Let's talk about Rav...

[BiggerBladeThanThou]

Sorry if this has been posted. From The Sun newspaper via Facebook.



Ravel is an interesting conundrum and I've seen a few comments on here suggesting he's messed it up and a bit of failure here.

However, my feeling is that CWAK have a plan for him should we gain Prem status for next season (and even in Champ if we get relegated). A little bit like the case study that is John Lundstram. I really think Ravel has a big part to play at the Lane and will get game time when CWAK think he's ready for it and there's a slot in the team which becomes available. All of this up until now and for the rest of the season is fantastic man management of him I reckon, bringing him down to earth and making him work for his career which I doubt many clubs have done prior-most just stick him in and expect miracles from him.

Thoughts?

 

[BLADES1988]

Thoughts?

Too blurry, cant read.

But yeah i agree, i think we will see more of Rav, i hope they are just getting him ready mentally and physically before he's unleashed.

 

[Sheffsteel]

My thoughts is Rav is like bringing over a highly rated footballer from Brazil.

He’s got all the individual skills, tricks and flicks but Wilder is all about the team.
There’s huge importance given in being dedicated, working hard, attacking as a team but also pressing and defending as a team.
i‘ve seen him play in both cup games and he seemed off the pace (mainly jogging around) and he seemed unsure of his postion/ role.

The ball is now in Ravel’s court but I’m not sure he’s cut out for the way we play under Wilder.
His main hope might be to go to a club where the manager is happy to treat him as a luxury player, in a similar way to Adel Tarabt.
My fear is that putting Rav in our team will at times be like we are playing with 10 men although of course he is capable of producing magic.

It’s still early....Wilder and Knill know what they are doing, so Rav could still come good, so I’m keeping an open mind and staying patient.

 

[Tynemouth Blade]

Chances of him getting a run out on Sunday!?

 

[JackSUFC]

He was never going to come here and play every week. Not at first anyway. If he works hard enough, he'll eventually get his chance and a new contract.

He can have no complaints about not being in the team at the minute but I think there's already been glimpses of a poor attitude on social media. Didn't see Lundstram doing that when he was on the fringes.

As for current ability and fitness, he didn't look impressive in those two League Cup appearances - not that anyone did in fairness.

 

[Davalon]

His past suggests there's more chance of him doing nothing here.

CWAK have been incredible but there's only do much they can do.

RM was a calculated gamble, not a high expectation.

Anything of note from him will be a bonus.

 

[sitwell]

He cant get a game because of Lundstram-Norwood-Fleck , how they have managed to get a full page filler out of it is impressive. Non story.

 

[Blade for Sale]

For all of Fergies brilliance as a manager of both the footballing and human sides of players, I think he got it badly wrong by bigging up Ravel so much as a kid. For one who oversaw the class of 92, as well as countless other extremely talented youngsters, to then single out a young lad and publicly declare him the most talented kid hes ever seen, is to immediately apply a huge amount of pressure onto vulnerable shoulders.

Some lads will thrive on that. In others it may go 1 of 2 ways. Either the aforementioned unbearable pressure on vulnerable yound shoulders, or on the flip side, the message that you are so talented you don't have to put in the hard work that other, less telented players will have to. Both paths will lead to unfulfilled potential.

As one of Bassett's dressing room signs used to declare, Hard Work beats Talent, if Talent doesn't work hard. A pithy statement that should be engraved in the mind of any aspiring player.

 

[SwissBlade]

For all of Fergies brilliance as a manager of both the footballing and human sides of players, I think he got it badly wrong by bigging up Ravel so much as a kid. For one who oversaw the class of 92, as well as countless other extremely talented youngsters, to then single out a young lad and publicly declare him the most talented kid hes ever seen, is to immediately apply a huge amount of pressure onto vulnerable shoulders.

Some lads will thrive on that. In others it may go 1 of 2 ways. Either the aforementioned unbearable pressure on vulnerable yound shoulders, or on the flip side, the message that you are so talented you don't have to put in the hard work that other, less telented players will have to. Both paths will lead to unfulfilled potential.

