Individual quality

[Slim Man]

That's why we're sitting where we are in the league.

Very little tactical flexibility and zilch in terms of managerial outclassing (hence the record against the teams in the top 8)
Little to no attacking patterns
No control of most games, attacking for 5 mins and sitting back
Treating the ball like a hot potato

If we go up, which is still a huge ask, we will be fucking destroyed unless Wilder accepts his faults in this regard. He needs to bring another couple of coaches in, because against any press or decent quick team we fall to fucking pieces. And the prem is full of them.
Even if we spend big this will happen if things stay the same.

Props to Chris so far as we are indeed higher than I expected, but he has to accept his limitations and recognise where we're lacking. We made Leeds look like a champions league winning team twice, then they drew at home to WBA and lost at Pompey for example.

If he doesn't accept these issues are indeed problems and does his bit of self reflection to fix them, he'll be out on his arse before Christmas.

"But we're top of the league wah wah wah" - ok, that's not the point I'm making at all.

 

[William Carey]

That's why we're sitting where we are in the league.

Very little tactical flexibility and zilch in terms of managerial outclassing (hence the record against the teams in the top 8)

You do realise we are top of the league right? So very little tactical flexibility is why we are 1st? I mean fair enough mate.

Jokes aside I do agree with your point, Wilder’s clueless in terms of subs and tactics against teams that have bits of quality about them, shits the bed and goes defensive until we conceed.

 

[Jimmy Fleck]

Whatever happens this season, he needs to go. We’d get murdered in the prem and will lose our best players if we stay down, these lucky 1-0s won’t happen anymore. Garbage. What do they do in training?

 

[Slim Man]

What do they do in training?

Sleep.

 

[knowsnowt]

Wilder is a shithead.
The sooner he's gone the better.

 

[Slim Man]

Wilder is a shithead.
The sooner he's gone the better.

Well

 

[Chimpan-A]

You do realise we are top of the league right? So very little tactical flexibility is why we are 1st? I mean fair enough mate.

Jokes aside I do agree with your point, Wilder’s clueless in terms of subs and tactics against teams that have bits of quality about them, shits the bed and goes defensive until we conceed.

This idea that Wilder is tactically clueless is bandied about a lot, but is he, really? Can you manage at the level he is doing and has done, and have no idea what you are doing? All this from a load of self-proclaimed experts sitting in the stands who do other things than football for a living.
Surely there is an argument that his tactics have worked incredibly well this season, and just because we don’t like it, doesn’t make it less effective.

 

[AWetFlannel]

Yeah he's shit compared to Farke, Parker, Le Bris, Kompany, McKenna, Martin, Hecky, Warnock, Jokanovic etc.

If we had one of those, things would be so much better this season and next season in the PL. We will inevitably get promoted (even with a shite manager) but we'll definitely be shit under Wilder compared to those others.

 

[Slim Man]

Yeah he's shit compared to Farke, Parker, Le Bris, Kompany, McKenna, Martin, Hecky, Warnock, Jokanovic etc.

If we had one of those, things would be so much better this season and next season in the PL. We will inevitably get promoted (even with a shite manager) but we'll definitely be shit under Wilder compared to those others.

Not like you to be so very hyperbolic and not understand the point of the post

 

[AWetFlannel]

Not like you to be so very hyperbolic and not understand the point of the post

He's shit tactically seemed to be the point. God knows what it was if not.

 

[Slim Man]

He's shit tactically seemed to be the point. God knows what it was if not.

Very little tactical flexibility (aside from changing to a back 5 sometimes)
And head to head with the managers around him, he's come off worse every time with the exception of Sunderland at home which was a freak game

He can't be completely shit tactically or we wouldn't be where we are

Can you name one game, bar Luton away, where we've changed our tactics mid game?

 

[AWetFlannel]

Very little tactical flexibility (aside from changing to a back 5 sometimes)
And head to head with the managers around him, he's come off worse every time with the exception of Sunderland at home which was a freak game

He can't be completely shit tactically or we wouldn't be where we are

Can you name one game, bar Luton away, where we've changed our tactics mid game?

We've changed our tactics in plenty of games, which isn't confined to formation.

But I'm not even debating that, you said I missed the point and I didn't. He's not shit tactically, you're saying, but he's not as good as the other managers around him. Tell me you would rather Parker or Farke as manager then.

