Just can't get enthused

[Grey Blade]

For my part, I'm prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt and believe - because I think he really does care about the club - that he'd got to a place where the stress was affecting him (and/or his family) to the extent that he just couldn't carry on, at that time.

I'm of the same opinion. I thought he appeared to be mentally shot when he left and as it appeared staying up was a lost cause, he should have been given leave of absence to get himself sorted out - prior to returning recharged for the Championship. Of course that would never happen in the macho world of football because it would be seen as a sign of weakness.

Having said that I don't think he should have come back to replace Hecky - mainly because I don't believe you should ever go back as things will never be the same again.

I didn't agree with him being sacked at the end of last season but equally, I don't think it was wise to come back after Selles was sacked.

Where we go from here I don't know!

 

[Dkc]

Just reading through this thread and unfortunately it seems like another forum to bash our manager. Let's just recap the facts.

After CW was sacked we sold Moore, Anel, Vini Souza, JLT and RND, and lost loanees BBD, Choudrey, Holding Clarke and Rak Saiki.

We brought in Soumare, Ings, McGuinness, Chong, Mee, Tanganga, Godfrey, Matos, Barry, Binden and Riedewald. We opted against McBurnie.

We then lost six games in a row, the final one by five goals, and sacked Selles when bottom of the league. Then we got Wilder back, to work with almost a full team that weren't his signings.

Everyone was demoralised when he took over, and we knew it was a massive job. Some of the players signed during the summer weren't good enough but we must work with what we have.

Wilder has taken ten points from his first ten games, and now we sit third-bottom of the league, three points from safety. We need to limp along until January, hopefully picking up points along the way.

To suggest that this shambles is down to Wilder is really a stretch. He's doing his best with a team he largely inherited, and we're seeing progress. Yes, it's disappointing that we haven't won every game and aren't challenging for the play offs, but the fact is that this team isn't good enough, whatever formation we play.

 

[UTB Blade]

I'm of the same opinion. I thought he appeared to be mentally shot when he left and as it appeared staying up was a lost cause, he should have been given leave of absence to get himself sorted out - prior to returning recharged for the Championship. Of course that would never happen in the macho world of football because it would be seen as a sign of weakness.

Having said that I don't think he should have come back to replace Hecky - mainly because I don't believe you should ever go back as things will never be the same again.

I didn't agree with him being sacked at the end of last season but equally, I don't think it was wise to come back after Selles was sacked.

Where we go from here I don't know!

Regarding the leave of absence to sort himself out:

It's funny you should say that, Grey Blade, because this is a belief I've long held, and was something I said repeatedly at the time.

As you say, I think he'd burned himself out and was in no state to continue managing us. I don't think it would have done either him or the club any good for him to carry on at that time, but why on earth they couldn't have given him leave to enable him to get the break and/or help he needed, I don't know. In other jobs - less public-facing and, as you say, less macho - I think that's probably what would have happened. But football's a different world, in a lot of ways, so maybe that's why it didn't happen.

It's funny (not funny haha) because there's a mental health thread on here where everyone says different versions of: "Don't worry, mate, it's not a sign of weakness having mental health problems. You just get the help you need, nobody will judge you. We're all here for you." But when the club's manager, ex-player, and lifelong Blade - who'd achieved so much for us - was showing signs of his mental health suffering as a result of the job (and, probably, the ongoing pandemic situation), people said - and still say: "Pfft! Crept out the back door - fuck him!" It seems the macho world of football makes allowances for fans having mental health issues, but not managers!

 

[Bladesman101]

You have to ask yourself why you follow United. I follow United as it ensures I see friends and family every other week for definite. When my lad grows up and starts his own life I hope that he’ll want to see me every other week just me and him watching United. My interest is not nil, but it’s low, but that’s the life of a proper football fan. We’ve had great highs recently and now we’re on a bit of a lull.

I stand by the theory that no club was more demoralised by Covid than ours. The context of our situation through Covid was crushing and having 2 embarrassment seasons in the prem doesn’t help.

 

[Ned the Donkey]

Just reading through this thread and unfortunately it seems like another forum to bash our manager. Let's just recap the facts.

After CW was sacked we sold Moore, Anel, Vini Souza, JLT and RND, and lost loanees BBD, Choudrey, Holding Clarke and Rak Saiki.

We brought in Soumare, Ings, McGuinness, Chong, Mee, Tanganga, Godfrey, Matos, Barry, Binden and Riedewald. We opted against McBurnie.

We then lost six games in a row, the final one by five goals, and sacked Selles when bottom of the league. Then we got Wilder back, to work with almost a full team that weren't his signings.

