James Hill

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Paying Premier League wages sounds easy, but then you end up in a bidding war for players that in many cases would rather chose another bigger club anyway - i.e Watkins. Robinson who went to Fulham would have possibly joined us if we'd matched his offer, wasn't that supposed to be £50,000; whatever it is it would likely make him one of our biggest earners. So yes we did need to increase the wage structure but the players we likely wanted would have other suitors. The difference would have been if we'd gone for foreign based players and even on our modest wage bill would still be set for a healthy increase by coming to us last season. So if we do up this season we'll likely have a very different model closer to Brentford's than what we had last time out. I'm all for that, but at the same token I don't entirely blame Wilder, he got decent players at the time, they may not have come off but they were the best we could afford from the domestic market which Wilder preferred and had serve him so well in getting us promoted.
If you don't blame Wilder , the man who insisted on full control , who else do you blame ?
Did the fairies sign Moosefat , McKnob , Brewster's Millions & Burkey Whizz , who are now worth fuck all ?
Did the fairies sign Calum Robinson + throw him away ?
Did they sign Luke Freeman + never play him ?
Jack Robinson to replace JoC ... for the Premier League ?
Gee Whizz , I wonder if my boss would fail to blame me if I made a series of blunders that bad ?
And lost all his money in the process.
And then got relegated in a feeble way ?
 

I don't get your point
I think explaining that our players are worth the square root of fuck all is Wilders fault

Even selling Ramsdale didn't result in much profit considering what we initially paid Bournemouth plus the sell on.

We have banked at least £10m cash profit on Ramsdale. We paid Bournemouth £12.6m* and working on Arsenal paying us £27m (midway between the £24m initial and £30m including add-ons) and a 15% sell-on we'll have paid them an additional £2.2m. £27m - (£12.6m + £2.2m) = £12.2m.

*covered ad infinitum elsewhere.
 
We have banked at least £10m cash profit on Ramsdale. We paid Bournemouth £12.6m* and working on Arsenal paying us £27m (midway between the £24m initial and £30m including add-ons) and a 15% sell-on we'll have paid them an additional £2.2m. £27m - (£12.6m + £2.2m) = £12.2m.

*covered ad infinitum elsewhere.

Ooooooh
A whole ten million

And that based only on certain things happening in the future
 
Ooooooh
A whole ten million

And that based only on certain things happening in the future
That £10m would be our second highest ever received transfer fee (behind Brooks' £11.5m + addons). Most of the £12.6m for signing him was sunk too so it's £24m of income this season. Fills most of the £40m decrease in revenue.

Still, that's not as effective a stick to beat the club with as dismissing £10m profit on a single season.
 
That £10m would be our second highest ever received transfer fee (behind Brooks' £11.5m + addons). Most of the £12.6m for signing him was sunk too so it's £24m of income this season. Fills most of the £40m decrease in revenue.

Still, that's not as effective a stick to beat the club with as dismissing £10m profit on a single season.

Oooooh £10 million
Second best ever, oooooh
 
If you don't blame Wilder , the man who insisted on full control , who else do you blame ?
Did the fairies sign Moosefat , McKnob , Brewster's Millions & Burkey Whizz , who are now worth fuck all ?
Did the fairies sign Calum Robinson + throw him away ?
Did they sign Luke Freeman + never play him ?
Jack Robinson to replace JoC ... for the Premier League ?
Gee Whizz , I wonder if my boss would fail to blame me if I made a series of blunders that bad ?
And lost all his money in the process.
And then got relegated in a feeble way ?
The thing is though many of those players you've listed made alot of sense at the time.

We can talk about that they haven't really worked out but then not all signings do of course.
Admittedly too many haven't worked out since promotion to the PL which is probably why we are back down in the Championship alongside JOC injury and covid/no fans etc. If they had worked out better then we would have likely sold some on, or have stayed up.

Equally we can talk about how JOC, Egan, McGoldrick, Baldock, Fleck, Norwood (Great in our promotion year) have all proven to be good signings too.

