If we don't go into play-off's.....

[wizadry]

Not sacking somebody, because you have had a lot of managers, is completely illogical. That's like people who do their knackers in doubling up on red because one is due. Nothing is ever due. What happens next is completely unrelated to what happened last time, or the time before, or the time before. Obviously the board are at fault for many things, but keeping a manager just because the board are probably more at fault doesn't make any sense either. It's like buying shit furniture, because your house is shit too.

Where the club has gone wrong with managers, is employing the wrong ones. Adkins looked the right one, but it hasn't worked. He's been a disaster. IF we had always picked the right manager, the chances are we would not have had to keep firing them.

Not a bad post but how could anyone realistically/possibly tell, if Adkins was/is the wrong manager when/before he was appointed?

 

[Been there done that]

I saw more dodgy stats and opinions out forwards as facts so thought I'd reply to this one seen as you disappeared from the other thread after being called out.

Via a quick Google search, over the phone, and by Mal Brannigan?

Adkins was offered the job, over the phone by Mal Brannigan. Fact. Source: Nigel Adkins. He didn't even know who Brannigan was. Fact. Source: Nigel Adkins.

The google CV bit was a bit tongue-in-cheek but reflects the growing realisation that we ALL got taken in by Adkins track record. What's important now is that SUFC see that he's not the man we need to take us forward & up, & we get someone in ASAP.

 

[PeteBlade]

Not a bad post but how could anyone realistically/possibly tell, if Adkins was/is the wrong manager when/before he was appointed?

Everyone has hindsight now I've noticed.

Loads of people had concerns about him (yet never voiced them), lots of people knew he'd be no good because of Reading.

He most certainly wasn't pretty much universally approved.

 

[PeteBlade]

Adkins was offered the job, over the phone by Mal Brannigan. Fact. Source: Nigel Adkins. He didn't even know who Brannigan was. Fact. Source: Nigel Adkins.

The google CV bit was a bit tongue-in-cheek but reflects the growing realisation that we ALL got taken in by Adkins track record. What's important now is that SUFC see that he's not the man we need to take us forward & up, & we get someone in ASAP.

He's given an interview discussing these facts has he? Or are we just taking your word for it?

Did McCabe not tell him who Mal was when they met, prior to his appointment?

 

[Deadbat]

I do not think there is any shame in a lot of fans saying they were pleased with the appointment but that so far it has not worked.

I was delighted with the Adkins choice and felt Clough was right to be moved on. The fact is we were getting worse under Clough and if as allegedly happened that he steadfastly refused to change his approach then it was right for the board to move him on.

I thought Adkins was a coup for the club and was surprised another Championship club has not appointed him. For all his cliches and motivational speeches, he had been very successful at two clubs for a relatively long amount of time after doing well in non league football (Welsh league) before nd Reading seemed to be the exception.

I knew we had some dreadful players and the squad was bloated with slow, ageing journeyman or never has beens. However I felt at worst Adkins would gradually change the culture, shift out the deadwood and still keep us competitive and be in and around the top 6. I thought automatic would be difficult but not out of the question. The loss of Murphy was a big blow but his inability to shift out the aforementioned dead wood quick enough (he has started to do it if you look at things as players gone or seen surplus now is a surprising number; Alcock, Freeman, Collins, Baxter (by default), Higdon, Scougall, Campbell Ryce, McNulty - have I missed anyone?). I think even he wished he would have moved many of these on before but it has taken him a season to realise and start doing it.

His signings other than Sharp have been really poor. Sammon, Edgar, Hammond, Woolford all have failed. That surprises me as you would think with his contacts and also us appointing Turnbull as chief scout we would have picked off a few lower league gems like Scunny did.

A managers job is to get the best out of the players he has and he has failed badly in that regard. Tactically and organisationally he has been inept being outcoached most weeks often by far less experienced managers. The fact is despite our poor squad it really is not that much worse than many above us. That all of Burton, Walsall, Gillingham, Walsall, Scunthorpe, Rochdale and Port Vale are above us; is quite frankly disgusting. That is purely down to the mismanagement of the managers (this one and previous one) and the board.

So on the face of it, you would have to say he has failed in every aspect of his management. The only plus is he is now starting to get rid of some of the rubbish but he has wasted a season to do it.

I do think if we had not sacked so many managers and he had not some kind of track record; then he would have been sacked.

McCabe will probably give him the summer and the start of next season but a poor start and he will be gone in Sept/Oct. If United are outside the top 10 and offering up same levell of football and his signings have been ineffective then even he will know McCabe will not wait.

I reckon we need at least 7/8 players this summer (we will be left with only around 5 or 6 first teamers and maybe the same in cover players and then a few youngsters). He has to sign 2 new centre backs and 2 new midfielders. These players are key. If he gets these right with Sharp, Adams (and Done - still see him as a striker) and one strong/big player to be added up top; then there is no reason we should not be much higher up the league. It is time for Turnbull and Adkins to really earn their money this summer. They now should be using (and process should have already started) to bring in these 7/8 players. He should be identifying and talking to agents now. He knows what division we are in and should really be able to start hammering out some deals really.

