League One..Time well spent?

All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?

HVR said:
I was quite annoyed when they sacked Clough – thought he would eventually get us up.

However, on reflection, having remembered this season and how exciting and upbeat it can be in Bramall Lane, I get the feeling that had we gone up in 2015 we would have been stuck 4th-8th from bottom and facing the same for 6-7 years under Clough, playing dire football, low crowds, 0-0 draws and not improving.

So I'm glad we missed out on promotion for the last 2 seasons and got Wilder, I think next season under Wilder will leap-frog any "consolidation progress" we would have made with a 2 Year Clough in the Championship stint. We may even have come back down to League One this season!
Click to expand...

^^^This
 



I'm not really a fan of this what if this that and the other, you know if your dad hadn't met your mum well we wouldn't be here to have this discussion. You might think that if we'd appointed Wilder earlier then we'd have been promoted quicker but there's no guarantee of that, different set of players, would Knill have been with him, perhaps the experience he gained in the meantime better prepared him. The point being that (and obviously), we are where we are, right manager, right place, right time, it was destined to be. Now we can look forward to the next chapter with a bit more optimism and the highs we will hopefully experience will make us appreciate the lows such as the Bury away game all the more.
 
elgoog44 said:
I think it was a lot to do with how he came across in the presentation as well, made you sit up and take notice after NC who had never really seemed at ease with the media, agree his CV was the right one for what we wanted to do, as you say didn't work out and looks like no other club at the moment is willing to take a punt on him either after us and the Reading debacle.
Click to expand...
I wonder how much of that is down to our pay-off. I wouldn't have agreed a lump sum so that he could take the money and get a new job, with us buying him a new house or whatever. I'd have stage paid it until he got another job, then looked to either stop paying or reduce the payment (his compo is based on loss of earning through breach of contract so if he starts earning again it weakens his claim, that's why some clubs put managers on 'gardening leave' or have a clause in the contract limiting the amount of compensation payable).

So, I suspect we're still paying him off and that's why he can take his time choosing his next club. If he gets the next job wrong he'll be back to being a physio or managing in non-league. Only Danny Wilson and Russell Slade seem to get away with repeated failure.
 
coaxingstar71 said:
I'm not really a fan of this what if this that and the other, you know if your dad hadn't met your mum well we wouldn't be here to have this discussion. You might think that if we'd appointed Wilder earlier then we'd have been promoted quicker but there's no guarantee of that, different set of players, would Knill have been with him, perhaps the experience he gained in the meantime better prepared him. The point being that (and obviously), we are where we are, right manager, right place, right time, it was destined to be. Now we can look forward to the next chapter with a bit more optimism and the highs we will hopefully experience will make us appreciate the lows such as the Bury away game all the more.
Click to expand...
So, you didn't rate 'Sliding Doors' then? ;)
 
Fulwood Blade said:
Time well spent? - I hope it taught a few in the board room a few lessons, but we spent 3 or 4 years longer down here than we should. Six years was shocking.

Thanks CW & AK for sorting it.

UTB
Click to expand...

Agreed ...... we spent six long years down in L1 due to the gross incompetence at Boardroom level, together with a selection of crap managers and a sprinkling of players who were in it for the money ...... and nothing else !! :mad:o_O

Thank you Tufty ..... for restoring some pride to the Club and for refusing to sign highly paid mercenaries like Hammond ....... top Blade !!

UTB & FTP
 
BushBlade said:
I wonder how much of that is down to our pay-off. I wouldn't have agreed a lump sum so that he could take the money and get a new job, with us buying him a new house or whatever. I'd have stage paid it until he got another job, then looked to either stop paying or reduce the payment (his compo is based on loss of earning through breach of contract so if he starts earning again it weakens his claim, that's why some clubs put managers on 'gardening leave' or have a clause in the contract limiting the amount of compensation payable).

So, I suspect we're still paying him off and that's why he can take his time choosing his next club. If he gets the next job wrong he'll be back to being a physio or managing in non-league. Only Danny Wilson and Russell Slade seem to get away with repeated failure.
Click to expand...