As one of Bassett's dressing room signs used to declare, Hard Work beats Talent, if Talent doesn't work hard. A pithy statement that should be engraved in the mind of any aspiring player.

Was Fergie wrong though? He can still be exceptionally talented even if mentally he’s not there

my personal view is that we’ll see more of him as the season goes on

 

[cahill]

My thoughts is Rav is like bringing over a highly rated footballer from Brazil.

He’s got all the individual skills, tricks and flicks but Wilder is all about the team.
There’s huge importance given in being dedicated, working hard, attacking as a team but also pressing and defending as a team.
i‘ve seen him play in both cup games and he seemed off the pace (mainly jogging around) and he seemed unsure of his postion/ role.

The ball is now in Ravel’s court but I’m not sure he’s cut out for the way we play under Wilder.
His main hope might be to go to a club where the manager is happy to treat him as a luxury player, in a similar way to Adel Tarabt.
My fear is that putting Rav in our team will at times be like we are playing with 10 men although of course he is capable of producing magic.

It’s still early....Wilder and Knill know what they are doing, so Rav could still come good, so I’m keeping an open mind and staying patient.

Maybe if we get to February and at no risk whatsoever of relegation give him a chance to see what he can do. You never know.

 

[cahill]

His past suggests there's more chance of him doing nothing here.

CWAK have been incredible but there's only do much they can do.

RM was a calculated gamble, not a high expectation.

Anything of note from him will be a bonus.

Nothing predicts behaviour like previous behaviour. With the exception of Lunny of course

 

[GreasyChipBeattie]

As for current ability and fitness, he didn't look impressive in those two League Cup appearances - not that anyone did in fairness.

Yep, and that's why none of the others are featuring either mate
I reckon he was born a couple of generations too late.
He'd have walked into any one of a number of teams back in the 70s

 

[Snake]

Sorry if this has been posted. From The Sun newspaper via Facebook.

View attachment 65045

Thoughts?

My thoughts? Well Blades and tits 99% of my conscious mental state. Not necessarily in that order

 

[Yewsman]

I was happy when we signed him on a one year contract and gave him a chance, especially with CWAK's record in coaching players but bearing in mind his history I did not think he would make it and I still think that. I think he will leave at the end of the season. I would be delighted to be proved wrong.

 

[BigBed]

International break is nearly over.......thank fuck!

 

[ShockingBadBuy]

Sorry if this has been posted. From The Sun newspaper via Facebook.

View attachment 65045

Ravel is an interesting conundrum and I've seen a few comments on here suggesting he's messed it up and a bit of failure here.

However, my feeling is that CWAK have a plan for him should we gain Prem status for next season (and even in Champ if we get relegated). A little bit like the case study that is John Lundstram. I really think Ravel has a big part to play at the Lane and will get game time when CWAK think he's ready for it and there's a slot in the team which becomes available. All of this up until now and for the rest of the season is fantastic man management of him I reckon, bringing him down to earth and making him work for his career which I doubt many clubs have done prior-most just stick him in and expect miracles from him.

Thoughts?

I hadn’t realised Simon Moore was another triumph for Business Plan FC. We do seem to be collecting them, don’t we?

 

[McGrath]

It must be quiet difficult getting yourself upto to the level of fitness that the other players have, from almost a cold start and having a heal injury in pre-season.

 

[BushBlade]

Was Fergie wrong though? He can still be exceptionally talented even if mentally he’s not there

my personal view is that we’ll see more of him as the season goes on

That’s not the point he’s making though. Personally, I suspect that whatever Fergie had said, he’d have ended up the same. I just think there are some players that don’t respond much to being well managed and the idea that a good man manager can successfully manage every individual is a fallacy. Part of being a good manager is identifying those types of character and getting rid.

 

[PittsburghBlade]

Anyone who thinks he has a bad attitude or is “overhyped” just trying to fit a narrative to something they don’t know about.

He just hasn’t been able to get in a team that can’t afford to have flair and luxury players at the minute and that’s fine. He’s a gamble that might still pay off once he learns and fully understands his role as a player in our team.

