How do football bans work,anyone been banned before?

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derbysufc said:
I left school 83
I got a yts scheme job on 25 quid a week but was also doing 3 paper rounds in the week to fund . Studied at college and did blades news.
It paid for every blades game and my clothes.
Back then Chapel walk ,
Fila , taccinhi , ellese , lacoste farah .
I could afford 2 nights a week at the roxy aswell if not Cairo jax .
Brilliant days all grafted for and spent thousands of hours coming back from away night games...
Never missed .
No fan back then was a watch it tv premier league mug fan, Colchester away in 81/2 we got trashed 5-2, we didn't cry .
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I’m older than you but as a youngster it was Barathea Blazers, Yorkshire Rose on the pocket, pocket hankies (on a card :) ) Crombies (style) - being small my Dad paid for a made to measure one Harrington’s - not the Mod Revival fashions of late 70’s early 80’s Ben Sherman’s. Slazenger jumpers, Sta prest etc The more flash, Blue Beats and later umbrellas! :) And silk scarves. Including wearing at away games. It wasn’t depravation that is now the acknowledged “truth”.
 
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Silent Blade said:
National service ended in the 1960s and then there was a big rise in football hooliganism
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Trouble was increasing in the 50’s.

The sociologist Stanley Cohen was led by his retrospective study of the mods and rockers conflict to develop the term "moral panic". In his 1972 study Folk Devils and Moral Panics,[7] he examined media coverage of the mod and rocker riots in the 1960s.[9] He concedes that mods and rockers had some fights in the mid-1960s, but argues that they were no different from the evening brawls that occurred between youths throughout the 1950s and early 1960s at seaside resorts and after football games. He argues that the UK media turned the mod subculture into a symbol of delinquent and deviant status.[10]





Not much changes.
 
Iron Bar Jack used to sit a few rows in front of me on the Kop. My Dad was never involved in this sort of stuff but he knew who he was and pointed him out to me.

Years later, when I started Uni in Manchester (around 2006), I saw a bloke wearing a T-shirt that I could swear blind had a picture of Iron Bar Jack and his mate on the front. Sadly the bloke went past before I could get a second look to confirm. It remains one of the oddest things I've ever seen. Either I had a psychotic episode or someone has a T-shirt with pictures of well-known ish Sheffield United fans for reasons unknown.
 
Sean Thornton said:
Football hooliganism was rife as far back as the 1880’s and throughout the following decades. The idea that it expanded in the Thatcher years derives from the middle class Talking Heads - who weren’t even around - looking for a scapegoat.
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Is it unreasonable to suggest that organised football hooliganism (e.g. arranging fights, the establishing of 'firms' and the whole 'terrace culture') grew, or even peaked, during the 70's & 80's?
(Silent Blade makes a good observation between national service ending & hooliganism rising)

Doesn't mean to say it didn't exist before, as proven by SB with the acid throwing incident.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by the middle class having an ulterior motive to make people believe hooliganism spawned during this period? I'll bow to your life experience if there's more to that period of time you lived through. I think you're right about the previous mods/rockers etc. it speaks to the point of a deeper, root cause.

As for the late 1800's - I recall reading something where football matches were halted if two blokes had to state their reasons to commence a dual by fist!
 
Zipwire said:
Drops of acid on your forehead
Drop of acids in your hair
When you’re on Shoreham Street
You’ll find there is acid everywhere

Here it comes, drops of acid from me to you
You’re getting burnt again
You’re getting burnt again
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I'm going to suggest that we all drop acid during Chris Bashams testimonial 😵‍💫
 
Deadly_D'Jaffo said:
Is it unreasonable to suggest that organised football hooliganism (e.g. arranging fights, the establishing of 'firms' and the whole 'terrace culture') grew, or even peaked, during the 70's & 80's?
(Silent Blade makes a good observation between national service ending & hooliganism rising)

Doesn't mean to say it didn't exist before, as proven by SB with the acid throwing incident.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by the middle class having an ulterior motive to make people believe hooliganism spawned during this period? I'll bow to your life experience if there's more to that period of time you lived through. I think you're right about the previous mods/rockers etc. it speaks to the point of a deeper, root cause.

