Is this really our only option...?

[Tickhill Blade]

COH have thrown away any advantage we had it is a case of damage limitation now, it will indeed be a miracle if we get anything from this season.

Yes and then the fun really starts next summer with no parachute payments!

 

[Tarqs]

Yes...we win lots of games
The proviso we have to be dominant doing that is where the is Wilder the man for us falls down

Livèpool again this weekend won 1-0 , will their fans care it took a 93rd minute penaly to win ..not one of them

Teams that win the most games dont dominate for 90 minutes in them all
The chatening lesson Selles has just provided is a winning manager is far more preferable

Difference being, Liverpool had 80% of the ball and 30 shots.

 

[mattbianco1]

Really? Wilder? Is he really the best possible option for the club? Is there really no way to move on?

I'd say right this moment, after 6 straight defeats, yes!

He knows the club. He knows much of the squad.
He'll be expected to come in and pick right up where he left off.

Getting someone else new to the club and players could take time to gel... Then they may as well let Sellés gel them.

For me Wilder should be brought in with a mission of a top 6 finish. At the end of the season he moves upstairs - promotion or not... He should help the owners find his long-term replacement

 

[GrunkyPeep]

For me Wilder should be brought in with a mission of a top 6 finish. At the end of the season he moves upstairs - promotion or not... He should help the owners find his long-term replacement

100% agree. The DoF role would give him a job for life and can mean that he still has that day to day responsibility, but he has to enable the club to move on from him. We saw just how difficult it has been so he needs to make sure that he isn't impossible to follow and a successor is identified and brought through.

 

[bakeblade]

A lot of what I'm about to say has probably been picked up in other threads, but I don't know that there's one that really captures it all.
Ruben Selles has clearly been a disastrous appointment. I think it was well-intentioned, with an eye to the future, but one that hasn't worked out. Whilst Selles himself was probably out of his depth, his appointment was only one part of a series of changes that needed to be made, in relation to overall strategy, management and coaching structure, recruitment etc. That none of the other changes happened, probably meant that, whomever the coach was, they'd have struggled, to a greater or lesser degree. I was a supporter of moving on from Wilder; as was said on the late, lamented Bladespod, the new approach had a higher ceiling, but also perhaps a lower floor. Sadly, it's the latter of those two predictions which has come to pass. Doesn't necessarily mean that the vision was wrong; however, clearly, the strategy and execution underpinning it was deeply flawed.

So, Selles' position became untenable and he was dismissed. But is going back to Wilder really the best we can do? I have mixed feelings on this. I think that it's unquestionably the safest thing we can do. He's only been out of the building for five minutes, so will be able to pick up where he left off. He does seem to be able to inspire a team (though interestingly, it only seems to work with United, as his other body of work is underwhelming), and I think that the threat of relegation is eliminated by his return.

But...
Really? Wilder? Is he really the best possible option for the club? Is there really no way to move on? People wax lyrical about how he "gets" the club, how he's "one of our own" and all that tosh, when none of that seems to matter when we're talking about professional players, paid to do a job to the best of their ability. What does it even mean, to "get" the club? What makes SUFC apparently uniquely ungettable by other managers, coaches or owners? I'm genuinely curious. I understand that Wilder has a special place in the club's history, and that he's been canonised by an appreciable proportion of the fanbase. But, sooner or later, for one reason or another, he'll have to move on. What then? I've seen, in these threads, Billy Sharp and Chris Basham cited as possible replacements. Again: really? Is Bladey-bladeness in a coach all we can reasonably aspire to? These are club legends - but with zero coaching experience. On paper at least, Selles would be a better hire!

Like I said, I think Wilder will get us out of this mess. But as fans of a club that will endure long after Wilder, we should be looking for evidence of the next step and the one after that. We need a club and a process that is not in thrall to one man. Everyone cites Brighton as the model for a well run club. Their managers and players are regularly picked off... and it doesn't matter, because they have underlying strategy and clarity of purpose. I very much hope that one thing that comes out of this debacle is that a deeply experienced football director (not CW! That would have echoes of Putin oscillating between president and PM) is appointed, who will figure out what we want to be, what we need to get there - and then start working through it.

It was the only decision to make to save the season and shouldn't cost us too much regarding his contract.
The owners should have time now to move towards the DoF / coach model

 

[Bradfordblade]

I'd say right this moment, after 6 straight defeats, yes!

He knows the club. He knows much of the squad.
He'll be expected to come in and pick right up where he left off.

