If we do go up…

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jt64 said:
The squad would need a lot of work for sure, and I don't think it's something that could realistically be done in one window, even with PL resources. As such, I certainly wouldn't want us to take a Forest/Fulham type approach to spunk all the money in a low percentage effort to do everything at once, I'd rather try to do things incrementally. Probably look to bring in 1xCB and 1xCM on permanents, then use the loan market to augment the spine of the side.

Basically I want us to be in the situation where if it's August 2024 and we're back in the Championship, we have a younger, better side than we have now and the finances of the club are more secure than they are now
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You only have to be better than 3 teams.

Hopefully one of them is the play off winners.

As much as pundits wish to wank themselves blind about Burnley, go back to October and take 13 senior pros out of their squad and see what points total they'd have now. I'd wager no better than ours. So that is another team you would target.

Finish as the top promoted team and you just need one more.

Bournemouth, Southampton, Leeds, Everton, West Ham, Forest.

They've all looked pretty crap at different points in the season. Three of those will still be there to take points off. Not convinced Palace will be all that if Zaha leaves.

Mistake is thinking you have to compete with City.

You don't. You just have to win your mini league.
 
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blade too long said:
View attachment 155296

People keep saying boro are fantastic and scoring goals how come our gd is better
Don't deny they look good at the Riverside....but don't play so expensively away..
And we are now 9 points clear of Blackburn and 13 points clear of Millwall in 7th

And cut Burnleys lead to 10 points

If they lose to us Blackburn and boro be interesting as Burnley have to play 2nd 3rd and 4th in a month
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I like the look of this table. The obvious thing to say to the doubters is "how would you feel if you were shown this table last August?"
 
Isn't the OP a bit of a moot point? If you go up you go up, doesn't really matter how you do it unless you don't then buy any players. If the point is 'will we get bummed every week in the PL with this squad?' the answer is probably yes, but we are highly unlikely to be relying on this squad.
 
FallowfieldBlade said:
Not me I’ve said we are shit all season

Let paul get us up let him have the parade then you can see dozy in the boardroom Paul

What’s Nigerian for you’re fired
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"o ti le kuro" in Yoruba or "an kore ka" in Hausa apparently. Nigeria has over 500 languages so you have a lot of options.
 
Tezza1889 said:
We all know Luton will not be easy, Reading weren't, Blackburn weren't and we needed an OG against Watford.

Hopefully the team enjoyed the win and it would help them travelling back for Saturdays game in high spirits.. Was It a genius move giving them Sunday off, yeah I think..

Reading was a bigger banana skin in my opinion because games in hand very rarely result in points, but Luton are as much a threat, let's hope we go on the pitch with a swagger, confidence, and play with style and purpose..

2 wins on the bounce (without being disrespectful to Luton) could see us on go on a good run too..

UTB.
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Last time we won 2 consecutive league games was 20 January ... fingers crossed for Saturday
 
I think as you've pointed out that Ndiaye is the exception to the last time we went up "THAT" team would be worse than this one.
Having a tactic that caught a few teams out and some passion is an aside to the fact that the players are very much the same.

If we add a LCB and a couple of midfielders at the same level as Anel we will be much better than that team IMO.
 
CrookesBlade said:
By what measure?

I'd love to see your working on this
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It's just my view. I think the standard in this league has got lower and we still don't look convincing, just not what I've come to expect from a top 2 side in this division, in terms of style, and the level of superiority generally in evidence

As for Hecky, he's just very very average. Not terrible, but not a manager to get promotion to the PL. Based on his previous record as well as his time here. I may be harsh saying only Parker is worse, might be forgetting 1 or 2. There have been plenty flash in the pan sort of managers, who don't stick around but do burn bright for a period..... Coyle, Holloway, McDermott, Wagner, any Watford manager, Adkins etc. But there aren't too many I can think of who appear so average even through the period of success
 
For those of us who went up in 70/71 , we have to adjust our philosophy to the modern game where club wealth & player contracts are the gateway to success.
Money has replaced romance.
 
Hamandcheese said:
It's just my view. I think the standard in this league has got lower and we still don't look convincing, just not what I've come to expect from a top 2 side in this division, in terms of style, and the level of superiority generally in evidence

As for Hecky, he's just very very average. Not terrible, but not a manager to get promotion to the PL. Based on his previous record as well as his time here. I may be harsh saying only Parker is worse, might be forgetting 1 or 2. There have been plenty flash in the pan sort of managers, who don't stick around but do burn bright for a period..... Coyle, Holloway, McDermott, Wagner, any Watford manager, Adkins etc. But there aren't too many I can think of who appear so average even through the period of success
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I won't argue re his previous record. Decent at Barnsley followed by poor spells at Leeds and Hibs, with some mitigation.