Overhyped is comical I once played a game against him and I don’t think one of our players tackled him all game he could make anyone who came near him look ridiculous.

 

[SwissBlade]

That’s not the point he’s making though. Personally, I suspect that whatever Fergie had said, he’d have ended up the same. I just think there are some players that don’t respond much to being well managed and the idea that a good man manager can successfully manage every individual is a fallacy. Part of being a good manager is identifying those types of character and getting rid.

Understood, however, i would say that of all the football managers in the game and because he'd seen the class of 92 come through, Fergie was better place than anyone to be able to make that call on whether to make such a statement publicly.

With respect to everyone on here, Fergie was more experienced in dealing with people and characters than any of us.

Clough, Fergie and now Wilder, they are first and foremost fantastic judges of character.

 

[BushBlade]

Understood, however, i would say that of all the football managers in the game and because he'd seen the class of 92 come through, Fergie was better place than anyone to be able to make that call on whether to make such a statement publicly.

With respect to everyone on here, Fergie was more experienced in dealing with people and characters than any of us.

Clough, Fergie and now Wilder, they are first and foremost fantastic judges of character.

I agree, that’s why I said I thought that whatever Fergie said he’d have been the same.

 

[BushBlade]

Anyone who thinks he has a bad attitude or is “overhyped” just trying to fit a narrative to something they don’t know about.

He just hasn’t been able to get in a team that can’t afford to have flair and luxury players at the minute and that’s fine. He’s a gamble that might still pay off once he learns and fully understands his role as a player in our team.

Overhyped is comical I once played a game against him and I don’t think one of our players tackled him all game he could make anyone who came near him look ridiculous.

Just out of interest, how would you compare him with Diego?

 

[Balham]

He cant get a game because of Lundstram-Norwood-Fleck , how they have managed to get a full page filler out of it is impressive. Non story.

True, although tucked away is a line about Morrison staying after training for additional sessions with the coaches. If true, that puts him right on the fringes of the first team squad; he's just unfortunate in a way that Besic covers more positions as the right-footed midfield bench option.

 

[SwissBlade]

I agree, that’s why I said I thought that whatever Fergie said he’d have been the same.

Possibly, but i don't think that its ever that cut and dried.

Fergie handled Giggs brilliantly but he was wonderkid plus wonder attitude.
Lee Sharpe was a talent, but Fergie got rid, didn't want the hassle. Perhaps because he already had one wonderkid in Giggs.
Beckham was ready straight after Sharpe.
Cristiano Ronaldo was a much rawer talent, but he cashed in before he blossomed.
Cantona was fucking nuts, he used him whilst he was at his peak.

Rooney was a talent, could've been more of a headache, but has been handled brilliantly

I don't think that it is always a simple case of whatever a manager says it won't make a difference. I think that sometimes there is an opportunity to spend time and effort on players and it will be worth it but other times the manager takes the opportunity to cash in.

There is also the question of whether a player develops into the player you want. At 16-18 they can be smashing it up as a tricky winger, but by 21 they could be more suited to centre mid or even wing back. Didn't Gareth Bale start out as a bit more of a wing back? Theo Wallcott was a sensation at 17 but a big move and injuries mean that he's never really reached the hype

I could list loads more players and players like Maradona, Gazza and Best would perhaps always fall into the same bracket as being able to fulfill most of their potential to make them standout as being exceptional, but function as substance addicts...

Truth is you just never know and sometimes the risks of putting the effort into a player like Ravel just aren't worth it for a club like Man U if they're going to get 10 games out of the lad in a season... when they could get 40 out of a lesser player.

And I haven't even touched on the PR aspect of a football club...

 

[Millhousesblade1889]

If you have seen him play in any of the games he's featured in he's literally the opposite to what Wilder tends to opt with. He plays extremely deep and seemed desperate to play the Besic / Norwood role instead of Duffy/ Freeman or Lundstrum/ Fleck roles.

I'm not sure he has this in his locker though, Coutts and Norwood was and are captain type players, they drop into positions when our CB's go bombing forward, they organise us throughout the game.

 

[BushBlade]

Possibly, but i don't think that its ever that cut and dried.

