(Lack of) Athletic Development...

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

At the risk of getting lost in the maelstrom of Lundtram/McBurnie hating posts, one thing stood out tonight...

How leggy and slow we looked. Plus I can't think of one player (maybe Baldock) who you'd look at and say he's an elite level athlete. From a slow front two, to a midfield three that aren't mobile and seem to be outmuscled in every challenge, to a back 3 that look like bambi on ice...

if we're to be critical of Tufty and his coaching this past year, it's that a) we havent bought in better athletes and b) the athletic development of those here has been poor at best/pathetic at worst.

When Tufty talks about poor in both boxes - well that's because our players in both boxes look slow, old and confused.

Case in point - Burke came on and the runs he made stretched the play and opened lanes for Fleck to exploit...

 

[jono_t2000]

To be fair we've lashed virtually the same team together since league 1 for four years now. Wilder generally only rotates a player when forced to through injury. To expect the same 11 players to play every game each season with virtually no rotation.... Eventually players are going to get worn down and injured like they are now.

 

[Yogi]

At the risk of getting lost in the maelstrom of Lundtram/McBurnie hating posts, one thing stood out tonight...

How leggy and slow we looked. Plus I can't think of one player (maybe Baldock) who you'd look at and say he's an elite level athlete. From a slow front two, to a midfield three that aren't mobile and seem to be outmuscled in every challenge, to a back 3 that look like bambi on ice...

if we're to be critical of Tufty and his coaching this past year, it's that a) we havent bought in better athletes and b) the athletic development of those here has been poor at best/pathetic at worst.

When Tufty talks about poor in both boxes - well that's because our players in both boxes look slow, old and confused.

Case in point - Burke came on and the runs he made stretched the play and opened lanes for Fleck to exploit...

I think your analysis and overall point is very fair however I’d say we have looked to bring in better athletes more recently Berge is a good athlete for his size and carries the ball well. Burke as you’ve pointed out is a very good athlete and bogle also is no slouch. In fact out of this summers major outfield business only Brewster and Lowe are average athletes. I think it’s something the management teams is aware of it just cost a lot of money to bring in.

 

[Jan Age]

At the risk of getting lost in the maelstrom of Lundtram/McBurnie hating posts, one thing stood out tonight...

How leggy and slow we looked. Plus I can't think of one player (maybe Baldock) who you'd look at and say he's an elite level athlete. From a slow front two, to a midfield three that aren't mobile and seem to be outmuscled in every challenge, to a back 3 that look like bambi on ice...

if we're to be critical of Tufty and his coaching this past year, it's that a) we havent bought in better athletes and b) the athletic development of those here has been poor at best/pathetic at worst.

When Tufty talks about poor in both boxes - well that's because our players in both boxes look slow, old and confused.

Case in point - Burke came on and the runs he made stretched the play and opened lanes for Fleck to exploit...

Please tell me it’s not taken until this point to realise we are a slow team? .... it’s inexcusable that we have not signed several players with genuine pace.... most people sat in a boozer playing the Jeff Stelling drinking game can tell you that the one thing you need to stand a chance in the prem is pace

 

[BigDon]

we have pace in Burke he showed once again how effective he is, why can't CW see this and start him every game

 

[Guesty]

I reckon a lot of it will be mental. It must be hard to find those extra yards when, whatever happens from here on in, the team is going to be ignominiously relegated.

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

I think your analysis and overall point is very fair however I’d say we have looked to bring in better athletes more recently Berge is a good athlete for his size and carries the ball well. Burke as you’ve pointed out is a very good athlete and bogle also is no slouch. In fact out of this summers major outfield business only Brewster and Lowe are average athletes. I think it’s something the management teams is aware of it just cost a lot of money to bring in.

I'd argue one of the surprising things about Berge is his lack of athleticism. He's got the body size and youth, but even last season he laboured, got out jumped and didn't exactly impose himself.

If you think back to the first few months of our PL existence, we were high intensity, high energy - Wilder even made a thing of saying that's a given.

Now we're a bunch of also rans just waiting to be put out of our misery...