  • For instance McBurnie had just finished on 22 goals and was being looked at by not just us but other PL sides. Wilder wanted Maupay but Brighton offered better wages.
  • Brewster was seen as one of the most promising young strikers in England. 1st choice target was Watkins though of course.
  • Luke Freeman was one of the best attacking midfielders in the championship for a few years, he would have made alot of sense for him to play the duffy role however we played with a flat 3. Then he got injured, loan to forest etc and he's not been able to stake a claim since.
  • Moussett was a bit left field, obvious talent but fitness issues, a £10m gamble. However up until Jan 2020 he looked a steal to be honest.
  • C.Robinson was a good attacking mid in championship too as proven since he's left as well, however before he went to West Brom on loan he was down the pecking order, behind McGoldrick, Sharp, McBurnie and Moussett.
  • Burke was signed for pace up top and to stretch opposition, something he did do. I just don't think he has the composure to back up his pace.
  • J.Robinson was signed as cover for LCB and LB at the time. JOC was not injured when we signed him. In fact Wilder said he wanted to sign a player in Sept 2020 after learning JOC had to go under the knife. The top target was Ben Davies but Wilder was told we won't be signing anyone else.
    I'm not comfortable with him being a first choice LCB however he had a great game last time out.
 
Thing is Bournemouth spent a good number of years in the PL versus our 2yrs so are a much richer club presently.

Like us, they still have parachute payments, but in comparison, they also sold players to balance books after relegation:

2020/21 outs
Ake, Wilson, Ramsdale, Arter = ~£85m

2021/22 outs
Danjuma, Surridge & Rico = ~£25m

That's why we can't compete.

They also had an incredible wage bill when they went down. of 100 million +. SUFC should be in a better position given we have three years pp, a lot lower wage bill and a lot of players up at the end of the year. Plus a higher turnover.
 
McCabe was useless and held the club back for years. I thought the new Board would be an improvement. I was wrong. They are equally shit with little money and no ambition.

McCabe is the best owner United have had since the second World War. That says it all. What we are doing now is desperately getting the cost base down before the parachutes run out, because the owner can't afford to run a Champ club on his lonesome. He should've started this in the summer but he naively tried to role two sixes by appointing Slav and keeping the squad together ( if you remember Egan and Baldock aren't for sale).
 
McCabe is the best owner United have had since the second World War. That says it all. What we are doing now is desperately getting the cost base down before the parachutes run out, because the owner can't afford to run a Champ club on his lonesome. He should've started this in the summer but he naively tried to role two sixes by appointing Slav and keeping the squad together ( if you remember Egan and Baldock aren't for sale).
McCabe - best owner since the 2nd WW?

Are you sure?
 
Yes
But that's because they're happy to play second fiddle to Bournemouth

And years ago it was, Oxford, Wimbledon, Reading, etc who we bowed down to with the "can't compete" bollocks

The reason Bournemouth can outdo us is because after getting relegated they could sell players for a fortune, having bought Premier League quality in the first place.

We haven't got a single player from our Premier League days that we can make a profit on because as usual we couldn't compete

Now we're in the Championship and it's the same old story.....can't compete, won't compete
Bad recruitment is bad recruitment, regardless of approach.

We signed bad players or at best players who haven't performed, simple as that.

Fee/Wages are largely irrelevant to this point, if they don't perform its bad recruitment. If our big money signings had performed, we'd have retained value/made profit on the players, i.e Ramsdale. However Brewster, Berge, Mousset, Mcburnie haven't yet so we dont.

Sure theres a load of what ifs. We could have signed Toney for likely less wages and a smaller fee than Brewster, but we didn't. We could have made Antonee Robinson our highest paid player, but we didn't.

We could have spent shit loads more on transfers or wages and still been left with a load of old shit.
 
McCabe - best owner since the 2nd WW?

Are you sure?

Absolutely.

Infrastructure development: yes
Personal wealth invested: yes.

