Jordan Chapell

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He's been grassed up for doing that dirty protest in the Boardroom .
 
Give him a run out tomorrow.

Get Harriot back and give him a run too. Cannot be worse than McAllister and probably better than Doyle on current form.

Fook this Micky Mouse trophy, give a few of the fringe players a game. Is Lecs fit yet? What is the point in having Philiskirk and Tonne on the books if they never get a look in? Get em used Danny boy.
 
From what I've been told, Tonne is actually fairly good and would surely get better with a few games like this Paint Pot Trophy under his belt. Like Olle says, can't see the point in havin him on the books if he's never to be used :confused:

Moreover, was talking to a Leyton Orient scout the other week and he actually put in a report for Philiskirk to the O's, so there must be sommat half-decent about him too?

Ah well, what do I know?

UTB!
 
Bradford Blade said:
Moreover, was talking to a Leyton Orient scout the other week and he actually put in a report for Philiskirk to the O's, so there must be sommat half-decent about him too?
Click to expand...

That sort of depends on what the report said. I'm sure at some point we must have scouted him before we decided to bring him in...
 
Wasn't Philiskirk rated quite highly at Chelsea? Obviously not that much, otherwise they would not have let him go, but didn't he show promise in attacking midfield and up top? I noticed he was banging in goals for the reserves last year, but have not followed this year.

Let's face it, the 'development team' has been a massive fucking flop. We have 'nurtured' players that are either not good enough or that Wilson does not rate (McAllister, Philiskirk, Tonne, Conneely etc) and other than Maguire no youngster has broken through. Why renew contracts of players in their mid 20's who cannot even cut it at third tier level? We hear lots of talk about Chappel, Whitehouse, Harriot, McFeazden etc yet none of them seem anywhere near first team action. They are young I suppose, but Wilson really must not rate them when you see how this rabble has been playing for most of the first half of the season. I can see the value in bringing on some of the academy players (some of the young lads mentioned above might make it) but the aforementioned characters will never play higher than the 4th (max third) division.
 
Ollessendro said:
Wasn't Philiskirk rated quite highly at Chelsea? Obviously not that much, otherwise they would not have let him go, but didn't he show promise in attacking midfield and up top? I noticed he was banging in goals for the reserves last year, but have not followed this year.

Let's face it, the 'development team' has been a massive fucking flop. We have 'nurtured' players that are either not good enough or that Wilson does not rate (McAllister, Philiskirk, Tonne, Conneely etc) and other than Maguire no youngster has broken through. Why renew contracts of players in their mid 20's who cannot even cut it at third tier level? We hear lots of talk about Chappel, Whitehouse, Harriot, McFeazden etc yet none of them seem anywhere near first team action. They are young I suppose, but Wilson really must not rate them when you see how this rabble has been playing for most of the first half of the season. I can see the value in bringing on some of the academy players (some of the young lads mentioned above might make it) but the aforementioned characters will never play higher than the 4th (max third) division.
Click to expand...

The major problem with the development squad is that it is coached by Morgan. I believe this is one of the reasons why Pembo left has he felt that this squad should have been within his bailiwick as a natural succession from the academy and as such the development squad is in a state of limbo. I also hear that at the academy the coaching system and methods introduced by Pembo have not continued at the u-18 level and a more direct style of play has been introduced which the players have not been used to and is cited as a major reason for the recent loss to the mighty Rochdale by many of the Academy coaches. Although Cresswell is now officially a coach I'm still waiting reports as to whether he has taken his first coaching session. The academy would seem to have moved from being successfully run by a not very well liked autocrat to a shambles been run my likeable personalities.
 
ghandi said:
The academy would seem to have moved from being successfully run by a not very well liked autocrat to a shambles been run my likeable personalities.
Click to expand...

That's the most depressing post I've read in a long time. The most successful aspect of the club being allowed to slide?

FFS.
 
JohnDenver said:
That's the most depressing post I've read in a long time. The most successful aspect of the club being allowed to slide?

FFS.
Click to expand...

Not sure that its true though... from what I understand.

I heard that the kids in each group are at the younger age as we are moving up the older players to the Development squad/ U21's... So...
U21's is made up of the older lads plus the better U18's players
U18's is made up of the upper end of the U16's
And so on... so I don't think results can be judged the same as they were in the Cup Final year because we have younger lads playing against lads physically more developed if not ability wise.

