Lesson from Yesterday

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McGrath

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One things for sure... we're definitely NOT a Hoof ball team. Let's hope we don't have to see it again for a long time.
 



McGrath said:
One things for sure... we're definitely NOT a Hoof ball team. Let's hope we don't have to see it again for a long time.
Click to expand...
Sounds like we didn't do very well at it in the first half, but second half we nailed it. Glad we matched them at it. Just shows how dynamic this side is
 
We had Hanson up there winning all the long balls but no one getting around him for knock downs.

It's not necessarily a bad thing as it shows what a good footballing team we've become.

A lots been made of the pitch, but we looked so much better and in control when Coutts came on. It does make you wonder whether things could have been different
 
For me, there are a number of lessons to be learned from yesterday.

1 Wilder let the pitch pick his team for him and I think that's wrong. And to prove it, we looked an awful lot better when Coutts and Lavery came on - two players that had been left out because of the pitch. That's BIG lesson number 1 to be learned I hope. Always pick your best 11 and don't leave key players out just because you think the conditions won't suit them. Good players can play in any conditions.

2 The inclusion of Done as LWB was mystifying (to me). We should know enough about Done by now to know that he's not able to play well in that position. He's also not good enough up front either - so as I said on here many months ago now - it's a real pity but that lad has nothing to offer to this team now - he'll be gone in summer. Whether Wilder thought that it was worth saving some legs and giving him a go on the left yesterday I don't know. But I think that was a poor decision - and hopefully there's another lesson learned there. Don't waste a starting place on Done.

3 The team lacked pace and energy, especially in attack. This improved when Lavery came on but as we know that was only temporary. I thought Sharp had a poor game tbh. He was nowhere near the knockdowns that were happening all afternoon from Hanson. Has Billy become too big that we daren't take him off when he is playing poorly? It's not an insult to take someone off you know - even though they may react like it. I'd have been tempted to try Chapman or Carruthers to give them some pace to worry about.

4 Oldham's best two players, for me, were Fane and Obadeyi. Fane, a 6'4" midfielder, had a very good game in midfield - and guess what? He was passing it on the deck all the time! Something we thought wasn't possible because of the pitch. And Obadeyi ran us ragged down the flanks with his pace. The main lesson for us here goes back to what I said at number 1 above - don't change the way you play because of the pitch. We should have had ball players in there and we should have used pace.

It's good we got something out of the game. But it could have been more. Oldham played well to be fair and credit to them. But...we're better than that. Far better than that.
 
Cerberus Blade said:
For me, there are a number of lessons to be learned from yesterday.

1 Wilder let the pitch pick his team for him and I think that's wrong. And to prove it, we looked an awful lot better when Coutts and Lavery came on - two players that had been left out because of the pitch. That's BIG lesson number 1 to be learned I hope. Always pick your best 11 and don't leave key players out just because you think the conditions won't suit them. Good players can play in any conditions.

2 The inclusion of Done as LWB was mystifying (to me). We should know enough about Done by now to know that he's not able to play well in that position. He's also not good enough up front either - so as I said on here many months ago now - it's a real pity but that lad has nothing to offer to this team now - he'll be gone in summer. Whether Wilder thought that it was worth saving some legs and giving him a go on the left yesterday I don't know. But I think that was a poor decision - and hopefully there's another lesson learned there. Don't waste a starting place on Done.

3 The team lacked pace and energy, especially in attack. This improved when Lavery came on but as we know that was only temporary. I thought Sharp had a poor game tbh. He was nowhere near the knockdowns that were happening all afternoon from Hanson. Has Billy become too big that we daren't take him off when he is playing poorly? It's not an insult to take someone off you know - even though they may react like it. I'd have been tempted to try Chapman or Carruthers to give them some pace to worry about.

4 Oldham's best two players, for me, were Fane and Obadeyi. Fane, a 6'4" midfielder, had a very good game in midfield - and guess what? He was passing it on the deck all the time! Something we thought wasn't possible because of the pitch. And Obadeyi ran us ragged down the flanks with his pace. The main lesson for us here goes back to what I said at number 1 above - don't change the way you play because of the pitch. We should have had ball players in there and we should have used pace.

It's good we got something out of the game. But it could have been more. Oldham played well to be fair and credit to them. But...we're better than that. Far better than that.
Click to expand...

He left them out as didn't think the pitch would do them any favours.

Lavern potentially being out for the season kind of hints that he was right.
 