 

[yorkshirecoast]

I’m sure I recall the old Wilder (you know, the one before he became shite) saying we needed more pace and athleticism pre-season. Yet none of his signings bar Bogle addressed that. Bonkers.

 

[Yogi]

I'd argue one of the surprising things about Berge is his lack of athleticism. He's got the body size and youth, but even last season he laboured, got out jumped and didn't exactly impose himself.

If you think back to the first few months of our PL existence, we were high intensity, high energy - Wilder even made a thing of saying that's a given.

Now we're a bunch of also rans just waiting to be put out of our misery...

I agree the squad as a whole look leggy I think Berge is deceptive because of the long gait he has but he covers ground. In that Leeds game at the start of the season he ran their midfield ragged before in typical united style this year giving the ball away for the winning goal although he was in my opinion fouled.

 

[Nah den]

I think Berge is deceptive due to his 'style' of movement. Carrying the ball he is no slouch, I think a bit of a lack of self belief in a new team/system/country hindered him.

But I agree, it's obvious we don't compete physically in this league. Particularly midfield. Lundstram appears not to care, and Norwood and Fleck are too small and slow. Case in point the Fulham game. Couldn't get near a truly awful team. Says a lot about us.

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

I think Berge is deceptive due to his 'style' of movement. Carrying the ball he is no slouch, I think a bit of a lack of self belief in a new team/system/country hindered him.

But I agree, it's obvious we don't compete physically in this league. Particularly midfield. Lundstram appears not to care, and Norwood and Fleck are too small and slow. Case in point the Fulham game. Couldn't get near a truly awful team. Says a lot about us.

That's exactly my point. Midfield is where the PL has really evolved in the past 12 months. We've got slower and less athletic as every other PL team has got more athletic and much faster. How many games this season as an opposition midfield just run straight through us?

I just looked at our team today with McGoldrick/McBurnie upfront, with Fleck, Norwood, Lundstram behind and just couldn't believe how laboured it all looked.

Jagielka looked our liveliest player FFS! Whilst we're on that subject, how good did Bryan look with Jags next to him compared to how bad he looked after Jags went off...

 

[SwissBlade]

At the risk of getting lost in the maelstrom of Lundtram/McBurnie hating posts, one thing stood out tonight...

How leggy and slow we looked. Plus I can't think of one player (maybe Baldock) who you'd look at and say he's an elite level athlete. From a slow front two, to a midfield three that aren't mobile and seem to be outmuscled in every challenge, to a back 3 that look like bambi on ice...

if we're to be critical of Tufty and his coaching this past year, it's that a) we havent bought in better athletes and b) the athletic development of those here has been poor at best/pathetic at worst.

When Tufty talks about poor in both boxes - well that's because our players in both boxes look slow, old and confused.

Case in point - Burke came on and the runs he made stretched the play and opened lanes for Fleck to exploit...

I love your analysis mate and I know you’ve worked at top levels of sport, but I think when you look first at the losses of players we’ve had that’s the first big point. We’ve simply lost around half the squad during the season, a squad that has to be at full tilt.

Secondly, recruitment has clearly targeted, on the whole, players that have all the physical attributes to be top athletes (even mousse). Mostly this is something which has improved since each player has signed (except mousse)

Third, we were chasing the champions around the park... which leads me to...

Finally, this is my biggest point - Jags (38), Billy (35), Enda (30), fleck (29) Norwood (29) and Didsy (33) all played their part today. The young kids haven’t transitioned in as we wanted them to... yet. They will.

The result is something else, but I think the athletic part of this side tonight would be hard to question.

 

[SUFCinks]

I dont disagree but i think whilst thats importants it’s not as important as technical ability. Players who can pass their way out of trouble and are composed before filling the team with more player like burke. Footballers first, ideally athletic ones, then inject sone pace in key places.

i think the reason we are in this mess is because Wilder has pursued the ‘athletic’ approach to make us ‘competitive’ and try and out work the opposition but at the expense of other qualities.

enda, oconell, baldock, bash, burke, lunny, fleck, osborne, are all ‘athletic’ in terms of being physical, pacey or endurance athletes but many lack the gravy/skills to be prem players. You can’t compete with loads of runners and triers. You need much better baseline ability first.

