Hero to Zero to Hero in 10 Days - What next?

[Alfreton14Blade]

why is it
massive lost 5-1 at exeter first season down and then at stevenage 5-1 the year they went up, they got 93 points
are stevenage above gillingham in your order of things
one off results mean nothing


and leeds and saints who youd say we were on a par with
both lost at gillingham in their promotion seasons
your lack of respect for gillingham is unfounded

No lack of respect, mate. Just that they're content to be at this level, we're not (as I'm sure you'd agree). Thus losing to them, by that score, in that way, was an abomination in my view. Can't see at all why it's wrong to have been angry about it.

No doubt plenty of Wendies would have been apoplectic with rage at the time they lost 5-1 to Stevenage, & I'd fully see where they were coming from too.

Anyway, things are starting to motor nicely now. Not getting carried away yet but, things carry on like they are &, well... we all know what it can get like when we're on a roll - that 4-0 will just be a distant memory (along with all the arguments about it). Here's hoping...

 

[Bladesway]

But, whatever the natural order is or isn't, Sheffield United going down 4-0 without a whimper to Gillingham is a total joke.

Don't get why it's such a big deal for some that others might just get thoroughly pissed off about it having happened?!

No it isn't. It's a game of football. This happens. If, over a season we get humped 4-0 several times then you might start getting alarmed but it's not the first time it's ever happened.

At what point does a disappointing result become a joke? 2? 3? 4? Or more? I don't know but what I do know is that by the time we are 10 games in you will start to have some idea of the relevance of that result and your resultant tantrums.

Face it they could all be for nothing if we are top of the league in 5 weeks time and unbeaten since day 1.

 

[Alfreton14Blade]

At what point does a disappointing result become a joke? 2? 3? 4? Or more?

When it's 4-0, on the opening day of a new season, in the Third Division, against Gillingham, in a thoroughly limp & flaccid performance.

I'm not looking to argue. If you want to be thrilled about it, go ahead. I'm just saying that I found myself among the (very substantial number of) Blades who were angered by that sh*te, & that I don't see any reason at all for feeling guilty at having been so angry about it.

But, it was a week-&-a-half ago, & a lot's changed since. I can't see anyone moping about it.

 

[Bartleby]

No lack of respect, mate. Just that they're content to be at this level, we're not (as I'm sure you'd agree)

not sure I do agree and don't think Justin Edinburgh would either - think they could well be in the mix at the end of the season and that's based on back half last season as well as their great start this

Anyway, things are starting to motor nicely now. Not getting carried away yet but, things carry on like they are &, well... we all know what it can get like when we're on a roll - that 4-0 will just be a distant memory (along with all the arguments about it). Here's hoping...

agree with you on that one mate

 

[SandyMcBlade]

I can remember the days when the experts used to say it took three years before a manager could call a team his own ...

It makes you feel really old dun it........

 

[Houston_Blade]

I think if everyone on here approached football with a level head it would be a bit boring. You need ranters who kick off at bad results as much as you need those who will fervently support the team/club/manager whatever tripe they're served up.

Personally when I've been to away games 3 hours drive away and seen the team get a good thrashing I think a bit of criticism is warranted whether a manager has been in post 2 minutes or 25 years. Do you think Chelsea fans ranted after the result at the weekend? I do and if they had a bit of perspective maybe they wouldn't but it's raw and that's their last result so it bites with them.

In football you are judged on a weekly basis on performance and the other week by all accounts the Gillingham game was dire. We may end up at the top of the pile come May but there will be ups and downs along the way that will stoke reactions from various people.

It's about opinions so let people express theirs and you express yours without a condescending "told you so" type post a few results down the line. It could easily have gone the other way (although hopefully we now have a team and manager that won't let that happen).

 

[Woodwardfan]

I think if everyone on here approached football with a level head it would be a bit boring. You need ranters who kick off at bad results as much as you need those who will fervently support the team/club/manager whatever tripe they're served up.

Personally when I've been to away games 3 hours drive away and seen the team get a good thrashing I think a bit of criticism is warranted whether a manager has been in post 2 minutes or 25 years. Do you think Chelsea fans ranted after the result at the weekend? I do and if they had a bit of perspective maybe they wouldn't but it's raw and that's their last result so it bites with them.

In football you are judged on a weekly basis on performance and the other week by all accounts the Gillingham game was dire. We may end up at the top of the pile come May but there will be ups and downs along the way that will stoke reactions from various people.