Everyone was demoralised when he took over, and we knew it was a massive job. Some of the players signed during the summer weren't good enough but we must work with what we have.

Wilder has taken ten points from his first ten games, and now we sit third-bottom of the league, three points from safety. We need to limp along until January, hopefully picking up points along the way.

To suggest that this shambles is down to Wilder is really a stretch. He's doing his best with a team he largely inherited, and we're seeing progress. Yes, it's disappointing that we haven't won every game and aren't challenging for the play offs, but the fact is that this team isn't good enough, whatever formation we play.

Thank fuck someone said this.

Wilder's worked a modern fucking miracle, akin to feeding the 5000.

 

[100% part time blade]

I disagree about one thing, which is that watching Illiman Ndiaye in a Blades shirt made a difference to my enjoyment of the seasons under Hecky. It wasn’t incredible football - we seemed to have far too many injuries - and we weren’t underdogs (which somehow makes things less exciting), but Ndiaye was a fantastic United player that I loved watching.

 

[coaxingstar71]

I have to admit that I've been less enthused this season. I'm a ST holder and I'm recovering from ankle surgery at the moment, however I could have gone to the last two games if I'd really wanted. It just seemed it would be a major hassle when we're not playing well. I did get to see the games via streams however. I'll go again when I'm more mobile.

I actually enjoyed last season and thought we were unlucky in the end. I also thought it was quite an achievement to turn the mentality round after the train wreck season the season before in the Prem. We also brought through a number of promising young players which I thought was fantastic for the club. If Arblaster hadn't got that long term injury, we may have done even better but we also saw break out seasons for Seriki, Brooks and Peck. We made some good signings and the only black mark for me was Cannon when we really needed a CB to replace Souttar, who again, suffered a season ending injury.

For me, after this rebuild too, it was a huge mistake to replace Wilder in the summer when he was clearly starting to build another good side. That was completely ruined and we appointed someone who was completely clueless. That decision could set the club back 10 years, especially if we get relegated.

 

[Bladesman]

You have to ask yourself why you follow United. I follow United as it ensures I see friends and family every other week for definite. When my lad grows up and starts his own life I hope that he’ll want to see me every other week just me and him watching United. My interest is not nil, but it’s low, but that’s the life of a proper football fan. We’ve had great highs recently and now we’re on a bit of a lull.

I stand by the theory that no club was more demoralised by Covid than ours. The context of our situation through Covid was crushing and having 2 embarrassment seasons in the prem doesn’t help.

I follow United because I am a masochist and I have nothing better to do on a Saturday afternoon.

 

[gordoncharles]

The one thing that Wilder's successful teams have always had in common (with us, Northampton, etc), is that the sum is so much greater than the total of its parts. So you have to ask yourself why does this happen? How does he manage it?

The answer to that, I think, is engendering a team spirit, so together, so robust, so committed, so 'on fire', that it makes his teams hard to beat. Note that the fans, and the club as a whole, are all part of that team spirit, as well as the players and coaches.

The circumstances football was played in, when it restarted during the pandemic, killed all that. Not only were fans not present, but the players and coaches weren't even training together.

If I were to accept that, and to some degree I would, then I would ask you why that has never been re-created since - anywhere, not just here?

I'm sorry to say that, in common with 95% of managers he is not particularly adaptable. He somehow hit upon a winning and entertaining formula. Good opponents then torpedoed it - quite quickly as it turned out. Unfortunately, at its zenith he believed the hype. To paraphrase Tony Montana he got high on his own supply.

He's done well to have such longevity in the game, not many survive in coaching this long and you have to at least get results to do that. This season is about salvaging the wreckage, which I remain confident about, but he's turned into Mick McCarthy.

 

[ThatJa]

To be honest, I feel kind of the same way and its all since the Play Off final. It felt such a "cheated" loss as in my head I know the result is a win if that VAR decision didn't happen.

Then we follow up with this relegation battle and half of me thinks to myself, I should offer the Blades first team a friendly against my U7s to give them a feeling of what its like to win a game of footy by loads of goals.

But in actual fact, I worry that my U7s would beat them......

 

[utd4ever]

I miss Anel, Egan, Stevens,Baldock
I miss Ndyie
I miss Sharp
I miss Fleck n Norwood
I miss Basham

 

[UTB Blade]

If I were to accept that, and to some degree I would, then I would ask you why that has never been re-created since - anywhere, not just here?

I'm sorry to say that, in common with 95% of managers he is not particularly adaptable. He somehow hit upon a winning and entertaining formula. Good opponents then torpedoed it - quite quickly as it turned out. Unfortunately, at its zenith he believed the hype. To paraphrase Tony Montana he got high on his own supply.

