Just a random Wilder/ownership thought......

[Snowman]

Was all this uncertainty triggered by CW? January Transfer Window passes. Fairly underwhelming. Suddenly, out of nowhere option clause triggered by someone and then apparently litigation. Any money on CW having said he's had enough with having to buy a man bun and rent a show pony and that he's offski unless he gets some spondoolicks? Cue war between he who would wish to fund and keep CW and he who has a different vision? Any reasons why this may not be the case?

 

[raul]

I'd flip it on its head. All the shit started end of last season as The Deity and The Prince got excited following promotion . CW has been holding it all together since having been told it'll all be resolved "soon" and has had enough of being pissed about.

No idea if it's the case or not, but at least as credible as the OP.

 

[snootyfenooty]

Was all this uncertainty triggered by CW? January Transfer Window passes. Fairly underwhelming. Suddenly, out of nowhere option clause triggered by someone and then apparently litigation. Any money on CW having said he's had enough with having to buy a man bun and rent a show pony and that he's offski unless he gets some spondoolicks? Cue war between he who would wish to fund and keep CW and he who has a different vision? Any reasons why this may not be the case?

Your point could have some validity if it wasn't for the fact two of the players were on his shopping list the previous summer. That they turned out to be a waste of money didn't reflect too well on Wilder's judgement and it may be he who's trying to deflect the blame back to the owners.

 

[JohnDenver]

I'd flip it on its head. All the shit started end of last season as The Deity and The Prince got excited following promotion . CW has been holding it all together since having been told it'll all be resolved "soon" and has had enough of being pissed about.

No idea if it's the case or not, but at least as credible as the OP.

That’s far more likely. The Prince hasn’t followed through on his words about Championship investment (whether that’s with good reason or not). And this summer is a now a cross roads.

It’s about how the club is run as well as how much ambition we have. If the Prince wins the battle, Wilder could be out anyway. So why not take a big pay day at another club?

Wilder isn’t in a good position and the board have put him there.

 

[JohnDenver]

Your point could have some validity if it wasn't for the fact two of the players were on his shopping list the previous summer. That they turned out to be a waste of money didn't reflect too well on Wilder's judgement and it may be he who's trying to deflect the blame back to the owners.

How easy is it to sustain a Championship promotion push by buying League 1 players? We need to be realistic about what January could achieve given the budget.

Previous managers have wasted multiples of what Wilder spends and got us relegated.

 

[Deleted member 875]

I'd flip it on its head. All the shit started end of last season as The Deity and The Prince got excited following promotion . CW has been holding it all together since having been told it'll all be resolved "soon" and has had enough of being pissed about.

No idea if it's the case or not, but at least as credible as the OP.

I’m bored of all this boardroom arguing, speculation and subjective, but what do I know is the best chance we have to push on and become successful has been left in tatters.

 

[snootyfenooty]

How easy is it to sustain a Championship promotion push by buying League 1 players? We need to be realistic about what January could achieve given the budget.

Previous managers have wasted multiples of what Wilder spends and got us relegated.

The last managers to get us relegated were Bassett, Warnock and Adams and they got fuck all to spend.

 

[JohnDenver]

The last managers to get us relegated were Bassett, Warnock and Adams and they got fuck all to spend.

Ah, I take the last relegation season as a collective effort of three managers.

We spent quite a lot on going down that year!

 

[Dkc]

Ah, I take the last relegation season as a collective effort of three managers.

We spent quite a lot on going down that year!

Micky Adams' stock was high when he came here, certainly as high as Wilder's before CW joined us, but Adams' career never really recovered after we got relegated. He went back to managing smaller clubs with moderate success and the last I heard he was working as a football consultant somewhere. Not saying we got relegated solely due to lack of funds, but Adams was definitely hampered by inheriting Gary Speed's under-performing squad and not being given much to spend in the JTW.

CW may see this as potentially his only chance to earn big money. Next season with no cash could be a big slog that will reduce his value as a manager

 

[snootyfenooty]

Ah, I take the last relegation season as a collective effort of three managers.

We spent quite a lot on going down that year!