 

[Sheffsteel]

That's why we're sitting where we are in the league.

Very little tactical flexibility and zilch in terms of managerial outclassing (hence the record against the teams in the top 8)
Little to no attacking patterns
No control of most games, attacking for 5 mins and sitting back
Treating the ball like a hot potato

If we go up, which is still a huge ask, we will be fucking destroyed unless Wilder accepts his faults in this regard. He needs to bring another couple of coaches in, because against any press or decent quick team we fall to fucking pieces. And the prem is full of them.
Even if we spend big this will happen if things stay the same.

Props to Chris so far as we are indeed higher than I expected, but he has to accept his limitations and recognise where we're lacking. We made Leeds look like a champions league winning team twice, then they drew at home to WBA and lost at Pompey for example.

If he doesn't accept these issues are indeed problems and does his bit of self reflection to fix them, he'll be out on his arse before Christmas.

"But we're top of the league wah wah wah" - ok, that's not the point I'm making at all.

I’m a big fan of Chris Wilder and think of myself as fair and balanced.

It is strange…..I always felt that apart from Duffy and McGoldrick the team that went on the promotion run from league 1 to the PL lacked individual quality
but the players were so well drilled playing as “a team”, that we so often overcame the opposition team that had better individual players.
Also going back a few years Wilder used to play the same players over and over, with few changes.

However this season we’ve been the opposite, we don’t look like a well drilled team….with several players not forming an understanding with their team mates.
Last night Peck- Hamza combo looked poor, Sereki- Rak Sakyi combo was laughably bad, Robinson- Ahmedhodzic combo still doesn’t work.
We also regularly have players playing out of position and lots of team changes every match.

We regularly have long spells where I’m not sure what our style of play is or what our tactics are.
What makes it worse is that the team are obviously very capable because last night we had a 15 minute spell once Hamer came on where we looked superb.
It’s been a general theme all season that for the last 20 minutes of every match we sit back…park the bus and boot the ball away anywhere.
If this is a tactic then it’s asking for trouble. In the latter stages of matches….our players can’t keep possession and we look so poor on the ball. Why?

Appreciate that based on chance creation a draw was a fair result
However based on general play….Bristol City looked much better than us, a more of a well drilled team…much more comfortable with the ball like they’d been coached. Where as we look as though we have players who just met each other last week….and are waiting for instructions/ to be coached.

Our 1st goal last night was a top quality goal by Campbell. A few of us on the Kop were laughing….saying how we can be playing so poorly
....but we have such high quality individual who can score goals from nothing…..this gives us a big advantage but I am having doubts why we can’t keep simple possession allowing the opposition to come at us….this doesn’t bode well if we reach the Premier league.

 

[Slim Man]

We've changed our tactics in plenty of games, which isn't confined to formation.

But I'm not even debating that, you said I missed the point and I didn't. He's not shit tactically, you're saying, but he's not as good as the other managers around him. Tell me you would rather Parker or Farke as manager then.

His record v the 2 of them is 0-3, with a 1-7 scoreline.

I don't like Scott Parker but he well and truly had his number.

I'd prefer Farke yes. Annoying voice but much more exciting football. The only reason they aren't top by miles is they have a keeper who throws it in his own net.

 

[AWetFlannel]

His record v the 2 of them is 0-3, with a 1-7 scoreline.

I don't like Scott Parker but he well and truly had his number.

I'd prefer Farke yes. Annoying voice but much more exciting football. The only reason they aren't top by miles is they have a keeper who throws it in his own net.

The same Farke who rocked up at Bramall Lane late and time wasted from the first minute with a freshly relegated Norwich against our newly promoted, injury hit side. A classy operator to be sure.

But I'll agree, he's a fantastic manager with a brilliant record at this level and his Leeds team this season are the best in the league. You blame the keeper, but they have another keeper on the bench who is fine for this level and he won't play him. His record in the PL is worse than Wilder's, his teams never seem to even put up a fight before relegation.

Despite having a better record against us this season, those managers have worse records against other teams. Do tactics not count in those games, or does that not suggest a flaw in their tactics? I'd argue they have better individual players and a stronger squad than us, so that can't be the reason.

 

[Slim Man]

The same Farke who rocked up at Bramall Lane late and time wasted from the first minute with a freshly relegated Norwich against our newly promoted, injury hit side. A classy operator to be sure.