I forgot we would still be paying him for the failure he produced, fuck me after a season like this and we still have to pay him as well, I think he will get a club that take a risk like us but ultimately if he fails again I think that will be Career limiting in management, does make me wonder where he will end up and if he will ever manage to win another promotion?

if all else fails could apply to be Mr motivator on ITV.

Slade and Wilson seem to be able to notch job after job doing a shit mediocre and failed job, then walk into the next one, never understood it myself, seems the big mouthed Scottish one is going the same way, Steve Evans.
 
BushBlade said:
So, you didn't rate 'Sliding Doors' then? ;)
Click to expand...

On the contrary, it's a very interesting subject, however, like reincarnation, no ones ever proved it's possible. I'd like to think there is an alternative reality where the Blades appointed Brian Clough when Harris retired, he built the team around Currie and Woody and we went onto win several European Cups. Unfortunately this has only happened in my imagination and on Championship Manager!
 
elgoog44 said:
I forgot we would still be paying him for the failure he produced, fuck me after a season like this and we still have to pay him as well, I think he will get a club that take a risk like us but ultimately if he fails again I think that will be Career limiting in management, does make me wonder where he will end up and if he will ever manage to win another promotion?

if all else fails could apply to be Mr motivator on ITV.

Slade and Wilson seem to be able to notch job after job doing a shit mediocre and failed job, then walk into the next one, never understood it myself, seems the big mouthed Scottish one is going the same way, Steve Evans.
Click to expand...
Evans has a very good record though. Shouldn't have been sacked by Rotherham and sorted Mansfield out quite convincingly. I'm not a betting man but if I were I'd back Mansfield to make the playoffs next season as a minimum.

Don't like the bloke but he's certainly talented at L1/2 level.
 
BushBlade said:
Evans has a very good record though. Shouldn't have been sacked by Rotherham and sorted Mansfield out quite convincingly. I'm not a betting man but if I were I'd back Mansfield to make the playoffs next season as a minimum.

Don't like the bloke but he's certainly talented at L1/2 level.
Click to expand...

Maybe have a pointy on Evans, still don't like him but quite right about Rotherham, in fact during that period really did well for them, leeds was a failed experiment but was always going to be a difficult appointment, L1 / L2 is about his level really glad we never went down that road.
 
elgoog44 said:
Maybe have a pointy on Evans, still don't like him but quite right about Rotherham, in fact during that period really did well for them, leeds was a failed experiment but was always going to be a difficult appointment, L1 / L2 is about his level really glad we never went down that road.
Click to expand...
I could do without anyone with a suspect reputation, called Evans, joining our club but what can you do?
 
Sheffsteel said:
I hear this "well run club" cliche and "badly run club" cliche all the time on Talksport radio.

It seems that virtually every club that gains promotion is a "well run club"
And virtually every club that is relegated is a "badly run club".

So that means that if every club owner was fantastic and ran their club fantastically well.
It would still mean 3 clubs are relegated at the end of the season, so by definition they can't be well run.

You hear about "badly run clubs" always selling their best and constantly chopping and changing their manager. Well isn't that what Southampton do? And they are often quoted as a well run club.

Another common trend regards "badly run clubs" are where foreign owners don't communicate, don't respect tradition, change the shirt colours, get rid of stripes, massively increase prices on everything, gamble by paying out extortionate wages the club can't afford (Portsmouth style) etc etc.

Well isn't this what's happening at S6? And their fans think their owner is fantastic.
If they fail to get promoted and struggle next season and announce big financial losses meaning they have to start down sizing paying off contracts then many Wednesdayites would say how their foreign manager ruined their club etc etc.

Just proves how fickle most fans are. Win a few and they accept anything.
Click to expand...

I personally wouldnt class Southanpton as a badly run club these days the selling of players is inevitable if you want to live within your means the biggest clubs can outspend everyone and can afford to carry eye watering debts for me At Madrid,Dortmund and Soton are example of clubs that went all or bust and ended up the latter and since then should be considered model clubs

No player is bigger than the club when the player starts making noises about a move and more money they move them on for a good profit and replace them with someone who in a few years will be moved on again for an even bigger profit.