As for the late 1800's - I recall reading something where football matches were halted if two blokes had to state their reasons to commence a dual by fist!
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Well you mentioned the Thatcher years. Based on what? Some academics political take? I think everyone who has commented - and was there - rightly discounts that. Much of the fighting 60’s 70’s was in the grounds or immediately outside or on the rout to and from stations etc. The more organised stuff, well away from the ground was, l believe later.

But as has been said, if you weren’t there, you can’t understand it. Imagine going to say Leeds early seventies. A police presence escorting you from the station to the ground while on the other side of the road were equal numbers of Leeds fans breaking through the cordon at various times. And it wasn’t just the obvious firms. Most away games. Being on the Kop at BL with drunken Geordies lobbing bottles. Not just the hooligans affected, many people. Not so much a defence, more expressing the reality.
 
Talking of banning orders and the police.. On Sunday Kaz who runs coaches (no alcohol allowed) was saying someone on his coach at Chelsea away is looking at a banning order.

A guy in his mid 60s was chanting "Chelsea rent boys" (stupid and silly but not uncommon) when the coach arrived and the police came onto the bus and arrested him for 24 hours. His 11 year old grandson day was ruined from both sides and had to travel back home on the coach without his Grandad.

Now SUFC are looking at a banning order. So forget fighting, you can get big punishments for chanting. (Which most football fans do)
 
Ndiayewillalwaysloveyou said:
Talking of banning orders and the police.. On Sunday Kaz who runs coaches (no alcohol allowed) was saying someone on his coach at Chelsea away is looking at a banning order.

A guy in his mid 60s was chanting "Chelsea rent boys" (stupid and silly but not uncommon) when the coach arrived and the police came onto the bus and arrested him for 24 hours. His 11 year old grandson day was ruined from both sides and had to travel back home on the coach without his Grandad.

Now SUFC are looking at a banning order. So forget fighting, you can get big punishments for chanting. (Which most football fans do)
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Homophobic chanting is a bit different to normal chanting though. I can see why the authorities would want to make a statement with this.
 
Sean Thornton said:
Well you mentioned the Thatcher years. Based on what? Some academics political take?
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I literally said;
Deadly_D'Jaffo said:
Most documentaries on the rise of football hooliganism in the UK points to the disenfranchised youth of the Thatcher era
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Mentioned it - Yes, but documentaries. You've also imagined that I subscribe to a middle-class thinktank on the subject? Why exactly? Also, why do you believe that the middle class are so keen to wrongly attribute the origins of hooliganism? Seems like a bit of a strange tangent.

Sean Thornton said:
But as has been said, if you weren’t there, you can’t understand it
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I think we're coming at the subject from different angles. I'm not claiming to fully understand the experience of hooliganism before I was born, I thought I'd made that bit fairly obvious.
My insight is from someone I was very close to and was an established part of the BBC. He shared alot of interesting stories, not to mention going to a couple of games with a few them as a teenager. I'm more interested in the 'who is' and 'why are' people drawn to football hooliganism.

Just because I didn't have the distinct pleasure of experiencing a police escort through Leeds during the seventies, doesn't diminish me positing the root cause(s). I don't really care that much to argue about how it was.
 
Houston_Blade said:
Homophobic chanting is a bit different to normal chanting though. I can see why the authorities would want to make a statement with this.
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Is it similar action to racist chants? I generally haven't a clue but I've heard the "Chelsea rent boys" chant loads compared to racist chants. So loads would/should be getting banning orders then.
 

Ndiayewillalwaysloveyou said:
Is it similar action to racist chants? I generally haven't a clue but I've heard the "Chelsea rent boys" chant loads compared to racist chants. So loads would/should be getting banning orders then.
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I can’t imagine it’s tolerated in any way at all by clubs or police so a ban would be likely.
 