 

[JJBlade]

I dont disagree but i think whilst thats importants it’s not as important as technical ability. Players who can pass their way out of trouble and are composed before filling the team with more player like burke. Footballers first, ideally athletic ones, then inject sone pace in key places.

i think the reason we are in this mess is because Wilder has pursued the ‘athletic’ approach to make us ‘competitive’ and try and out work the opposition but at the expense of other qualities.

enda, oconell, baldock, bash, burke, lunny, fleck, osborne, are all ‘athletic’ in terms of being physical, pacey or endurance athletes but many lack the gravy/skills to be prem players. You can’t compete with loads of runners and triers. You need much better baseline ability first.

Absolutely
Speed of thought is what's important

Pace is only a decent attribute if you have a quick footballing brain

The football world is full of speedsters who can't stay onside, can't control a ball, can't pass or cross, and can't get into dangerous positions because their footballing minds are nowhere near as fast as their legs

 

[SWB]

To be honest you need pace & skill. Our lack of pace has been one thing that our team as a whole have never had throughout Wilders reign , much as I appreciate him.

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

I love your analysis mate and I know you’ve worked at top levels of sport, but I think when you look first at the losses of players we’ve had that’s the first big point. We’ve simply lost around half the squad during the season, a squad that has to be at full tilt.

Secondly, recruitment has clearly targeted, on the whole, players that have all the physical attributes to be top athletes (even mousse). Mostly this is something which has improved since each player has signed (except mousse)

Third, we were chasing the champions around the park... which leads me to...

Finally, this is my biggest point - Jags (38), Billy (35), Enda (30), fleck (29) Norwood (29) and Didsy (33) all played their part today. The young kids haven’t transitioned in as we wanted them to... yet. They will.

The result is something else, but I think the athletic part of this side tonight would be hard to question.

Great points mate. I was going to mention age but didn't want it to be an easy cop out for the lack of athleticism, but the two are clearly related.

Again, don't want to be coming across as anti-Wilder but I feel they're valid criticisms. However, he's been at the helm 5 years and we've not seen any sign of a youth player coming through. Right now, more than ever we need that energy that comes from having two or three players that will cover every Blade of grass and kick anything above ankle height.

The top and bottom is, he's tried to buy younger more dynamic players, but he's just bought really really badly and that is what has killed us.

Hopefully next season, the likes of Brewster/Bogle/Bryan/RND/Burke will change all of that....

 

[Revolution]

Every week we are out-muscled, out jumped and outrun. Our players look puny and unfit compared to those of every other team this season.

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

Every week we are out-muscled, out jumped and outrun. Our players look puny and unfit compared to those of every other team this season.

Nice summation of my lengthy post and replies.

Two sentences which are the epitaph of our season.

Whoever Lundstram was working under during that Summer trip to Dubai needs to be brought in and made head of our athletic department. That and buy a shit load of EPO...

 

[EddieColquhoun]

However, he's been at the helm 5 years and we've not seen any sign of a youth player coming through.

Any? He played DCL when he first arrived. Gave Ramsdale, Brooks, Slater and Hackford their debuts and Gordon, Brunt and Ndiaye have been on the bench in recent weeks.

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

Any? He played DCL when he first arrived. Gave Ramsdale, Brooks, Slater and Hackford their debuts and Gordon, Brunt and Ndiaye have been on the bench in recent weeks.

Clutching at straws there buddy.

How many league games have any of those started for us?

And Brooks should really have an asterisk by his name...

 

[metalblade]

I think the general fitness levels of the team is piss poor at the moment in the promotion season and first half of last season we looked one of the fittest teams around. Post lockdown other teams came back much fitter and stronger than we did and how it shows. This season we have regressed further and look shot after the hour mark. Looking at the number of injuries tells us something is not quite up to scratch too.

 

[Snowflake]

At the risk of getting lost in the maelstrom of Lundtram/McBurnie hating posts, one thing stood out tonight...

