Roy's View From... Loan Updates

[Gin&Juice]

Diego is perhaps the biggest one, though Brewster’s injury at Liverpool has held him back.

Not sure if Diego had the temperament and discipline to make it to the top, obviously had the skill and talent.

 

[Nedski]

We seem to get quite a lot of long term injuries through key development years. Greaves, Hackford and Potter are three off the top of my head that had up to or more than a year out and I seem to think we’ve had others that are slipping my mind.

Wonder if that is par for the course as they are developing physically or whether the sniper also target the juniors.

Callum Semple seemed destined for big things until he was smashed by a Leeds youth player and spent a long time out injured. He then played in Scotland, became a hit with the fans, then had disciplinary issues over betting. Seems to have disappeared off the map since.

 

[Ndiayewillalwaysloveyou]

Wouldn't be surprised to see Arblaster back here in January. Whether that's the best thing for his development is another matter but have a feeling we'll try and make use of him.

Hope he stays at Vale for the full season. Not done Osula and Jebbison any good.

 

[wak1889]

In the last couple of years:
Amissah, Seriki, Gordon, Lopata, Buyabu, Brunt, Arblaster, Brooks, Hackford, Ndiaye, Jebbison, Osula and One, plus we got big fees for Lankshear and Midwood.
Are you sure you’ve not got us mixed up with another football club?

And ndiaye apart not one of them has been near a regular first team starter, and never will be that includes osula who started this season purely because we had no one else, now we have others he's probably 5th or 6th choice striker , which makes hackford 7th choice , and one wasn't an academy product well he probably was but it wasn't ours

 

[EddieColquhoun]

And ndiaye apart not one of them has been near a regular first team starter, and never will be that includes osula who started this season purely because we had no one else, now we have others he's probably 5th or 6th choice striker , which makes hackford 7th choice , and one wasn't an academy product well he probably was but it wasn't ours

You commented about not getting near the first team so I gave you 13 that had.
How much have you seen of Ryan One to be writing the 17 year old off?

 

[EddieColquhoun]

Callum Semple seemed destined for big things until he was smashed by a Leeds youth player and spent a long time out injured. He then played in Scotland, became a hit with the fans, then had disciplinary issues over betting. Seems to have disappeared off the map since.

Kurtis Havenhand was scoring for fun at the end of last season. I don’t think he’s featured yet this season or Jevan Beattie since joining.

 

[Wards]

Kurtis Havenhand was scoring for fun at the end of last season. I don’t think he’s featured yet this season or Jevan Beattie since joining.

Havenhand had surgery. On his way back

 

[wak1889]

You commented about not getting near the first team so I gave you 13 that had.
How much have you seen of Ryan One to be writing the 17 year old off

I haven't written one off I merely said he wasn't our academy player we bought him from someone else, and yes you point out 13 players who have made at least 1 appearance for the club, which is fair enough but my point is the academy doesn't produce players that play regular first team football, so why not just do what we have done before with ndiaye, and one and let others develop them through their formative years then sign them at 17 , 18 years old

 

[BangorBlade]

Arblaster better than Bellingham, gerrimin int squad

Norwoods relief next season id say

 

[EddieColquhoun]

I haven't written one off I merely said he wasn't our academy player we bought him from someone else, and yes you point out 13 players who have made at least 1 appearance for the club, which is fair enough but my point is the academy doesn't produce players that play regular first team football, so why not just do what we have done before with ndiaye, and one and let others develop them through their formative years then sign them at 17 , 18 years old

One has played for our academy at U18 and U21 despite your claims he’s not “our academy player”.

Your original point was “how many of these academy players are ever going to ger near the first team? Just get rid“. Does this include Arblaster?

Are you now saying we should scrap the academy below the U18s?
Should we not have signed Lowton, Naughton, Walker, Ramsdale, Maguire, DCL and Brooks at younger ages?

 

[wak1889]

One has played for our academy at U18 and U21 despite your claims he’s not “our academy player”.

Your original point was “how many of these academy players are ever going to ger near the first team? Just get rid“. Does this include Arblaster?

Are you now saying we should scrap the academy below the U18s?
Should we not have signed Lowton, Naughton, Walker, Ramsdale, Maguire, DCL and Brooks at younger ages?