Getting someone else new to the club and players could take time to gel... Then they may as well let Sellés gel them.

For me Wilder should be brought in with a mission of a top 6 finish. At the end of the season he moves upstairs - promotion or not... He should help the owners find his long-term replacement

Spot on. A note of caution though. A lot of people are expecting an immediate upturn in form and results. It might not happen quickly and we might end up nowhere near the top 6. We are very light up front. We have not solved the issue at right back - Godfrey is not the answer. The from amd confidence of Cooper, Burrows, Peck, Campbell and Brooks have dropped off a cliff. It will take a long time for Arblaster to be back to his best. The squad is unbalanced and we have a lot of new faces to bed in. Wilder coming back is not the only oprion but in these circumstances it is the best one. The damage done in the last 3 months is enormous and it might take a bit of time for us to start winning regularly

 

[relish]

I like Wilder and am glad to see him (hopefully) back managing the team. I would support having a Director of Football above him, so that we're not entirely dependent on him for everything, forever.
But I don't see Wilder as a Director of Football. It seems to me that the DoF role involves all the bits that Wilder is not so good at (player recruitment, managing relations with the owners etc etc), and none of the bits that he is actually really good at (man-managing the players, setting up an effective team, etc).

 

[ShockingBadBuy]

There's a guy who just got sacked that had nowhere near the CV to justify getting a plum Champ job over a guy with a much better CV. Now that was illogical. Spainy Spainyness?

Very good.

 

[metalblade]

I'd say right this moment, after 6 straight defeats, yes!

He knows the club. He knows much of the squad.
He'll be expected to come in and pick right up where he left off.

Getting someone else new to the club and players could take time to gel... Then they may as well let Sellés gel them.

For me Wilder should be brought in with a mission of a top 6 finish. At the end of the season he moves upstairs - promotion or not... He should help the owners find his long-term replacement

Do you think we are going to storm the league starting next Saturday?

I'd agree at the moment Wilder is our best option but half the squad he had last season have left the club replaced by shit loans and AI kids. I reckon it might take a month before we see much improvement some of the players we signed have still not had any game time the squad will still be getting to know each other, then there is the task of the rest getting a bit of confidence back. I don't expect Wilder to just pick up where he left off he will need some time to get his ideas to the new faces.

 

[JohnDenver]

Yes and then the fun really starts next summer with no parachute payments!

I do wonder if the fans understand what’s coming. As of next season we’re at best a Norwich (but much less professional). At worst, we’re where Stoke spent the last few years.

It’s so difficult.

 

[mattbianco1]

Do you think we are going to storm the league starting next Saturday?

I'd agree at the moment Wilder is our best option but half the squad he had last season have left the club replaced by shit loans and AI kids. I reckon it might take a month before we see much improvement some of the players we signed have still not had any game time the squad will still be getting to know each other, then there is the task of the rest getting a bit of confidence back. I don't expect Wilder to just pick up where he left off he will need some time to get his ideas to the new faces.

I think we'll be fine.

There's 4 games to the International break now. Needs to be targeting 6pts plus. Ideally 8pts, if if being greedy 10!

• Charlton (h) - 3pts
• Oxford (a) - 1pt
• Southampton (h) - 1pt
• Hull (a) - 3pts

Coming back in, that's 3/4 "nice" games to start with

 

[metalblade]

Back to being a selling club

 

[Tickhill Blade]

Spot on. A note of caution though. A lot of people are expecting an immediate upturn in form and results. It might not happen quickly and we might end up nowhere near the top 6. We are very light up front. We have not solved the issue at right back - Godfrey is not the answer. The from amd confidence of Cooper, Burrows, Peck, Campbell and Brooks have dropped off a cliff. It will take a long time for Arblaster to be back to his best. The squad is unbalanced and we have a lot of new faces to bed in. Wilder coming back is not the only oprion but in these circumstances it is the best one. The damage done in the last 3 months is enormous and it might take a bit of time for us to start winning regularly

I agree, I think we will struggle for goals pretty much however Wilder sets us up this time.

Campbell - best return is 10 league goals last season
Cannon - shite
Ings - will be injured for a good % of the time
Ogbene - only ever scored 12 league goals at Champ or above
One - raw
O'Hare - 2 goals in the whole of last season
Peck - never scored nor looks like doing so
Barry/Brooks - not going to get more than a couple of goals a piece on current form

I think it's going to be a real slog to get up the table

 

[Tickhill Blade]

I do wonder if the fans understand what’s coming. As of next season we’re at best a Norwich (but much less professional). At worst, we’re where Stoke spent the last few years.

