Imaginative new transfer system shock.

[jezzablade]

http://www.thestar.co.uk/sport/shef...es-want-fresh-approach-to-transfers-1-5693462

McCabe at the Handsworth meeting or maybe it was the football chairman. Stated that we have to bring the academy kids through but if there are any exceptional ones, he quoted the Kyles, they would probably leave. If this is the "imaginative" system that a potential manager is to work with how do we get promoted with the non-exception kids from the academy?
It doesn't stack up to me or am I missing something?

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

Simple really. For every Walker we get he thinks we'll produce 3 MacFadzeans good enough to get out of league 1.

 

[jezzablade]

Simple really. For every Walker we get he thinks we'll produce 3 MacFadzeans good enough to get out of league 1.

But they are not good enough thats the point. They are average for this league with no experience. If they are better than that they go. Do you think McGuire will be with us next season for the full season? But Terry Kennedy will be with us until he is as good as McGuire and then he leaves so we can't get up the league 'cos we can only keep the players that others don't want thats what his statement essentially means.

 

[JohnDenver]

The idea is to try and concentrate on bringing in the best people available rather than the most expensive in terms of fees or the biggest names

Maybe I need to check with Walthy about the economic theory involved here. But unless we have unique knowledge of the market (and recent history suggests the opposite), the best people will most likely be the most expensive.

So in non-bullshit speak, what he's saying is we need to buy even cheaper than before. Apparently that's "imaginative".

Good lord....

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

But they are not good enough thats the point. They are average for this league with no experience. If they are better than that they go. Do you think McGuire will be with us next season for the full season? But Terry Kennedy will be with us until he is as good as McGuire and then he leaves so we can't get up the league 'cos we can only keep the players that others don't want thats what his statement essentially means.

O I realise the folly of it, Maybe the flippant wasn't so obvious in my post

To get up needs a sprinkling of experience at this level, decent kids and a little something different. Maguire may go, as may Long and I have no doubt when fit, Di Girolamo will follow. The worry is the board thinking a team of kids can do it.

 

[Living In a Fantasy World]

“The idea is to try and concentrate on bringing in the best people available rather than the most expensive in terms of fees or the biggest names,”
Well finding these unsung heroes is not a easy task for managers. Wilson got in Miller which seemed to be a gem, Phillips and Blackman, so to be fair the guy we axed already showed this quality. (ignoring the other lousy signings)
Is McCall the guy to find these heros? has any-other of the candidates brought in a outstanding performer?
Big asks really from the board, hows our scouting set up?

 

[Bladesway]

Simple really. For every Walker we get he thinks we'll produce 3 MacFadzeans good enough to get out of league 1.

Please don't tickle me that hurts.

 

[Bergen Blade]

Maybe I need to check with Walthy about the economic theory involved here. But unless we have unique knowledge of the market (and recent history suggests the opposite), the best people will most likely be the most expensive.

So in non-bullshit speak, what he's saying is we need to buy even cheaper than before. Apparently that's "imaginative".

Good lord....

We can make it our policy to look for potential. I.e. more Millers and Blackmans, fewer Robsons and Kitsons. Lets look for players who will be better in 2014/15 than 2012/13, let alone 2006/07.

 

[StarBlade]

It's all very well buying players with potential, as long as you accept that perhaps 70% of those never reach that potential and you may have to move back 4 spaces to move forward 5.

All I can read into that is that we'll be buying cheap, and buying twice.

 

[Jonboy60]

I agree that some of the players we have at times look like Sunday league standard, but collectively ( ignoring Doyle, I would never include him in any collective),actually finished in the play-offs. In his first season Wilson,barring the catastrophe that was 'ched',in any normal season would have got us promoted. With a bit of tweaking and nous he produced a team that played some good football. Unfortunately in his second season he lost the plot, players out of position, bad loanees, bad substitutions at the wrong Time, or none at all. The point I'm trying to make is that this team got us to the play-offs, proving what a shit league it is. The new manager with a bit of tweaking and nous can go one better than Wilson without having to spend money( or very little) and win this league. I do not believe that a bunch of players can go from promotion in any normal season one year, and turn into absolute dross the next. For that I blame the manager. The next one can turn this shower around, UTB

 

[CG Blade]

I agree that some of the players we have at times look like Sunday league standard, but collectively ( ignoring Doyle, I would never include him in any collective),actually finished in the play-offs. In his first season Wilson,barring the catastrophe that was 'ched',in any normal season would have got us promoted. With a bit of tweaking and nous he produced a team that played some good football. Unfortunately in his second season he lost the plot, players out of position, bad loanees, bad substitutions at the wrong Time, or none at all. The point I'm trying to make is that this team got us to the play-offs, proving what a shit league it is. The new manager with a bit of tweaking and nous can go one better than Wilson without having to spend money( or very little) and win this league. I do not believe that a bunch of players can go from promotion in any normal season one year, and turn into absolute dross the next. For that I blame the manager. The next one can turn this shower around, UTB

Problem with this is that we lost our best players after Wilson's first season, and he couldn't get the same quality in for his second season. The new manager may have the same problems, if Mcquire and Long, do go, he has to get players of the same quality at a cheaper price, that is a big ask. We don't know yet whether the younger academy players can step up, only time will tell that. Miller and Di Girolamo, at the moment we don't know fully when they will be back, or whether after the serious injuries they will be the same player.
McCabe will want us out of this division next season, but will he support the new manager to the extent he needs to.....

