Is Wilder the solution to the problem of only being half as shit you used to be under Hecky

[knowsnowt]

It's a relevant question.

 

[coaxingstar71]

I think there are wider issues than just which manager replaces another one, depending of course on the ambition of the club.

For large periods of the game Brighton played us off the park. Really good young technical players, all comfortable on the ball, playing virtually one touch football. The difference was obvious. I don't think that's just down to management and coaching, even if it was, Wilder hasn't been back anywhere near long enough to implement that kind of style.

We're still a category B club and while ever that is the case, we're going to struggle to match the calibre of youth players we bring through to the likes of Brighton. Like Brentford, they have a fantastic recruitment strategy. We are nowhere near that. Would Brighton have someone like Ben Osborn running around like a headless chicken for them? I don't think so. We've got Will Osula who looks raw but most people agree is promising. They've got Ferguson, who for me, is a miles better player and is only 19.

Someone said it on another thread and I think it's a good point. We'll have spent 3 seasons out of the last 5 in the Premier League and what do we have to show for it in terms of improvements at the club? The VAR box. Nothing else has really changed in terms of building the club to compete at that level. I suppose the argument is that without those 3 seasons, we'd actually be in deep shit in terms of our financial situation.

My understanding was that this season was all about getting the club on an even keel financially and not over stretching ourselves so that when the inevitable does happen, we're not in the shit again. I can live with that, IF it turns out to be true. We can't be in the position again where we're relying on getting promoted to prevent us going bust.

 

[Champagneblade]

Hecky steadied us back into the road after whatever Slav was trying didn’t work.

A minor rebuild will be required in the summer and Wilder has evidenced an ability to do this where Hecky perhaps has not.

 

[Carlton Blade]

Brighton took their chances, plenty of games under PH where the oppositions profligacy kept it looking closer than it was (similar to 20/21 under Wilder)

Palace, Spurs, City, Fulham, Bournemouth could all easily have scored 5 and United couldn't have been too aggrieved.

Team looks a large amount more competitive now than it did. But not good enough to beat a good PL team playing well. We can give the bottom half a game and maybe catch a good team napping. I'll take that for now because the last month under PH was abject surrender

 

[Champagneblade]

Brighton took their chances, plenty of games under PH where the oppositions profligacy kept it looking closer than it was (similar to 20/21 under Wilder)

Palace, Spurs, City, Fulham, Bournemouth could all easily have scored 5 and United couldn't have been too aggrieved.

Team looks a large amount more competitive now than it did. But not good enough to beat a good PL team playing well. We can give the bottom half a game and maybe catch a good team napping. I'll take that for now because the last month under PH was abject surrender

We looked like a team that were set up to defend for 90 mins I’m under Hecky with many games being defence vs attack.

At least at the moment we look like we will land a few blows.

 

[cahill]

We’re so far below the level required to compete it’s depressing. Yesterday wasn’t just a case of them taking their chances and us missing ours there were times in the first half when our players had no choice but to just stand and watch Brighton use the match as a training exercise in keep ball. We somehow got level and shocked them into stepping up the gas second half. Ok reffing decisions went against us.

Not sure CWAK have the nouse to make us into a force next season.

Our support base has built during recent years to give us a solid feel as a top end Championship club lower end Premier League club. I think an air of resignation is creeping in among fans however. If the Prince wants out let’s hope he finds a buyer who’s willing to invest and take us forward.

 

[Carlton Blade]

We’re so far below the level required to compete it’s depressing. Yesterday wasn’t just a case of them taking their chances and us missing ours there were times in the first half when our players had no choice but to just stand and watch Brighton use the match as a training exercise in keep ball. We somehow got level and shocked them into stepping up the gas second half. Ok reffing decisions went against us.

Not sure CWAK have the nouse to make us into a force next season.

We've competed well against bottom half PL teams, all of whom would win next seasons Championship conformable.

As always, it'll depend on transfer dealings but the basis of a top 8 Championship team is there

 

[cahill]

We've competed well against bottom half PL teams, all of whom would win next seasons Championship conformable.

As always, it'll depend on transfer dealings but the basis of a top 8 Championship team is there

I get what you’re saying but if you consider Bournemouth as a bottom half team and Palace for that matter, we were never really in either game. That said the team we put out against Palace was astonishing for a Premier League side.

 

[Carlton Blade]

I get what you’re saying but if you consider Bournemouth as a bottom half team and Palace for that matter, we were never really in either game. That said the team we put out against Palace was astonishing for a Premier League side.