It’s so difficult.

We'd best hope Arblaster comes back as he was before, and one of the other youngsters has a good season, so we've at least got a couple of assets to sell

 

[ISZA ⚔️]

Oxford (a)

Let’s hope he doesn’t lose his head again

 

[georgebernardshaw]

Quick and easy response and they can claim they’ve listened to what the fans want to get a minor PR win.

Leaves me with more questions than answers.

…..so they do visit this forum.

 

[Booker4]

It’s definitely been captured in a lot of other threads. I predict the responses you’ll get are either:

“Bollocks you xxxx, our Chrisseh is reyt good, everyone else is shit, no more foreign muck”

Or

“Yeah you’re right pal, club will never go forward with this dinosaur in charge, we should have got Rohl/Blessin/Still/whoeverthecurrentfadmanageris instead”

It’s all been done to death. I’m just happy that Selles has gone and that the board seem to have realised they know fuck all about football and the club and have therefore gone for a ‘safe pair of hands’ until they work out what to do next. With any luck it’ll take them a few years and we can just have consistency for a period. The concern is that we’ve sold good players and signed worse ones, so it’s not that easy.

We’ll never stay in the PL for more than the odd season anyway so we may as well have Wilder. Just don’t let him sign forward players costing more than a £million, keep him on 1 or 2 year contracts on a rolling basis and he should be ok.

It's not because Chrissy is one of our own or he gets the club at all. They're just bonuses. It's because he's actually a very good football manager. I just can't fathom why some of our fanbase can't see this as the only thing that matters because within our limitations as a football club in terms of size, the league we're in and current position I don't see a better manager than Wilder who we could get. He also knows many of the players and succeeded with them last season. But no, let's get Michael Carrick or why can't we get Sean Dyche. Probably because he knows he's got a great chance if a OK club. Then you've got some fans who dont want Dyche because his football is defensive! Deary me, that's the one thing we need sorting more than anything else.

So you can make out that it's fans saying none of that foreign muck but it's far more because Wilder has a very good record as a manager, end of.

 

[KMC-1889]

He literally won us 92 points last season, really don't understand why he gets so muck flack for a club legend.

Because;

1. 92 points is completely irrelevant when the three clubs they got promoted got 100,100 & 76. I’d have taken 80 points if it meant promotion. Quoting a points total out of context is stupid.

2. He bottled every single big game last season, both in the league and the play off final. He was 2 points clear with 7 games and had to play 5 teams in the bottom of half of the table and he approached this by playing dull, negative, defensive football. We were an incredibly defensive team that couldn’t defend against any players with a bit of pace.

Coupled to this incredibly shaky defence our attacking stats & fitness levels were some of the worst in the league.

All his achievements came over 5 years ago. He gets all the praise for 2016-2019 but ducks the blame for 20/21 and not being any better when he replaced Hecky.

Wilder needs united more than United need Wilder. Wasn’t a massive clamour for his signature over the summer was there? Brentford chose his back room staff rather than than giving him the job.

I just want my football club to behave like other professional clubs. I don’t want a circus ringleader mouthing off in interviews and dancing on tables. It’s embarrassing and makes us look like a tinpot Sunday league club

More importantly, what if he does what he did when he replaced PH and results don’t improve? Where do we go from there?

 

[vas borbokis]

All excellent achievements, but as already mentioned, a long time ago; I'm afraid he's not the same person, lets emotions get in the way now.

I'll remember you for any future magic bean requirements though

Give over now.
Tha:'s being daft lad.

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

If the owners choose to bring Wilder back then who manages Wilder, he needs managing and its clear that Bettis cant do it.
Call it DOF or whatever but it needs a strong football person who takes no shit and the authority to hire and fire .

The scene from lock stock immediately springs to mind ..

" If you get pissed in the Banner ,you're sacked , if you start fights and get fines , your sacked , if you say something when weve told you to keep you mouth shut , your sacked , if your mates tweet shit your sacked...in fact Chris your going to find it difficult to stay employed"

I think you've misread the room buddy.

Think you'll find the analogy is correct but you've got it arse about it.

It's Wilder who's throwing out the demands. Reject my transfers? I'll walk and you can recruit another Selles. Tell me I can't use international breaks to go play golf on the Algarve? I'll walk and you can recruit another Selles. Question my antics in the Banner? I'll walk and you can recruit another Selles. In fact COH, you're going to have to give me exactly what I want, otherwise you'll be back wondering whether Selles or Danny Rohl is the better option....