This season we had an early period where we were wiping the floor with teams until injuries set in pre World Cup so its not been one long slog. Its fair to say since then we have reverted to grinding out results but for me this is to Heckingbottom's credit particularly given he hasn't been allowed to bring in reinforcements.

In this regard I don't think we a much different to any number of other promoted sides. Its only the ones that play decent football that stick in the mind. Micky Adams, Steve Bruce, Alex Mcleish, Warnock, Pulis, Robson all managed very meat and potatoes sides.

For me he's done a great job. Instantly turned around a side whose confidence was on the floor under 'promotion specialist' Jokanovic. We'd have gone up last season if he'd been in charge in last season and put us in pole position to go up this season. Anybody would have taken 7 points clear with 11 games to go if offered at the start of the season. All while working with one hand tied behind his back. If the circus wasn't going on in the background and he'd had proper training facilities and money to spend we'd be in a better position to judge his abilities.

Thats an interesting point you make about the ones who 'burn brightly'. You could lump Bielsa and possibly Wilder in there as well. They hit upon a style that works for a bit before teams learn how to counter it and tactics generally move on or they flog players to death for a couple of seasons before they collapse. I don't know how you'd judge them either tbh.
 
CrookesBlade said:
I won't argue re his previous record. Decent at Barnsley followed by poor spells at Leeds and Hibs, with some mitigation.

This season we had an early period where we were wiping the floor with teams until injuries set in pre World Cup so its not been one long slog. Its fair to say since then we have reverted to grinding out results but for me this is to Heckingbottom's credit particularly given he hasn't been allowed to bring in reinforcements.

In this regard I don't think we a much different to any number of other promoted sides. Its only the ones that play decent football that stick in the mind. Micky Adams, Steve Bruce, Alex Mcleish, Warnock, Pulis, Robson all managed very meat and potatoes sides.

For me he's done a great job. Instantly turned around a side whose confidence was on the floor under 'promotion specialist' Jokanovic. We'd have gone up last season if he'd been in charge in last season and put us in pole position to go up this season. Anybody would have taken 7 points clear with 11 games to go if offered at the start of the season. All while working with one hand tied behind his back. If the circus wasn't going on in the background and he'd had proper training facilities and money to spend we'd be in a better position to judge his abilities.

Thats an interesting point you make about the ones who 'burn brightly'. You could lump Bielsa and possibly Wilder in there as well. They hit upon a style that works for a bit before teams learn how to counter it and tactics generally move on or they flog players to death for a couple of seasons before they collapse. I don't know how you'd judge them either tbh.
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No doubt that with any luck and any help from the owner we'd be looking at a definite promotion. So if we do fail I'll cut him a lot of slack. He's just a steady manager performing as expected. We pretty much knew what we were getting with him. To not try to compensate for his limitations by strengthening the squad in January was criminal - if anything costs us, in my mind, it'll be that. We saw the result of it very directly in the Boro game
 

The side playing this season wont be anything like what it will be next ! Whatever division we are in !!
 
Hamandcheese said:
If we go up I almost wouldn't care if we're relegated. Sounds loserish and small I know but it's not the priority. We need promotion to get on a stable financial footing, improve the infrastructure and build a squad for the next few years
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I personally think its a sensible option. When you look at the top half of the Championship table in the last 10 years 5 out of the 12 teams have had at least one season in the Premier League and the other 7 'Boro & Sunderland were both in it for long stretches until 2017 and the others have been classic yo yo sides. As long as the gap between the "yo-yo" doesn't exceed parachute payments we can settle in for a fine future of off field development and Squad recruitment and retention.
 
The club can't be trusted to sign expensive players and play them in a way that made them become expensive players.

So, let's go up, accept defeat, come back down with a shit ton of cash, sell Berge and Iliman, spend £20 million on 15 workhorses, go back up again, bank the cash, come back down again, spend £30 million on five good players, go back up again, and come back down again, spend £50 million on three excellent players.

Finally end up fishing in a different pond as far as Championship clubs go and end up with a squad that is miles too good for the Championship. Then yo yo forever and a day as far as I'm concerned.

We'll either be a Premier League club, or a Premier League club in waiting.

Best we can hope for I think
 
JJBlade said:
The club can't be trusted to sign expensive players and play them in a way that made them become expensive players.

