Interview With Collins

[WhiteHawk]

I thought that was a pretty clear swipe at the media, who didn't really press Clough to really go into the reasons.

This is exactly what I thought. They did ask the question a couple of times but didn't really challenge Clough on it

 

[WhiteHawk]

Yes he seems genuine but most footballers trot out the same kind of rubbish week in week out (Alan Smith serial badge kisser comes to mind).

Most footballers don't get so emotional they shed a few tears though like Doyle & Collins.

 

[metalblade]

Most footballers don't get so emotional they shed a few tears though like Doyle & Collins.

You'd ruwer if you looked like losing a job paying what they were on

 

[Kev Gee]

I don't really care about his 'commitment'.

I only care about his ability on the football pitch.

Shouldn't that be the only factor we consider?

 

[Pollingtonblade]

I don't really care about his 'commitment'.

I only care about his ability on the football pitch.

Shouldn't that be the only factor we consider?

Yes, yes it should.

 

[BushBlade]

I don't really care about his 'commitment'.

I only care about his ability on the football pitch.

Shouldn't that be the only factor we consider?

Both. I don't want good players who don't give a shit.

 

[1889]

People have short memories. Collins is a shit centre half, he had one good season next to a good centre half. If he was any good he would have played more last year, Clough effectively said he'd dropped him for being shit.

I don't have any issue with Clough dropping Collins because he couldn't defend , but I have a massive issue with him because he neglected to replace him with some one who could, whilst wasting money and wages on an abundance of midfielders?

Consequently Collins is still in the frame, lets be honest, I'm sure Captain Blade loves and is passionate about the club, but I don't want him at centre half either.

The sad thing about all this is, that it seems Adkins can't see whats as plain as the nose on his face either. We should have had two new central defenders in place before pre season and hit the ground running, now I sense we will need a period of settling in and rebuilding that will doubtless cost us valuable points and 'moving forward', promotion to the Championship

 

[Elsecar_Blade]

This the same Maguire that's hardly played since he left us, gifted Accrington a goal last night and missed a penalty?

Just asking like ;-)

The same could be said about Collins. Hardly played since a couple of months after Maguire left us, gifted Gillingham goals on Saturday and, well ok, he didn't miss a penalty last night did he? However, the big difference is that Maguire is failing to play for a Premier League team whereas Collins was failing to play for a League 1 team.

It's lovely that Collins likes SUFC, I actually do like him as a professional and I think he did help Maguire a lot in their time together. They had a good partnership that was excellent for League 1 but it wasn't because they were two excellent League 1 defenders; they were a mediocre League 1 defender and a young defender who was Championship/Premier League standard pretty quickly. The point I'm making, and many appear to agree, is that we can't start giving Collins more playing time simply because he loves the club. We did that with Doyle when we needed much better in that position - the lack of cover he gave our defence last season was appalling but nobody seemed to call him out on it because he was a good guy who cared about the club and took the piss out of the Shammers.

I'd love Collins to be a dominant central defender this season and lead us to promotion but I cannot see it happening at all. David Edgar is a start but we need a partner for him so that Collins - and McEvely - become the backup options for us.

 

[Bladesman]

Whilst it is nice to hear that Collins cares about SUFC so much, I would suggest that people take this with a degree of common sense. What do you honestly expect him to say? At the bare minimum, I expect the players to give everything they have and to care about the result so I'm not going to get over-emotional about Collins' words just like I didn't when Doyle gave a very emotional interview post-Charlton. However, as much as Collins probably doesn't like it, the facts are that we were relegated with him in the team (with Doyle), he has been here for four League 1 seasons where we have inexplicably failed to be promoted (with Doyle) and - as many suspected - the excellent defensive records we have had with Collins in the team went up in smoke when a certain Harry Maguire was sold. For 2/3 seasons, Harry was, in my opinion, carrying Collins who I rate as a mediocre League 1 defender and have done since the relegation. He struck gold with Maguire at his side and their partnership was good but Collins' defensive abilities were over-exaggerated last season when he fell out with Clough and wasn't playing. His last two away games for SUFC were 5 and 3-goal defeats to Swindon and Chesterfield which does tell a story. Also, when he left on loan, where did he end up? Smack bang in the middle of the division at Port Vale.

For this season, I still don't think he is good enough. Some were blinded by Doyle's interview and Cockney baiting when it was painfully obvious that he was a massive part of the problem at BDTBL last season. We cannot make the same mistake with Collins here. An option as a backup defender, no problem. He is not a first choice central defender for a promotion team though however many nice things he says about us.

You are right to a degree.

You can't fault the passion he shows for the club in the interview but maybe he thought because he was part of the furniture he could not be replaced. Hence why everything seemed to escalate when Butler arrived.

 

[Blade]

I like the interview, it's good to see he does care. I think he's past his best and that wasn't good enough for where we want to be.

