more intimidated by this?

It sounds like Morgan can be quite loud and vocal.
In the nicest possible way, women in general are a lot more sensitive than men and i guess would take this sort of thing to heart a lot more.

Neill Collins took it to heart https://www.sportbible.com/pub-talk...ned-at-a-football-club-neill-collins-20170216

edit: just seen PokerBlade 's post making the same point

 

[Bartleby]

I just don't think it's fair to go down those avenues without reading the report.

I'm certainly not the type of person who thinks a company would be above picking an investigator that would be sympathetic to them, but I can't dismiss the results of something I haven't read. This is why this type of investigation rarely puts anything to bed.

Seems wrong to me that the bereaved family don't get to see it.

 

[Brian Deane]

It appears from the article that Morgan is probably not suited to management in the womens game. It also seems that a lot of the gripes listed are just common practice in football and that's just part of the nature of the game now.

Making a link between Morgans behaviour and the tragic outcome based on the article, seems to be a incredible stretch. I know it's become increasingly difficult in these times, but there needs to be a great amount of care when reporting on these matters.

I can fully understand the family want answers also, but they have been through a very traumatic event and will be searching for something as to why this happened, even if that thing isn't there.

Morgan should leave the club at the end of the season, it's best for both parties. But there needs to be great care put into any next steps regarding this incident by all parties.i you think that it's a

It appears from the article that Morgan is probably not suited to management in the womens game. It also seems that a lot of the gripes listed are just common practice in football and that's just part of the nature of the game now.

Making a link between Morgans behaviour and the tragic outcome based on the article, seems to be a incredible stretch. I know it's become increasingly difficult in these times, but there needs to be a great amount of care when reporting on these matters.

I can fully understand the family want answers also, but they have been through a very traumatic event and will be searching for something as to why this happened, even if that thing isn't there.

Morgan should leave the club at the end of the season, it's best for both parties. But there needs to be great care put into any next steps regarding this incident by all parties.

An incredible stretch ?
Maddy left a previous club due to how she was being treated and then that same person arrives at the very same club.
You don't think that could be an issue at all ?