They were under PH though to be fair

 

[finlaytheblade]

I think there are wider issues than just which manager replaces another one, depending of course on the ambition of the club.

For large periods of the game Brighton played us off the park. Really good young technical players, all comfortable on the ball, playing virtually one touch football. The difference was obvious. I don't think that's just down to management and coaching, even if it was, Wilder hasn't been back anywhere near long enough to implement that kind of style.

We're still a category B club and while ever that is the case, we're going to struggle to match the calibre of youth players we bring through to the likes of Brighton. Like Brentford, they have a fantastic recruitment strategy. We are nowhere near that. Would Brighton have someone like Ben Osborn running around like a headless chicken for them? I don't think so. We've got Will Osula who looks raw but most people agree is promising. They've got Ferguson, who for me, is a miles better player and is only 19.

Someone said it on another thread and I think it's a good point. We'll have spent 3 seasons out of the last 5 in the Premier League and what do we have to show for it in terms of improvements at the club? The VAR box. Nothing else has really changed in terms of building the club to compete at that level. I suppose the argument is that without those 3 seasons, we'd actually be in deep shit in terms of our financial situation.

My understanding was that this season was all about getting the club on an even keel financially and not over stretching ourselves so that when the inevitable does happen, we're not in the shit again. I can live with that, IF it turns out to be true. We can't be in the position again where we're relying on getting promoted to prevent us going bust.

Lot of what you say is true!
One basic difference is they both have billionaire owners who used there wealth to set them on the right path,new stadium, s and more importantly a really good scouting network which costs millions to set up and maintain.
No worries about day to day running the club as cash flow is not a problem.

Neither is a bigger club than us although Brighton have grown the fan base massively.
Prince has said often he can't sustain a premiership club and even struggle to maintain a quality championship club.Willing to stay on as a minor stake older ! Would be good as I think he has the best interests of the club at heart! Finding a wealthy partner is proving difficult.

 

[The Hobott]

Under Hecky we couldn't defend and we were never going to score. Now we look like we might score but still can't defend for toffee. So in that respect the OP is right. Weirdly I'm quite optimistic for next season as I think the defence can be improved by then for Championship level.

 

[BobblesBlade]

KEEP IT YORKSHIRE!!!!!!

 

[metalblade]

As ever this club lurches from one car crash to the next rather than the squad evolving we get a decent bunch together and keep them too long we needed a rebuild when Wilder walked away yet half of that squad is still stinking the place out. Slav made no progress and all Hecky did was steady the ship we didn't really invest in the squad. The contract situation is quite ridiculous how can we or the players plan for the future if we don't know who will be here next season? Three out of five season in the Premier league and we have fuck all to show for it other than a Dulux rebuild of the stadium. That is well over £300m + parachute payments down the drain. The last few years all we have done is develop players for Man city to either sell on or put into their squad, loans are expensive especially when you get relegated as it just leave another hole to fill. Wilder has got a huge job to do in the summer but we need to be bringing our young players into the squad they are going to have to learn on the job like Osula and Brooks are sink or swim we can't be having any more Brewster's.

 

[Rodley]

My understanding was that this season was all about getting the club on an even keel financially and not over stretching ourselves so that when the inevitable does happen, we're not in the shit again. I can live with that, IF it turns out to be true. We can't be in the position again where we're relying on getting promoted to prevent us going bust.

That’s broadly where we are at.

 

[Snake]

Everybody quotes Brighton and Brentford and bemoans our inability to match them in their club organisational set up and particularly scouting prowess.

Well here's some news for you, 80 odd other clubs in the football league are in the same boat as us. It looks like they have stolen a march on how to set themselves up to unearth new talent. But, like everything in football, things will even themselves out in the end. Others will catch up - either by emulating them and doing it better, or finding other ways. That's the way the cookie crumbles. The top dogs will always be the top dogs. Yep there will always be the odd Newcastle case with new silly amounts of money..... like there was Man City and Chelsea before them, going back to Blackburn in the 90s and even Wigan 20 years ago punching crazily above their weight.

The ridiculous money in football now is sapping my love for the game. If Blades weren't in it I doubt I would even watch a PL game on TV. Its a fuckin pantomime.
I pray for the day the money bubble bursts - let it fuck off to Germany or Italy or wherever. I just want my football back.

 

[cahill]

Lot of what you say is true!
One basic difference is they both have billionaire owners who used there wealth to set them on the right path,new stadium, s and more importantly a really good scouting network which costs millions to set up and maintain.
No worries about day to day running the club as cash flow is not a problem.