The last time we tried hoof ball was against Rochdale at home and that was quite dire. Ironically Clarke won everything launched up to him that day but Sharp was nowhere near him to exploit the knock ons.

Back to the Desso on Tuesday, back to watching football.
 
Tufty's interview made it very clear. "We pride ourself on keeping possession and keeping the ball", "play football", "footballing team", "we are a passing team".

It's a constant theme with him. The S2 Hoofers in Retreat must be tearing their hair out.
 
Sharp is a great player in this league, but the goals he scores are "poacher" type goals, you get the odd display of a good striker but in the games I've watched when he's paired with Hanson, his footballing brain doesn't seem to get him into the positions required to take advantage of the knock downs, that's where the players behind seem to sweep up, O'shea is that type of player, and definitely not afraid to have a pop, we miss Duffy for the same reason, he seems to be able to provide the second ball that Sharp can latch onto.
Different tactics for teams works, and trying to save some key players makes sense to me, I'd rather Done role an ankle than Lavery to be honest, and I thought O'shea did exactly what he was there to do.
We did miss lafferty and Duffy but we didn't lose another game, and I also think we play better without landell, from what I've seen, I'd rather a back three of Bash, Wright and Oconnell, I think we look much better with that defence.
I'm sure Chris knows what he's doing however, or we wouldn't be top now would we!!!!! In Wilder we trust!!!!
 
I do think Wilder made the pitch an issue by adapting his personnel and tactics.

Thankfully this was a lesson with minor repercussions.

That said, what a disgrace that pitch was. How a professional football team in the third tier can be allowed to have that as a playing surface is a joke.

Points deduction or fine would be a suitable punishment.
 
If we are going to resort (Plan W, I hope) then Hanson needs to start with Lavery imo.

Lavery is intelligent and mobile off the ball which compliments the inevitable knockdowns that Hanson will create.

We would also benefit from Basham in CM.

Again I am not enabling the hoofwaffer tactics. But it is reassuring to know that, for the 1 in 30/40 games we might have to, that we can.
 
Cerberus Blade said:
For me, there are a number of lessons to be learned from yesterday.

1 Wilder let the pitch pick his team for him and I think that's wrong. And to prove it, we looked an awful lot better when Coutts and Lavery came on - two players that had been left out because of the pitch. That's BIG lesson number 1 to be learned I hope. Always pick your best 11 and don't leave key players out just because you think the conditions won't suit them. Good players can play in any conditions.

2 The inclusion of Done as LWB was mystifying (to me). We should know enough about Done by now to know that he's not able to play well in that position. He's also not good enough up front either - so as I said on here many months ago now - it's a real pity but that lad has nothing to offer to this team now - he'll be gone in summer. Whether Wilder thought that it was worth saving some legs and giving him a go on the left yesterday I don't know. But I think that was a poor decision - and hopefully there's another lesson learned there. Don't waste a starting place on Done.

3 The team lacked pace and energy, especially in attack. This improved when Lavery came on but as we know that was only temporary. I thought Sharp had a poor game tbh. He was nowhere near the knockdowns that were happening all afternoon from Hanson. Has Billy become too big that we daren't take him off when he is playing poorly? It's not an insult to take someone off you know - even though they may react like it. I'd have been tempted to try Chapman or Carruthers to give them some pace to worry about.

4 Oldham's best two players, for me, were Fane and Obadeyi. Fane, a 6'4" midfielder, had a very good game in midfield - and guess what? He was passing it on the deck all the time! Something we thought wasn't possible because of the pitch. And Obadeyi ran us ragged down the flanks with his pace. The main lesson for us here goes back to what I said at number 1 above - don't change the way you play because of the pitch. We should have had ball players in there and we should have used pace.

It's good we got something out of the game. But it could have been more. Oldham played well to be fair and credit to them. But...we're better than that. Far better than that.
Click to expand...


Cracking post my friend

My thoughts entirely (but couldn't have put as well as you have) - not being negative when we post these views , just that as you say , Chris let the pitch pick his team .
 
S11Blade said:
I do think Wilder made the pitch an issue by adapting his personnel and tactics.

Thankfully this was a lesson with minor repercussions.

That said, what a disgrace that pitch was. How a professional football team in the third tier can be allowed to have that as a playing surface is a joke.

Points deduction or fine would be a suitable punishment.
Click to expand...

