Houston we have a problem..........money.

[Woodwardfan]

Some very good posts on here from both angles. On reflection I overeacted but I am still in shock just how weak we were in midfield when Bristol were in possession. I expected a solid spine to the team with Collins and Butler, fronted by Doyle and Basham, and OK I was delighted when Higdon was selected. That's a good spine to win the first hour and introduce match winners later in the game.

Being so weak in midfield exposes the back 4 who seemed to be ball watchers and also incapable of holding their ground when players ran at them.

It all seemed so feeble and unnecessary and then when I heard the old familiar "we will blood the youngsters, they are our future" I thought "Oh no, same ow'd, same ow'd jam tomorrow" and I thought all the induced optimism could fall around our ears. Prior to 2.45pm on Saturday I had every confidence that Clough would take us up this season with a bit to spare, but not now.

In mid July I was the one saying we would have a stuttering start. I was prepared for that but not in this manner. The warning bells are still ringing in my ears, very loudly.

 

[DorsetSUFC]

As the song goes 'its not where you start its where you finish, - we don't need to panic one game into the season! I am sure NC will have milestones with points required at certain stages of the season - fall below or poor performance, ship in / ship out as required. Just need to be in top six around Xmas and top two at end of season. I am sure the resource is in place to achieve this.

 

[Esablade]

Did someone hack into Woody's account yesterday?

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Sorry Woody but I don't think you could be more wrong. I think the kids in midfield (Reed and Dimaio) will be both regular starters throughout the season, and the spine will develop during that period.
Cloughs seen the potential in both of them and that's why the cheque book wasn't waved at the likes of Coady when Liverpool wanted to overprice him.
The overall development and transition of the team from the likes of Doyle and Collins to the kids is one of the main aspects I'm looking forward to this season, and I genuinely believe that next season we will be championing both those players as youth talent who will be able to compete in the Championship.
I'll stick to my position before a ball was kicked and that is the first 10 games there wil be a few disappointing results while the new team gel, but I still think we'll promoted in the summer.
I really can't understand the reaction to Saturdays game. Did anyone really think we were massively outplayed and won't accept we could easily have been the ones taking the three points if chances had been taken?

 

[Houso]

And I think that's the crux of the matter. The money is available to Clough, but he's not seen fit to spend it in large amounts. This I think is down to a few reasons:
1) he's seen the potential in the kids we have at the Lane. I expect many of them to be regular starters through the season.
2) he's a tight arse... I mean, he's prudent
3) we actually have a very deep squad already.

On that last point, we definitely need a right back, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's the only other position we recruit for this season. On Saturday we didn't even have a place on the bench for Andy Butler; by all accounts one of the better players for a divisional rival over the last couple of seasons.

Meanwhile, our captain didn't start the match, nor did our most experienced (and dependable) defender, our most talented player in Baxter and another a striker we paid money for in the close season. Not playing due to injury was our 'Coady replacement' and then there were many other talented players that we couldn't find space for or are injured.

It still astonishes me that people can't see we've spent a comparatively large amount (for League One side) since HRH came in. Yes, we recouped a chunk from Harry, but that was after spending money on a number of players such as Scoogs, Baxter and Cuvelier - all of whom were rumoured to be around the 300-400k mark.

 

[Woodwardfan]

And I think that's the crux of the matter. The money is available to Clough, but he's not seen fit to spend it in large amounts. This I think is down to a few reasons:
1) he's seen the potential in the kids we have at the Lane. I expect many of them to be regular starters through the season.
2) he's a tight arse... I mean, he's prudent
3) we actually have a very deep squad already.

On that last point, we definitely need a right back, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's the only other position we recruit for this season. On Saturday we didn't even have a place on the bench for Andy Butler; by all accounts one of the better players for a divisional rival over the last couple of seasons.

Meanwhile, our captain didn't start the match, nor did our most experienced (and dependable) defender, our most talented player in Baxter and another a striker we paid money for in the close season. Not playing due to injury was our 'Coady replacement' and then there were many other talented players that we couldn't find space for or are injured.

It still astonishes me that people can't see we've spent a comparatively large amount (for League One side) since HRH came in. Yes, we recouped a chunk from Harry, but that was after spending money on a number of players such as Scoogs, Baxter and Cuvelier - all of whom were rumoured to be around the 300-400k mark.

I suppose the difference in your confidence and my concerns is what I read into the team selection last Saturday.