Regards gangs , it will never change there will always be gangs regardless of football.
Here in derby my step son is involved with the A1 - gang.....this covers the allenton and alvaston areas ( hence ) A1.
used to be 100s of them all drug pushers but most now in jail or dead .
There rivals here are
Sin fin - solders
A large estate full of chavs single mothers etc .
Browning circle boys from sunny Hill,
One was stabbed to death not long ago in Osmaston Park.
Then the biggest gang of the lot Chaddesden boys. Biggest estate in derby .
Got a few from stocky = stockbrook who deal but the 4 mobs above hate eachother and all about drugs .
How do I know all this???? Step son heavily involved .
How do they know their area ??? They tie trainers on the lampost cables .
Drive round here and see purple laces hanging from telegraph poles you know it's A1 - turf .
Not a day goes by where I ain't offered drugs when I'm out and about .
The 2 local pubs near me on a Friday night are like the Colombian mafia night.
Then different gangs arrive.
 
ForgeBlade said:
Probably been done a hundred times before on here and elsewhere, but since this seems to be the thread for it, can anyone, genuinely, explain to me the appeal of fighting over football?

There's been a ton of tit for tat over the last 6 pages accusing people of glorifying it, which is denied, but then the same deniers talk about "good lads" and "top blokes." I might be a bit naive, as a child of the 80's/90's who has never really encountered this side of football, but I really don't understand how you can speak in such positive terms about people who went to football looking to engage in physical violence with opposing fans?

To me, and I honestly don't mean this as a personal attack on anyone in this thread, anyone who does that is as far from being a "good lad" as you can get. They cause stress and misery for other fans, and all it seems to achieve is that they get nicked/banned/locked up (delete as applicable).

derbysufc you seem like a bit of an authority on the subject. I guess you were a bit of a naughty lad back in the day so please, explain to me, a 37 year old who has been following the Blades for nearly 30 years without ever getting involved in any violence, what is/was the appeal of it? Personally, if I was at a match, anywhere, watching United, and I saw something kicking off, I would high-tail it in the opposite direction as fast as I could. If that makes me less of a Blade in your eyes, then fair enough, but again, I just don't see the appeal.

I love the tribalism of football. I love that for 90+ minutes I can sing, scream and shout in support of my team, and against whoever we are playing. I just don't see the need to carry that on outside the ground afterwards. I'd much rather have a beer with opposing fans after a game, and discuss the match that we've just watched.
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It’s an adrenaline overload couple with a tribalism that extends beyond the 90mins and when you’ve got another set of lads looking for the same thing it adds to the excitement. Some people just like fighting. It’s instinctive for alot of people of it could be bred into them or a hangover of being abused as a kid.

It’s like any fighting sport, what’s the appeal it? Fitness, excitement, adrenaline rush, an art form etc. fighting on a Saturday with likeminded people is the same, it’s a release, almost a leisurely destress for some.

The violence I don’t get is violence on innocent people because they just support another club. That’s wrong and naughty.
 
My mummy banned me from football for 1 month cause I didn’t do no homework.
 
BobblesBlade said:
My mummy banned me from football for 1 month cause I didn’t do no homework.
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My old man banned me from blades games in 81/82
I went to live with my grandad in Kiveton on Peveril close.
My grandad was a mega blade , he never said a word , a tough old kivo pit man .
Colchester away we lost 5-2, he picked me up from Sheffield Station, had my tea ready and so long as he had the match programme he was happy.
 
