If you buy enough 3rd division players, that's where you end up

[Yoonited]

Why are we assuming the transfer policy is just to sign lower league players?

The seasons start is still 2 months away and the Transfer Window does not close for 2 and a half so why don't we just wait and see what happens before we start worrying!

Let us cast our minds back to last season after 3 games in. Turned out or8.

 

[Woodwardfan]

It's a pretty sweeping statement though by Docherty.Not all third division players spend their career in it because of the extra talent they have and are subsequently rewarded by astute managers in higher divisions purchasing them.
Harry Maguire was a third Division player who is now a Prem player. I think the valid question you ask "but is there a point where we do need to go out and pay get the quality of someone who is seasoned at this level or above"? is probably best answered by Chris n Alan while we are left to speculate. I think they might have had it nailed since last season.

I see us as an incomplete Jigsaw whose pieces are being carefully selected with time and patience. I'd also rate Chris to become more successful than Docherty whose career arguably went downhill after Man-Ure and he only won a Cup or two there ???

I had the unexpected pleasure of bumping into Chris earlier this week on Division St and the energy and positivity , not to mention mischief he exudes is palpable.We have an absolute diamond and I know I am slightly off topic now but I trust him implicitly to get most signings spot on. I also think Ched will surprise many. Simply cannot wait.

Cannot for the life of me imagine it feels so exciting in South Barnsley. Trepidation is my bet.
UTB

Barnsley has a reputation for playing good football and playing young players with potential and developing them in the proper way. They court the big clubs and will get more than their fair share of quality loanees on season long loans because they have a good reputation for doing things right.

Theiir manager exudes calm and confidence and has a professional image.

We should not knock the 'Barnsley Model', we should aspire to it. So far their success seems to have them above us in the budget stakes; they are a year in front of us but surely can't have outbid us for McCarthy, it must be more than that in his particular case. More likely to be his chances of playing regular first team football or even a guarantee.

 

[yorkshirecoast]

Barnsley has a reputation for playing good football and playing young players with potential and developing them in the proper way. They court the big clubs and will get more than their fair share of quality loanees on season long loans because they have a good reputation for doing things right.

Theiir manager exudes calm and confidence and has a professional image.

We should not knock the 'Barnsley Model', we should aspire to it. So far their success seems to have them above us in the budget stakes; they are a year in front of us but surely can't have outbid us for McCarthy, it must be more than that in his particular case. More likely to be his chances of playing regular first team football or even a guarantee.

Aspire to the Barnsley model? Have we sunk that low?

 

[Woodwardfan]

Why are we assuming the transfer policy is just to sign lower league players?

The seasons start is still 2 months away and the Transfer Window does not close for 2 and a half so why don't we just wait and see what happens before we start worrying!

Not worrying like those in S6 who spent all their money in January.

No, we are still building and step by step raising the quality of our squad.

We are not at the stage when the only way we can improve the squad is to spend big on one or two players. Perhaps we will next season though.

Within his whole equation it would be a big bonus if one or two of Whiteman, Reed and Brooks could make the step up. In fact we would need to be letting quality players leave for their own good.

This season we are still building on strong foundations laid last season. All being well, in 2018 we may be adding touches to the building which transform it. We have already demolished the tired old building, dug and laid the foundations and got it roofed on strong walls. This summer we'll get the internal walls, kitchen and bathrooms fitted with stuff we could only have dreamed of a year ago. Next year we maybe add the conservatory and entertainment suite in the garden - great to have but non-essential as yet.

 

[snootyfenooty]

We should not knock the 'Barnsley Model', we should aspire to it.

You've got to be kidding. They were on the fringes of the playoffs then sold Winnall, Hourihane & Bree to totally fuck up their season. That's our old model and the one we're trying to get away from.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Aspire to the Barnsley model? Have we sunk that low?

On their budget and resources look at their progress since December 2015 and think about how they did it.

There are threads on the subject last year.

 

[Woodwardfan]

You've got to be kidding. They were on the fringes of the playoffs then sold Winnall, Hourihane & Bree to totally fuck up their season. That's our old model and the one we're trying to get away from.