So, let's go up, accept defeat, come back down with a shit ton of cash, sell Berge and Iliman, spend £20 million on 15 workhorses, go back up again, bank the cash, come back down again, spend £30 million on five good players, go back up again, and come back down again, spend £50 million on three excellent players.

Finally end up fishing in a different pond as far as Championship clubs go and end up with a squad that is miles too good for the Championship. Then yo yo forever and a day as far as I'm concerned.

We'll either be a Premier League club, or a Premier League club in waiting.

Best we can hope for I think
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Your arithmetic it extreme but I see what you're driving at.
We have to keep unearthing more JoCs , Anels , Ramsdales & Ndiayes.
And avoid spending big on Moussets , Berges & Brewster's.
In fact we should avoid large fees coz we wasted so much on them.
 
"If we do go up" ....
Last time our mantra was "big fees , low wages" , based on :
Wages policy
Acquiring younger players whose value would increase - this failed with Mousset , McB , Berge & Brewster.
Can we risk trying to buy better this time or get 5 PL loans in on bigger wages ?
 
Keen Blade said:
"If we do go up" ....
Last time our mantra was "big fees , low wages" , based on :
Wages policy
Acquiring younger players whose value would increase - this failed with Mousset , McB , Berge & Brewster.
Can we risk trying to buy better this time or get 5 PL loans in on bigger wages ?
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Big wage loans are more excusable I think. But even with permanents, we couldn't obsess over wage parity as much as we seemed to last time. Any big contracts would have to have big relegation wage drops tho...... which should stop anyone half decent signing 😆
 
blader said:
Will he be one of the worst, or even the worst, automatically promoted sides since it became the championship?

Cardiff 2018 were pretty poor but let’s be clear we are not a ‘good’ side by any definition. To preempt the ‘oh can’t you just enjoy the win’ it’s a genuine question, not a rhetorical one to try to appear negative. Has there actually been worse than us?

Are any of our team premier league quality? Ndiaye being an obvious exception. But it’s hard to make a strong argument for any of the others. So slow, disjointed and lethargic in most areas of the pitch it’s far from entertaining that’s for sure! Promotion is meant to be fun but it has somehow felt like mental torture since we came back from the World Cup at least!
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"Promotion is meant to be fun".
No it's not - not in our circumstances.
In the absence of a sugar daddy owner , it's the only way to avoid oblivion.
Stay down without parachute payments and most supporters can predict the inevitable slide.
No matter how uninspiring the current form or how unlikely we are to survive in the PL , getting there is all that matters for now.
That's why the mood can't possibly be anything like 1971 , 1990 , 2006 or 2019. On those occasions we had the prospect of a great adventure.
Having experienced the brutal 20/21 , and our manager & owner turning their back on us , returning to the PL is a grim & dogged fight for survival.
Only once we are there can we afford the luxury of trying to plan our future.
The first question will be whether we have an owner who actually wants to own us - the second , how much he will invest over & above the PL income.
If we get up this May , we'll start learning what being a yo-yo club is like.
There'll be lots of competition for the new resources.
Folk on here will clamour for all sorts of things.
Removing poles from the kop , ground expansion 🤣 , Cat A Academy status , new training ground , doing summat with the hotel , buying the McCabe parcels , paying off the ground mortgage , transfer fees , wages budgets etc etc.
We will have to show more acumen than we did last time.
How much did we waste on the Slav appointment ?
How much return have the big investments in Brewster , Berge , Mousset , McB actually provided ?
To say nothing of the medium investments in Luke Freeman , the other Robinson , Ollie Burke.
Have we got a proper scouting system ? Maybe so - Anel , Doyle & McAtee ?
So , in a nutshell , I don't care if we are the worst performing team to get auto promotion - I will tolerate any level of frustration & boredom so long as we finish second.
Staying down leaves us in a financial apocalypse with half a squad out of contract and an owner who wants out.
Going up makes us a more attractive proposition if Dozy falls through.
It also gives us the chance to find more Anels , Ndiayes , McAtees & Doyles.
 
blader said:
Will he be one of the worst, or even the worst, automatically promoted sides since it became the championship?

Cardiff 2018 were pretty poor but let’s be clear we are not a ‘good’ side by any definition. To preempt the ‘oh can’t you just enjoy the win’ it’s a genuine question, not a rhetorical one to try to appear negative. Has there actually been worse than us?