But I'll agree, he's a fantastic manager with a brilliant record at this level and his Leeds team this season are the best in the league. You blame the keeper, but they have another keeper on the bench who is fine for this level and he won't play him. His record in the PL is worse than Wilder's, his teams never seem to even put up a fight before relegation.

Despite having a better record against us this season, those managers have worse records against other teams. Do tactics not count in those games, or does that not suggest a flaw in their tactics? I'd argue they have better individual players and a stronger squad than us, so that can't be the reason.

I think neither Farke nor Wilder are the answer upon promotion. You can't immediately sack them, that would be ridiculous, but you can't let them outstay their welcome upon a bad run of form and 'stay loyal' to them. The owners have to have a plan in their head and a few targets in mind, even now.

If we go up, and we end up playing like this we're going to get battered again. That much can't surely be an argument?

 

[AWetFlannel]

If we go up, and we end up playing like this we're going to get battered again. That much can't surely be an argument?

I assume Burnley fans were saying the opposite when they got 100 points under Kompany playing expansive football: "if we keep playing like this we'll finish mid table". That didn't work out, did it...

It's a completely different challenge in a completely different league, of course we'd get battered playing like this, just like every other Championship club would if they kept playing the same way throughout recent history.

Getting promotion would be a huge achievement yet we talk about it like it's a given. We never talked about getting battered the season after when we got promoted under Wilder the first time, we worried about that later. IF we go up, the owners and management will have a plan which they try to implement. Who on earth would suggest we keep doing the same thing?

 

[Berkshire Blade]

I guess nobody noticed the changes we made that meant Bristol City weren't dominating the ball ( if not the threat we had) first half

 

[cahill]

That's why we're sitting where we are in the league.

Very little tactical flexibility and zilch in terms of managerial outclassing (hence the record against the teams in the top 8)
Little to no attacking patterns
No control of most games, attacking for 5 mins and sitting back
Treating the ball like a hot potato

If we go up, which is still a huge ask, we will be fucking destroyed unless Wilder accepts his faults in this regard. He needs to bring another couple of coaches in, because against any press or decent quick team we fall to fucking pieces. And the prem is full of them.
Even if we spend big this will happen if things stay the same.

Props to Chris so far as we are indeed higher than I expected, but he has to accept his limitations and recognise where we're lacking. We made Leeds look like a champions league winning team twice, then they drew at home to WBA and lost at Pompey for example.

If he doesn't accept these issues are indeed problems and does his bit of self reflection to fix them, he'll be out on his arse before Christmas.

"But we're top of the league wah wah wah" - ok, that's not the point I'm making at all.

Reflects my thoughts entirely. Does CWAK recognise this ? I’m sure he’s a good man manager but does he have the tactical acumen to change things ?

 

[Slim Man]

I guess nobody noticed the changes we made that meant Bristol City weren't dominating the ball ( if not the threat we had) first half

So why did we not continue that? Choudhury was playing 3rd centre half with Peck in a 1 man midfield at one bit

 

[Slim Man]

Reflects my thoughts entirely. Does CWAK recognise this ? I’m sure he’s a good man manager but does he have the tactical acumen to change things ?

No. But he never was, that was Knill.

I worry that Knill may not be the same innovate tactician of that time. As evidenced by our lack of creativity from set pieces most of all for me.

 

[cahill]

No. But he never was, that was Knill.

I worry that Knill may not be the same innovate tactician of that time. As evidenced by our lack of creativity from set pieces most of all for me.

We don’t do anything creative at set pieces do we

 

[Nick Jansky]

We don’t do anything creative at set pieces do we

We did try one short corner last night but were let down by Burrows failing to understand he needed to take a couple of steps to avoid being offside when receiving the ball back from O’Hare. Schoolboy stuff.

 

[loveWalrusDaveTheBlade]

We don’t do anything creative at set pieces do we

Just the nine goals from set pieces this season, same as Leeds.

 

[s20Blade]

Definitely some lazy coaching going on. Surely with the pool of players we have now and individual quality there is a system that can he created where we can win games much more comfortably like Leeds do?

 

[Nick Jansky]

Definitely some lazy coaching going on. Surely with the pool of players we have now and individual quality there is a system that can he created where we can win games much more comfortably like Leeds do?

There will be, but the players would need to be fitter & more robust.

 

[Slim Man]

There will be, but the players would need to be fitter & more robust.

The difference in now to when he was here last time is alarming