The big black mark is the football decisions. Choosing the best United owner is a bit like choosing the best way to get run over admittedly. Reg probably has an argument to be fair. Who would you propose?
 
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The argument about all these great foreign players we should have signed for two Bob and a conker still abounds. The obvious question is: where are they then?
Instead we've brought how many extremely expensive loans?
 

Whenever I hear our fans complaining and moaning about money spent and getting jealous of other clubs for having more money, it just reminds me of that kid on the Harry Potter film that kicks off because he didn't get more presents for his birthday this year.

View attachment 127518

I'm showing my own age, but all I see is...

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We have no money, let's be honest here why who knows, Wilder pay off and the players he bought in the end, could be a factor, Slava pay off too, but one thing I do know who ever is playing in red and white on the 1st Feb are here because they want to wear the shirt. So let's support the team management and Prince thats who is here and we have the best supports in my eye's UTB
 
Could be that they’ve offered him a good chance to play in the PL as they’re sat in a far better place than us plus the fact they like to pay big wages unlike us what’s not to like?
 
McCabe is the best owner United have had since the second World War. That says it all. What we are doing now is desperately getting the cost base down before the parachutes run out, because the owner can't afford to run a Champ club on his lonesome. He should've started this in the summer but he naively tried to role two sixes by appointing Slav and keeping the squad together ( if you remember Egan and Baldock aren't for sale).
Prince was daft to appoint Slav when there was no money to back him , even dafter than letting Wilder loose with the PL money to spend on duds - the Brewster signing was like watching a slow-motion car crash when we all knew JoC was fucked even if the club tried to believe he wasn't.
For the Prince/club to find itself flat broke after 2 years PL without even an improved training facility or academy is just unforgivable mismanagement , but so typical of dem Blades.
 
Agree with some of the comments regarding the Princes apparent waste of monies received from our two seasons in the premier, but you do not appoint a manager and then tell him how to manage. This is precisely what Wilder moaned about there there was too much interference now some say there was not enough. Can’t do right for doing wrong.
 
James Hill went to my school, he was a twat in the apprentice as well and was never any good at football. I’m glad we’ve not signed him…..
 
Prince was daft to appoint Slav when there was no money to back him , even dafter than letting Wilder loose with the PL money to spend on duds - the Brewster signing was like watching a slow-motion car crash when we all knew JoC was fucked even if the club tried to believe he wasn't.
For the Prince/club to find itself flat broke after 2 years PL without even an improved training facility or academy is just unforgivable mismanagement , but so typical of dem Blades.

Everything has to be contextualised. When we were promoted to the premier league we'd hardly spent anything on the squad (in terms of long term permanent signings) since the Weir days (certainly not net). United had a lot of ground to make up due to the asset stripping (Adams, Ramsdale, Calvert Lewin, Brooks etc) that had happened, and the lack of real investment in young players that could come through the leagues ( see Fulham, Watford, Bournemouth, Brentford etc). The fact we were promoted and stayed up given that handicap was nothing short of a modern day football miracle. At that point dissenting voices about Wilder being given money to spent, or what he'd spent it on were muted at best. Before the first season in the Prem started they didn't exist. At the meet the chairman day at Bramall Lane - before the first Prem season started - the Prince was showing off about the signings we'd made. "We've made amazing signings and I've underwritten the cost - even if I lose the court case - would be an accurate summation. People on here were ready to perform fellatio on the Prince after hearing those words. Me, I thought he knows he's going to win the court case - let's see what happens in terms of wages, fees and infrastructure investment overall under his stewardship. Words are wind!