I don't think a fine is beyond reason. They're a third tier, professional club with a pitch you would be pissed off about having to play on in the 6th or 7th tier. My Sunday league pitch is normally better than that.
 
Bell4 said:
Cracking post my friend

My thoughts entirely (but couldn't have put as well as you have) - not being negative when we post these views , just that as you say , Chris let the pitch pick his team .
Click to expand...

Devils advocate, if we had set up with our usual formation and players would we have lost that game? I say not, no coincidence when Coutts came on we played our best football and had the chances to win it.
 



Agree with much of what Cerberus says but Wilder had to take the pitch into account with the selection. As I've said, it was even worse than it looks. We had to put a team out that can scrap.

Sharp is NEVER anywhere near knockdowns. It's one of the reasons why you shouldn't look for a target man to be his primary strike partner.

The lack of pace was an issue, all over the team, but especially in attack. We only started to threaten with 3 up front with Lavery on.

One big positive is that we'll have Coutts, Carruthers and hopefully Duffy fresh for Tuesday, and maybe Lafferty too.
 
Ricky said:
Agree with much of what Cerberus says but Wilder had to take the pitch into account with the selection. As I've said, it was even worse than it looks. We had to put a team out that can scrap.

Sharp is NEVER anywhere near knockdowns. It's one of the reasons why you shouldn't look for a target man to be his primary strike partner.

The lack of pace was an issue, all over the team, but especially in attack. We only started to threaten with 3 up front with Lavery on.

One big positive is that we'll have Coutts, Carruthers and hopefully Duffy fresh for Tuesday, and maybe Lafferty too.
Click to expand...
Maybe it would have been a more 'usual' selection if we hadn't been playing Millwall on Tuesday?
 
I've said it before and I'll keep saying it. Lafferty is a player that deserves much credit. I really rate him, always have, was delighted when we signed him. We seem less assured and balanced when he is not there.
 
Glad I'm not the only player who realises that we miss Lafferty as much as anyone.

Ok, his final ball can be poo at times, his finishing ain't great but ball retention and defending wise he's pretty good. Has a good first touch and is happy to receive the ball. I was not happy with Done taking his place, and would have preferred JOC there with Bash at the back.
But i see why he did it, he wanted Bash and his drive and work rate in midfield. But we probably missed Coutts and his ability to keep recycling the ball.

Never mind, it's a point. Onwards and upwards....in my football predictor I had us down to draw that game anyway. And we still got 93 points
 
Pinchy said:
Tufty's interview made it very clear. "We pride ourself on keeping possession and keeping the ball", "play football", "footballing team", "we are a passing team".

It's a constant theme with him. The S2 Hoofers in Retreat must be tearing their hair out.
Click to expand...
ha ha yeah ,if they actually existed they would
Good one pinch
Classic pinchy
 
I wasn't happy walking up the stand at the final whistle yesterday, but today when sober (for that hour before 11) I had a moment to reflect,,

Maybe he knew or thought that the ball players wouldn't be effective, maybe he thought a point would be ok on a cabbage patch and didn't want to risk Duffy or coutts, maybe they're carrying a knock and he didn't want them on a heavy bumpy pitch... maybe he knows more about football than me, might be the reason I work in a warehouse and he manages the blades...

It's a point closer to where we wanna be, but if I'm totally honest I've been looking at winning the thing for the last 8 weeks and that's where the disappointment was stemming from yesterday.... we should just focus on promotion.

I think Bolton will pip us to the title.... sorry guys, for me the performances aren't the stuff of league winners, we'll be runners up should we not pull our fingers out..
 
Tezza1889 said:
I wasn't happy walking up the stand at the final whistle yesterday, but today when sober (for that hour before 11) I had a moment to reflect,,

Maybe he knew or thought that the ball players wouldn't be effective, maybe he thought a point would be ok on a cabbage patch and didn't want to risk Duffy or coutts, maybe they're carrying a knock and he didn't want them on a heavy bumpy pitch... maybe he knows more about football than me, might be the reason I work in a warehouse and he manages the blades...

It's a point closer to where we wanna be, but if I'm totally honest I've been looking at winning the thing for the last 8 weeks and that's where the disappointment was stemming from yesterday.... we should just focus on promotion.

I think Bolton will pip us to the title.... sorry guys, for me the performances aren't the stuff of league winners, we'll be runners up should we not pull our fingers out..
Click to expand...

Do you like a bet? If so get the best odds you can at the bookies and I'll beat them by a point.
 