Fergie handled Giggs brilliantly but he was wonderkid plus wonder attitude.
Lee Sharpe was a talent, but Fergie got rid, didn't want the hassle. Perhaps because he already had one wonderkid in Giggs.
Beckham was ready straight after Sharpe.
Cristiano Ronaldo was a much rawer talent, but he cashed in before he blossomed.
Cantona was fucking nuts, he used him whilst he was at his peak.

Rooney was a talent, could've been more of a headache, but has been handled brilliantly

I don't think that it is always a simple case of whatever a manager says it won't make a difference. I think that sometimes there is an opportunity to spend time and effort on players and it will be worth it but other times the manager takes the opportunity to cash in.

There is also the question of whether a player develops into the player you want. At 16-18 they can be smashing it up as a tricky winger, but by 21 they could be more suited to centre mid or even wing back. Didn't Gareth Bale start out as a bit more of a wing back? Theo Wallcott was a sensation at 17 but a big move and injuries mean that he's never really reached the hype

I could list loads more players and players like Maradona, Gazza and Best would perhaps always fall into the same bracket as being able to fulfill most of their potential to make them standout as being exceptional, but function as substance addicts...

Truth is you just never know and sometimes the risks of putting the effort into a player like Ravel just aren't worth it for a club like Man U if they're going to get 10 games out of the lad in a season... when they could get 40 out of a lesser player.

And I haven't even touched on the PR aspect of a football club...

OK, let me put it another way. I don’t think Fergie was able to have a positive influence on Morrison and I don’t blame Fergie for that.

My wider point is that there is a view that if anything doesn’t work out as it’s supposed to do, it’s down to a failure of the manager. I don’t agree with that, sometimes in football and life, shit just happens.

 

[awblade]

Anyone who thinks he has a bad attitude or is “overhyped” just trying to fit a narrative to something they don’t know about.

He just hasn’t been able to get in a team that can’t afford to have flair and luxury players at the minute and that’s fine. He’s a gamble that might still pay off once he learns and fully understands his role as a player in our team.

Overhyped is comical I once played a game against him and I don’t think one of our players tackled him all game he could make anyone who came near him look ridiculous.

Football is about so much more than what you can do with a ball at your feet. Obviously it helps to be able to do that but doesn't make him a good player.

Vision, positioning and pattern recognition, all the mental stuff, is what separates top level team sportsmen

 

[madeinsheffield]

There's not many players that could push Ollie, Fleck & Lunny out of the team, they are consistently playing above where most expected them to, all motivated more by the fear of losing a shirt.

Rav is talented on the ball, I've seen that myself, I'm sure he'll get his chance at some point as the season is just about to get busy, I really hope he takes his chance

 

[guancheblade]

Article mentions him doing extra training sessions... so lack of effort can't be to blame for his lack of appearances surely? He will have been very unfit when he arrived and then he got his injury in pre-season. We're only just seeing Mousset getting close to full match fitness, so imagine how far behind Ravel will be fitness wise with his lack of minutes.

However, I previously proffered a suggestion on a separate thread a short while back - he'd be better cover for Didsy than any of our midfield given his technical attributes. And given how reliant we are becoming on a fit David McGoldrick we would be left a little on the back foot should he get injured again. But a fit and prepared Ravel Morrison could slot into that role IMO

https://www.s24su.com/forum/index.php?threads/unravelling-the-ravel-mystery.75851/

 

[SwissBlade]

OK, let me put it another way. I don’t think Fergie was able to have a positive influence on Morrison and I don’t blame Fergie for that.

My wider point is that there is a view that if anything doesn’t work out as it’s supposed to do, it’s down to a failure of the manager. I don’t agree with that, sometimes in football and life, shit just happens.

The point is that we don't know. Unless Fergie comes out and actually says that he tried to turn him around but couldn't then we'll never know.

Too many factors to put it down to one or two things...

• Other players available
• Negative PR that the club wants rid
• Cost
• No time to develop a player in the first team, so its better to move on
• Player doesn't develop into the player you expect
• Player wants to move.