The signings were made with the expectation that we were very likely to be relegated. This was stated by the management at various times. This of course dictated everything: wage policy, player targets, positions, renewals; everything. Our wage bill was the lowest in the Prem - even lower than Norwich who were banking the money to pay off their considerable debts from their last flirt with the Prem - and investing a slice of the leftovers in their infrastructure (academy). Year one is thus hard to assess: with hindsight the players will lose a lot of value. Overall, though, in year one they played a part in us surviving in 9th place with a cup quarter final, higher than anticipated prize money, higher sponsorship pay outs, and a third year's parachute payments. wThe big take away from year one for me was how incredibly we were outperforming our financial model. Somebody with greater foresight than me might've asked: is this sustainable? And a follow up question: are the players brought in this season demonstrating that?
It is worth noting that United made considerable gambles all season: no back up for Basham, Baldock or O'Connell was brought in. Just bargain buys or nothing. Still no top quality goalkeeper owned by the club. No Norwood competition until January. A serious club would have plugged those gaps with Premier League quality acquisitions on financial packages consistent with that. It is a myth that Wilder was adequately backed in the first PL season. A lot of this is legacy: the lack of spending in all the previous seasons and selling all our top kids had left us, arguably, with too much to do.

During season two the obvious pre season question was: has the model changed? Given the targets we continued to miss out on and the players we acquired it seems to be an emphatic no. The first thing we had to address was fixing a legacy problem from years of underinvestment: sign a goalkeeper. A large slice of the budget gone on something that needed fixing years ago. Around the same time it was revealed that the Kop post project had been delayed to the following summer (10 or 15 million - sorry I don't remember). The club then took a load of gambles on young players with no proven pedigree at this level. Our shortage of midfielders and lack of proven LCB cover was never addressed. Bogle was a gamble but at least it addressed a needed area. Essentially before a ball was kicked we were making a lot of gambles again: relying on utility men (Osborn, Lundstram, Robinson, Jagielka, bargain basement back up keepers, no real midfield cover) to do jobs that quality first team acquisitions should've been doing.

1)There are four prevailing myths (or comfort blankets) on here. One is that we spent money at levels that are consistent with an ambitious club. This is demonstrably false - the biggest indicator of league position is wages and we were bottom.

2) That we had a shit load of amazing foreign players that were begging to come to United and play for comparatively nothing. The weird signings when Wilder was manager (Restos, Verrips, Zivkovic) give the lie to this. Does anybody believe he wanted them? Where they good? What do you think of United World's amazing signings?
If this myth hasn't been extinguished after the last window it never will be. The manager clearly had little say this season, yet they brought in the most expensive, dull, domestic loans imaginable - including a legacy Wilder pick. The conclusion for season two is that Wilder played a bad hand badly, or as well as he could. I'd go with the former.

3) That Wilder (or any manger) dictates the wages at United. This one is almost too laughable to comment on: no football employee dictates the wage scale at a football club. This is done upstairs. The manager works within those parameters. Did these idiots hear Slav and Wilder moaning?

4) That 3) doesn't in any way dictate the markets you shop in. If you made this point in any other line of work you'd be laughed out of town. Sure, you can spot diamonds in the rough (Ivan Toney?) but they are difficult to spot and few and far between.

5) That infrastructure developments haven't been agreed then baulked on. Covid may give some excuse for this, but the building at Shirecliffe and Kop posts have been promised and not delivered. The talk about a new academy/training ground continued as far as the Heckingbottom unveiling. Sensible people underpromise and over deliver not the contrary. Words are wind!

Moving forward: The mood music coming out of the club and the local press is that our club is moving to a 'sustainable development model'. This is an incredibly ambitious objective to achieve when you are reducing your cost base, dependent on academy players from a Cat 2 system and you have minimal money to invest in the market. The obvious direction of travel is downwards unless you can massively outperform your financial parameters and academy limitations.
 
Moving forward: The mood music coming out of the club and the local press is that our club is moving to a 'sustainable development model'. This is an incredibly ambitious objective to achieve when you are reducing your cost base, dependent on academy players from a Cat 2 system and you have minimal money to invest in the market. The obvious direction of travel is downwards unless you can massively outperform your financial parameters and academy limitations.