Are any of our team premier league quality? Ndiaye being an obvious exception. But it’s hard to make a strong argument for any of the others. So slow, disjointed and lethargic in most areas of the pitch it’s far from entertaining that’s for sure! Promotion is meant to be fun but it has somehow felt like mental torture since we came back from the World Cup at least!
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I agree that we will be amongst the worst to go up, but I don't think we're a lot worse than Bournemouth were last season and they're only 1 point off 17th at the moment.
 
Alan Birchenall's hair said:
.......and we beat Boro 4-0 at home. Not quite 5-0 but not bad even so. And Boro lost 1-0 at Reading, whereas we won 1-0. And if my Aunt Fanny had a cock, she'd be my Uncle Dick (although that's maybe not true these days).
Admittedly, there's not quite the vibe of the Wilder and Bassett promotions, but we were all a bit giddy as the baseline we had been rescued from was so low with those two managers (shitty players in the 3rd tier). But Warnock? Do me a favour.....
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Yes, the Warnock promotion wasn't on the same level as DB's & CW's, a long way off but there was a buzz, and we had a swagger about us, especially in some away games (watford, palace, hull, pompey, etc.) and perhaps the derby games added something too. Even under Warnock there seemed a greater belief amongst the fans, that started during the triple assault season. It felt like the culmination of years of graft and near misses.

Completely take your point though, we got more points v reading than boro and scored 4 at home. As stated elsewhere, I'm sure the financial pressures and the necessity for the future of the club to get promoted this season must be playing a part - with us fans too.
 
Keen Blade said:
"Promotion is meant to be fun".
No it's not - not in our circumstances.
In the absence of a sugar daddy owner , it's the only way to avoid oblivion.
Stay down without parachute payments and most supporters can predict the inevitable slide.
No matter how uninspiring the current form or how unlikely we are to survive in the PL , getting there is all that matters for now.
That's why the mood can't possibly be anything like 1971 , 1990 , 2006 or 2019. On those occasions we had the prospect of a great adventure.
Having experienced the brutal 20/21 , and our manager & owner turning their back on us , returning to the PL is a grim & dogged fight for survival.
Only once we are there can we afford the luxury of trying to plan our future.
The first question will be whether we have an owner who actually wants to own us - the second , how much he will invest over & above the PL income.
If we get up this May , we'll start learning what being a yo-yo club is like.
There'll be lots of competition for the new resources.
Folk on here will clamour for all sorts of things.
Removing poles from the kop , ground expansion 🤣 , Cat A Academy status , new training ground , doing summat with the hotel , buying the McCabe parcels , paying off the ground mortgage , transfer fees , wages budgets etc etc.
We will have to show more acumen than we did last time.
How much did we waste on the Slav appointment ?
How much return have the big investments in Brewster , Berge , Mousset , McB actually provided ?
To say nothing of the medium investments in Luke Freeman , the other Robinson , Ollie Burke.
Have we got a proper scouting system ? Maybe so - Anel , Doyle & McAtee ?
So , in a nutshell , I don't care if we are the worst performing team to get auto promotion - I will tolerate any level of frustration & boredom so long as we finish second.
Staying down leaves us in a financial apocalypse with half a squad out of contract and an owner who wants out.
Going up makes us a more attractive proposition if Dozy falls through.
It also gives us the chance to find more Anels , Ndiayes , McAtees & Doyles.
Click to expand...

Surely promotion is, in theory, the most fun thing that you can enjoy as a football fan? Burnley fans must be having the most fun season for absolutely ages.

The prem is a slog. It’s a mostly unenjoyable experience for the ‘also rans’ where you can go a month or so between wins (for example I saw leeds are still out of the bottom 3 despite winning 1 game in 4 months!). It just feels a little short changing to have this promotion season but without the joy other teams seem to experience. Maybe everyone is loving it, I live abroad so I don’t get a sense of the atmosphere in the city, but it feels like we are stumbling to promotion in a pretty uninspiring way!

I do get your notion of ‘just you at any cost’ but ultimately, all clubs class ceiling is 7th/8th in the prem so the best we can hope for is a fun promotion season in the champ which this doesn’t feel like, particularly in comparison to the others!
 

blader said:
Surely promotion is, in theory, the most fun thing that you can enjoy as a football fan?
all clubs class ceiling is 7th/8th in the prem so the best we can hope for is a fun promotion season in the champ which this doesn’t feel like, particularly in comparison to the others!
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your holding back

Im loving this season , 7 points clear with 11 games left 6 at home and 4 of the bottom 5 to play
a record number of clean sheets

whats not to like

party-time.gif
 
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