 

[brownblade]

It's all a bit ridiculous.
Is he going to be on a 1yr deal?
The owners need to get the structure sorted so the next manager isn't screwed before he starts.

My 7 year old son was able to guess who the next manager is (if CW). That's not a normal situation.

 

[vas borbokis]

100% agree. The DoF role would give him a job for life and can mean that he still has that day to day responsibility, but he has to enable the club to move on from him. We saw just how difficult it has been so he needs to make sure that he isn't impossible to follow and a successor is identified and brought through.

Why? He's not an old man. He could run us for years.

 

[Pandev]

A lot of what I'm about to say has probably been picked up in other threads, but I don't know that there's one that really captures it all.
Ruben Selles has clearly been a disastrous appointment. I think it was well-intentioned, with an eye to the future, but one that hasn't worked out. Whilst Selles himself was probably out of his depth, his appointment was only one part of a series of changes that needed to be made, in relation to overall strategy, management and coaching structure, recruitment etc. That none of the other changes happened, probably meant that, whomever the coach was, they'd have struggled, to a greater or lesser degree. I was a supporter of moving on from Wilder; as was said on the late, lamented Bladespod, the new approach had a higher ceiling, but also perhaps a lower floor. Sadly, it's the latter of those two predictions which has come to pass. Doesn't necessarily mean that the vision was wrong; however, clearly, the strategy and execution underpinning it was deeply flawed.

So, Selles' position became untenable and he was dismissed. But is going back to Wilder really the best we can do? I have mixed feelings on this. I think that it's unquestionably the safest thing we can do. He's only been out of the building for five minutes, so will be able to pick up where he left off. He does seem to be able to inspire a team (though interestingly, it only seems to work with United, as his other body of work is underwhelming), and I think that the threat of relegation is eliminated by his return.

But...
Really? Wilder? Is he really the best possible option for the club? Is there really no way to move on? People wax lyrical about how he "gets" the club, how he's "one of our own" and all that tosh, when none of that seems to matter when we're talking about professional players, paid to do a job to the best of their ability. What does it even mean, to "get" the club? What makes SUFC apparently uniquely ungettable by other managers, coaches or owners? I'm genuinely curious. I understand that Wilder has a special place in the club's history, and that he's been canonised by an appreciable proportion of the fanbase. But, sooner or later, for one reason or another, he'll have to move on. What then? I've seen, in these threads, Billy Sharp and Chris Basham cited as possible replacements. Again: really? Is Bladey-bladeness in a coach all we can reasonably aspire to? These are club legends - but with zero coaching experience. On paper at least, Selles would be a better hire!

Like I said, I think Wilder will get us out of this mess. But as fans of a club that will endure long after Wilder, we should be looking for evidence of the next step and the one after that. We need a club and a process that is not in thrall to one man. Everyone cites Brighton as the model for a well run club. Their managers and players are regularly picked off... and it doesn't matter, because they have underlying strategy and clarity of purpose. I very much hope that one thing that comes out of this debacle is that a deeply experienced football director (not CW! That would have echoes of Putin oscillating between president and PM) is appointed, who will figure out what we want to be, what we need to get there - and then start working through it.

Brilliant post. Completely agree.

I’m happy Wilder is back as I love him however we need to move on. Every time we struggle we can’t just go back to him. Is the new plan to keep Wilder forever?

I wasn’t happy when he was sacked but I was happy to see the club move forward with a modern approach.

This is clearly a quick fix from the owners. The speed it’s been done at makes me think there has been no attempt to find other candidates / interviews.

Is it not embarrassing the only job for wilder is here and the only manager we can be successful with is Wilder?

 

[Zeblades34]

I don’t want a circus ringleader mouthing off in interviews and dancing on tables. It’s embarrassing and makes us look like a tinpot Sunday league club

In a world of boring, square robotic like managers we have one who supports the club and has a genuine connection with it yet you have a problem with him celebrating a derby double having a little chant in a pub come on.

not being any better when he replaced Hecky.

None could've done any better with that side it would've struggled worse than this one now

Quoting a points total out of context is stupid.