 

[Sean Thornton]

I do not think there is any shame in a lot of fans saying they were pleased with the appointment but that so far it has not worked.

I was delighted with the Adkins choice and felt Clough was right to be moved on. The fact is we were getting worse under Clough and if as allegedly happened that he steadfastly refused to change his approach then it was right for the board to move him on.

I thought Adkins was a coup for the club and was surprised another Championship club has not appointed him. For all his cliches and motivational speeches, he had been very successful at two clubs for a relatively long amount of time after doing well in non league football (Welsh league) before nd Reading seemed to be the exception.

I knew we had some dreadful players and the squad was bloated with slow, ageing journeyman or never has beens. However I felt at worst Adkins would gradually change the culture, shift out the deadwood and still keep us competitive and be in and around the top 6. I thought automatic would be difficult but not out of the question. The loss of Murphy was a big blow but his inability to shift out the aforementioned dead wood quick enough (he has started to do it if you look at things as players gone or seen surplus now is a surprising number; Alcock, Freeman, Collins, Baxter (by default), Higdon, Scougall, Campbell Ryce, McNulty - have I missed anyone?). I think even he wished he would have moved many of these on before but it has taken him a season to realise and start doing it.

His signings other than Sharp have been really poor. Sammon, Edgar, Hammond, Woolford all have failed. That surprises me as you would think with his contacts and also us appointing Turnbull as chief scout we would have picked off a few lower league gems like Scunny did.

A managers job is to get the best out of the players he has and he has failed badly in that regard. Tactically and organisationally he has been inept being outcoached most weeks often by far less experienced managers. The fact is despite our poor squad it really is not that much worse than many above us. That all of Burton, Walsall, Gillingham, Walsall, Scunthorpe, Rochdale and Port Vale are above us; is quite frankly disgusting. That is purely down to the mismanagement of the managers (this one and previous one) and the board.

So on the face of it, you would have to say he has failed in every aspect of his management. The only plus is he is now starting to get rid of some of the rubbish but he has wasted a season to do it.

I do think if we had not sacked so many managers and he had not some kind of track record; then he would have been sacked.

McCabe will probably give him the summer and the start of next season but a poor start and he will be gone in Sept/Oct. If United are outside the top 10 and offering up same levell of football and his signings have been ineffective then even he will know McCabe will not wait.

I reckon we need at least 7/8 players this summer (we will be left with only around 5 or 6 first teamers and maybe the same in cover players and then a few youngsters). He has to sign 2 new centre backs and 2 new midfielders. These players are key. If he gets these right with Sharp, Adams (and Done - still see him as a striker) and one strong/big player to be added up top; then there is no reason we should not be much higher up the league. It is time for Turnbull and Adkins to really earn their money this summer. They now should be using (and process should have already started) to bring in these 7/8 players. He should be identifying and talking to agents now. He knows what division we are in and should really be able to start hammering out some deals really.

"Tactically and organisationally he has been inept being outcoached most weeks often by far less experienced managers."

^^^^ This. This this this.

 

[wizadry]

"Tactically and organisationally he has been inept being outcoached most weeks often by far less experienced managers."

^^^^ This. This this this.

This could have something to do with him being out of the game for a while? I'm not sticking up for him here 'btw', I'm trying to look at reasons as to why this could be happening a lot this season.

 

[Sean Thornton]

This could have something to do with him being out of the game for a while? I'm not sticking up for him here 'btw', I'm trying to look at reasons as to why this could be happening a lot this season.

Whatever, it's worrying but I think Deadbat has it spot on.

 

[wizadry]

Whatever, it's worrying but I think Deadbat has it spot on.

Yes, it was a very good post, although WHF might not think so.

 

[Deadbat]

That is the thing; if we got rid of Adkins I would not be surprised. If we kept him equally not surprised.

For once McCabe could do whatever this summer and it will get a mixed reaction.

He normally does the opposite to what you expect. This time I am not even sure he knows what to do

 

[wizadry]

That is the thing; if we got rid of Adkins I would not be surprised. If we kept him equally not surprised.

For once McCabe could do whatever this summer and it will get a mixed reaction.

He normally does the opposite to what you expect. This time I am not even sure he knows what to do

Very true, DB!

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

That is the thing; if we got rid of Adkins I would not be surprised. If we kept him equally not surprised.

For once McCabe could do whatever this summer and it will get a mixed reaction.

He normally does the opposite to what you expect. This time I am not even sure he knows what to do

Deadbeat , you are right . McCabe as a fan , as Chairman , is like us fans , don't know whether to stick or twist .

Adkins unlike Clough seems a nice , genuine , hard worker , and could be on the same page as McCabe . If he gets the boot , it will be from a heavy heart from McCabe , not a blazing alleged row like with Clough.