In the time I've been following United we've spent fuck all. Any outgoings have always been funded by a much larger inflow with the possible exception of the Robson season. Even though he was a waste of space, he wasn't responsible for us being relegated. If anyone is suddenly expecting us to splash the cash after 128 years of tight-fistedness they are living in a dream world.

The season you refer to we spent fuck all but did receive £2m+ for Sharp and Kenny.

 

[Hamburg Blade]

I don't think so. People have been bemused by this 50/50 thing since the Prince joined. It seems to have been a reason for not investing rather than a motivation for the owners to pump money in. Nevertheless I'm sure it was very useful for McCabe to halve the costs whilst we were languishing in League 1 and ultimately we got promotion under it.
I think it was a nice idea but just won't work going forwards. Perhaps it would work with two flush owners wanting to spend.
Therefore I think this current ownership wrangle was inevitable. Especially now. The Championship amplifies the problem. Bearing that in mind, I think McCabe's timing is fairly good. When would have been better?
Ownership issues can happen at any club at any time. I don't understand why everyone sees it as 100% negative. There's a chance that we have a much clearer ownership situation and direction when it's done. We will at least be rid of the 50/50 split that doesn't seem to be working anymore.

 

[JohnDenver]

In the time I've been following United we've spent fuck all. Any outgoings have always been funded by a much larger inflow with the possible exception of the Robson season. Even though he was a waste of space, he wasn't responsible for us being relegated. If anyone is suddenly expecting us to splash the cash after 128 years of tight-fistedness they are living in a dream world.

The season you refer to we spent fuck all but did receive £2m+ for Sharp and Kenny.

Fee wise, yup. But I recall our wages were still very high. Britton, Henderson, Simo, Nosworthy. All massively underperformed compared to their generous salaries.

We weren’t relegated through underinvestment, but sheer incompetence.

 

[JohnDenver]

I don't think so. People have been bemused by this 50/50 thing since the Prince joined. It seems to have been a reason for not investing rather than a motivation for the owners to pump money in. Nevertheless I'm sure it was very useful for McCabe to halve the costs whilst we were languishing in League 1 and ultimately we got promotion under it.
I think it was a nice idea but just won't work going forwards. Perhaps it would work with two flush owners wanting to spend.
Therefore I think this current ownership wrangle was inevitable. Especially now. The Championship amplifies the problem. Bearing that in mind, I think McCabe's timing is fairly good. When would have been better?
Ownership issues can happen at any club at any time. I don't understand why everyone sees it as 100% negative. There's a chance that we have a much clearer ownership situation and direction when it's done. We will at least be rid of the 50/50 split that doesn't seem to be working anymore.

The negative is the timing and paralysis it’s caused. Resolving the 50/50 split could be very beneficial depending on the future model.

 

[snootyfenooty]

Fee wise, yup. But I recall our wages were still very high. Britton, Henderson, Simo, Nosworthy. All massively underperformed compared to their generous salaries.

We weren’t relegated through underinvestment, but sheer incompetence.

Which corresponds to my post above which kicked this discussion off. We wasted what funds were available to us both then and in the recent JTW. Incompetence describes the signings of Holmes and Leonard as Wilder knew all he needed to know about them. Granted, the Wilson loan does fit into the Britton et al scenario.

 

[Hamburg Blade]

The negative is the timing and paralysis it’s caused. Resolving the 50/50 split could be very beneficial depending on the future model.

Yes, but I can't think of a better time (accepting that there may be "no good time"). There isn't actually (yet) any paralysis.
Whilst we were in with a realistic chance of the playoffs - far worse; whilst we were riding high pre-Jan - could've been blamed for unsettling us; leaving it later - could drag too long into the closed season where Wilder really does need concrete backing. Do you have a suggestion?

 

[JohnDenver]

Which corresponds to my post above which kicked this discussion off. We wasted what funds were available to us both then and in the recent JTW. Incompetence describes the signings of Holmes and Leonard as Wilder knew all he needed to know about them. Granted, the Wilson loan does fit into the Britton et al scenario.

I think our January signings are incomparable to the experienced and highly paid losers of 2011. It’s 7 years on but these guys will be on a fraction of the money and have a fraction of the pedigree.