Barnsley cannot prevent that happening. They are a small club. We can't stop it yet either.

Pray for the day when we can say no and our players believe that staying is a viable alternative.

With the cash Barnsley can kick on from there, way ahead of schedule looking at the past 18 months.

 

[snootyfenooty]

Barnsley cannot prevent that happening. They are a small club. We can't stop it yet either.

Pray for the day when we can say no and our players believe that staying is a viable alternative.

With the cash Barnsley can kick on from there, way ahead of schedule looking at the past 18 months.

So come January 2018 and we're knocking on the door of the playoffs and we sell Sharp, Fleck & O'Connell but we manage to finish just above the drop zone. Oh, so we should all say "look how we've progressed, measure this against where we were two years ago, now we can use the cash and kick on". Are you OK?

 

[GaryHamsonsLeftBootLace]

If you're thinking we should be challenging for promotion in our first season, then I'd tend to agree - we probably need to spend more.

However, as consolidation is the name of the game (IMHO), I actually think last season's first 11 is good enough to survive in the championship. Just look at some of the dirge in the lower placed championship teams' squads. What we don't have is depth - we were lucky there were no major injuries to key players last season - we need cover and CW seems to be doing that with the acquisitions made thus far.

Moore, O'connell, Freeman, Lafferty, Fleck, Coutts, Duffy (as an impact player unless he gets fitter), Sharp, Bash and Carruthers could get into most championship teams. Evans' form is an unknown, but if he can rekindle it then he's definitely good enough for the championship. The new lads we would need to see more of before judging them, but if CW thinks they're good enough then I'm happy to see.

I agree we need some experience at the back, and I think CW has been on record to state he wants a couple of CBs, so one could assume one would bring some experience.

 

[Woodwardfan]

So come January 2018 and we're knocking on the door of the playoffs and we sell Sharp, Fleck & O'Connell but we manage to finish just above the drop zone. Oh, so we should all say "look how we've progressed, measure this against where we were two years ago, now we can use the cash and kick on". Are you OK?

Not to that extent obviously, as I said Barnsley are a small club and probably the thought of going up frightened them to death. They are much stronger now though and maybe wouldn't baulk at it next season. Great achievement for them to be consolidating in the Championship for now.

We are a bigger club and our players will be more content in that knowledge. We can't stop players leaving for better opportunites though, it's a fact of life, perhaps we would have leverage in the JTW but not for long. The financial facts of life are that we cannot double a player's wages to stay, we can't afford it yet and Wilder would perhaps not welcome it morale wise.

If we were to adopt the 'Barnsley Model' with more resources for the extra 10% of quality, all well and good to me.

 

[Boxer Blade]

If you're thinking we should be challenging for promotion in our first season, then I'd tend to agree - we probably need to spend more.

However, as consolidation is the name of the game (IMHO), I actually think last season's first 11 is good enough to survive in the championship. Just look at some of the dirge in the lower placed championship teams' squads. What we don't have is depth - we were lucky there were no major injuries to key players last season - we need cover and CW seems to be doing that with the acquisitions made thus far.

Moore, O'connell, Freeman, Lafferty, Fleck, Coutts, Duffy (as an impact player unless he gets fitter), Sharp, Bash and Carruthers could get into most championship teams. Evans' form is an unknown, but if he can rekindle it then he's definitely good enough for the championship. The new lads we would need to see more of before judging them, but if CW thinks they're good enough then I'm happy to see.

I agree we need some experience at the back, and I think CW has been on record to state he wants a couple of CBs, so one could assume one would bring some experience.

Is consolidation the name of the game? I am not expecting us to be looking at automatic but without getting in front of myself I hope we show the ambition to get into the top six, I wont be expecting it as much as the teams coming down from the premier obviously but aiming for without the pressure of expecting it? Yup.

 

[snootyfenooty]

Not to that extent obviously, as I said Barnsley are a small club and probably the thought of going up frightened them to death. They are much stronger now though and maybe wouldn't baulk at it next season. Great achievement for them to be consolidating in the Championship for now.

