Is there anyone who thinks we shouldn't make the change yet?

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On the one hand, 4 games isn’t enough time - Wilder lost 4 of his first 5 and he turned it around (I know it’s been said a million times before but it’s true).

Plus we have just brought a few new players in, who may well improve us once they’ve bedded in.

On the other hand, we don’t look good at all, like we look David Weir levels of clueless at times and it’s hard to see how that turns around if the current manager doesn’t change something.

Conclusion, give him the next 4 games, 2 of which are very winnable and then make a decision, not just based on results either. We have to see a marked improvement on performance otherwise it’ll be very clear we aren’t going anywhere with Selles
 
I would give him until Oct/nov however my biggest concern, and one which would force me to act quicker, Is he has the wilder stubbiness

It’s one thing to stick you your tactics to try and get players to get the system but when things aren’t working and you keep trying it

My biggest gripe, if you want to use Cannon or one use them up the middle, Campbell has played outside, us him on the outside if you want to use Cannon/One

It’s just ridiculous
 
bartman said:
You are right in saying 4 games isn't enough but after 4 games, if the manager can't see that a midfield 3 if Hamer,Peck and O'Hare doesn't work( in reality it is a midfield one of Peck), something clearly isn't right. We have scored one league goal in 4 league games and the manager thinks we are playing ok based on his comments yesterday.
At the moment we don't look like winning,scoring or effectively competing and I reckon the Board will have no option but to consider Selles' position.
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And the fact we have only managed one goal despite the number of attacking players on the pitch is absolutely damning. It's unacceptable and nowhere near good enough for a club that - for the most part - has been on an upward trajectory since getting out of League 1.

There's just no excuse, yes we've lost Vini and Anel, I actually would take Tanganga over Anel based on what I've seen of them both. So in effect we've lost one player. Yes he's an important player and you only have to look at Man City losing Rodri to see the implications of losing your DM but it still doesn't justify us going from being 45 mins from the PL, to rock bottom.

It's not just the results, it's the manner of the performances. Players look lost.
 
DW Blade said:
My issue is that after 4 minutes of the game yesterday it stuck out like a sore thumb. Boro easily passed through our lines centrally and overloaded out wide.
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We knew this would happen when we saw the teamsheet. It was immediately obvious in the game. 3 simple unchallenged passes and the opposition are on us.

He simply will be sacked if he doesn’t change things. Whether or not he should be sacked would depend on what he’s saying to the club hierarchy about how he turns it around.
 
If it was any other club and I’d say sacking a manager after 4 games is madness and nowhere near enough time. But when it’s your own club, I’m finding it impossible to take that view. It’s the manner of the defeats. If there was an obvious approach and things they were clearly coaching the squad on. If the players looked up for it and bought in. If there were signs of improvement and development game by game. But there’s none of that. He just look dead in the water. Do we seriously think more time will change any of that? I’m not sure I do. Time to admit it was not the right fit and correct the mistake as quickly as possible before more damage is done. He may be a good guy. He may be a good manager: but right here, right now, it’s not going to work so need to act decisively.
 
Id argue we put up more of a fight at their place yesterday, than we did under Wilder.
Chong taps that cross in and its a while different story as well.
 
just ted said:
If it was any other club and I’d say sacking a manager after 4 games is madness and nowhere near enough time. But when it’s your own club, I’m finding it impossible to take that view. It’s the manner of the defeats. If there was an obvious approach and things they were clearly coaching the squad on. If the players looked up for it and bought in. If there were signs of improvement and development game by game. But there’s none of that. He just look dead in the water. Do we seriously think more time will change any of that? I’m not sure I do. Time to admit it was not the right fit and correct the mistake as quickly as possible before more damage is done. He may be a good guy. He may be a good manager: but right here, right now, it’s not going to work so need to act decisively.
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And this is why I think he at least needs the international break; it's essentially 2 weeks on the training ground, full new squad to work with and try and get to grips with the system (whatever that might be!). But I would agree that after that, if there's still no obvious improvements, then it would be time to think again I'd reckon.
 
Not sure if the directors read this board ...lol
But if they check the table they should at least be seeing g whose available one name not mentioned by anyone is Jesse marsh American ,,, ticks every box for them leeds fans tell me he so statiscall n his methods
Hope not
If we do change coach it has to be in the 2nd international break where the new man gets to know his players
Repeat rinse needs new players for his style ffs
 
GymClassHero said:
You can't be serious? We've been outplayed in every single game bar the odd purple patch.
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Sacking any manager after 4 games isn’t serious, it’s complete over reaction

But football is what it is, sometimes there is no choice to change because you don’t get the time

And this fan base is at a point where they aren’t willing to give the time

Selles might go on and lose next 10, he might win one in 5 games time and start turning it around so we stay up and then next season

But he isn’t going to get that time
 

I’m happy to give him the time he deserves based on progress so far …. so if he hasn’t won a game by tomorrow morning at 9am then we sack him and he can’t have any complaints.
Dyche or Cooper in about a hour later please.
 
just ted said:
If it was any other club and I’d say sacking a manager after 4 games is madness and nowhere near enough time. But when it’s your own club, I’m finding it impossible to take that view. It’s the manner of the defeats. If there was an obvious approach and things they were clearly coaching the squad on. If the players looked up for it and bought in. If there were signs of improvement and development game by game. But there’s none of that. He just look dead in the water. Do we seriously think more time will change any of that? I’m not sure I do. Time to admit it was not the right fit and correct the mistake as quickly as possible before more damage is done. He may be a good guy. He may be a good manager: but right here, right now, it’s not going to work so need to act decisively.
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If I saw other clubs fans talking about sacking a manager after 4 games I would be the first to say "typical modern football fans".