You seem content that the spine of the team is not set in stone with utilisation of our experienced players and leaders. I worry if the "development of youth" is at the expense of strength and experience in the starting line-ups. Developing the lads can be done in starts in easier games but more sensibly in playing time as subs at suitable stages of games.

By all means play the lads as regulars when they have found their feet.

McGahey looked raw. Reed is obviously a big talent and keeps possession very well. However he plays very safe and it will take time for him to be more influetial in the final third. As for his defensive capabilities, well he struggles to command due to his physique, not his fault but just a fact. As one of four lightweights in a 5 man midfield, I think it's inadequate in this division if promotion is the obvious priority this season. If next season will do, then I would understand better.

 

[Fiery Blade]

When does spending shed loads of cash on transfer fees equate to success except at the really top end Manchester City, Chelsea and the likes
There have been large sums invested in the current squad with both signing on fees, transfer fees and wages - if people can't see that then they are blind !!

 

[S5Blade]

I haven't missed this, and others haven't missed this.

It is meaningless. It is jam tomorrow.

Once we go up, we'll chuck vast amounts of cash at promotion? Really?

As ever with United, it's not what they say, but what they do.

phew. Thanks for letting me know that we won't be spending when we go up. This is my exact point on here. People have already decided that everything the club says is lies and can literally not please you and others like you, irrespective of what they do. Unless of course you have invented a time machine and have seen that we won't spend in the championship in which case, can I borrow it for next weeks euromillions?

 

[Woodwardfan]

Sorry Woody but I don't think you could be more wrong. I think the kids in midfield (Reed and Dimaio) will be both regular starters throughout the season, and the spine will develop during that period.
Cloughs seen the potential in both of them and that's why the cheque book wasn't waved at the likes of Coady when Liverpool wanted to overprice him.
The overall development and transition of the team from the likes of Doyle and Collins to the kids is one of the main aspects I'm looking forward to this season, and I genuinely believe that next season we will be championing both those players as youth talent who will be able to compete in the Championship.
I'll stick to my position before a ball was kicked and that is the first 10 games there wil be a few disappointing results while the new team gel, but I still think we'll promoted in the summer.
I really can't understand the reaction to Saturdays game. Did anyone really think we were massively outplayed and won't accept we could easily have been the ones taking the three points if chances had been taken?

I respect that point of view but I expected Butler and Collins in central defence with Allcock and Harris at full back.

I expected Doyle and/ or Basham in central midfield as anchor. For Bristol maybe both for the first hour with the introduction of Baxter to join Scougall if needed to win the game.

With that approach I think we would have won the game comfortably. Without the above strengths I think we made Bristol look a lot better than Oxford did last night obviously.

 

[Revolution]

phew. Thanks for letting me know that we won't be spending when we go up. This is my exact point on here. People have already decided that everything the club says is lies and can literally not please you and others like you, irrespective of what they do. Unless of course you have invented a time machine and have seen that we won't spend in the championship in which case, can I borrow it for next weeks euromillions?

It's not that it's a lie. It's an empty statement.

I'll make one of my own - once we get in the Champions League, I'll buy the club and put in hundreds of millions of dollars to buy the world's best players. Until then, I will put in nothing.

This has about as much relevance to our current situation as to the current regime saying that they will spend a fortune when we get promoted. Jam tomorrow.

And they can please me easily, actually. They can not sell our best young players who are under contract.

 

[Rodders]

game. Did anyone really think we were massively outplayed and won't accept we could easily have been the ones taking the three points if chances had been taken?

I agree about chances taken, but I did think when Bristol had the ball they walked through our midfield very easily at an alarming rate. As great as the 1st 2 are on the ball, I'm just not sure that a midfield 3 of Reed, Scougs and Basham is strong or disciplined enough at this level. Personally I'd bring the Doyler back in for Basham if his performances are similar to Saturday - I thought he was miles behind play most of the game - hopefully that'll change with more games under his belt.

 

[Edinblade]

Has Curtis joined under a new name. I left the other forum because of all the negative rubbish after every draw/defeat.
Large transfer fees at our level are a waste, do not guarantee success and should be abolished. Few clubs if any outside the Prem waste money on players as so many available for nothing.

 

[S5Blade]

It's not that it's a lie. It's an empty statement.

I'll make one of my own - once we get in the Champions League, I'll buy the club and put in hundreds of millions of dollars to buy the world's best players. Until then, I will put in nothing.

This has about as much relevance to our current situation as to the current regime saying that they will spend a fortune when we get promoted. Jam tomorrow.