We are a bigger club and our players will be more content in that knowledge. We can't stop players leaving for better opportunites though, it's a fact of life, perhaps we would have leverage in the JTW but not for long. The financial facts of life are that we cannot double a player's wages to stay, we can't afford it yet and Wilder would perhaps not welcome it morale wise.

You need to make your mind up. First we should follow the Barnsley model, now they're a small club and we're not.

 

[DifferentClass]

Tommy Docherty's only career highlight was knobbing the physio's wife.

I'd much rather tek advice from Wilder.

 

[Woodwardfan]

You need to make your mind up. First we should follow the Barnsley model, now they're a small club and we're not.

We are recovering from a low base.

As I see the Barnsley model, it is working within their means, attracting young players with plenty ahead of them both by loan and contract, investing in developing relationships with top clubs so that they know their young players will be developed in the right environment, playing proper football, getting stronger year by year by re-investing money made on players thereby lifting the level continually.

I'd say it all should be easier and happen quicker with our club, but as we know there are so many imponderables. I also have concerns we don't trust enough our younger players, or other clubs' young players, as yet.

At last our manager is at least as good as theirs.

 

[Davie Blade]

In which case he should have earnt enough in the last 10 years to not be requiring a massive contract at his beloved Blades

Just 7 months ago he played for England.
Has there been anyone on the planet who has gone back to their first place of employment for a 90% pay cut ?

I am all for altruism but in this case Free Glue (other mind-bending substances are available )
or Pork Talk spring to mind.

 

[Houston_Blade]

Yes there is and in my view we need tried and tested defenders at this level, it's going to be the difference between lower reaches of this division to mid to top 6 for me. Central defence is a problem currently in my view, even last year at times we looked vulnerable.

A feature of the Blades ever since I remember (26 years-ish), no matter who we've had and how good our defenders have been, has been the ability to always look like we're on the verge of conceding a goal at any moment. I don't know whether it's a nervous thing and as a fan of a club you fear it more than if you watched as a neutral but we've always had a suicidal streak in us. No matter who we sign it will still be there.

 

[snootyfenooty]

We are recovering from a low base.

As I see the Barnsley model, it is working within their means, attracting young players with plenty ahead of them both by loan and contract, investing in developing relationships with top clubs so that they know their young players will be developed in the right environment, playing proper football, getting stronger year by year by re-investing money made on players thereby lifting the level continually.

I'd say it all should be easier and happen quicker with our club, but as we know there are so many imponderables. I also have concerns we don't trust enough our younger players, or other clubs' young players, as yet.

At last our manager is at least as good as theirs.

I don't get your obsession with Barnsley. There is nothing to learn from them. They are struggling financially with net liabilities of £10m and sold their best players when they were on the cusp of the play-offs. You go on about development of their young players yet our academy blinds theirs. You laud them as playing proper football so I can only assume you didn't attend many of our games last year. You are saying that they have signed and loaned young players and we haven't. They're finished last season as a lower championship club, which is where they've been, more or less, for the last 10 years. Is that getting stronger year by year?

I understand there is nothing wrong with comparing us with others as a benchmark for success but ffs don't do it with that shower of shit.

 

[Woodwardfan]

I don't get your obsession with Barnsley. There is nothing to learn from them. They are struggling financially with net liabilities of £10m and sold their best players when they were on the cusp of the play-offs. You go on about development of their young players yet our academy blinds theirs. You laud them as playing proper football so I can only assume you didn't attend many of our games last year. You are saying that they have signed and loaned young players and we haven't. They're finished last season as a lower championship club, which is where they've been, more or less, for the last 10 years. Is that getting stronger year by year?

I understand there is nothing wrong with comparing us with others as a benchmark for success but ffs don't do it with that shower of shit.

You have different perspectives than I have, fair enough. I don't think you are uttering a "shower of shit" and I can assure you I am not either.Why are you so aggressive and challenging? Debate works.

If Barnsley have net liabilities of £10m then they are working miracles so what I believe has some validity ( we would have debt way more than that but for Mccabe and now the Prince).