Wilson was a failure as a loaner but the others have been at the club for a few months yet you’re writing them off as an incompetent bit of business. Too harsh in my opinion. Let’s see how they develop.

 

[JohnDenver]

Yes, but I can't think of a better time (accepting that there may be "no good time"). There isn't actually (yet) any paralysis.
Whilst we were in with a realistic chance of the playoffs - far worse; whilst we were riding high pre-Jan - could've been blamed for unsettling us; leaving it later - could drag too long into the closed season where Wilder really does need concrete backing. Do you have a suggestion?

My only suggestion is the owners should sort out their differences out of court and provide Wilder with a budget in the meantime.

It’s very much their failure that we’re faced with this nonsense.

 

[snootyfenooty]

Wilson was a failure as a loaner but the others have been at the club for a few months yet you’re writing them off as an incompetent bit of business. Too harsh in my opinion. Let’s see how they develop.

Can't see any upside in Holmes, he's 31. He was bought to give us impetus in the JTW and it didn't work. Leonard, maybe but he's got to be given a run in the team first, not as a bench warmer. We'll see next season, presuming we're still in existence.....

 

[Hamburg Blade]

My only suggestion is the owners should sort out their differences out of court and provide Wilder with a budget in the meantime.

It’s very much their failure that we’re faced with this nonsense.

How? If, as has been suggested, they have different views on the value and/or what should be included, how can that be settled out of court (or a legal process)?

 

[JohnDenver]

How? If, as has been suggested, they have different views on the value and/or what should be included, how can that be settled out of court (or a legal process)?

I realise it’s too late now, but I’d rather they’d compromised or found a modus operandi to agree on whilst the legal process is in motion.

 

[Maidenhead]

Micky Adams' stock was high when he came here, certainly as high as Wilder's before CW joined us, but Adams' career never really recovered after we got relegated. He went back to managing smaller clubs with moderate success and the last I heard he was working as a football consultant somewhere. Not saying we got relegated solely due to lack of funds, but Adams was definitely hampered by inheriting Gary Speed's under-performing squad and not being given much to spend in the JTW.

CW may see this as potentially his only chance to earn big money. Next season with no cash could be a big slog that will reduce his value as a manager

I think that the second half of this season has already reduced his value as a manager.

I have previously said that Sunderland is his only realistic option of a pay rise.

Of those I think Sunderland is the only realistic one.

His biggest achievement is a league 1 title and his team have won 8 of there last 28 I beleive.

Southampton, WBA, Stoke and Boro will not be interested. Their fans would be underwhelmed with the appointment of Wilder and they wouldn't do it.

Huddersfield won't sack their manager even if they are relegated.

Maybe he knows that too and wants to get out whilst the going is good?

 

[Hamburg Blade]

I realise it’s too late now, but I’d rather they’d compromised or found a modus operandi to agree on whilst the legal process is in motion.

It's possible that they will. The end-of-the-world scenarios on this board suggest that the summer is already a disaster, but it hasn't even started yet. McCabe will have hoped to have it sorted by then, but if it isn't, they could come to some interim arrangement.
There shouldn't be an assumption that things will always be the absolute worst, at least until after it's happened.

 

[Jonboy60]

Micky Adams' stock was high when he came here, certainly as high as Wilder's before CW joined us, but Adams' career never really recovered after we got relegated. He went back to managing smaller clubs with moderate success and the last I heard he was working as a football consultant somewhere. Not saying we got relegated solely due to lack of funds, but Adams was definitely hampered by inheriting Gary Speed's under-performing squad and not being given much to spend in the JTW.

CW may see this as potentially his only chance to earn big money. Next season with no cash could be a big slog that will reduce his value as a manager

I think the opposit is true Dkc, most people in football have a good idea what other clubs may or may not have in terms of budgets. It’s no secret that CW has worked wonders this season, based on his budget, and if all the talk is true, he’ll have even less next season, So if CW can keep the blades up next season, I believe he will have done a better job.