Not really he won the joint 2nd amount of points in the division in really what were supposed to be a rebuild season given the mass outgoings at the end of the season before

 

[Carlton Blade]

A lot of what I'm about to say has probably been picked up in other threads, but I don't know that there's one that really captures it all.
Ruben Selles has clearly been a disastrous appointment. I think it was well-intentioned, with an eye to the future, but one that hasn't worked out. Whilst Selles himself was probably out of his depth, his appointment was only one part of a series of changes that needed to be made, in relation to overall strategy, management and coaching structure, recruitment etc. That none of the other changes happened, probably meant that, whomever the coach was, they'd have struggled, to a greater or lesser degree. I was a supporter of moving on from Wilder; as was said on the late, lamented Bladespod, the new approach had a higher ceiling, but also perhaps a lower floor. Sadly, it's the latter of those two predictions which has come to pass. Doesn't necessarily mean that the vision was wrong; however, clearly, the strategy and execution underpinning it was deeply flawed.

So, Selles' position became untenable and he was dismissed. But is going back to Wilder really the best we can do? I have mixed feelings on this. I think that it's unquestionably the safest thing we can do. He's only been out of the building for five minutes, so will be able to pick up where he left off. He does seem to be able to inspire a team (though interestingly, it only seems to work with United, as his other body of work is underwhelming), and I think that the threat of relegation is eliminated by his return.

But...
Really? Wilder? Is he really the best possible option for the club? Is there really no way to move on? People wax lyrical about how he "gets" the club, how he's "one of our own" and all that tosh, when none of that seems to matter when we're talking about professional players, paid to do a job to the best of their ability. What does it even mean, to "get" the club? What makes SUFC apparently uniquely ungettable by other managers, coaches or owners? I'm genuinely curious. I understand that Wilder has a special place in the club's history, and that he's been canonised by an appreciable proportion of the fanbase. But, sooner or later, for one reason or another, he'll have to move on. What then? I've seen, in these threads, Billy Sharp and Chris Basham cited as possible replacements. Again: really? Is Bladey-bladeness in a coach all we can reasonably aspire to? These are club legends - but with zero coaching experience. On paper at least, Selles would be a better hire!

Like I said, I think Wilder will get us out of this mess. But as fans of a club that will endure long after Wilder, we should be looking for evidence of the next step and the one after that. We need a club and a process that is not in thrall to one man. Everyone cites Brighton as the model for a well run club. Their managers and players are regularly picked off... and it doesn't matter, because they have underlying strategy and clarity of purpose. I very much hope that one thing that comes out of this debacle is that a deeply experienced football director (not CW! That would have echoes of Putin oscillating between president and PM) is appointed, who will figure out what we want to be, what we need to get there - and then start working through it.

No, it wasn't. But there was no compensation, he's a competent Championship manager, he knows all the players names, he lives local etc.

Club has got itself into a mess and this is likely the quickest and safest way to extricate itself from it

 

[The Crab]

The only thing I could see is that we’re going to have to pay Ruben Selles off and it sounds like Wilder is coming back in on his old terms. This means he’s the cheapest option (from what’s been reported)

If we’d have got someone else in we’d have been paying for 3 managers

In a weird way it makes financial sense.

In the same way that me being fired out a catapult instead of getting the bus to work makes more financial sense

 

[Edgar Allan Poo]

In a weird way it makes financial sense.

In the same way that me being fired out a catapult instead of getting the bus to work makes more financial sense

Today's impossible and highly dangerous dream is tomorrow's Crab Industries latest patent.

 

[GrunkyPeep]

Why? He's not an old man. He could run us for years.

He's the 5th oldest manager in the EFL and the oldest in the Championship.

He won't be around forever and we need to make sure when he does go the next time that it doesn't go the same way as Selles.

 

[Berkshire Blade]

Let's imagine some alternative world where we had the season we had last year and somehow completely separately so did Wilder and he had zero history with us.

We would think he was too good a candidate to come here in our current state.

 

[SouthportBlade]

Depends on how the owners view this change. Few questions spring to mind…

Are they ditching there big AI / data / modernisation idea?
Or have they realising they’d moved too fast and tried to change too much at once?
Is Wilder a ST option whilst they get the house / infrastructure in order?
Are they seeing Wilder as a LT solution and reverting to status quo?
Or do they simply have no idea what they are doing?

Whilst it’s in very different fields, the owners are largely successful, most likely pretty intelligent and wouldn’t be looking to piss £100m up the wall.

You’d hope it’s a bit of humility, and they’ve recognised they’ve made some pretty fundamental errors and are course correcting to a more evolutionary vs revolutionary approach.