Is it time to ditch Shirecliffe ?

[Ashtonsmashton]

Should McCabe sell Shirecliffe to the Wendys and shares with Sheffield FC in building a ground nearer the Lane ..
Also the Development squad seems to be just a waste of money because on the very rare occasion we have had some one good enough for the first team they are sold on,and the ones we keep seem to be just an excuse not to spend money...

I can't see why we can't just train a t brammal lane with the new pitch, then we can use all the money we save to terminate many contracts

 

[Hunkerby]

There's never a question of it adding some value, just questions of if it recoups its' costs, and if it detracts from scouting the players you actually need.

UTB

There is also the question of investing for the future or spending immediately on players.
The Academy is a good investment in my view but used as an excuse to under-invest in scouting.
We act at times like a government that gives out tax cuts before an election instead of building roads schools and hospitals.
Only trouble is we then go on to lose the election every season.

 

[Silent Blade]

Monty, jags and Thompson never played in the academy??? That's not true at all. They all did at somepoint.

.

What I said is 100% true! We started having an Academy in 2001. Monty, Jags and Thompson were in the reserves/1st team by then

 

[Silent Blade]

Monty, jags and Thompson never played in the academy??? That's not true at all. They all did at somepoint.

Yeah we got tonge at 15, but he didn't make his debut for us until 18, so he was playing in the academy and reserves for 3 years. Same goes for Quinn.

Nothing wrong with signing players at 15/16/17 and then developing them further to bring through...which supports the notion that the academy is worthwhile as we used it to develop those players during the later stages of their development.

The idea of the Academy was to produce our own players for the 1st team rather than signing players from other clubs. It hasnt worked since Maguire got into the 1st team in 2011 and especially because of the EPPP. You are probably not aware that quite a few of our best talent have moved to PL clubs for very little compensation in the last few years (we sold Mellis for £1M but this isnt going to happen again unless our Academy is in Category 1) because of the EPPP. The PL Loves the EPPP so we are spending too much on the Academy and losing the best talents. We have been signing players on loan from PL clubs. We are in this division for the 5th season running.

 

[Borbokisfreekick]

What I said is 100% true! We started having an Academy in 2001. Monty, Jags and Thompson were in the reserves/1st team by then

Center of excellence then, it's the same thing. The academy is just the modern day version.

Those players still came through a center of excellence / youth teams and were developed within that. It's the same concept.

 

[Silent Blade]

Center of excellence then, it's the same thing. The academy is just the modern day version.

Those players still came through a center of excellence / youth teams and were developed within that. It's the same concept.

Centre of Excellence was a lot cheaper

 

[Borbokisfreekick]

The idea of the Academy was to produce our own players for the 1st team rather than signing players from other clubs. It hasnt worked since Maguire got into the 1st team in 2011 and especially because of the EPPP. You are probably not aware that quite a few of our best talent have moved to PL clubs for very little compensation in the last few years (we sold Mellis for £1M but this isnt going to happen again unless our Academy is in Category 1) because od the EPPP. THe PL Loves the EPPP so we are spending too much on the Academy.

Don't we currently have Long and Reed in the first team squad? With Kennedy, DCL and Kahn potentially close by.

Players moving onto PL clubs probably has a lot to do with us being in league 1, when and if we manage to move up a division we'll find it easier to keep hold of those players.

Which players have moved onto PL clubs in the last few years?

 

[Silent Blade]

Don't we currently have Long and Reed in the first team squad? With Kennedy, DCL and Kahn potentially close by.

None of the above are as good as Walker, Naughton and Maguire

 

[Silent Blade]

Which players have moved onto PL clubs in the last few years?

Just Maguire

 

[Silent Blade]

Nothing wrong with signing players at 15/16/17 and then developing them further to bring through.

I did say that we should keep our u21s. Having an Academy from 9 to 16 is a waste of time. Only Walker, Naughton and Maguire (and probably Long) have played at all ages. None since then

 

[BushBlade]

I did say that we should keep our u21s. Having an Academy from 9 to 16 is a waste of time. Only Walker, Naughton and Maguire (and probably Long) have played at all ages. None since then

Once again. How much does it cost to have an academy for ages 9-16?

 

[Silent Blade]

Once again. How much does it cost to have an academy for ages 9-16?

A lot!

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

Once again. How much does it cost to have an academy for ages 9-16?

Hopefully someone can provide some exact figures but given that the kids are at school all day, and there are limits on how much they can play and train I'd've thought you're paying for at most 3 or 4 hours a day, specifically directed at those age groups.

They do travel for games, but overall it'd be quite hard to spend very heavily wouldn't it?

 

[1888to1889]

Should McCabe sell Shirecliffe to the Wendys and shares with Sheffield FC in building a ground nearer the Lane ..
Also the Development squad seems to be just a waste of money because on the very rare occasion we have had some one good enough for the first team they are sold on,and the ones we keep seem to be just an excuse not to spend money...

Backward step

 

[alcoblade]

Center of excellence then, it's the same thing. The academy is just the modern day version.

Those players still came through a center of excellence / youth teams and were developed within that. It's the same concept.

It isn't. In order to maintain the status you have to meet various criteria that are very costly.

