Kop needs urgent redevelopment

[CarlMcBlade]

Not enough to make an annual profit. It may have sold out once a week but bearing in mind prices were discounted quite often.

One method of valuing a hotel is based on occupancy. The Copthornes value was written down each year.

What do you suggest, leave it to rot?

 

[Sean Thornton]

A bit of profit and that'd does not include the extra shirt sales shop incomes bar sales corporate

A bit of profit depends on selling 15k all the time - which would mean being in the PL - and at £30 would be walk ups unless ST prices were increased.

Where’s the corporate on the Kop?

 

[Sean Thornton]

What do you suggest, leave it to rot?

Oh dear

Maintain to prevent that happening obviously. But let’s act daft eh?

 

[Working Class Hero]

A bit of profit depends on selling 15k all the time - which would mean being in the PL - and at £30 would be walk ups unless ST prices were increased.

Where’s the corporate on the Kop?

That's another reason to not build a new stand. We probably would end up with corporate on the kop.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

A bit of profit and that'd does not include the extra shirt sales shop incomes bar sales corporate

If you're getting that desperate for scraps your argument is lost. Just accept there isn't any real financial benefit for us to complete a significant capacity upgrade, certainly in the short to medium term, let's say 10 years.
It would be nice, but it's a vanity project that we need someone to be happy to lose a significant amount of money over in order to deliver it for us.

We then come back to the sensible approach which is wait in the short term until we know if we can establish ourselves in the PL and have the money to invest in appropriate and gradual improvements or to get an Owner who's happy to foot the bill.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

That's another reason to not build a new stand. We probably would end up with corporate on the kop.

Another reason to start with the South Stand, and do the corporate in the hope that it helps subsidise the Kop eventually.

 

[jt64]

If you're getting that desperate for scraps your argument is lost. Just accept there isn't any real financial benefit for us to complete a significant capacity upgrade, certainly in the short to medium term, let's say 10 years.

I don't think anyone is arguing that there would be a short term ROI?

 

[YES Blade]

How was the Brentford stadium funded?
The enabling development to fund the stadium includes a residential led development comprising over 900 apartments surrounding the stadium together with the conversion of the existing ground to family housing.


Spurs are a well established Pl club, had £150m of cash to put in and could virtually guarantee 60k per home game as they had a waiting list of over 20k for season tickets. A supermarket, shops and bars are included.

Neither are reasonable comparisons.

In other words, there are many ways to fund a stadium. Other clubs find a way, there is no reason United can’t find a way.

 

[blade too long]

A bit of profit depends on selling 15k all the time - which would mean being in the PL - and at £30 would be walk ups unless ST prices were increased.
To any new stand villa put in money making ventures under the hole we need similar vision
Where’s the corporate on the Kop?

Built in

A bit of profit depends on selling 15k all the time - which would mean being in the PL - and at £30 would be walk ups unless ST prices were increased.

Where’s the corporate on the Kop?

thats up to the clus architect and have things like under the Holte end at villa

 

[YES Blade]

If you are happy for the club to carry that level of debt, and are confident we'll be a prem club for the next 20 odd years to service that debt.

Why not? I’ve got a mortgage, a good percentage of our fans will also have a mortgage.

Debt isn’t a bad thing if it’s used correctly.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

I don't think anyone is arguing that there would be a short term ROI?

Short would make sense. I think it’s pretty clear the extra 15k that BTL is talking about is a little longer than short or even medium term.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Why not? I’ve got a mortgage, a good percentage of our fans will also have a mortgage.

Debt isn’t a bad thing if it’s used correctly.

Taking on additional debt is not particularly sensible with interest levels at a near 20 year high though and if you were struggling to pay your bills last year id not advise someone to be buying a bigger house at the moment.
Couple that with the other fact that our income levels aren’t consistent and are impossible to hope to predict for the next few seasons at least it’s hardly an encouraging picture at the moment.

Yes there are ways they other clubs find which are basically magic money trees or rich owners happy to fund them. As we have neither they’re not really appropriate to our current position are they?

 

[Sean Thornton]

In other words, there are many ways to fund a stadium. Other clubs find a way, there is no reason United can’t find a way.

In other words you don’t really have much of a clue. The two clubs mentioned were your choices remember The reasoning behind their decisions are shown. What do you propose? What other ways do you see for us?

 

[Sean Thornton]

Built in

thats up to the clus architect and have things like under the Holte end at villa

So 15k new seats, corporate built in underneath. What’s the cost for that “bit of profit” you’ve calculated.