Tezza1889 said:
I wasn't happy walking up the stand at the final whistle yesterday, but today when sober (for that hour before 11) I had a moment to reflect,,

Maybe he knew or thought that the ball players wouldn't be effective, maybe he thought a point would be ok on a cabbage patch and didn't want to risk Duffy or coutts, maybe they're carrying a knock and he didn't want them on a heavy bumpy pitch... maybe he knows more about football than me, might be the reason I work in a warehouse and he manages the blades...

It's a point closer to where we wanna be, but if I'm totally honest I've been looking at winning the thing for the last 8 weeks and that's where the disappointment was stemming from yesterday.... we should just focus on promotion.

I think Bolton will pip us to the title.... sorry guys, for me the performances aren't the stuff of league winners, we'll be runners up should we not pull our fingers out..
Click to expand...
So 10 unbeaten is shit? Our performances over the season have been fantastic. Top of he league ? Leading scorers, top goalscorer? Go to bed and dream about the bad times. THE BLADES ARE BACK!
 
It's about opinions lads n lasses...

We don't look like a team who will win the league, if you think differently then fine, but me personally I think we're going up at a canter, winning the league, take it as a bonus...
 
I'm not keen on Sharp drifting out wide a lot of the time as it doesn't suit his game but he could be doing this to bring defenders out there towards him, to create space for an attacking midfielder like O Shea, to come from deeper, to collect a knockdown or two from Hanson.

Tactics eh? who'd have thought it! :)
 
Bruce Wayne said:
Devils advocate, if we had set up with our usual formation and players would we have lost that game? I say not, no coincidence when Coutts came on we played our best football and had the chances to win it.
Click to expand...

Wilder changed the side around ( bearing in mind we supposedly have a strong squad ) , to ensure minimal knocks and injuries to players . Hanson turned his ankle at Rochdale . Rightly or wrongly we came away with 1 point not 3.

Bolton will win at Oldham because the stop start , set pieces , direct football will get them the result .

We are still on track , and could have had 3 .

Wilder has been there , done it , and got the tee shirts with promotion , so he knows the score . We have to keep level headed , but it's hard to do so .
 
Cerberus Blade said:
For me, there are a number of lessons to be learned from yesterday.

1 Wilder let the pitch pick his team for him and I think that's wrong. And to prove it, we looked an awful lot better when Coutts and Lavery came on - two players that had been left out because of the pitch. That's BIG lesson number 1 to be learned I hope. Always pick your best 11 and don't leave key players out just because you think the conditions won't suit them. Good players can play in any conditions.

2 The inclusion of Done as LWB was mystifying (to me). We should know enough about Done by now to know that he's not able to play well in that position. He's also not good enough up front either - so as I said on here many months ago now - it's a real pity but that lad has nothing to offer to this team now - he'll be gone in summer. Whether Wilder thought that it was worth saving some legs and giving him a go on the left yesterday I don't know. But I think that was a poor decision - and hopefully there's another lesson learned there. Don't waste a starting place on Done.

3 The team lacked pace and energy, especially in attack. This improved when Lavery came on but as we know that was only temporary. I thought Sharp had a poor game tbh. He was nowhere near the knockdowns that were happening all afternoon from Hanson. Has Billy become too big that we daren't take him off when he is playing poorly? It's not an insult to take someone off you know - even though they may react like it. I'd have been tempted to try Chapman or Carruthers to give them some pace to worry about.

4 Oldham's best two players, for me, were Fane and Obadeyi. Fane, a 6'4" midfielder, had a very good game in midfield - and guess what? He was passing it on the deck all the time! Something we thought wasn't possible because of the pitch. And Obadeyi ran us ragged down the flanks with his pace. The main lesson for us here goes back to what I said at number 1 above - don't change the way you play because of the pitch. We should have had ball players in there and we should have used pace.

It's good we got something out of the game. But it could have been more. Oldham played well to be fair and credit to them. But...we're better than that. Far better than that.
Click to expand...
Nail, head
 



S11Blade said:
I do think Wilder made the pitch an issue by adapting his personnel and tactics.

Thankfully this was a lesson with minor repercussions.

That said, what a disgrace that pitch was. How a professional football team in the third tier can be allowed to have that as a playing surface is a joke.

Points deduction or fine would be a suitable punishment.
Click to expand...
Oldham haven't got "a pot to piss in" what good would fining them do. I would imagine they have to prioritise where they spend money.
 
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