UTB

 

[Tezza1889]

Don't we currently have Long and Reed in the first team squad? With Kennedy, DCL and Kahn potentially close by.

Players moving onto PL clubs probably has a lot to do with us being in league 1, when and if we manage to move up a division we'll find it easier to keep hold of those players.

Which players have moved onto PL clubs in the last few years?

Yes we have those players coming through, especially dcl who looks to be a very good player........ If they turn out to b any good do you think we'll sell them or keep them for our first team?? We've sold our best in all divisions to the detriment of our team and the benefit of the bank balance...end of chat

 

[Borbokisfreekick]

Just Maguire

How wouldn't I be aware of us losing Maguire?!! You said I probably wasn't aware. Ha ha.

I thought you meant we had been losing loads of 15, 16 year olds to the PL clubs due to EPPP.

In terms of Maguire then that's expected. We're a league 1 club, if we produce a player that's worth 2.5milion plus, and he's deemed good enough for the top level then we're going to lose them. That 2.5 million will probably cover the cost of the academy for two years (unless you have some actual figures).

I think I remember seeing somewhere that it costs about 1 million a year to run just the academy, not including the up keep of he training ground etc.

It wouldn't be a bad idea to stop the academy between 9 and 11, and then partner with local youth teams like we've done with junior blades and used to do with middlewood rovers. The problem with that is your trusting coaches who may not have the qualifications to be coaching the kids. The key development years for technique are between 7-12 years, so that's probably why clubs are so keen to get the kids involved earlier with qualified coaches. It may also be a remit of EPPP to start at U9 - I don't know the details on that.

 

[Borbokisfreekick]

Yes we have those players coming through, especially dcl who looks to be a very good player........ If they turn out to b any good do you think we'll sell them or keep them for our first team?? We've sold our best in all divisions to the detriment of our team and the benefit of the bank balance...end of chat

Who knows. But producing those players is probably cheaper than going out and buying them.

show me a club outside the top 4 that aren't a selling club? I'm not saying I agree with it, but it happens. As I said previously, united a problem is that they probably sell too early and give in to too much player power.

 

[bladeinspaceandtime]

Centre of Excellence was a lot cheaper

It also appears that the Centre of Excellence/Reserves set up was at least as successful at bringing players through for the first team than the Academy set has been (for a lot less money). I'm not sure how that concept (if it had been carried on) would have been affected by the EPPP.

 

[Borbokisfreekick]

It isn't. In order to maintain the status you have to meet various criteria that are very costly.

UTB

Yes it is the same concept - the concept of developing young players through your own youth system.

I'm aware of the changes in regulations, and increased cost.

Personally I think it's worth the cost.

 

[Silent Blade]

Once again. How much does it cost to have an academy for ages 9-16?

Been talking to an Academy coach (doesnt work at SUFC). Coaches are paid at £35 per hour, he said Category 2 Academies receive roughly £1M in grant per season and he said that the grant "is very small" compared to the total cost of running an Academy per season (he thinks it is roughly £3M)

 

[Silent Blade]

How wouldn't I be aware of us losing Maguire?!! You said I probably wasn't aware. Ha ha.

I thought you meant we had been losing loads of 15, 16 year olds to the PL clubs due to EPPP.

In terms of Maguire then that's expected. We're a league 1 club, if we produce a player that's worth 2.5milion plus, and he's deemed good enough for the top level then we're going to lose them. That 2.5 million will probably cover the cost of the academy for two years (unless you have some actual figures).

I think I remember seeing somewhere that it costs about 1 million a year to run just the academy, not including the up keep of he training ground etc.

It wouldn't be a bad idea to stop the academy between 9 and 11, and then partner with local youth teams like we've done with junior blades and used to do with middlewood rovers. The problem with that is your trusting coaches who may not have the qualifications to be coaching the kids. The key development years for technique are between 7-12 years, so that's probably why clubs are so keen to get the kids involved earlier with qualified coaches. It may also be a remit of EPPP to start at U9 - I don't know the details on that.

Misunderstood your question. I have been told that both Sheffield clubs have had to allow some of their promising youngsters to PL clubs (dont know the figure but it has increased a lot since EPPP came into force). I know a Wendy player who has just signed a pro contract, he was at Wendy since he was 13 but when he was 15, Wendy had to allow him have a trial at Man U but Man U didnt keep him on. I am sure if Man U thought he was worth a maximum of £125,000 after 5 years then they would have signed him

 

[BushBlade]

Been talking to an Academy coach (doesnt work at SUFC). Coaches are paid at £35 per hour, he said Category 2 Academies receive roughly £1M in grant per season and he said that the grant "is very small" compared to the total cost of running an Academy per season (he thinks it is roughly £3M)

Seems quite costly.

 

[Silent Blade]

Backward step

Since having started the academy in 2001 the club have been in a backward step for the last 5 seasons!

 

[BushBlade]

Seems quite costly.

Perhaps someone should ask Jim? Not me though, I don't do twatter.

 

[alcoblade]

Yes it is the same concept - the concept of developing young players through your own youth system.

I'm aware of the changes in regulations, and increased cost.

Personally I think it's worth the cost.

How much does it cost then?

UTB