One thing I'd say which shouldn't be forgotten is how frustrating it must have been for Collins to have Clough sign Mcarthy the day before the Chesterfield game. Yes we then conceded another 3 goals but played an hour with 10 men and Collins scored in the last few minutes. Following that Collins is bombed out and Mcarthy plays in his place despite not making it up during the week for training and tactic sessions. I know that would piss me off incredibly.

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

I like the interview, it's good to see he does care. I think he's past his best and that wasn't good enough for where we want to be.

One thing I'd say which shouldn't be forgotten is how frustrating it must have been for Collins to have Clough sign Mcarthy the day before the Chesterfield game. Yes we then conceded another 3 goals but played an hour with 10 men and Collins scored in the last few minutes. Following that Collins is bombed out and Mcarthy plays in his place despite not making it up during the week for training and tactic sessions. I know that would piss me off incredibly.

His interview was honest up to a point and refreshing . Good luck to the guy . Hoever it does not get over the fact , that IMO , he is not good enough for inclusion in a automatic promotion chasing side.

UTB

 

[Fiery Blade]

There are many on this site that would run through brick walls to play for United, but there not good enough either !

 

[Fulwood Blade]

His interview was honest up to a point and refreshing . Good luck to the guy . Hoever it does not get over the fact , that IMO , he is not good enough for inclusion in a automatic promotion chasing side.

UTB

no place for sentiment in football - 5th year in division 1.
and i'll probably get in trouble for this - I think there will be at least a 6th season.
we, quite simply do not have the players who work hard enough and their skill level is just not good enough to counteract the lack of work ethic. Gillingham showed that.
Just have to hope NA can change the style sufficient and quickly to get us out

UTB

 

[AlienBlade]

There's a lot of speculation in there. One point - you said he stole a wage by refusing to go on loan? How? He has a choice presumably?

Everything is speculation BOSS, as no-one knows what went off, I simply like to give an alternate view which is also plausable, (I dont buy for one moment that he wasnt told why he had been dropped, considering Clough has said on numerous occassions why he was dropped, he clearly just doesnt want to admit to maybe the way he also handled the situation)

I was using the term "stole a wage" as this was what was referred to before, the fact is, rather than sitting on his arse he could have moved on albeit on a temporary basis (his own interview actually refers to the fact he could have moved out and had numerous oppotunities to do so but chose not to) therefore knowing he wouldnt be playing and refusing to go out on loan he was basically getting paid for doing nothing.... so I guess that was exactly what he was doing.... So I guess that is less specualtion more actual fact (well if you beleive the what comes from the horses mouth that is )

 

[AlienBlade]

fair enough can't argue with most of that. I'm not one of those who didn't like Clough as such, certainly not in the first season when I kept an open mind and backed him even though I was skeptical about his track record in management . It was obvious summat had gone down in the close season though with collins and doyle on the bench against bristol.

Re. "I dont know how things work at your place" - it's great, I took a redundancy/early retirement deal 2 years ago so I don't have to suffer that shit any more

I also prefer to keep an open mind (what does annoy me is that people will state Adkins is far better, however from what I have seen I have seem a remarkable simularity in what he has done including just now stating he will be using the "squad" due to the fixtures being tuesday/saturday (when clough said this he was swapping and changing and everyone was up in arms.... yet when adkins does it, it passes unmentioned under the radar...

I do agree something went off, but I think it was probably less cataclismic than people say, it may have just been that he didnt rate them and thought the players he was brining in way better (I mean the vast majority never rated Doyle or Collins, but when Clough dropped them all their previous haters turned them into martyrs...) Doyle clearly just got on with it, but the llikes of Collins and probably Butler didnt like it.

maybe I am being too cynical of our fans.. maybe he is being given the benefit of the doubt.... but it does worry me that all the very good points which people made about Cloughs failings are re-occurring unabated under Adkins...

and there is always a downside to retirement.... it means spending more time at home with him/her indoors and lets face it sometimes the bosses at work are fall more lenient than the bosses at home hahaha

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I find it frustrating that so many people trot out lines like "he's suddendly seen as a wold-beater becaue Clough isn't playing him".

I don't think there are many at all that said that about Collins. My view, and I think one that is shared by a fair few is that Collins is an average League 1 centre back. In a back 4 of Brayford, Maguire, Collins and Harris, he was probably perceived as the weakest player there so his was a position where you would say we might improve. I think many blades saw both him and Doyle as players to be improved upon in the summer of 2014.

I, and I suspect many others also though Collins was very poor for us in the championship but somewhat found his level in League 1 where he has in the most part looked OK (no more, no less).

However, it seems perfectly logical than an average/OK league 1 centre half (Standing at about 6"2) is a better option to play centre half in a team lacking physical prowess than playing a mediocre left back who is only just six foot with a mediocre right back who is about 5"9 when they have never played as a centre back pairing together.

Clough deserved criticism for keeping up the pretence that Collins was out of the squad for footballing reasons when that clearly made no sense when we lost the likes of Kennedy and Brayford. That doesn't make Collins any better than the average League 1 centre half he's always been.