As for what is working and what isn't I'm not sure of the detail so can't comment, but Miller has been a "development" player and for what it seems and what I read from Wilson when we signed him, he was in no rush with him. Whether the time in the development squad has helped or hindered is subjective.

But what we can say, Long and Harry have both come through the academy and slotted into the first team seamlessly. So perhaps the detail and personalities may be open for discussion but the transition seems to be ok.

Should we expect a much higher percentage to come through? Probably yes, but with so few reserve games, a desire to compete in the Carling, Fa and JP cups, we are perhaps being slower to bring players through.
 
Personally, I think that a lot of the players in the Development squad would be fine if used sparingly in the first team. Let's face it, the last player we brought through willingly was probably Monty or Tonge.

Long was a beneficiary of Howard's injury and Maguire had the fortune to be deemed big enough at the tale end of the car-crash that was the 2010-11 season when nobody could be worse than Nosworthy.

The issue I have now is that the senior management don't seem to want to take any risks with playing personnel. I'd love to see Chappell, McFadzean, Kennedy and Philliskirk get a chance tonight but I'd be amazed if even one of them makes the starting XI.

Wilson could start something brilliant but then again, it could all go wrong. At the moment he's not willing to take the chance.

Putney Blade said:
'Cos
'Cos Flynn is crap. Need replacement. Flynn got no pace or strength, no threat whatsoever..
Click to expand...

With fans like this, who needs detractors?

Flynn isn't out and out rapid but then that didn't do Michael O'Halloran much good whatsoever. He is very good tactically and more often than not will beat his man but then needs an option. He's top of the assists chart with 8, double what anyone else has got.

United fans always need a scapegoat, looks like it's Flynn this season. You weren't at Swindon were you? I had three guys behind me berating Flynn for not controlling a ball Collins sent at his head. Ridiculous.
 



Ollessendro said:
Wasn't Philiskirk rated quite highly at Chelsea? Obviously not that much, otherwise they would not have let him go, but didn't he show promise in attacking midfield and up top? I noticed he was banging in goals for the reserves last year, but have not followed this year.

Let's face it, the 'development team' has been a massive fucking flop. We have 'nurtured' players that are either not good enough or that Wilson does not rate (McAllister, Philiskirk, Tonne, Conneely etc) and other than Maguire no youngster has broken through. Why renew contracts of players in their mid 20's who cannot even cut it at third tier level? We hear lots of talk about Chappel, Whitehouse, Harriot, McFeazden etc yet none of them seem anywhere near first team action. They are young I suppose, but Wilson really must not rate them when you see how this rabble has been playing for most of the first half of the season. I can see the value in bringing on some of the academy players (some of the young lads mentioned above might make it) but the aforementioned characters will never play higher than the 4th (max third) division.
Click to expand...

I think the club is still adjusting to creating a competitive U21 side. I agree they shouldn't be handing contracts to 20 somethings who won't make the first team. Chappell is 21 so he must know this recall is probably his last chance. I don't think the similarly aged Philliskirk and Tonne will make it.

I'm still optimistic for Whitehouse who has been unlucky with injury and McFadzean who is only 18. It looks like Diego will be on the bench tonight. Great if this group comes through.

Then we're on to the next group - I haven't seen enough of them, Diego apart, to know if any of them are candidates.
 
Have there been many youngsters that the club has given a real run in the first team who have not turned out decent players?
 
Bergen Blade said:
Have there been many youngsters that the club has given a real run in the first team who have not turned out decent players?
Click to expand...

I suspect you have causation the wrong way round here. Players are only given a real run in the first time if they are decent players. If they are not decent players they don't get a real run.
 
Bergen Blade said:
Have there been many youngsters that the club has given a real run in the first team who have not turned out decent players?
Click to expand...

Ben Doane. Although he did score an absolute belter at Grimsby. Possibly Jonathan Forte but 28 of his 30 appearances were off the bench.

How many youngsters has the club actually given a "real run" to though? I can't think of many:

2012/13: Long
2011/12: Maguire
2010/11: Lowton, Slew
2009/10: none?
2008/09: Naughton
 
Darren said:
I suspect you have causation the wrong way round here. Players are only given a real run in the first time if they are decent players. If they are not decent players they don't get a real run.
Click to expand...

That's your opinion, others may say that young players will often stop developing if they are not given a chance at a high level. Bath Blade suggested Monty. If Monty had been released rather than introduced to the first team at an early age I think he may well have struggled to play regularly in the Championship, let alone the Premiership.
 