Yep. When a club in the Championship (and most clubs in league one) talk about the club being sustainable and living within its means, you know that:

1. the club has no money
2. anyone any good will be sold
3. relegation will come within a few years unless the manager is a genius or we are lucky in the transfer market
4. forget about the PL

McCabe tried this when he cut the budgets further in the summer of 2013, blathering on about self sufficiency. It lasted about 10 weeks, before it became apparent that David Weir was going to relegate us and we'd have to spend to escape.
 
Absolutely nailed it nopigfansintown .

I hope to see the back of these owners to be honest. The lack of investment in our infrastructure, the void of any legacy from our 2 seasons in the PL is so disappointing.

But it's the dishonesty (Bettis, Prince) & now the cowardice in going to ground that I can't abide. We've had a few good results under Heck that have masked over some cracks, but I haven't forgotten how appalling that interview with Yusuf came across.
 
They also had an incredible wage bill when they went down. of 100 million +. SUFC should be in a better position given we have three years pp, a lot lower wage bill and a lot of players up at the end of the year. Plus a higher turnover.

Problem we have is that while we might have a lower wage bill the players who we want to get rid of are on wages which are still high for this division. Especially in the current economic climate. We don't have many assets, if any, which a EPL or top European team would want to sign. While Championship clubs aren't going to spend money on our players. So, we're either loaning and subsiding or hoping a player will take a pay cut.
 
Absolutely.

Infrastructure development: yes
Personal wealth invested: yes.

The big black mark is the football decisions. Choosing the best United owner is a bit like choosing the best way to get run over admittedly. Reg probably has an argument to be fair. Who would you propose?
Reg let himself down with the Hashimi affair.
McCabe oversaw the clubs longest period in Tier 3.
Woolhouse - nothing more needs to be said
McDonald - saw the opportunity to make a quick buck through stock market launch
Hassall - took us from 1st to 4th

Can’t remember much before that.
 
McCabe is the best owner United have had since the second World War. That says it all. What we are doing now is desperately getting the cost base down before the parachutes run out, because the owner can't afford to run a Champ club on his lonesome. He should've started this in the summer but he naively tried to role two sixes by appointing Slav and keeping the squad together ( if you remember Egan and Baldock aren't for sale).

Even with an incredibly low bar (Makes you wonder what might have been if Utd had ever landed on a good owner!), McCabe was horrific and probably only third best behind Brearley and the current lot.

I still wonder how McCabe failed so badly to apply his obvious business acumen he demonstrated by growing Scarborough Group to football ownership. Some of his decisions (appointing Robson, sacking Wilson when in a play-off spot, lining-up ALK Capital as prospective buyers and then ultimately tripping himself up when trying to rip-off HRH) were simply mind blowing.

The current owners are a long, long way from perfect but I'd prefer them to McCabe any day of the week.
 
The problem was that back last season nobody wanted Hecky we all wanted a ‘named’ manager so we could say that if the Prince was listening he gave us what wanted the problem is that Slav wasn’t given any money to spend on new recruits, the uproar there would have been if Hecky had been iappointed would have been huge we are in affect back at square one but £2 million down and possibly a few points down as well.
 
Everything has to be contextualised. When we were promoted to the premier league we'd hardly spent anything on the squad (in terms of long term permanent signings) since the Weir days (certainly not net). United had a lot of ground to make up due to the asset stripping (Adams, Ramsdale, Calvert Lewin, Brooks etc) that had happened, and the lack of real investment in young players that could come through the leagues ( see Fulham, Watford, Bournemouth, Brentford etc). The fact we were promoted and stayed up given that handicap was nothing short of a modern day football miracle. At that point dissenting voices about Wilder being given money to spent, or what he'd spent it on were muted at best. Before the first season in the Prem started they didn't exist. At the meet the chairman day at Bramall Lane - before the first Prem season started - the Prince was showing off about the signings we'd made. "We've made amazing signings and I've underwritten the cost - even if I lose the court case - would be an accurate summation. People on here were ready to perform fellatio on the Prince after hearing those words. Me, I thought he knows he's going to win the court case - let's see what happens in terms of wages, fees and infrastructure investment overall under his stewardship. Words are wind!