Alien. I acknowleddge what you say about the Clough criticisims being true of Adkins. I think it's too early to say whether that is a problem or not yet though. Adkins inherited a huge squad so it makes sense to use it to some degree. Clough said he wanted a small squad then assembled a huge one. Re signing his old mates, again, time will tell. Nobody complaied about Clough's old pals act when it saw Brayford join the club but people did object to the likes of McEveley and Coutts becuase they were poor for a lot of the games they played. If Woolford's performances don't improve and NA persists with him, I can see him coming in for plenty of stick. If he and Sharp do well, there will be no objections.

 

[BornOnShorehamStreet]

Everything is speculation BOSS, as no-one knows what went off, I simply like to give an alternate view which is also plausable, (I dont buy for one moment that he wasnt told why he had been dropped, considering Clough has said on numerous occassions why he was dropped, he clearly just doesnt want to admit to maybe the way he also handled the situation)

I was using the term "stole a wage" as this was what was referred to before, the fact is, rather than sitting on his arse he could have moved on albeit on a temporary basis (his own interview actually refers to the fact he could have moved out and had numerous oppotunities to do so but chose not to) therefore knowing he wouldnt be playing and refusing to go out on loan he was basically getting paid for doing nothing.... so I guess that was exactly what he was doing.... So I guess that is less specualtion more actual fact (well if you beleive the what comes from the horses mouth that is )

That's fair enough but didn't he also say he wanted to try to claim back a shirt? I think the passion and commitment he has shown recently suggests that he really does love the club and is desperate to play for us.

 

[Bartleby]

maybe I am being too cynical of our fans.. maybe he is being given the benefit of the doubt.... but it does worry me that all the very good points which people made about Cloughs failings are re-occurring unabated under Adkins...

If they do re-occur then, given the very different track records of the two managers, I'd have to start wondering if interference from above was playing a part.

 

[AlienBlade]

That's fair enough but didn't he also say he wanted to try to claim back a shirt? I think the passion and commitment he has shown recently suggests that he really does love the club and is desperate to play for us.

but sitting kicking his heels neither helped the club nor himself, it stopped the club from using the saving his wages might have made and prevented him from being "fit" it was fairly obvious he wasnt going to get in and had no intention of going to speak to clough wanting others to speak to clough instead (as per his interview) so how was he going to get in the side if he wasnt prepared to speak to the manager about whatever was going off.

in football players are often dropped for playing poorly (being in a side that had conceded 5 to Swindon, 3 to Chesterfield and 2 to Gillingham you could argue he fitted the bill along with others...) however maybe they banged on the managers door and showed some commitment to the cause rather than simply wallowing in self pity wondering why he wasnt getting picked (if he truely didnt know... surely the first thing you would do is ask the man picking the team... I've played football for long enough and when I've not been picked I've generally asked why.

 

[AlienBlade]

If they do re-occur then, given the very different track records of the two managers, I'd have to start wondering if interference from above was playing a part.

well as McCabe has quite clearly taken a back seat, if there is interference it will be with the Prince and Phipps, (although I doubt they would interfere in that way) the other way to look at it is those below... i.e. the players.. who simply cannot play a certain way...

will be interesting to see how many changes are made for Saturday...

 

[DronnieBlade]

Yes.

The passion and sentiment in the interview is good to see.

But do others see this as I do, a bit of an impassioned plea to give him a run in the side, especially given the timing of the Edgar signing ?

He isn't the worst CB in L1. But, bluntly, there are many better ones !!

UTB

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

a bit of an impassioned plea to give him a run in the side, especially given the timing of the Edgar signing ?

Isn't that kind of the point: competition for places?

If it means that much to Collins then he will up his game.

Fwiw I thought he played (relatively) well at Gillingham - at any rate he was one of the players who was not off the pace.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

I find it frustrating that so many people trot out lines like "he's suddendly seen as a wold-beater becaue Clough isn't playing him".

But for some posts this was undoubtedly true last season: Collins the player and Collins of the forum were two totally different players.

This was taken to absurd lengths with DDG. In reality he was on loan in Division 4, not scoring, and getting dropped to the bench but on the forum was a proven goalscorer linked with Juve just waiting to bag hatfuls of goals.

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

no place for sentiment in football - 5th year in division 1.
and i'll probably get in trouble for this - I think there will be at least a 6th season.
we, quite simply do not have the players who work hard enough and their skill level is just not good enough to counteract the lack of work ethic. Gillingham showed that.
Just have to hope NA can change the style sufficient and quickly to get us out

UTB

My view is that the push for automatic promotion will be 2016 / 17 not this season. We have too much of a mis mash , unbalanced squad to be a real threat , and the thought / hope that Adkins could pull a rabbit out of the bag , by upping a players game , just will not happen . We will get players fitter , but IMO its the mental / skill side of things that will not be improved . May be totally wrong.

I have also a gut feeling that Adkins will sooner rather than later , could take a role as Director of Football , with a coach being brought in , if we a off the front runners around christmas .

We are moving with the times but always we are behind the ball. Prince and co , will change this.

UTB