Your point about if every club was a well run club 3 would still get relegated is a fair point but it's never the case, relegation is a 2 case scenario your either two small to carry on in that league and your time eventually is up or your poorly run and it take its toll.

As for them lot they are deluded. If it wasn't so funny to watch it would be painful. The bubble will inevitably pop and the bubble is currently bigger than its ever been over there. Worst/best part is they don't seem to have any saleable assets just players who are close to being past their prime on HUGE wages, I mean astronomical wages.if/when the fish man gets fed up and stops propping them up I feel it maybe the death of them this time.
 
BushBlade said:
I could do without anyone with a suspect reputation, called Evans, joining our club but what can you do?
Click to expand...

The Welsh athletic one has his verdict overturned and is an innocent man.

The little fat Scottish one was found guilty by the FA for contract irregularities and suspended for 20 months. His appeal was thrown out.

Sadly, the 'innocent' one will be the one who cops for the Sun and Mail headlines, should he so much as fart out of turn.
 
HVR said:
I was quite annoyed when they sacked Clough – thought he would eventually get us up.

However, on reflection, having remembered this season and how exciting and upbeat it can be in Bramall Lane, I get the feeling that had we gone up in 2015 we would have been stuck 4th-8th from bottom and facing the same for 6-7 years under Clough, playing dire football, low crowds, 0-0 draws and not improving.

So I'm glad we missed out on promotion for the last 2 seasons and got Wilder, I think next season under Wilder will leap-frog any "consolidation progress" we would have made with a 2 Year Clough in the Championship stint. We may even have come back down to League One this season!
Click to expand...

I think that after managing in the league since January 2009 you can say that Clough has his good points as a manager but several big flaws:

1. He is stubborn to the point where it becomes counter productive.

2. Whilst he is good at taking on a squad and getting decent (and often better) performances out of them, his own squad building leaves a lot to be desired.

3. He is completely incapable of constructing a team that will score enough goals to be an automatic promotion contender.

With regard to the second and last points, it is telling that when Clough did get promoted with Burton (a) he inherited the squad from someone else mid season and (b) they scored only 57 goals, which is the lowest total by a promoted team in decades, and relied on a superb defence.

Clough is good at keeping you in a division but won't get you promoted save in exceptional circumstances.
 
I should coco said:
The Welsh athletic one has his verdict overturned and is an innocent man.

The little fat Scottish one was found guilty by the FA for contract irregularities and suspended for 20 months. His appeal was thrown out.

Sadly, the 'innocent' one will be the one who cops for the Sun and Mail headlines, should he so much as fart out of turn.
Click to expand...
I wasn't really suggesting any similarities between the two other than I'd rather neither of them had anything to do with United.
 
BushBlade said:
No, but I could just as easily name ten clubs that are better run than us, including some with foreign ownership.
Click to expand...
some clubs have more investment than us ,
we are well run for a bloke whos worth 150 m ,
any list of better run clubs would all have more investment
weve never been linked with tax closures or 50 million plus debts

weve employed a few naff managers, but so has every club
Blackburn bought a prem title and 22 years later they are in league one,,, shit happens
 



blade too long said:
some clubs have more investment than us ,
we are well run for a bloke whos worth 150 m ,
any list of better run clubs would all have more investment
weve never been linked with tax closures or 50 million plus debts

weve employed a few naff managers, but so has every club
Blackburn bought a prem title and 22 years later they are in league one,,, shit happens
Click to expand...
Our debts were to KM and he wrote them off. He's since put in more money, as has our other owner. It's ridiculous to suggest we haven't had investment. We have. We didn't spend it wisely or effectively until this season.

You've fallen into the trap of assuming I'm just going to do a list of PL clubs and say they're well run. In many cases they aren't. They're wasteful and inefficient and could learn from clubs like Walsall.