I'm saying if we send a player on loan to a national League / league 2 club and they are struggling then why keep them on our books it's obvious they aren't good enough, if they were they wouldnt be struggling at that level , arblaster is doing well in the league he is in , but at what point do we start to pick him for the first team,? Or don't we ever? And my point about academy players not being ours is for instance take ndiaye he didn't just decide to put a pair of boots on at age 19 , he was developed by an academy that coached him and invested in him in France, he then came to England and played national League, and we then picked him up and because we no longer have reserve team football he played under 21 and under 23s but that doesn't make him our academy player, he was a french academy player we got from non league, one Also has over 30 appearances in senior football and a few caps for Scotland at different age groups, again I'm pretty sure he has been extensively coached by an academy for many years before we picked him up, so if he's an academy product he isn't our academy product

 

[EddieColquhoun]

I'm saying if we send a player on loan to a national League / league 2 club and they are struggling then why keep them on our books it's obvious they aren't good enough, if they were they wouldnt be struggling at that level , arblaster is doing well in the league he is in , but at what point do we start to pick him for the first team,? Or don't we ever? And my point about academy players not being ours is for instance take ndiaye he didn't just decide to put a pair of boots on at age 19 , he was developed by an academy that coached him and invested in him in France, he then came to England and played national League, and we then picked him up and because we no longer have reserve team football he played under 21 and under 23s but that doesn't make him our academy player, he was a french academy player we got from non league, one Also has over 30 appearances in senior football and a few caps for Scotland at different age groups, again I'm pretty sure he has been extensively coached by an academy for many years before we picked him up, so if he's an academy product he isn't our academy product

Ndiaye played for the U23s. One has played for the U18s and U21s. These teams were/are part of the Sheffield United Football Club Youth Academy and the players were coached by our Academy coaches. That does make them our academy players even if they were previously academy players elsewhere.
Arblaster has already been picked for our first team.

 

[wak1889]

Ndiaye played for the U23s. One has played for the U18s and U21s. These teams were/are part of the Sheffield United Football Club Youth Academy and the players were coached by our Academy coaches. That does make them our academy players even if they were previously academy players elsewhere.
Arblaster has already been picked for our first team.

Fair enough we have different opinions on what constitutes an academy player , arblaster has played for our first team but my point remains he is on loan in the lower leagues whilst we are buying in midfielders and offering contracts to has beens , that to me does not constitute an academy success

 

[EddieColquhoun]

Fair enough we have different opinions on what constitutes an academy player , arblaster has played for our first team but my point remains he is on loan in the lower leagues whilst we are buying in midfielders and offering contracts to has beens , that to me does not constitute an academy success

Arblaster is a 19 year old away with his age group for England.
The 4 Blades Academy graduates at the last Euros in the England squad did constitute academy success.
I don’t think I’ve seen a Blade before suggesting we should scrap our Academy teams although that sentiment has been aired frequently on Owlstalk.

 

[wak1889]

Arblaster is a 19 year old away with his age group for England.
The 4 Blades Academy graduates at the last Euros in the England squad did constitute academy success.
I don’t think I’ve seen a Blade before suggesting we should scrap our Academy teams although that sentiment has been aired frequently on Owlstalk.

I personally think reserve team football should never have been scrapped, that would then reduce the need to loan players out to gain access to mens football, Kyle walker was spurs/villa academy player not ours as he played for their u23s a couple of times

 

[EddieColquhoun]

I personally think reserve team football should never have been scrapped, that would then reduce the need to loan players out to gain access to mens football, Kyle walker was spurs/villa academy player not ours as he played for their u23s a couple of times

Is the W on your picture for Wendy?

 

[10-0 win]

Lots of very talented young players struggle in physical leagues. Almost a different sport compared to u-18/u-21.

 

[dellasthunderbolt]

The weird anomaly in all this (and I don’t know if it’s just a United thing or true of other clubs) is that we have sometimes had youth player come through and end up as first team standard ‘regulars’ in groups. This shouldn’t be the case with the rarity theory. Think about 97-98 when Quinn, Woodhouse and Morris all emerged. Then Warnock had Tonge, Monty and Jags all about same age. Could even make the argument that same thing happened with Maguire, Long and Kennedy (who was / would have been a regular in 1st team squad barring injury). Both Kyles came through together. Now that either means they are freak accidents or maybe that actually for youth to be good enough and thrive in 1st team they need to be given the chance too. Seems a little chicken and egg.

Just a thought (and might well be a shit Sunday night before sleep brain-fart at that)!

 

[wak1889]

Is the W on your picture for Wendy?

No

 

[Chimpan-A]

Reading the Freckleton ones gave me a migraine trying to decipher them: like someone had asked ChatGPT “tell me what fans might think about a lad called Freckleton if he wasn’t as good as a bloke called Grimes.”

 

[LBA_Blade]

I think some people over expect success rates from the academy. In the last 10+ dlc, walker, Maguire are the full academy players we have had that made it in the league we want to be in
A few others have established themselves in the championship but we are talking a handful of players since 2009 there.

If we get one player every 2 years who can make it that would be incredible.