The signings were made with the expectation that we were very likely to be relegated. This was stated by the management at various times. This of course dictated everything: wage policy, player targets, positions, renewals; everything. Our wage bill was the lowest in the Prem - even lower than Norwich who were banking the money to pay off their considerable debts from their last flirt with the Prem - and investing a slice of the leftovers in their infrastructure (academy). Year one is thus hard to assess: with hindsight the players will lose a lot of value. Overall, though, in year one they played a part in us surviving in 9th place with a cup quarter final, higher than anticipated prize money, higher sponsorship pay outs, and a third year's parachute payments. wThe big take away from year one for me was how incredibly we were outperforming our financial model. Somebody with greater foresight than me might've asked: is this sustainable? And a follow up question: are the players brought in this season demonstrating that?
It is worth noting that United made considerable gambles all season: no back up for Basham, Baldock or O'Connell was brought in. Just bargain buys or nothing. Still no top quality goalkeeper owned by the club. No Norwood competition until January. A serious club would have plugged those gaps with Premier League quality acquisitions on financial packages consistent with that. It is a myth that Wilder was adequately backed in the first PL season. A lot of this is legacy: the lack of spending in all the previous seasons and selling all our top kids had left us, arguably, with too much to do.

During season two the obvious pre season question was: has the model changed? Given the targets we continued to miss out on and the players we acquired it seems to be an emphatic no. The first thing we had to address was fixing a legacy problem from years of underinvestment: sign a goalkeeper. A large slice of the budget gone on something that needed fixing years ago. Around the same time it was revealed that the Kop post project had been delayed to the following summer (10 or 15 million - sorry I don't remember). The club then took a load of gambles on young players with no proven pedigree at this level. Our shortage of midfielders and lack of proven LCB cover was never addressed. Bogle was a gamble but at least it addressed a needed area. Essentially before a ball was kicked we were making a lot of gambles again: relying on utility men (Osborn, Lundstram, Robinson, Jagielka, bargain basement back up keepers, no real midfield cover) to do jobs that quality first team acquisitions should've been doing.

1)There are four prevailing myths (or comfort blankets) on here. One is that we spent money at levels that are consistent with an ambitious club. This is demonstrably false - the biggest indicator of league position is wages and we were bottom.

2) That we had a shit load of amazing foreign players that were begging to come to United and play for comparatively nothing. The weird signings when Wilder was manager (Restos, Verrips, Zivkovic) give the lie to this. Does anybody believe he wanted them? Where they good? What do you think of United World's amazing signings?
If this myth hasn't been extinguished after the last window it never will be. The manager clearly had little say this season, yet they brought in the most expensive, dull, domestic loans imaginable - including a legacy Wilder pick. The conclusion for season two is that Wilder played a bad hand badly, or as well as he could. I'd go with the former.

3) That Wilder (or any manger) dictates the wages at United. This one is almost too laughable to comment on: no football employee dictates the wage scale at a football club. This is done upstairs. The manager works within those parameters. Did these idiots hear Slav and Wilder moaning?

4) That 3) doesn't in any way dictate the markets you shop in. If you made this point in any other line of work you'd be laughed out of town. Sure, you can spot diamonds in the rough (Ivan Toney?) but they are difficult to spot and few and far between.

5) That infrastructure developments haven't been agreed then baulked on. Covid may give some excuse for this, but the building at Shirecliffe and Kop posts have been promised and not delivered. The talk about a new academy/training ground continued as far as the Heckingbottom unveiling. Sensible people underpromise and over deliver not the contrary. Words are wind!