As for Blackburn, it's a prime example of a badly run club. Not because they've gone down, that is a manifestation of their inability to run a club. I'm not going to go into it on here because I don't care about Blackburn but it's all documented.

Football clubs are like any other business or organisation, some are well run, some are OK, some are awful and barely survive.
 
BushBlade said:
Our debts were to KM and he wrote them off. He's since put in more money, as has our other owner. It's ridiculous to suggest we haven't had investment. We have. We didn't spend it wisely or effectively until this season.

You've fallen into the trap of assuming I'm just going to do a list of PL clubs and say they're well run. In many cases they aren't. They're wasteful and inefficient and could learn from clubs like Walsall.

As for Blackburn, it's a prime example of a badly run club. Not because they've gone down, that is a manifestation of their inability to run a club. I'm not going to go into it on here because I don't care about Blackburn but it's all documented.

Football clubs are like any other business or organisation, some are well run, some are OK, some are awful and barely survive.
Click to expand...
I never said we havent had investment was argueing weve done ok with the level of investment we get
its not man city or spurs level or even west brom or stoke , but its been steady
 
blade too long said:
I never said we havent had investment was argueing weve done ok with the level of investment we get
its not man city or spurs level or even west brom or stoke , but its been steady
Click to expand...
And I'm arguing that we haven't. That with our level of investment since going down in 2007 we shouldn't have been anywhere near L1, never mind spend six years in it.

Spurs get no investment and usually make a small profit. Spurs are run as a business first and a football club second. But they had a head start as they've always been a big club. Spurs' model has probably been the most efficient and effective over the last ten years but football changes so quickly these day there's no guarantee that it will work over the next ten years.

And one thing I should add, is that I don't think for one minute running a football club is easy. It's not. It's very difficult which is why so many intelligent and capable people struggle to do it.
 
the fact that so many clubs cant cope with re aligning wages and contracts when falling out of a division shows how difficult it is

fall out of the prem and the playing staff are on unsustainable contracts and wages
had Newcastle not gone straight back up they d be in dire danger with their wage bills
We would have coped admirably if wed bounced straight back , but circumstances conspired to cause us a major income short fall
 
mancunianblade said:
Been thinking about our time in League one, been some great away days and some days that were nothing short of depressing but can't help but feel if we had gone up any other season we wouldnt do much up in the Championship and may have even come back down.

I can't help but feel that come the end of the 2017/18 season we will be in a better position with Wilder than if any of our other league 1 Managers had gotten us promoted and had a number of seasons up there to work with.

We've seen some terrible players over the league One years but now we have a great manager,probably the most sought after one in the football league, we have a good squad on reasonable wages and good contract that weigh in our favour..it's as if the club has been cleansed.

Promotion is Looooong Over due but I am wondering if people think it was worth the wait?

Would anyone trade what we have now in this moment for promotion under Clough,Adkins or Wilson?

I get Wilson had a good squad to compete in the Championship but does anyone think we actually would have competed?
Click to expand...

Of course it's not time well spent. I mean...come on. Even Nigel Adkins wouldn't be able to find anything positive to say about spending 6 years at a level of English football that is way beneath the potential of the club. If you think of all the lost revenue that this period has cost us then financially its been a disaster. Thank heavens for the fantastic supporters who have stayed behind the club despite everything. If the support had dwindled to the levels it was at last time we were in the old 3rd division then it could have crippled the club for a long time to come.

You seem to be suggesting that maybe it's been worth it taking longer because now we've got Wilder? But what's to say we wouldn't have got Wilder sooner if we'd been promoted and then struggled? It's such a hypothetical question it just cannot be answered.

All I know is, it would have been much better if we'd got promoted earlier, no matter who was in charge. But we are now in the best position we've been in for a while in terms of quality of squad and manager.
 
blade too long said:
the fact that so many clubs cant cope with re aligning wages and contracts when falling out of a division shows how difficult it is

fall out of the prem and the playing staff are on unsustainable contracts and wages
had Newcastle not gone straight back up they d be in dire danger with their wage bills
We would have coped admirably if wed bounced straight back , but circumstances conspired to cause us a major income short fall
Click to expand...
Circumstances that we were able to control. Like not appointing Robson or Blackwell, or spending sensibly in the knowledge we might not go up.