Agreed, I did a bit of research into the top 6 teams currently in the Premiership to see who has players that went through their academy system and now in their 1st team. Including 2 not yet proven players that are in and around the 1st team squad and not including players that are out on loan as they haven't "made it" yet for this purpose. 2 clubs - Spurs & Villa currently don't have any regular academy players "of their own" Tim Iroegbunam of Villa is currently in the sick bay he was out on loan at QPR last season, so probably be loaned out again at some point for some match fitness you would presume.

Out of the others 11 are shown here, not surprising to see Man United at the top of the list although Heaton is 37 and been at 11 different clubs in his playing career mainly in the Championship or lower. Even Evans (35) is a re-sign after originally leaving the club in 2015

Man United
Marcus Rashford
Tom Heaton (back up GK)
Jonny Evans
Kobbie Mainoo (not yet proven) - Injury set back
Scott McTominay

Arsenal
Bukayo Saka
Eddie Nketiah
Reiss Nelson (not yet proven) - League cup

Liverpool
Curtis Jones
Trent Alexander-Arnold

Man City
Phil Foden

When you look at the above the money that has been pumped into just these 6 academies has produced 11 current players in for themselves. Granted a lot will go through the system and end up possibly in the football league or non-league. When we look at our squad we have realistically the below

Jebbo
Osula

Not yet proven - In the potential promise pot
Coulibaly - Who knows really
Brooks - Has potential - can we afford to loan him out for regular game time?
Boyes - Getting good game time at a decent level
Arblaster - Promising start at a decent level

If Brooks and Arblaster along with Osula (mainly due to the contract extension) push on in which ever league we are in we will find ourselves in a very similar position to most clubs in the Premier League. They have 1 or 2 in their match day squad with a couple more floating as a maybe bench filler/cup squad. Its a cruel balancing act of a system that literally is shifting the decent footballers for that gem, who then still might not make it
When we look at what we have produced, still playing Kyle Walker, Aaron Ramsdale and Harry Maguire stand out as the 3 top tier players. The system has done well with cutting transfer fees and making a fair whack from sell ons etc but even 1 player every 2 years is exceptionally lucky. At the moment 2 players every 10 would be good although I guess it depends on what league we are in if we are looking at the above, we may change that slightly. In the Championship there are a few that might get regular game time but in the Premier League they wouldn't be ready next season. Its a huge step up from League 1 to the Premiership even physically to the top of the Championship.

 

[LBA_Blade]

The weird anomaly in all this (and I don’t know if it’s just a United thing or true of other clubs) is that we have sometimes had youth player come through and end up as first team standard ‘regulars’ in groups. This shouldn’t be the case with the rarity theory. Think about 97-98 when Quinn, Woodhouse and Morris all emerged. Then Warnock had Tonge, Monty and Jags all about same age. Could even make the argument that same thing happened with Maguire, Long and Kennedy (who was / would have been a regular in 1st team squad barring injury). Both Kyles came through together. Now that either means they are freak accidents or maybe that actually for youth to be good enough and thrive in 1st team they need to be given the chance too. Seems a little chicken and egg.

Just a thought (and might well be a shit Sunday night before sleep brain-fart at that)!

Definitely needs the right factors to happen, manager willing to give youth a try, the youth players wanting to put their all into the performance. With the few examples made, I guess it was right time, right place for it. When you get 2 or 3 youth players in the squad, they know (and usually love) the club, like with Tonge, Monty and Jags, that made the spine of a hard to beat team. Then you add a few younger players like Brown and Kozluk and then a bit more established players like Ndlovu and Asaba with long term keeper Tracey you end up with some good building blocks.

 

[SUFCinks]

Ben whiteman is another to add to the list, i think has done really well.

Tyler smith, Regan slater, George Long, louis reed have already had decent pro careers. They aren’t prem level but to even be in the top 4 leagues, from academy is really hard. We’ve had lots of decent players come through.

 

[Pintor75]

Agreed, I did a bit of research into the top 6 teams currently in the Premiership to see who has players that went through their academy system and now in their 1st team. Including 2 not yet proven players that are in and around the 1st team squad and not including players that are out on loan as they haven't "made it" yet for this purpose. 2 clubs - Spurs & Villa currently don't have any regular academy players "of their own" Tim Iroegbunam of Villa is currently in the sick bay he was out on loan at QPR last season, so probably be loaned out again at some point for some match fitness you would presume.