 

[Jonboy60]

Here what your saying CG,but if united get the right man in I don't think long or maguire will go. Think about it, maguire at best,top half championship player, at the moment. Long under study to an average premier league teams goalie. If the new man gets off to a good start they may well both be in the championship next season anyway. And no I don't think mcCabe will back the new manager with cash, but the new man will know that when he comes in anyway.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

"Nicky Law and Darren Randolph have played their final games for Motherwell, while James McFadden, Tom Hateley and Chris Humphrey are all out of contract and expected to go elsewhere".

If we get McCall I expect our imaginative new transfer policy could start by him bringing these five players with him. Without knowing much about the indivdual players, that may be not such a bad thing.
They're all available on free transfers. They should all fit into our wage structure.
Along with Murphy, we could without much difficulty recruit over half of a succesful team and their manager.
They should already have a good understanding and team spirit. It may be a recipe for instant success?

 

[Jonboy60]

Good call sothall. But why are they leaving. Not good enough to be offered new contracts, Motherwell can't afford to keep them or simply think their better than what they really are.

 

[Darren]

"Nicky Law and Darren Randolph have played their final games for Motherwell, while James McFadden, Tom Hateley and Chris Humphrey are all out of contract and expected to go elsewhere".

If we get McCall I expect our imaginative new transfer policy could start by him bringing these five players with him. Without knowing much about the indivdual players, that may be not such a bad thing.
They're all available on free transfers. They should all fit into our wage structure.
Along with Murphy, we could without much difficulty recruit over half of a succesful team and their manager.
They should already have a good understanding and team spirit. It may be a recipe for instant success?

The only problem with that theory is that Murphy was apparently a stand out player in the second best team in Scotland, yet hardly pulled up in any trees in the English third division.

I have little faith that other Motherwell players will be any better than him.

 

[Jonboy60]

Not advocating bringing all the Motherwell players to the lane, but regards murphy he wasn't the worst player last season, and I think we saw enough to think he'll be better this season.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Good call sothall. But why are they leaving. Not good enough to be offered new contracts, Motherwell can't afford to keep them or simply think their better than what they really are.

There is one man who knows and he might be our next manager.

Is that a plan coming together?

 

[Jonboy60]

A cunning plan, Baldrick.

 

[Ted Danson]

The only problem with that theory is that Murphy was apparently a stand out player in the second best team in Scotland, yet hardly pulled up in any trees in the English third division.

I have little faith that other Motherwell players will be any better than him.

It might be that Wilson wasnt playing to his strengths though and McCall should already know how to get the best out of him

 

[Bergen Blade]

It's all very well buying players with potential, as long as you accept that perhaps 70% of those never reach that potential and you may have to move back 4 spaces to move forward 5.

All I can read into that is that we'll be buying cheap, and buying twice.

It'll be a good start if we look for players with vital attributes that won't restrict them in their position, even at a higher level.

If we want a wide man who is quick and good at taking people on, we don't sign Ryan Flynn. If we want a right back who is full of energy and bombs up and down the wing, we don't sign Tony McMahon or Matt Hill. If we want a defensive midfielder who adds height, strength and athleticism we don't sign Michael Doyle.

The new manager must come in and define these criteria for each position and start building his ideal side within the setup he prefers.

Then we must accept that a player may come with limitations that we may have to address by looking for players (in nearby positions) that will complement him. For example if we find a flying right winger, we may be better off with a steady eddie at right back after all. If we sign a young, poor man's David Beckham at right midfield, he may need an attacking, overlapping type instead. Either should preferably have the potential to fulfill that role at a higher level though.

 

[Grecian2000]

It'll be a good start if we look for players with vital attributes that won't restrict them in their position, even at a higher level.

If we want a wide man who is quick and good at taking people on, we don't sign Ryan Flynn. If we want a right back who is full of energy and bombs up and down the wing, we don't sign Tony McMahon or Matt Hill. If we want a defensive midfielder who adds height, strength and athleticism we don't sign Michael Doyle.

The new manager must come in and define these criteria for each position and start building his ideal side within the setup he prefers.

Then we must accept that a player may come with limitations that we may have to address by looking for players (in nearby positions) that will complement him. For example if we find a flying right winger, we may be better off with a steady eddie at right back after all. If we sign a young, poor man's David Beckham at right midfield, he may need an attacking, overlapping type instead. Either should preferably have the potential to fulfill that role at a higher level though.

Excellent theory Bergs, sadly not consistent with our current policy.

We are the football equivalent of the "Primark effect". We buy players (I use the term "buy" to cover any incoming player) because they are cheap and we can afford them and NOT because they are part of a structured team building. The manager then has mould what he's got into some sort of cohesive unit.