Neither is a bigger club than us although Brighton have grown the fan base massively.
Prince has said often he can't sustain a premiership club and even struggle to maintain a quality championship club.Willing to stay on as a minor stake older ! Would be good as I think he has the best interests of the club at heart! Finding a wealthy partner is proving difficult.

Thing is Brighton and Brentford are from the wealthiest part of the country and Brightons catchment area for support is enormous in sustaining one club. Their nearest and ’bitter’ rivals are 40 miles away. I appreciate a lot of wealth is attracted to the North West giant clubs and recently Newcastle. But when you consider clubs like Leeds and Sunderland are in inferior positions to Bournemouth, Brighton, Brentford I believe that demonstrates the importance of having wealthy backers.

 

[cahill]

Everybody quotes Brighton and Brentford and bemoans our inability to match them in their club organisational set up and particularly scouting prowess.

Well here's some news for you, 80 odd other clubs in the football league are in the same boat as us. It looks like they have stolen a march on how to set themselves up to unearth new talent. But, like everything in football, things will even themselves out in the end. Others will catch up - either by emulating them and doing it better, or finding other ways. That's the way the cookie crumbles. The top dogs will always be the top dogs. Yep there will always be the odd Newcastle case with new silly amounts of money..... like there was Man City and Chelsea before them, going back to Blackburn in the 90s and even Wigan 20 years ago punching crazily above their weight.

The ridiculous money in football now is sapping my love for the game. If Blades weren't in it I doubt I would even watch a PL game on TV. Its a fuckin pantomime.
I pray for the day the money bubble bursts - let it fuck off to Germany or Italy or wherever. I just want my football back.

Wrote my response before I read yours I think we’re saying similar things

 

[CornwallBlade]

I think there are wider issues than just which manager replaces another one, depending of course on the ambition of the club.

For large periods of the game Brighton played us off the park. Really good young technical players, all comfortable on the ball, playing virtually one touch football. The difference was obvious. I don't think that's just down to management and coaching, even if it was, Wilder hasn't been back anywhere near long enough to implement that kind of style.

We're still a category B club and while ever that is the case, we're going to struggle to match the calibre of youth players we bring through to the likes of Brighton. Like Brentford, they have a fantastic recruitment strategy. We are nowhere near that. Would Brighton have someone like Ben Osborn running around like a headless chicken for them? I don't think so. We've got Will Osula who looks raw but most people agree is promising. They've got Ferguson, who for me, is a miles better player and is only 19.

Someone said it on another thread and I think it's a good point. We'll have spent 3 seasons out of the last 5 in the Premier League and what do we have to show for it in terms of improvements at the club? The VAR box. Nothing else has really changed in terms of building the club to compete at that level. I suppose the argument is that without those 3 seasons, we'd actually be in deep shit in terms of our financial situation.

My understanding was that this season was all about getting the club on an even keel financially and not over stretching ourselves so that when the inevitable does happen, we're not in the shit again. I can live with that, IF it turns out to be true. We can't be in the position again where we're relying on getting promoted to prevent us going bust.

Excellent summary. I could live with what is happening to us if I believed that, in the background, the structural investment you mention was happening. Sadly, I suspect we have done nothing other than continue to drain the well. Until we get an owner with the financial wherewithal to run the club with a strategic plan for the future rather than just staying alive from season to season, things are only going one way.

 

[Millhousesblade1889]

Wilder is literally one result away from having a really good start. Luton was the game he failed. All the rest we’ve picked up results in the games you’d expect us to & got a bonus point vs Villa.

This isn’t his team he left 3 seasons ago which is a long time in football terms.

Let’s judge him properly in the championship.

 

[Millhousesblade1889]

Brighton took their chances, plenty of games under PH where the oppositions profligacy kept it looking closer than it was (similar to 20/21 under Wilder)

Palace, Spurs, City, Fulham, Bournemouth could all easily have scored 5 and United couldn't have been too aggrieved.

Team looks a large amount more competitive now than it did. But not good enough to beat a good PL team playing well. We can give the bottom half a game and maybe catch a good team napping. I'll take that for now because the last month under PH was abject surrender

Agreed, I don’t think a Wilder team gets beat 5-0 at Burnley. I appreciate that’s us accepting anything is better than Hecky, but that’s the position we’re in unfortunately.

I trust the rebuild with Wilder more than Hecky apart from the Lundstrum situation we were never in the position we are now when Wilder was in charge

 

[Grizzly blade]

The gap in quality was huge, particularly through their midfield and into their forwards.