If Newcastle hadn't gone up, they'd have got the same parachute payments as this season. As will Norwich and Villa. That has changed since we went down. That's why I say you can't guarantee that what works now will work in ten years, or what worked ten years ago will work now. It's a dynamic and fluid environment and that only makes it even more difficult.
 
BushBlade said:
Circumstances that we were able to control. Like not appointing Robson or Blackwell, or spending sensibly in the knowledge we might not go up.

If Newcastle hadn't gone up, they'd have got the same parachute payments as this season. As will Norwich and Villa. That has changed since we went down. That's why I say you can't guarantee that what works now will work in ten years, or what worked ten years ago will work now. It's a dynamic and fluid environment and that only makes it even more difficult.
Click to expand...
plenty of clubs have had parachute payments and plenty are in or have been league one
norwich managed to fall through before
we are one of many thats trod that path, in 6 seasons we nearly got out or got out in 4 of them
only 1 7th and one 13th
 
blade too long said:
plenty of clubs have had parachute payments and plenty are in or have been league one
norwich managed to fall through before
we are one of many thats trod that path, in 6 seasons we nearly got out or got out in 4 of them
only 1 7th and one 13th
Click to expand...
Yes, the badly run ones. We're going round in circles here. However you dress it up, we shouldn't have been in L1 for the length of time we have.
 
Not really time well spent, but we have eventually gone up in just about the best manner possible.
Over our time in L1, we've had 2 good seasons, the first and the last, and 2 good cup runs. All else was dire.

We'll never know what would've happened if Wilson had taken us up in his first season. I like to think we'd have stayed up, but who knows from there on. The overall outlook of the club at that point was not promising.

The only thing worth considering is that given Wilder's obvious nature as a winner, and his love for The Blades, it's possible that he would've come to us anyway at some point, be it via success at other clubs. That's one scenario where we could speculate that we would be in a much better situation, that Wilder had taken over a struggling side in the Championship rather than one in L1. In the end, all that matters is that the club feels like its fully united for the first time in what feels like forever, and long may it continue.
 



Fulwood Blade said:
True the club is a car crash - but by appointing Parkinson it proved to be a good decision and we have to say well done, even though it hurts a bit.
Big, strong players worked a dream. Some were advocating that for us and I am sure it would have worked, just glad we stumbled on CW at the right time.

Be interesting to see what Bolton and Parky do next season. Some of us didn't expect Coterill to last long at Bristol once they went up, perhaps Parky will go the same way.

UTB
Click to expand...

Yeah, agreed about Bolton. Had the ingredients there suggesting a lengthy stay down at this level (or even below) if they didn't climb straight back up.

Got to credit their board for selecting Parkinson as the dour scrapper with thick skin who could do a job. And credit to Parky himself, especially when the heat was really on with a month or so to go (when they went to Fleetwood, thrashed them, and set the wobbly ship to rights).

They're ugly as hell, but they've done what they needed to and injected some joy into the ever-growing misery around their club. And I'd imagine they'd readily embrace playing the underdog next season and scrapping to stay up, and that Parky would relish that sort of a challenge.

Knowing what football clubs are like though, if he's got them in, say, 20th place around Christmas, he'll probably get sacked, their fans will be chuffed, and they'll end up getting relegated again in disarray.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Nedski
Have we had any successful loan signings from clubs outside the Premier League?
Replies
16
Views
620
Gin&Juice
Gin&Juice
DroitwichBlade
What if….
Replies
15
Views
1K
beatific blade
beatific blade
FMBlade1
Unpopular opinion: the celebrations were a bit OTT
6 7 8
Replies
226
Views
13K
Gimli
Gimli
The Fox
Top flight players
2
Replies
37
Views
2K
s20Blade
s20Blade
C
Goal difference may be important
2
Replies
30
Views
1K
YES Blade
YES Blade

All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?

All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?

Back
Top Bottom