He's done well to have such longevity in the game, not many survive in coaching this long and you have to at least get results to do that. This season is about salvaging the wreckage, which I remain confident about, but he's turned into Mick McCarthy.

I don't know why it's never been re-created anywhere since, but if I were to have an educated guess, there are a few factors I think are responsible for it, some of which you've touched on:

I agree with you that he probably isn't all that adaptable, and that he has that in common with most managers. I also agree that he's done well to have such longevity in the game, and that not many survive in coaching this long.
(I would suggest, at this point, that it might be better for him to move to a DOF role, as many managers do at his age / stage of career, but I don't want to suggest it, because I think that suggestion would be met with hoots of derision from large sections of this forum, who would gleefully impart to me, that his personality/character/mindset/skill set would make him totally unsuited to that role!)

The other factor(s) which I think might be responsible for not re-creating the success he had earlier in his career, are probably either pandemic related - both the world and football have changed a huge amount since the pandemic, so that a manager like CW probably finds it difficult to operate as effectively in this changed reality; and then there's the possibility that he was personally severely affected by some aspects of the pandemic, as many people were and continue to be. Obviously the pandemic had a greater impact on some than others, depending on what happened to individuals and their loved ones, and how that's affected their lives going forward, and, as I said in another post, the apparent state of CW's mental health and wellbeing prior to his leaving in 2021, possibly hints that might be the case with him, although I'm just surmising.

And the other factor is simply his age. I think any managers whose successful teams are 'greater than the sum of their parts', 'team spirit' 'die for 3 points' teams, burn out much sooner than managers of teams with highly talented individual players, because the 'die for 3 points' way of managing, demands much higher energy than the calmer, more considered, 'managing individual talents, tactics and coaching techniques' type of management. To be clear , I'm not suggesting that 'die for 3 points' managers don't engage in tactics and coaching techniques - I'm sure they do, but they've got the added, high octane, 'die for 3 points' aspect to deal with as well, which probably leads to burnout at a younger age.
(And, yes, I'm aware of the irony of me quoting Warnock's "die for 3 points" to describe a high octane style of management, that leads to earlier burnout, when I know full well Warnock himself carried on managing far longer than most managers - well into his 70s, I think. But I think Warnock's an anomaly in this, as he is in a lot of things - he's very much the exception, rather than the rule.)

But as I say, that's just a best guess on my part, as to why it's not been re-created anywhere, since. Let's hope he proves everyone wrong, and suddenly re-creates it with us for the rest of this season and the next, and we go on an amazing run, win the play offs, then spank the Premier League's ass next season, and end up in Europe! I can dream!

 

[Blade In Flame]

I miss Anel, Egan, Stevens,Baldock
I miss Ndyie
I miss Sharp
I miss Fleck n Norwood
I miss Basham

If you miss them that much, start watching Chesterfield (Fleck) and Doncaster (Sharp) and if either of them play Stockport (Norwood) - winner, winner, chicken dinner!

 

[Zero dark thirty]

I don't know why it's never been re-created anywhere since, but if I were to have an educated guess, there are a few factors I think are responsible for it, some of which you've touched on:

I agree with you that he probably isn't all that adaptable, and that he has that in common with most managers. I also agree that he's done well to have such longevity in the game, and that not many survive in coaching this long.
(I would suggest, at this point, that it might be better for him to move to a DOF role, as many managers do at his age / stage of career, but I don't want to suggest it, because I think that suggestion would be met with hoots of derision from large sections of this forum, who would gleefully impart to me, that his personality/character/mindset/skill set would make him totally unsuited to that role!)

The other factor(s) which I think might be responsible for not re-creating the success he had earlier in his career, are probably either pandemic related - both the world and football have changed a huge amount since the pandemic, so that a manager like CW probably finds it difficult to operate as effectively in this changed reality; and then there's the possibility that he was personally severely affected by some aspects of the pandemic, as many people were and continue to be. Obviously the pandemic had a greater impact on some than others, depending on what happened to individuals and their loved ones, and how that's affected their lives going forward, and, as I said in another post, the apparent state of CW's mental health and wellbeing prior to his leaving in 2021, possibly hints that might be the case with him, although I'm just surmising.