They took risks at the back, which we could have capitalised on and perhaps should have done twice. Better sides than us would have. What they were able to do is take those risks safe in the knowledge we were unlikely to benefit from errors. They simply knew that even though we planned to pen them in, and did it fairly well in the first half, that they could be patient and pass their way out eventually and open us up.

You therefore have to ask if we are capable of developing that style?
Well first of all, before you even try you have to have the support of the fans, it’s easier to do that on a training pitch than at your own ground where nervous fans that can’t handle that risk or hark for days gone by want to “gerrit forrad”
Then you look at the youth set up- Cat B.
A few good lads of your own, interspersed with cast offs from Cat A clubs deemed not good enough for them. Coached by average coaches.
Then recruitment- Brighton scored their first goal which was from a kid I’d never heard of. A young Argentinian lad who was small, but well balanced, strong enough but technically superb. Are we able to bring lads like that to the club?
They have also bought and sold well- Pedro was good but cost a decent fee- though a fee that wouldn’t have been our record signing!!

So, in short we are years away from that level- at least 3. And even then it would require the support and investment of a new owner, with the finances to support-
1. An upgrade and overhaul of the academy facilities to Cat A, the youth coaching to top level highly paid individuals,.
2. Overhaul first team facilities.
3. Scouting network globally to be independent of agencies, solely working for our club.
4. Support the purchase of young players from other clubs at high fees, and have the funds to build the club infrastructure to support them to thrive in the local area with their families.
5. Management team for the first team with a working knowledge of playing that way, able to develop those young talents and build them into the first team.
6. Club board which is set up to support the first team, with a knowledge of the game and what you are trying to achieve. A director of football or similar that leads the club forward.

That is the minimum.
We are in no way able to manage that, and it’s ok saying “but 3 in 5 years of prem money”….its nowhere near enough to get that kind of overhaul going. It barely covers the operating costs of a shit prem side with championship players!!

So it pains me to say we are never going to produce a side capable of that. Never.
There isn’t the appetite for it in the stands or the finances in the boardroom to do it and you need both.
If we got a new billionaire owner, they can’t buy that team….FFP makes sure of that. We’d need to go down a peg or two, be the big fish for a while and gather up all that young talent and allow them the time to grow together and get us back up there when we are ready and able to support all of the points raised earlier.

 

[Kev Gee]

We have wasted huge sums of money on average players. Then when the £ has run out (or tap been turned off) we've been forced to look at our youth players (not such a bad thing) or foreign punts. (Traore, Slimane,)

I'm not an expert in football infrastructure but looking at the club it seems there isn't any plan at all in place. From player contracts to the ground, hotel etc. Is the plan to completely clear the decks and start again? What's the clubs strategy for 1 year... 3 years... 5 years....?

 

[71Blade]

I don't want to hammer Hecky he was ok did a job and then lost our 2 best players before a ball had been kicked that said Wilder is the better option for the championship we have tonnes of players out of contract looks like a complete overhaul. I'd much rather Wilder than Hecky for that job.
I'm not wanting a return to the prem we can't compete and it just sucks the life out of you big ask but I'd like complete overhaul and flirt with the playoffs and see if Wilder can arrange a squad that can in the main stick together like he created in L1.
.

 

[Tom Bott]

That is well over £300m + parachute payments down the drain

Or in players/agents pockets.

Clubs like Stoke, Norwich and Wendy seem to have concluded that spending bonkers millions in transfer fees and wages just for a day in the sun (PL) is not worth the risk.

All good businesses are run on a risk reward basis, many football supporters can only see the 'reward'
which may only last one season.

 

[Bladesince59]

We will stay up next year (probably).

 

[BobblesBlade]

Or in players/agents pockets.

Clubs like Stoke, Norwich and Wendy seem to have concluded that spending bonkers millions in transfer fees and wages just for a day in the sun (PL) is not worth the risk.

All good businesses are run on a risk reward basis, many football supporters can only see the 'reward'
which may only last one season.

Difference with them is they have very wealthy owners.
Once we start next season in the Championship I reckon we will go into financial trouble again.

 

[Racing Blade]

Brighton have also sold several of their 'best' players (Cucurella, Caicedo, MacAllister, Trossard) and then relied upon said recruitment model, to rebuild and sustain their status. Selling, for the right price, is an essential part of the model.

For us, the lack of confidence in our recruitment approach makes the sale of any key player feel like the start of armageddon.

 

[knowsnowt]

Only 12% less shit now.

 

[Davalon]

A more relevant question is why are so many of the public faces of our club, clinically obese?

 

[bladeinspaceandtime]

A more relevant question is why are so many of the public faces of our club, clinically obese?

They eat too much?