I have not compared Academies, we have the best in the area, no doubt about that. Whether the Academy is where a club in our position these past few years should be spending big money is debatable. Barnsley certainly can't afford one like ours. I agree with you that we should keep our Academy if only for when we are in the Premier League as planned, but I respect other opinions from fellow Blades who prefer we spent the cash on first team players; they do not talk a "shower of shit", it is a valid opinion.

BTW, I do not "go on about their development of their young players". Actually they develop the best of other clubs' young players who they poach at the right time for all concerned and sign them on contracts. They also take on loan players who can make a difference at first team level and gain experience themselves in a quality environment.

BTW Barnsley were bottom of L1 when we played them in November 2015 and they rescued a point in the 96th minute. Since then they have not looked back.

 

[snootyfenooty]

Why are you so aggressive and challenging? Debate works.

It's a result of exasperation when I read posts like yours. Follow the Barnsley model ffs.

 

[Woodwardfan]

It's a result of exasperation when I read posts like yours. Follow the Barnsley model ffs.

What is? Comment on the whole post not just a selected soundbite)). What are you a Theresa May advisor?

Please debate all the serious points I make Snooty, it was you who was and is aggressive. See through the debate, it is a worthy one.

 

[snootyfenooty]

What is? Comment on the whole post not just a selected soundbite)). What are you a Theresa May advisor?

Please debate all the serious points I make Snooty, it was you who was and is aggressive.

I give in.

 

[Aston max]

Statement that's done to death, last few seasons I Have had to be a armchair fan of sky, radio etc and watched a lot of championship games and we have nothing to fear from 50% of the sides just based on how we played and on last season's squad

 

[Woodwardfan]

I give in.

You've given in and yet I seriously understood the points you were making. Pity, maybe I could have learned from you.

 

[John Street West Terrace]

He's making common sense signings with hungry players that will fit the team work ethic that CW wants . I think most people might have found Bassetts signings underwhelming at this point last time .. right up until ten to 5 one Saturday at Filbert Street ?

 

[Cerberus Blade]

I believe it was Tommy Docherty who came out with this one.

On an individual basis, I'm happy with Wilder's signings to date.

All sensible acquisitions, right age, profile of players that can improve and that are better than their current circumstances. Plus they fit into a reasonable wage structure.

I just wonder whether the above adage holds water and we should be looking at some quality of a higher level of experience.

Even the remaining targets are the best of where we have come from - Leonard, Holmes, Reeves. You could argue Mackay-Steven in the SPL is no higher than League One.

Playing Devil's Advocate a little here, because I do like what Wilder has done, but is there a point where we do need to go out and pay to get the quality of someone who is seasoned at this level or above?

And aren't 6-8 players of our current squad "seasoned" at this level or above? Or did I imagine it?

 

[stringer]

Good debate. I already wrote my thoughts on the subject here www.thestar.co.uk/sport/football/sheffield-united/sheffield-united-chris-wilder-channels-spirit-of-brian-deane-and-tony-currie-in-his-summer-transfer-business-1-8563377 [feel free to delete Foxy/Linz if necessary]

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

Just 7 months ago he played for England.
Has there been anyone on the planet who has gone back to their first place of employment for a 90% pay cut ?

I am all for altruism but in this case Free Glue (other mind-bending substances are available )
or Pork Talk spring to mind.

Interesting times Davie, sometimes, just sometimes, it's maybe not all about money

 

[Pollingtonblade]

We saw last season that Wilder is ruthless if things aren't working (Hussey, Long,Wilson all bombed out, latterly Done) so I have no concerns that if these players he's signing aren't good enough they'll be out as well.

CW is in credit so we have to believe in his recruitment, that said I suspect we've not finished shopping yet.

 

[blade too long]

it all depends on the players you buy

Liverpool in their dominant years bought plenty of 3rd division players
Ian Rush from Chester Kevin Keegan from Scunthorpe Emlyn Hughes , from blackpool, the list goes on

as ive said before most of our 1st squads played in the championship before

sharp and clarkes played lots of games goalie comes from there
I dont get why we fail to see we won div 3 by so much because of the championship quality we had

 

[coolhandluke]

Follow the Barnsley model ....... and sell our best players to the teams around us in the same league . That'll go down well on here