 

[broomhillblade]

Maybe I need to check with Walthy about the economic theory involved here. But unless we have unique knowledge of the market (and recent history suggests the opposite), the best people will most likely be the most expensive.

So in non-bullshit speak, what he's saying is we need to buy even cheaper than before. Apparently that's "imaginative".

Good lord....

Most players are ridiculously overvalued. With the Salary Cap Protocol extending to the Championship next season there should be less money around. Maybe players and their agents will have to reduce their demands - although that doesn't seem to happen very often.

 

[BerksBlade]

“The idea is to try and concentrate on bringing in the best people available rather than the most expensive in terms of fees or the biggest names,” a source confirmed last night. “People who are proven performers at this level because Sheffield United is still a big draw.”

The more I read this, the more like middle-management bollocks it sounds. Is he saying that Wilson and other previous managers haven't brought in the people they thought were the best available at the time?

I would have thought that more often than not the best people are the most expensive - that's how supply and demand works? If you give a manager a sum of money to buy a player, human nature suggests he's not going to use 2/3 of the money and get someone 2/3 as good?

I can't see where we're going with this policy. It seems like any half-decent Academy graduates will be sold straight away, so we have to make do with those either (i) not "proven" yet or (ii) not deemed good enough to be sold.

I don't see what's wrong with using the loan market provided it's done sensibly - other clubs have done it. Look at what the Pigs did with Antonio. If we'd kept Matt Phillips and/or Billy Clarke and got promoted maybe we would have been in a position to sign them?

 

[JohnDenver]

We can make it our policy to look for potential. I.e. more Millers and Blackmans, fewer Robsons and Kitsons. Lets look for players who will be better in 2014/15 than 2012/13, let alone 2006/07.

Totally agree. But I guess one person's common sense is another's 'imaginative'.

 

[blade too long]

Good call sothall. But why are they leaving. Not good enough to be offered new contracts, Motherwell can't afford to keep them or simply think their better than what they really are.

well they finished 2nd , and as first choice regulars so not good enough might be crossed off

 

[jezzablade]

It'll be a good start if we look for players with vital attributes that won't restrict them in their position, even at a higher level.

If we want a wide man who is quick and good at taking people on, we don't sign Ryan Flynn. If we want a right back who is full of energy and bombs up and down the wing, we don't sign Tony McMahon or Matt Hill. If we want a defensive midfielder who adds height, strength and athleticism we don't sign Michael Doyle.

The new manager must come in and define these criteria for each position and start building his ideal side within the setup he prefers.

Then we must accept that a player may come with limitations that we may have to address by looking for players (in nearby positions) that will complement him. For example if we find a flying right winger, we may be better off with a steady eddie at right back after all. If we sign a young, poor man's David Beckham at right midfield, he may need an attacking, overlapping type instead. Either should preferably have the potential to fulfill that role at a higher level though.

But this isn't an imaginative new system this the the bog standard system. We all know that the imaginative system involves the academy players. This means finding a system that suits buying cheap players along with non-exceptional youngsters. To get us into to the Champonship. I think the imaginative bit is that we imagine we are in the championship because we won't go up with the strategy tabled by the owner and the club chair.

 

[Gavlar]

The only problem with that theory is that Murphy was apparently a stand out player in the second best team in Scotland, yet hardly pulled up in any trees in the English third division.

I have little faith that other Motherwell players will be any better than him.

it is v annoying that murphy wasn't as good as in Scotland, i'm hoping in time he proves me wrong, but he's looked poor so far. maybe he needs to be upfront? maybe McCall can get the best out of him? who knows.

I also don't get why he left a top Scottish league team for us? he could be in the champs league if he had stayed....

 

[StarBlade]

I've come up with a new system, I reckon it could save us.

Find a player who costs nothing. Have him score 20 goals in first few games, sell him for £5M. Pay £4.9M toward the debt, use the £100k to buy another player immediately. Said player scores 50 goals and we sell him for £20M. Repeat until we take over the world.

I think this Winter man really is on to something. My only regret is that we didn't think of it sooner.

 

[Blade58]

Maybe I need to check with Walthy about the economic theory involved here. But unless we have unique knowledge of the market (and recent history suggests the opposite), the best people will most likely be the most expensive.

So in non-bullshit speak, what he's saying is we need to buy even cheaper than before. Apparently that's "imaginative".

Good lord....

All makes perfect sense to me.

We have no money so we go out and buy a load of crap and then just "imagine" they're great

 

[Darren]

it is v annoying that murphy wasn't as good as in Scotland, i'm hoping in time he proves me wrong, but he's looked poor so far. maybe he needs to be upfront? maybe McCall can get the best out of him? who knows.

I also don't get why he left a top Scottish league team for us? he could be in the champs league if he had stayed....

No he couldn't. Motherwell are in the Europa League and (as I have said 276 times) will probably get knocked out in the qualifying stage by a team from Romania or Serbia