And yet here I am

I totally understand that it's so early, that he's following on from a legend and that the board have made his job much harder than it should have been. I don't even think he's a terrible manager. I just think it's not going to happen for him here. A lot of circumstances out of his control have put us in this position but I just don't think there is any chance of him turning it round.

When he was successful at Reading, he was disliked for the first 6 months because results were so poor. He only kept his job because they were in such a state off the pitch. It then all clicked and he left as a hero. The same could very well happen here if he was given time but we could also quite easily end up in L1.

I think Selles is a far better manager than the players are currently making him look but I also think the players are far better than the manager is making them look. It's just a bad fit. It happens.

Selles is used to taking over clubs that are on their arse needing guidance with little expectations for results. Taking on a club expected to win most weeks with players who have been highly successful at this level is a whole new world for him. I'm sure he will learn from this experience but I think the doubt within the squad and fans is too deep now for him to turn it around. I think everybody, including Selles, knows he's going to get sacked soon so why bother waiting and throwing even more games? There is still a chance of a successful season but it's going to get harder and harder as the weeks pass.

I hope I'm looking at this post in May and thinking "what an idiot I was" but no part of me can envisage it working with Selles
 
I went into yesterdays game expecting the lose and not play well as a consequence of the fucking about during the transfer window and was prepared to give him longer to bed in new players.


Two things changed for me yesterday and have brought me to the conclusion that’s he should go and go now. First he seems unwilling to adapt to the realities of the players he currently has available and change his set up to try and make games more competitive whilst he works towards his ideal set up later down the line it’s all or nothing it seems. Second the players look like they’ve given up on him and it’s a big ask to turn that round.
 
I get the sentiment of give him longer & I agree it isn’t long enough.

However, this is plain to see for everyone that he’s out his depth & sometimes you just have to realise that and cut your losses rather than ‘doing the right thing’ and giving him time.

We will win matches with Selles if he stays, so if we’re just giving him the time until he does then that’s not a good enough reason.

What we all want to see is some identity to how we’re going to play. I wouldn’t say Boro are a particularly good team but they absolutely battered us for large parts of the game.
 
FTPE said:
Id argue we put up more of a fight at their place yesterday, than we did under Wilder.
Chong taps that cross in and its a while different story as well.
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Boro should have been out of sight at half time and their substitutions up front in the second half made a right old mess of some of their chances within the second period. That was not the same as last season, yes we were poor up their previously, but we wasn't wide open like yesterday, constantly passing/running through our lines.

Even the Boro fans couldn't believe just how poor we were.
 
Albeit very late there has been an admission from the silent board that we are very weak in terms of numbers. I really don't like how angry I get watching good players look very very poor. Im torn heart says give him more time the players coming in are his, allow him time however head says he needs support at coach level the midfield and the substitutions yesterday made him look very silly. I don't want us to become a sacking club however 6 seasons in league one I never want to see that again in my lifetime.

The nagging doubt in my head is if he is given time how damaging could this be? Silly thoughts the payoff for him and his staff coupled with all the dosh on a new manager new staff new players ..

In a nutshell what a mess
 
FTPE said:
Id argue we put up more of a fight at their place yesterday, than we did under Wilder.
Chong taps that cross in and its a while different story as well.
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Forgot about the Chong chance. If he nets that, and Campbell takes a millisecond less time to release his shot, we win 2-1. Of course they had numerous chances too, but on another day we get 3 points (albeit luckily). We had two clear chances that should have been goals.
 
Edgar Allan Poo said:
Sacking a manager after just 4 games is just plain daft.
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Losing your first 5 games and expecting more chances is just plain daft as well.

You’ve got to be seeing green shoots to persevere.

A small child could see what is wrong with the set up.

We’ve managed one goal in open play in 5 matches and one individual worldy that no manager could claim was part of any plan.
 
Champagneblade said:
Losing your first 5 games and expecting more chances is just plain daft as well.

You’ve got to be seeing green shoots to persevere.

A small child could see what is wrong with the set up.

We’ve managed one goal in open play in 5 matches and one individual worldy that no manager could claim was part of any plan.
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Four of those were by a single goal though.
 
Ipswich at least, come Tuesday morning we (along with the rest of the league) will know where we are squad wise and he'll have the international break to try and find a winning formula.

If there aren't enough signs of improvement against Ipswich (who haven't started well themselves), then it might be for the best if we replaced him.

Ipswich away is a game we could probably afford to lose or draw, but Charlton at home is one that we need to win.

The one benefit we have is that no one is really running away with it yet, Stoke, Middlesbrough and WBA might have started well, but none of them are teams that worry me in regards to top 2 or even top 6.

Both us and Forest sacked our managers later than this after poor starts in 21/22 (Slav and Chris Hughton) and both of us still reached the playoffs, Forest even had a brief challenge for the autos that season.
 
skegblade said:
Not sure if the directors read this board ...lol
But if they check the table they should at least be seeing g whose available one name not mentioned by anyone is Jesse marsh American ,,, ticks every box for them leeds fans tell me he so statiscall n his methods
Hope not
If we do change coach it has to be in the 2nd international break where the new man gets to know his players
Repeat rinse needs new players for his style ffs
Click to expand...
Marsch is taking Canada to the WC in the US.

Don't see him swapping that for us.

If he was out of work, then maybe
 

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