And they can please me easily, actually. They can not sell our best young players who are under contract.

Well unfortunately for me, and you, there is no way that you can prove they won't spend big in the Championship and I have no way of proving they will. So rather than just beating the club about not delivering on their promises (which we have shown, is impossible) why not just believe what they say and moan when they deliver? The new co-chairman has not failed to deliver on any of its statements yet, the prince is a businessman, he knows to make serious money we have to get to the premiership so I have faith in him to do so.

Our hands were forced with the Harry situation, we did all we could to keep him and turned down numerous bids for him, then the player got unhappy. Would you have really rather we kept him, lost him for a tribunal fee next season and had a negative figure around the club in what is one of our more important seasons in recent history? I would rather have the money the bank and use it to strengthen where needs be personally but I suppose this is where we differ.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

I agree about chances taken, but I did think when Bristol had the ball they walked through our midfield very easily at an alarming rate. As great as the 1st 2 are on the ball, I'm just not sure that a midfield 3 of Reed, Scougs and Basham is strong or disciplined enough at this level. Personally I'd bring the Doyler back in for Basham if his performances are similar to Saturday - I thought he was miles behind play most of the game - hopefully that'll change with more games under his belt.

That's where I think Dimaio will come in potentially for Basham long term, while short term it might be when Reed needs a break.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

I respect that point of view but I expected Butler and Collins in central defence with Allcock and Harris at full back.

I expected Doyle and/ or Basham in central midfield as anchor. For Bristol maybe both for the first hour with the introduction of Baxter to join Scougall if needed to win the game.

With that approach I think we would have won the game comfortably. Without the above strengths I think we made Bristol look a lot better than Oxford did last night obviously.

I hope he sticks with McGahey and wouldn't want to see Butler and Collins both starting ahead of him.

 

[Peter Dornan]

snip.....

pommpey

l broadly agree, BUT

Once financial information is in the public domain, it will get used against us (the club that is). If we give out info that suggests we have surplus cash, other clubs will inflate the price of players in whom we are interested. If we give out info that suggests we have a cash shortage, other clubs will think they can get our players on the cheap and may unsettle them.

So it's a difficult situation for the club, and whilst I would love to have more info on our finances, I think keeping the info private and playing our cards close to our chest is the better policy at present.

 

[MobileBlade]

What has a city in Texas got to do with United, though?

 

[scrap]

Been told by a source of mine, in Saudi, that the Prince isn't wealthy by Saudi standards. He is very Wealthy, by any standard.

 

[Rossb123]

Nothing I have seen or read leads me to have confidence that SUFC under the new half ownership is any different from our entire history.

Why? Connor Coady signed for an uninspirational Huddersfield for a fee of £375k. Harry departed for £2.5m. We didn't sign our talismanic cult figure Brayford. We didn't sign named striker targets. We all thought Clough had the charisma, yet nobody is flocking to us.

Kevin McCabe has started emphasising "youth development" again. There has not been a club statement about any new investment, As far as we fans know, the new half owner has not introduced one Saudi item of currency yet.

Clough's dialogue, demeanour, team selection, reactions, all veer towards hope and development rather than promises.

This is not a short term project. Last Saturday was appalling, not just losing but the inconsistency of team selection, captaincy choice, the usual "Clough solidity". To me it seems as though the impetus of the manager and the club has changed all of a sudden. We should reduce our expectations and the club has been remiss to lead us along. Short term season ticket sales only create severe disillusionment when rhetoric not backed up. Mason Bennett signing for Bradford is embarrassing for our manager.

Hey lads, we are skint again. I hope I am proved a total tosser, but nothing gives me any solace at this moment in time. In just three weeks I have changed from a "wise counsel" to bewildered and anxious. I believe in the manager but once again doubts emerge about the ownership. Where has the Maguire money gone? Where has the FA Cup money gone? Have I missed any messages. Is this situation really the manager's fault?

Starting to agree with you, although I keep holding on to this silly idea that Clough is going to save all the money until we are promoted and then we will be the Man City of the Championship.

I am guessing we have spent £1m/£1.5m? (is that a deluded amount?) altogether this summer in compensation for certain players and transfer fees/ signing on fees. When the prince was announced as Co-Owner it was said there was an agreement of a substantial amount that the prince had agreed to give us to help the first team. Like you say we have since had a cup run and sold Maguire. Therefore are we rich but extremely tight? I don't know what to think anymore.........