 

[Lawrence]

Your point could have some validity if it wasn't for the fact two of the players were on his shopping list the previous summer. That they turned out to be a waste of money didn't reflect too well on Wilder's judgement and it may be he who's trying to deflect the blame back to the owners.

Deflect the blame!? United where 6/7 at the beginning of January and the board had a nose-bleed, they gave CW nothing and just reiterated exactly what Sheffield United are, and always will be... a potential big club with the usual small time mentality. its clear, with what wilder said after the Hull debacle that he got what he was given. (Have another listen to what he said, with passion) If only... 2 players (10 mil) and we would be looking forward to the playoffs now. can anyone see United splashing out in the summer NO, could any forsee our owners investing 30million if we had got into the Prem? NO, Incidentally 30 mil would be peanuts these days for the prem. The board are F**king up my club, and at the moment it’s so toxic. I totally agree with Chris, he is speaking for me, problem is he can walk away, I can’t

 

[Maidenhead]

Deflect the blame!? United where 6/7 at the beginning of January and the board had a nose-bleed, they gave CW nothing and just reiterated exactly what Sheffield United are, and always will be... a potential big club with the usual small time mentality. its clear, with what wilder said after the Hull debacle that he got what he was given. (Have another listen to what he said, with passion) If only... 2 players (10 mil) and we would be looking forward to the playoffs now. can anyone see United splashing out in the summer NO, could any forsee our owners investing 30million if we had got into the Prem? NO, Incidentally 30 mil would be peanuts these days for the prem. The board are F**king up my club, and at the moment it’s so toxic. I totally agree with Chris, he is speaking for me, problem is he can walk away, I can’t

A) They gave him 2 players of his choosing that he had been wanting since pre season.

B) They don't have £10m, never mind £30m to give him.

C) They are not fucking up your club, they are ensuring that it is run in a sensible and sustainable manner within their resources.

Now pick up your toys and get a grip on reality.

 

[super_pig]

random thought?? S2 would make a great location for a large Mosque.. controversial

 

[Lawrence]

A) They gave him 2 players of his choosing that he had been wanting since pre season.

B) They don't have £10m, never mind £30m to give him.

C) They are not fucking up your club, they are ensuring that it is run in a sensible and sustainable manner within their resources.

Now pick up your toys and get a grip on reality.

Ho dear....

A) Do you really think all that CW wanted was 2 League one players to help his push to the playoffs

B) 10 million in the Championship is peanuts. if there resources don’t stretch to the kind of finances needed then, like I said we are too small for CW ambition!

C) If what the owners are doing makes CW leave our club then the board will have F**cked off our best manager for years!

D) To be honest, perhaps I should get a grip on REALITY... the reality is that United can’t afford the ambitions of CW.

E) Sorry I don’t understand the ‘Pick up your toys’ bit?

 

[Maidenhead]

Ho dear....

A) Do you really think all that CW wanted was 2 League one players to help his push to the playoffs

B) 10 million in the Championship is peanuts. if there resources don’t stretch to the kind of finances needed then, like I said we are too small for CW ambition!

C) If what the owners are doing makes CW leave our club then the board will have F**cked off our best manager for years!

D) To be honest, perhaps I should get a grip on REALITY... the reality is that United can’t afford the ambitions of CW.

E) Sorry I don’t understand the ‘Pick up your toys’ bit?

A) It's Wilders job to manage within the budget he is allocated. He knew what that was last summer and to the best of my knowledge it never changed. When I was a manager I would have liked bigger budgets for all sorts of things but I never got them. The 2 January targets were his long term choices.

B) If he believes that we are too small for his ambition then he has an over inflated opinion of his talents.

C) They will have made decisions that do not damage the long term viability of the club if we don't win enough games to get promoted.

D) If all Wilder wants is a route to buy guaranteed success then we can't afford it. He'd be better buggering off to Man City or somewhere. that's the reality of our finances.

E) It appeared that you were having a Wilder type flounce. If I had treated my bosses with the disrespect that Wilder has shown his I would have been very quickly unemployed. He can think what he wants but he's bang out of order going public and he's done himself no favours. If the Prince wins he will be down the road faster than Lewis Hamilton, and deservedly so.