Moving forward: The mood music coming out of the club and the local press is that our club is moving to a 'sustainable development model'. This is an incredibly ambitious objective to achieve when you are reducing your cost base, dependent on academy players from a Cat 2 system and you have minimal money to invest in the market. The obvious direction of travel is downwards unless you can massively outperform your financial parameters and academy limitations.
A well written post and when I see such a long post I normally don't read it all, but I did. I still think though that it is very difficult to currently accurately assess Wilder's transfer strategy and whether he left out of the back door as so many want to say without knowing the facts and we've not heard anything from Wilder and probably won't for years yet. On the flip side though, we don't know what the quality of the foreign based players were because we didn't go down that route to often; you've summarised on the basis of Zivkovic, Retsos and Verrips, but they may well have just been the only one's Wilder agreed to as they were shots to nothing/low cost and he would rather spend larger fees on domestic players (largely from the Championship) than spend larger fees on players from abroad. Therefore we may have been able to sign better ones but Wilder didn't want to go down that route; that's what the Prince was saying essentially.

I don't blame Wilder for spending millions on transfer fees that largely haven't come off as the wages is what attracts better players, PL players, and ours were frequently coming out of the Championship. But saying that, I'm not so sure that the board can be blamed for not going gun-ho with the wage bill when we've just had such an amazing season, there weren't many who thought we'd be relegated, probably not Chris Wilder for starters. No one could forecast that key players who were superb most weeks the season before, such as Norwood, Fleck and Stevens, would decrease in their levels so much.

On the keeper situation, Wilder could have signed a permanent keeper prior to Henderson, but no doubt not one as good as Hendo. Again had Wilder known that the midfield was going to be so much worse than before I think he may have just played Wes and signed a younger guy to compete but one much cheaper for the future, and spent that money on midfield and/or the LCB.

I don't buy your point on asset stripping so much to be honest. We sold most in League One and you're not going to get top dollar when selling from League One, or be able to keep hold of your better/ more promising youngsters as easily at that level. DCL and Rammers had hardly played also so were never going to be sold for big fees, and I don't think anyone was overly concerned when either was sold because we were just selling potential and DCL has gone onto to have an amazing career thus far that I don't think many at the time would have predicted. Adams we got £2m for which at the time was a reasonable fee I'd say, Brooks was £10m I think, he only played one season for us and wasn't always a starter; maybe at best we could have got another 2/3m out of that deal.

It does appear now under the Prince that we are now driving a much harder bargain for our players it seems.

Finally on the last part, yeah it will be a tough gig re signing promising youngsters but we've still got a very decent Championship squad with this team and should do for next season and the one at least so that will give time to blood the guys we're now signing as youngsters and we'll need to odd permanent signing along the way, one thing I didn't always like from Wilder, especially in the Champ, was his reliance on loan signings, I think we should definitely be focussing more on permanent players even if they're not of the same quality as a short term loan, like Gibbs-White, but it you've got little so show for it if you don't get promoted. Wilder would probably say that there was best value in signing loans.
 
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Everything has to be contextualised. When we were promoted to the premier league we'd hardly spent anything on the squad (in terms of long term permanent signings) since the Weir days (certainly not net). United had a lot of ground to make up due to the asset stripping (Adams, Ramsdale, Calvert Lewin, Brooks etc) that had happened, and the lack of real investment in young players that could come through the leagues ( see Fulham, Watford, Bournemouth, Brentford etc). The fact we were promoted and stayed up given that handicap was nothing short of a modern day football miracle. At that point dissenting voices about Wilder being given money to spent, or what he'd spent it on were muted at best. Before the first season in the Prem started they didn't exist. At the meet the chairman day at Bramall Lane - before the first Prem season started - the Prince was showing off about the signings we'd made. "We've made amazing signings and I've underwritten the cost - even if I lose the court case - would be an accurate summation. People on here were ready to perform fellatio on the Prince after hearing those words. Me, I thought he knows he's going to win the court case - let's see what happens in terms of wages, fees and infrastructure investment overall under his stewardship. Words are wind!