derbysufc said:
Regards gangs , it will never change there will always be gangs regardless of football.
Here in derby my step son is involved with the A1 - gang.....this covers the allenton and alvaston areas ( hence ) A1.
used to be 100s of them all drug pushers but most now in jail or dead .
There rivals here are
Sin fin - solders
A large estate full of chavs single mothers etc .
Browning circle boys from sunny Hill,
One was stabbed to death not long ago in Osmaston Park.
Then the biggest gang of the lot Chaddesden boys. Biggest estate in derby .
Got a few from stocky = stockbrook who deal but the 4 mobs above hate eachother and all about drugs .
How do I know all this???? Step son heavily involved .
How do they know their area ??? They tie trainers on the lampost cables .
Drive round here and see purple laces hanging from telegraph poles you know it's A1 - turf .
Not a day goes by where I ain't offered drugs when I'm out and about .
The 2 local pubs near me on a Friday night are like the Colombian mafia night.
Then different gangs arrive.
Click to expand...
Drug gangs are easy to understand, they have a clear goal, to generate money and the violence surrounding it has clear motives, to continue making money, persuade other drug dealers to leave your custom alone etc. I didn't realise that Derby had such an old fashioned culture regarding areas and colours. Mainly teens I'm guessing?

Easy to understand than football related 'gangs' should I say as the motive seems to be violence only rather than something tangible like money
 
Ndiayewillalwaysloveyou said:
Talking of banning orders and the police.. On Sunday Kaz who runs coaches (no alcohol allowed) was saying someone on his coach at Chelsea away is looking at a banning order.

A guy in his mid 60s was chanting "Chelsea rent boys" (stupid and silly but not uncommon) when the coach arrived and the police came onto the bus and arrested him for 24 hours. His 11 year old grandson day was ruined from both sides and had to travel back home on the coach without his Grandad.

Now SUFC are looking at a banning order. So forget fighting, you can get big punishments for chanting. (Which most football fans do)
Click to expand...
They class it as Insitement to cause effect, or something along those lines, seen bloke pulled from the crowd outside boozers and straight into a mariar, and away.
 
Deadly_D'Jaffo said:
I literally said;


Mentioned it - Yes, but documentaries. You've also imagined that I subscribe to a middle-class thinktank on the subject? Why exactly? Also, why do you believe that the middle class are so keen to wrongly attribute the origins of hooliganism? Seems like a bit of a strange tangent.



I think we're coming at the subject from different angles. I'm not claiming to fully understand the experience of hooliganism before I was born, I thought I'd made that bit fairly obvious.
My insight is from someone I was very close to and was an established part of the BBC. He shared alot of interesting stories, not to mention going to a couple of games with a few them as a teenager. I'm more interested in the 'who is' and 'why are' people drawn to football hooliganism.

Just because I didn't have the distinct pleasure of experiencing a police escort through Leeds during the seventies, doesn't diminish me positing the root cause(s). I don't really care that much to argue about how it was.
Click to expand...
You seem defensive here. I’m specifically talking about late sixties early seventies. Pre BBC and more organized issues. Things were quite different for the general fan then.

Have you posited the root causes? Other than an inaccurate claim that the Thatcher years were to blame?
 
The closest I ever got to football violence was nothing to do with fighting. My dad & my uncle used to take me to away matches in the late 60's early 70's, as long as I could get back from the mornings school football match in time. On the morning of going to see the Blades at Man City (I was a 'keeper then), I dived on the ball in a penalty area scramble & someone kneed me in the eye socket, & by the time we got to Manchester I had a pretty impressive shiner going on.
We managed to find a boozer with mostly Blades inside, & as I was sat there drinking orange juice I lost count of the number of Blades who came up & asked me various questions, such as "were you mobbed", "whereabouts was it?", "how many were there", "glad to see young lads getting involved", & "did you take any of them down with you", & so on. They were crestfallen when I told them how it happened.
This was at Maine Road, in 1971, I think the game ended 2-1 City. I was 14.
 

Bert said:
Not something you can blame on Thatcher.

It really started in the late 1960's. Bert was around then and he can certainly remember dozens and dozens of incidents home and away.

Fortunately he wasn't on the Kop that day a Unitedite was chucking acid at people in the 60's.
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I read an article once about how violence and crime has always gone up after every major war but then gone down again - until WW2 when it didn't.

Edit: another factor is the rise in the use of cars in the 60s and lead in petrol, which has been proven to correlate with violence statistics, which then were seen to go down about 20 years after lead was phased out.
 
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