Out of the others 11 are shown here, not surprising to see Man United at the top of the list although Heaton is 37 and been at 11 different clubs in his playing career mainly in the Championship or lower. Even Evans (35) is a re-sign after originally leaving the club in 2015

Man United
Marcus Rashford
Tom Heaton (back up GK)
Jonny Evans
Kobbie Mainoo (not yet proven) - Injury set back
Scott McTominay

Arsenal
Bukayo Saka
Eddie Nketiah
Reiss Nelson (not yet proven) - League cup

Liverpool
Curtis Jones
Trent Alexander-Arnold

Man City
Phil Foden

When you look at the above the money that has been pumped into just these 6 academies has produced 11 current players in for themselves. Granted a lot will go through the system and end up possibly in the football league or non-league. When we look at our squad we have realistically the below

Jebbo
Osula

Not yet proven - In the potential promise pot
Coulibaly - Who knows really
Brooks - Has potential - can we afford to loan him out for regular game time?
Boyes - Getting good game time at a decent level
Arblaster - Promising start at a decent level

If Brooks and Arblaster along with Osula (mainly due to the contract extension) push on in which ever league we are in we will find ourselves in a very similar position to most clubs in the Premier League. They have 1 or 2 in their match day squad with a couple more floating as a maybe bench filler/cup squad. Its a cruel balancing act of a system that literally is shifting the decent footballers for that gem, who then still might not make it
When we look at what we have produced, still playing Kyle Walker, Aaron Ramsdale and Harry Maguire stand out as the 3 top tier players. The system has done well with cutting transfer fees and making a fair whack from sell ons etc but even 1 player every 2 years is exceptionally lucky. At the moment 2 players every 10 would be good although I guess it depends on what league we are in if we are looking at the above, we may change that slightly. In the Championship there are a few that might get regular game time but in the Premier League they wouldn't be ready next season. Its a huge step up from League 1 to the Premiership even physically to the top of the Championship

The top 6 can just buy anyone who's the finished article with the money they have, the academy players at these clubs are the best of the best and get sold for millions, Palmer being the latest. We have dood youngsters who get loaned to league one/two clubs where the standard isn't very good, so when that player comes back he can't go into our first team as he isn't up to scratch so we're left thinking, "is he going to be good enough?", then he's loaned again, like Osula,Jebbison, Arblaster & others, how long do we wait before realising this, In the long run we might as well sell these for a reasonable fee,say £3-5m and put it towards the finished artical

 

[Millhousesblade1889]

I saw that after I posted actually. Think he only got a game due to it being the FA Trophy. It's easy to see our lads do brilliantly at U23s and think they are going to be top level players but in reality most will struggle to get a career in league football. It's really difficult to become a professional

100% I think everytime we’re struggling there’s a temptation for a minority of fans to say chuck the kids in, but in reality some of them aren’t even ready for the standard of National League.

In their defence some leagues will suit players better based on their attributes as we’ve found when we went through the leagues with Wilder

 

[Slim Man]

I'm surprised Freckleton is struggling. I've liked the look of him and he was great at Wealdstone.

 

[Bergen Blade]

Is Harrison Neal injured?

Evans keeps praising him, but doesn't play him:

Steve Evans 'almost cries' every time he overlooks Sheffield United's Harrison Neal

Stevenage FC manager Steve Evans has said the performances in training of Sheffield United's Harrison Neal have been good enough for a start.

www.thecomet.net

 

[LBA_Blade]

Ben whiteman is another to add to the list, i think has done really well.

Tyler smith, Regan slater, George Long, louis reed have already had decent pro careers. They aren’t prem level but to even be in the top 4 leagues, from academy is really hard. We’ve had lots of decent players come through.

Matt Lowton was a solid pro for many years too

 

[Bergen Blade]

I'm surprised Freckleton is struggling. I've liked the look of him and he was great at Wealdstone.

He started well, but seems to have struggled following an illness.

He looked on par with the other first teamers in the summer, but had a poor U21 game just prior to going on loan. He's got good attributes, but obviously needs to find consistency.

 

[LBA_Blade]

The top 6 can just buy anyone who's the finished article with the money they have, the academy players at these clubs are the best of the best and get sold for millions, Palmer being the latest. We have dood youngsters who get loaned to league one/two clubs where the standard isn't very good, so when that player comes back he can't go into our first team as he isn't up to scratch so we're left thinking, "is he going to be good enough?", then he's loaned again, like Osula,Jebbison, Arblaster & others, how long do we wait before realising this, In the long run we might as well sell these for a reasonable fee,say £3-5m and put it towards the finished artical

Its a totally valid point, if we were looking at January I would say offers for Jebbison should be accepted IMO, he is replaceable even if we dropped down a division . I think Osula committing to a longer contract deserves to be given the chance for a few seasons, the same with Arblaster and Marsh at Donny (once back fit). Its once you realistically pass 21/22 age wise and its maybe another season on loan might do him some good, thats the point you look to offload. If the sell-ons are in the contract (look how Villa have us under their thumb with Archer) not saying we should have buybacks as probably couldn't afford it but to cash in later has helped us in time of need especially with the higher profile players of recent years.