Adkins has to have a strategy to keep us all on side , and if we have missed the play offs , start planning now for next season and play a side without players who will not be here next season . We may get hammered but so what .

If he continues to play a side with no real conviction , then he could be signing his own death warrant like he did at Reading .

McCabe has a hard decision from the heart or head or both with Adkins .

UTB

 

[Jostein's Bandage]

Not a bad post but how could anyone realistically/possibly tell, if Adkins was/is the wrong manager when/before he was appointed?

I was more saying that you COULD tell that the rest weren't the right manager before they were appointed. Nobody with any knowledge of the game would have appointed Robson, Wilson or Clough. Robson had got his last two clubs relegated,. Wilson has never really done much despite plenty of opportunities and being a Wendy was always going to be under pressure from day one. Clough had kept Derby in mid-table for an eternity, despite them being expected to challenge a lot of those seasons he was in charge. Adams wasn't anything like an obvious choice either. Weir had never even had a manager's job before.

You don't know a manager will work out, but you know when one definitely or probably won't. If you keep appointing ones that have next to no chance, then you are obviously going to end up sacking a lot of managers.

If we went and appointed Warnock for next season, most people would say that is a good appointment. Obviously some people would say it's a bad one. That's not the same thing as saying "yes, he will succeed", it's just saying this has a chance of working. If we went and appointed Barry Chuckle, everybody would say it's a bad appointment. And they'd be right.

 

[wizadry]

I was more saying that you COULD tell that the rest weren't the right manager before they were appointed. Nobody with any knowledge of the game would have appointed Robson, Wilson or Clough. Robson had got his last two clubs relegated,. Wilson has never really done much despite plenty of opportunities and being a Wendy was always going to be under pressure from day one. Clough had kept Derby in mid-table for an eternity, despite them being expected to challenge a lot of those seasons he was in charge. Adams wasn't anything like an obvious choice either. Weir had never even had a manager's job before.

You don't know a manager will work out, but you know when one definitely or probably won't. If you keep appointing ones that have next to no chance, then you are obviously going to end up sacking a lot of managers.

If we went and appointed Warnock for next season, most people would say that is a good appointment. Obviously some people would say it's a bad one. That's not the same thing as saying "yes, he will succeed", it's just saying this has a chance of working. If we went and appointed Barry Chuckle, everybody would say it's a bad appointment. And they'd be right.

Your second paragraph in your initial post, mate does refer to Adkins and that's what I was responding to, Adkins being the right man then you following on by saying he's been a disaster which is an overstatement because a disaster could mean an entirely different outcome and we didn't want that.

He has under performed no doubt about it but it isn't all down to him. There are a lot of factors of which we don't know of but one thing is for sure we can't keep falling upon wank managers, someone, somewhere along the line has to be at fault in this fault ridden club and that someone has been here for years.

On the flipside of your point is that there is no point appointing the right manager if you're not going to give him the right tools or enough time to put his plan in place. I think Adkins has wanted to play 4-4-2 more but for whatever reason, whether that be his scouting system or the board it hasn't been able to be put into fruition, he doesn't trust the players here to be able to play it. I personally think we as a club should give him the backing to put his plans into place this summer, then and only then can we really judge him imho of course. It's pretty obvious others see it differently, the beauty of football eh!

The other question is who do we get in if we were to get rid? Who would be the next manager to feel the wrath of us fans after either not being backed by the board or given long enough due to him wanting his own players in and not being able to do it in one season?

 

[super_pig]

He certainly isn't "right" simply because you agree that you both want to sack Adkins.

I've outlined the reasons I don't want him sacked multiple times.

None of those reasons correspond with what you've suggested above.

i'm actually on the fence, i can't quite make my mind up atm so i'll save you some googling.. at various times recently i have said 'sack him' .. 'keep him'.. i suspect many others feel the same

 

[super_pig]

I was more saying that you COULD tell that the rest weren't the right manager before they were appointed. Nobody with any knowledge of the game would have appointed Robson, Wilson or Clough. Robson had got his last two clubs relegated,. Wilson has never really done much despite plenty of opportunities and being a Wendy was always going to be under pressure from day one. Clough had kept Derby in mid-table for an eternity, despite them being expected to challenge a lot of those seasons he was in charge. Adams wasn't anything like an obvious choice either. Weir had never even had a manager's job before.

You don't know a manager will work out, but you know when one definitely or probably won't. If you keep appointing ones that have next to no chance, then you are obviously going to end up sacking a lot of managers.

If we went and appointed Warnock for next season, most people would say that is a good appointment. Obviously some people would say it's a bad one. That's not the same thing as saying "yes, he will succeed", it's just saying this has a chance of working. If we went and appointed Barry Chuckle, everybody would say it's a bad appointment. And they'd be right.

if barry chuckle got us promoted it would be a 'masterstroke'

 

[west_yorks_blade]

Coventry lost at home to colchester tonight.

It's still on I tell you. Storm up to 9th if we win tomoz.