 

[TarquinDelouche]

Starting to agree with you, although I keep holding on to this silly idea that Clough is going to save all the money until we are promoted and then we will be the Man City of the Championship.

I am guessing we have spent £1m/£1.5m? (is that a deluded amount?) altogether this summer in compensation for certain players and transfer fees/ signing on fees. When the prince was announced as Co-Owner it was said there was an agreement of a substantial amount that the prince had agreed to give us to help the first team. Like you say we have since had a cup run and sold Maguire. Therefore are we rich but extremely tight? I don't know what to think anymore.........

"We" aren't anything. "The club" is being prudent and spending money where they see necessary in order to reach the championship in good financial health. I don't see anything wrong with that. The squad Clough is putting together is a good one, and I see no reason to spend unnecessarily. Where I'm from, we call that "pissing it all up a wall"

 

[Pinchy]

But where has all the money gone?

Where does your money go?

 

[Rossb123]

"We" aren't anything. "The club" is being prudent and spending money where they see necessary in order to reach the championship in good financial health. I don't see anything wrong with that. The squad Clough is putting together is a good one, and I see no reason to spend unnecessarily. Where I'm from, we call that "pissing it all up a wall"

I really do hope you are right, many times on this forum I have echoed your thoughts that we are looking to go up without over spending and I hope that is the case.

If we manage to achieve promotion this season it would be great and Clough and his team will be to thank because like you said we will be in the championship in good financial health. I am probably jumping on the depressed/deluded bandwagon after losing one game.

 

[Railway Blade]

We have the largest support in this division and will also have one of the largest budgets.

That should give us a platform with a decent manager and administration from above to get us out of this division.

We have thrown money at the problem before and it didn't work.

The regulations now prevent us from throwing huge amounts of money about.

In the future who knows how much more we will spend as we rise the divisions but I suspect the princes interest will rise as our profile rises.

Who's to say that when we get to the prem that some of his other relatives might also want a piece of the action.

All speculation but its not all doom and gloom lets just not hit the panic button right now after one game, get behind the club and see where the ride takes us.

 

[Revolution]

We have thrown money at the problem before and it didn't work.

I hate this argument. It didn't work because Bryan Robson was in charge. If it was a bad idea to spend money, the teams who spend most wouldn't win anything.

 

[TarquinDelouche]

I hate this argument. It didn't work because Bryan Robson was in charge. If it was a bad idea to spend money, the teams who spend most wouldn't win anything.

There have been plenty of examples of teams chucking money around and not winning things.

 

[Revolution]

There have been plenty of examples of teams chucking money around and not winning things.

There have, but the teams who spend the most tend to do the best, and the fact that some have failed is not a reason not to do it.

Fwiw, I have no problem with what we have or haven't spent this window. I would be happy if we'd kept Maguire and recruited a little better. The argument that it is pointless spending now is, however, pathetic.

 

[TarquinDelouche]

There have, but the teams who spend the most tend to do the best, and the fact that some have failed is not a reason not to do it.

Fwiw, I have no problem with what we have or haven't spent this window. I would be happy if we'd kept Maguire and recruited a little better. The argument that it is pointless spending now is, however, pathetic.

I don't think anybody is arguing that we should spend no money, but that spending wisely is the way to go. Do you think Portsmouth fans are happy that they pissed all that money away?

 

[Darren]

I don't think anybody is arguing that we should spend no money, but that spending wisely is the way to go. Do you think Portsmouth fans are happy that they pissed all that money away?

That's an interesting condundrum.

Portsmouth had 7 seasons in the PL, an FA Cup win and another FA Cup final appearance. They are now paying for that. Do their fans think it was worth it? They may do.

 

[Revolution]

I don't think anybody is arguing that we should spend no money, but that spending wisely is the way to go. Do you think Portsmouth fans are happy that they pissed all that money away?

As I understand it, the board are saying exactly this. Wisely or not, they will not push the boat out in this division.

As for Pompey, I'll let you know whether it was worth all the agony when we get 7 straight years in the top flight, win a trophy, reach another final and play in Europe.

 

[TarquinDelouche]

As I understand it, the board are saying exactly this. Wisely or not, they will not push the boat out in this division.

As for Pompey, I'll let you know whether it was worth all the agony when we get 7 straight years in the top flight, win a trophy, reach another final and play in Europe.

I can tell you now, it won't be. Knowing that we didn't really earn it, knowing we've become a laughing stock... I certainly wouldn't be proud of the club for risking it's very existence for that.