The signings were made with the expectation that we were very likely to be relegated. This was stated by the management at various times. This of course dictated everything: wage policy, player targets, positions, renewals; everything. Our wage bill was the lowest in the Prem - even lower than Norwich who were banking the money to pay off their considerable debts from their last flirt with the Prem - and investing a slice of the leftovers in their infrastructure (academy). Year one is thus hard to assess: with hindsight the players will lose a lot of value. Overall, though, in year one they played a part in us surviving in 9th place with a cup quarter final, higher than anticipated prize money, higher sponsorship pay outs, and a third year's parachute payments. wThe big take away from year one for me was how incredibly we were outperforming our financial model. Somebody with greater foresight than me might've asked: is this sustainable? And a follow up question: are the players brought in this season demonstrating that?
It is worth noting that United made considerable gambles all season: no back up for Basham, Baldock or O'Connell was brought in. Just bargain buys or nothing. Still no top quality goalkeeper owned by the club. No Norwood competition until January. A serious club would have plugged those gaps with Premier League quality acquisitions on financial packages consistent with that. It is a myth that Wilder was adequately backed in the first PL season. A lot of this is legacy: the lack of spending in all the previous seasons and selling all our top kids had left us, arguably, with too much to do.

During season two the obvious pre season question was: has the model changed? Given the targets we continued to miss out on and the players we acquired it seems to be an emphatic no. The first thing we had to address was fixing a legacy problem from years of underinvestment: sign a goalkeeper. A large slice of the budget gone on something that needed fixing years ago. Around the same time it was revealed that the Kop post project had been delayed to the following summer (10 or 15 million - sorry I don't remember). The club then took a load of gambles on young players with no proven pedigree at this level. Our shortage of midfielders and lack of proven LCB cover was never addressed. Bogle was a gamble but at least it addressed a needed area. Essentially before a ball was kicked we were making a lot of gambles again: relying on utility men (Osborn, Lundstram, Robinson, Jagielka, bargain basement back up keepers, no real midfield cover) to do jobs that quality first team acquisitions should've been doing.

1)There are four prevailing myths (or comfort blankets) on here. One is that we spent money at levels that are consistent with an ambitious club. This is demonstrably false - the biggest indicator of league position is wages and we were bottom.

2) That we had a shit load of amazing foreign players that were begging to come to United and play for comparatively nothing. The weird signings when Wilder was manager (Restos, Verrips, Zivkovic) give the lie to this. Does anybody believe he wanted them? Where they good? What do you think of United World's amazing signings?
If this myth hasn't been extinguished after the last window it never will be. The manager clearly had little say this season, yet they brought in the most expensive, dull, domestic loans imaginable - including a legacy Wilder pick. The conclusion for season two is that Wilder played a bad hand badly, or as well as he could. I'd go with the former.

3) That Wilder (or any manger) dictates the wages at United. This one is almost too laughable to comment on: no football employee dictates the wage scale at a football club. This is done upstairs. The manager works within those parameters. Did these idiots hear Slav and Wilder moaning?

4) That 3) doesn't in any way dictate the markets you shop in. If you made this point in any other line of work you'd be laughed out of town. Sure, you can spot diamonds in the rough (Ivan Toney?) but they are difficult to spot and few and far between.

5) That infrastructure developments haven't been agreed then baulked on. Covid may give some excuse for this, but the building at Shirecliffe and Kop posts have been promised and not delivered. The talk about a new academy/training ground continued as far as the Heckingbottom unveiling. Sensible people underpromise and over deliver not the contrary. Words are wind!

Moving forward: The mood music coming out of the club and the local press is that our club is moving to a 'sustainable development model'. This is an incredibly ambitious objective to achieve when you are reducing your cost base, dependent on academy players from a Cat 2 system and you have minimal money to invest in the market. The obvious direction of travel is downwards unless you can massively outperform your financial parameters and academy limitations.
I can't fault any if what you say but basically it boils down to having an owner with no real money of his own to invest.
It's a very depressing fact that the income from arrival in the PL is not sufficient to give you a fighting chance of staying there , even if you survive the first season on adrenalin alone.
You need a billionaire owner - end of.
So what's the point of aiming for promotion now ?
 

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