SwissBlade said:
Not sure that its true though... from what I understand.

I heard that the kids in each group are at the younger age as we are moving up the older players to the Development squad/ U21's... So...
U21's is made up of the older lads plus the better U18's players
U18's is made up of the upper end of the U16's
And so on... so I don't think results can be judged the same as they were in the Cup Final year because we have younger lads playing against lads physically more developed if not ability wise.

As for what is working and what isn't I'm not sure of the detail so can't comment, but Miller has been a "development" player and for what it seems and what I read from Wilson when we signed him, he was in no rush with him. Whether the time in the development squad has helped or hindered is subjective.

But what we can say, Long and Harry have both come through the academy and slotted into the first team seamlessly. So perhaps the detail and personalities may be open for discussion but the transition seems to be ok.

Should we expect a much higher percentage to come through? Probably yes, but with so few reserve games, a desire to compete in the Carling, Fa and JP cups, we are perhaps being slower to bring players through.
Click to expand...

But why change the coaching methods and tactics when the ones being utilised were being successful in the academy and once they move into the development squad the link with academy is broken. Pembo was not well liked but his methods were proving successful compare Pembo's credentials to those of Morgan and Jamie Hoyland and you can see why maybe a feeling the academy is not being run as well as it could be is prevalent.
 
Bergen Blade said:
That's your opinion, others may say that young players will often stop developing if they are not given a chance at a high level. Bath Blade suggested Monty. If Monty had been released rather than introduced to the first team at an early age I think he may well have struggled to play regularly in the Championship, let alone the Premiership.
Click to expand...

Your argument is ultimately impossible to disprove if you saying that players who United did not give a run to failed to develop because they were not given a run.
 
Darren said:
I suspect you have causation the wrong way round here. Players are only given a real run in the first time if they are decent players. If they are not decent players they don't get a real run.
Click to expand...

Or perhaps the unknown quality is the overriding factor in recent United managers' decision making? It seems to me that from Warnock onwards, Sheffield United managers have only played younger players when they've been forced to by circumstance.

Had the board released the funds to sign Danny Coyle when Mark Howard got injured, do you think George Long would have been given the run in the first team which he's done exceptionally well in? I doubt it - he'd have been back on the bench.

For what it's worth, I share Bergen's frustration that we hear so many good things about the U18s and U21s yet they're not given a chance. I think the bottom line is that Wilson is scared they'll make a mistake and cost us the game/promotion/his job.

Darren said:
Your argument is ultimately impossible to disprove if you saying that players who United did not give a run to failed to develop because they were not given a run.
Click to expand...

Exactly right: it is impossible to disprove. It would be nice to know whether the gist is correct though.
 
Darren said:
Your argument is ultimately impossible to disprove if you saying that players who United did not give a run to failed to develop because they were not given a run.
Click to expand...

Agreed. ;)

The players that United have developed and given a real chance in the first team have almost exclusively turned out decent players, while we have seen some real rubbish come in on loan and on lucerative and lengthy contracts. It's time to prove that some of our youngsters may also actually turn out mediocre or worse even if they are given a run in the team!
 
No it's not time to do that, Bergen, because this is not FIFA 13. It's time to put the best side out that we can in league games, and if Wilson does not think these lads should be part of our best side that's fine by me.
 
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ghandi said:
But why change the coaching methods and tactics when the ones being utilised were being successful in the academy and once they move into the development squad the link with academy is broken. Pembo was not well liked but his methods were proving successful compare Pembo's credentials to those of Morgan and Jamie Hoyland and you can see why maybe a feeling the academy is not being run as well as it could be is prevalent.
Click to expand...

I can't comment on the playing style of the Academy or the development squad, but shouldn't it be the case that they should follow the way that the 1st team play?

I watched the recent England rugby league games and it was pointed out that the young lads coming through into the first team slotted in seamlessly because it is the same style as what they've played throughout.

Looking at (fairly) recent successes with Woodward at England RFU and Brailsford at Team GB (and Sky) it is clear that getting a global overview and ensuring that the practices are the same throughout has benefitted them.

Football has dabbled with Directors of Football and it hasn't really worked, for my mind because it focuses too heavily on a big name making the signings and overrulling the manager. But what could work is to get a team in with a real overview of what the club is trying to achieve. Ultimately we need to link all levels together so that we get a seamless transition into the first team. From what you say this isn't currently the case between academy and the first team but might be worth giving it time...
 
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