 

[YES Blade]

In other words you don’t really have much of a clue. The two clubs mentioned were your choices remember The reasoning behind their decisions are shown. What do you propose? What other ways do you see for us?

Do some sort of feasibility study and put a plan in place that is best for the long term future of the club.

I just want the club to avoid making the same mistakes again. Going for the cheap option or build stands without any consideration for the future development of the rest of the ground.

 

[Greasy Chap Butty]

Why not? I’ve got a mortgage, a good percentage of our fans will also have a mortgage.

Debt isn’t a bad thing if it’s used correctly.

Good example. If you get made long term unemployed you can sell the house.
If we get relegated we can sell the ground.
Brilliant.

 

[YES Blade]

Taking on additional debt is not particularly sensible with interest levels at a near 20 year high though and if you were struggling to pay your bills last year id not advise someone to be buying a bigger house at the moment.
Couple that with the other fact that our income levels aren’t consistent and are impossible to hope to predict for the next few seasons at least it’s hardly an encouraging picture at the moment.

Yes there are ways they other clubs find which are basically magic money trees or rich owners happy to fund them. As we have neither they’re not really appropriate to our current position are they?

I’ve never said we should do anything now, we should do what’s best for the club when the time is right.

My desire is for United to have the best stadium possible, if that takes 10 years, then so be it. I’m certainly not stamping my feet and demanding it happens now.

 

[Greasy Chap Butty]

Another reason to start with the South Stand, and do the corporate in the hope that it helps subsidise the Kop eventually.

That assumes it results in increased revenue, and a profit. Big assumption, and a high risk one.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

That assumes it results in increased revenue, and a profit. Big assumption, and a high risk one.

As assumptions go in this thread I thought it infinitesimal in comparison?

 

[HD8 Blades]

Reopen this thread after we’re an established PL side and need a 35k stadium

**see Darlington’s fantastic stadium - The cost of which caused the club to go into administration three times

 

[blade too long]

A bit of profit depends on selling 15k all the time - which would mean being in the PL - and at £30 would be walk ups unless ST prices were increased.
To any new stand villa put in money making ventures under the hole we need similar vision
Where’s the corporate on the Kop?

Built in to the plans if we are clever

 

[Sean Thornton]

Built in to the plans if we are clever

There’s a tap in……..

 

[247Blade]

What do you suggest, leave it to rot?

Knock it down its not fit for purpose!

 

[metalblade]

Reopen this thread after we’re an established PL side and need a 35k stadium

**see Darlington’s fantastic stadium - The cost of which caused the club to go into administration three times

I think we have already reached the need of a 35k capacity. What is needed is a long term plan for the whole stadium to bring it up to present day UEFA standards which means a slightly longer pitch (105 yds) which in turn means moving the kop back around 5 yds in other word a total rebuild. We don't have any spare cash stuffed down the sofa but it could be done in stages by building behind the kop and putting a new roof over the lot without four big poles to hold it up. what you can do then is build to a modern standard section by section without having to close the kop for a season or two. The ultimate aim must be for a ground capable of holding games like we did for the women's Euro's and a large enough capacity to hold early rounds of a Euro/world cup tournament. We need a 50 year plan or we are throwing money down the drain that or you resign the club to moving to a new stadium in the future it is not sustainable to do nothing year after year. I don't think anyone is saying do it all tomorrow but McCabe's way of tagging on bits to the stadium here and there have left us where we are now which is really not up to today's standards

 

[blade too long]

There’s a tap in……..

Good start. Can make a coffee

 

[Sean Thornton]

Good start. Can make a coffee

Assume someone is there to plug the kettle in and deal with the boiling water?

 

[Nightsweats]

Assume someone is there to plug the kettle in and deal with the boiling water?

And pay for the leccy.

 

[Isar]

Reopen this thread after we’re an established PL side and need a 35k stadium

**see Darlington’s fantastic stadium - The cost of which caused the club to go into administration three times

Yep, spot on. Let's not get a bigger stadium we may go bankrupt.
In fact let's not have any ambition it will kill the club.

 

[Bladeloyal]

All I'd say is get above 35k capacity and the midweek have no comeback ever ,,,finished

 

[HD8 Blades]

Yep, spot on. Let's not get a bigger stadium we may go bankrupt.
In fact let's not have any ambition it will kill the club.

Not a lack of ambition. If we’re relegated we‘ll have paid for 5k empty seats. That’s money we can’t invest to bounce back. I can think of a club not too far away with a 35k capacity that have no money for decent players.