How leggy and slow we looked. Plus I can't think of one player (maybe Baldock) who you'd look at and say he's an elite level athlete. From a slow front two, to a midfield three that aren't mobile and seem to be outmuscled in every challenge, to a back 3 that look like bambi on ice...

if we're to be critical of Tufty and his coaching this past year, it's that a) we havent bought in better athletes and b) the athletic development of those here has been poor at best/pathetic at worst.

When Tufty talks about poor in both boxes - well that's because our players in both boxes look slow, old and confused.

Case in point - Burke came on and the runs he made stretched the play and opened lanes for Fleck to exploit...

When young I think I was a good athlete, but did that help my club when my talent was limited ? No !

 

[Houston_Blade]

We set out our stall not to get beaten by more than 1 or 2 goals last night and succeeded in doing that (thanks to Ramsdale).

I know it's a well worn phrase but we really do need some pace in forward positions in the team every single game. The 'sludge runners' comment on Tufty Club is 100% spot on.

 

[EddieColquhoun]

Clutching at straws there buddy.

How many league games have any of those started for us?

And Brooks should really have an asterisk by his name...

It's an old argument with Brooks. He'd been in our academy 3 years before he made his league debut. He is one of our youth players that came through.
Anyway, sorry for side-tracking your thread. I agree with your other points.

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

When young I think I was a good athlete, but did that help my club when my talent was limited ? No !

But the point is, last year what we lacked in technical ability we made up for with energy and intensity.

This year we've dropped off massively in those areas which has exposed our significant technical deficiencies.

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

We set out our stall not to get beaten by more than 1 or 2 goals last night and succeeded in doing that (thanks to Ramsdale).

I know it's a well worn phrase but we really do need some pace in forward positions in the team every single game. The 'sludge runners' comment on Tufty Club is 100% spot on.

Mate, we need pace all over the pitch!! Have you not seen the new breed of central midfielders in the PL. Built like decathletes, they cover every blade of grass at high intensity for the full 90mins...

 

[Houston_Blade]

Mate, we need pace all over the pitch!! Have you not seen the new breed of central midfielders in the PL. Built like decathletes, they cover every blade of grass at high intensity for the full 90mins...

Sorry I wasn't clear, I class midfield as a 'forward position'. The sludge runners in midfield alongside John 'I can't be arsed anymore' Lundstram are woeful physically.

The only place we have pace is wing back, George is good (and Bogle) but Enda is a waste of space at the minute as he's lost the ability to control a football.

 

[Iceybabey]

It was hard watching the Liverpool players just ghosting past Norwood or just shrugging off his challenges like he's an 11 year old girl. I know people want him to do a job in the Championship but I think we need to move on. I'd keep him as a squad player for next season, but we need athleticism and pace coming through the door. I think Coulibaly will come to us next season but we need a few more.

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

Sorry I wasn't clear, I class midfield as a 'forward position'. The sludge runners in midfield alongside John 'I can't be arsed anymore' Lundstram are woeful physically.

The only place we have pace is wing back, George is good (and Bogle) but Enda is a waste of space at the minute as he's lost the ability to control a football.

Abso-fucking-lutely!

Sods law is that our two best players this season both play the same position, and that position is RB!!!

Lundstram is the microcosm for me (scapegoat for others!!)

He was flying early last season after a Summer with Lance Armstrong/Rapha Nadal's 'diet' and we too were flying. This year he's back to Irn Bru and gingsters after a game and that's reflected all over the pitch...

 

[The Crab]

At the risk of getting lost in the maelstrom of Lundtram/McBurnie hating posts, one thing stood out tonight...

How leggy and slow we looked. Plus I can't think of one player (maybe Baldock) who you'd look at and say he's an elite level athlete. From a slow front two, to a midfield three that aren't mobile and seem to be outmuscled in every challenge, to a back 3 that look like bambi on ice...

if we're to be critical of Tufty and his coaching this past year, it's that a) we havent bought in better athletes and b) the athletic development of those here has been poor at best/pathetic at worst.

When Tufty talks about poor in both boxes - well that's because our players in both boxes look slow, old and confused.

Case in point - Burke came on and the runs he made stretched the play and opened lanes for Fleck to exploit...

It was never going to end well making Moose the new club dietician................