And the other factor is simply his age. I think any managers whose successful teams are 'greater than the sum of their parts', 'team spirit' 'die for 3 points' teams, burn out much sooner than managers of teams with highly talented individual players, because the 'die for 3 points' way of managing, demands much higher energy than the calmer, more considered, 'managing individual talents, tactics and coaching techniques' type of management. To be clear , I'm not suggesting that 'die for 3 points' managers don't engage in tactics and coaching techniques - I'm sure they do, but they've got the added, high octane, 'die for 3 points' aspect to deal with as well, which probably leads to burnout at a younger age.
(And, yes, I'm aware of the irony of me quoting Warnock's "die for 3 points" to describe a high octane style of management, that leads to earlier burnout, when I know full well Warnock himself carried on managing far longer than most managers - well into his 70s, I think. But I think Warnock's an anomaly in this, as he is in a lot of things - he's very much the exception, rather than the rule.)

But as I say, that's just a best guess on my part, as to why it's not been re-created anywhere, since. Let's hope he proves everyone wrong, and suddenly re-creates it with us for the rest of this season and the next, and we go on an amazing run, win the play offs, then spank the Premier League's ass next season, and end up in Europe! I can dream!

I'll have certainly what you been smoking

 

[CarlMcBlade]

I’ve been in a sexless marriage with SUFC for over 50 years now. Yeah, we’ve had a few rolls in the hay and some serious heavy petting. But amazingly the love is still there and even though they now wear curlers and a face pack in bed, I still look forward to my fortnightly promise…

 

[CrookesBlade]

If I were to accept that, and to some degree I would, then I would ask you why that has never been re-created since - anywhere, not just here?

I'm sorry to say that, in common with 95% of managers he is not particularly adaptable. He somehow hit upon a winning and entertaining formula. Good opponents then torpedoed it - quite quickly as it turned out. Unfortunately, at its zenith he believed the hype. To paraphrase Tony Montana he got high on his own supply.

He's done well to have such longevity in the game, not many survive in coaching this long and you have to at least get results to do that. This season is about salvaging the wreckage, which I remain confident about, but he's turned into Mick McCarthy.

I’ve been saying this. All managers have a shelf life. Eventually they drop down the leagues, struggle to get work anymore and pack it in.

A very select few manage to go out on top. He’s had 25 years or so of management which is many more than most ex pros who try their hand at it

I don’t think it’s denigrates him or his achievements to suggest that whatever worked for him in the past perhaps doesn’t work any more.

 

[Paisley Blade]

I was at Fratton Park April 2013. Pompey had been in the doldrums for ages but news that their takeover had completed broke the day before the game. The place was electric and they steam rollered us 3-0. Johnny Ertl played like Iniesta ( for them) and our then bunch of weaklings neshed it and folded.

Although they won’t be taken over by then, I see that the soft deadline for announcement of a (potentially high profile)preferred bidder is scheduled for Nov 21, 2 days before the game.

You can see where I’m going with this…

 

[KMC-1889]

50 for me till the move now that idiots running NY we are off to Vietnam

So because a socialist won an election you’re going to move to an actual one party communist state?

S2 never fails to deliver

 

[raul]

I was at Fratton Park April 2013. Pompey had been in the doldrums for ages but news that their takeover had completed broke the day before the game. The place was electric and they steam rollered us 3-0. Johnny Ertl played like Iniesta ( for them) and our then bunch of weaklings neshed it and folded.

Although they won’t be taken over by then, I see that the soft deadline for announcement of a (potentially high profile)preferred bidder is scheduled for Nov 21, 2 days before the game.

You can see where I’m going with this…

Anyone else there that day?

 

[Paisley Blade]

Anyone else there that day?

My Mrs. It was my birthday ‘treat’.

Yourself?

 

[Dkc]

I’ve been saying this. All managers have a shelf life. Eventually they drop down the leagues, struggle to get work anymore and pack it in.

A very select few manage to go out on top. He’s had 25 years or so of management which is many more than most ex pros who try their hand at it

I don’t think it’s denigrates him or his achievements to suggest that whatever worked for him in the past perhaps doesn’t work any more.

It was still working last season.

 

[Aganarama]

Anyone else there that day?

Yup. Horror show.

 

[DaveBassettsgoneonholiday]

Thought this was new chant idea to the tune of Depeche Mode's biggest hit when I read the thread title.
I reckon it's a goer, especially since it was the tune of Anel's chant, quite symbolic of what we had vs what we've got.

When I watch the Bladesmen
I'm bored out my mind...

My immediate thoughts too......

"United's home so maybe
I'll get out of me bed
But I just can't get enthused
This squad has been misused

Even though we've got Ben Mee
McGuinness will lose his head
And I just can't get enthused
They all look so confused

We've sold Ndiaye and there's no Ndlovu
And I just can't seem to get enthused with ....... "

 

[CrookesBlade]

It was still working last season.

To an extent, I’d argue it’s a situation of ever diminishing returns.