It's about opinions so let people express theirs and you express yours without a condescending "told you so" type post a few results down the line. It could easily have gone the other way (although hopefully we now have a team and manager that won't let that happen).

Good post but if you mean me then I must point out I said it all 9 days ago, do you need a note of my threads?

 

[alcoblade]

I think if everyone on here approached football with a level head it would be a bit boring. You need ranters who kick off at bad results as much as you need those who will fervently support the team/club/manager whatever tripe they're served up.

There's some truth in that. But if you want to announce that a new manager's decision to "assess what he's got" has "quite simply, ruined our club", you'd better be prepared for some ranting coming back at you.

UTB

 

[Houston_Blade]

Good post but if you mean me then I must point out I said it all 9 days ago, do you need a note of my threads?

I'll take your word for it about your comments 9 days ago. Not really aimed at you in particular but anyone who has to come on and prove that they were right all along. A loss to Blackpool on Saturday and its meltdown mode again, win and it will be a happy board for another week. Same again the week after ad infinitum.....

 

[blade too long]

No lack of respect, mate. Just that they're content to be at this level, we're not (as I'm sure you'd agree). Thus losing to them, by that score, in that way, was an abomination in my view. Can't see at all why it's wrong to have been angry about it.

No doubt plenty of Wendies would have been apoplectic with rage at the time they lost 5-1 to Stevenage, & I'd fully see where they were coming from too.

Anyway, things are starting to motor nicely now. Not getting carried away yet but, things carry on like they are &, well... we all know what it can get like when we're on a roll - that 4-0 will just be a distant memory (along with all the arguments about it). Here's hoping...

once again , its a one off result , disappointing as we had high expectation , but no doubt so do 23 other league one clubs
I was distraught about our display , not losing 4-0
but bad days happen , at all levels
man utd got hammered 5-0 at the toon , still won the title
norwich lost 7-2 at home first day , went up
we did nothing new

 

[Woodwardfan]

I'll take your word for it about your comments 9 days ago. Not really aimed at you in particular but anyone who has to come on and prove that they were right all along. A loss to Blackpool on Saturday and its meltdown mode again, win and it will be a happy board for another week. Same again the week after ad infinitum.....

Not if we give the manager time to develop the team, that's the intended theme of this thread, though I admit there are a few tangents.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

when you say natural order is it based solely on attendance
no football is ever based on attendance ask Bournemouth

So that's why the pigs are shite?

 

[Houston_Blade]

Not if we give the manager time to develop the team, that's the intended theme of this thread, though I admit there are a few tangents.

I don't think anyone is against giving NA time, personally I'd have given the last few (apart from Weir and Robson) a bit more time and I think had we done so we'd have been better off than we are now league wise. However a bad result will always get a reaction, not read the whole thread so just commenting on the OP.

Glad we have NA and fully back him hopefully for a good 3-5 years whether in this division or the next. I'll still be pissed off if we lose 4 nil to anyone in this league though.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

I think if everyone on here approached football with a level head it would be a bit boring. You need ranters who kick off at bad results as much as you need those who will fervently support the team/club/manager whatever tripe they're served up.

Personally when I've been to away games 3 hours drive away and seen the team get a good thrashing I think a bit of criticism is warranted whether a manager has been in post 2 minutes or 25 years.

Nobody's saying there shouldn't be criticism. For me it should be constructive. I think plenty of the posts here and on fb after Gillingham, and in particular the sale of Murphy, crossed a line. And the abuse of Long certainly did.

Istm some criticisms - eg personal vitriol directed at the owners, who, afaict, are, say, shelling out millions annually out of their own pockets - run the risk of harming the club.

In a way we might have been very fortunate Adams scored as early as he did against Chesterfield, otherwise it's possible there could have been an ugly atmosphere; I remember Jason Holt's first touch was a sideways pass over a few yards and someone near us letting rip at him for it. His very first touch.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

I don't think anyone is against giving NA time

No. They were.

Alcoblade's quotes above about NA assessing the squad and thereby ruining the club were actually real quotes. I don't recall the specifics - but that was the very clear message.

 

[blade too long]

So that's why the pigs are shite?

there are another few hundred reasons

 

[Sheffsteel]

I also agree that many fans seem irrational, over reactive and unreasonable.

HOWEVER.......

I think the increased prices is a factor.
If it was £10 to watch a match then entertainment would be classed as a bonus and fans might be more patient But when clubs charge £25 to £35 each......

Then I think it's fair for a fan to expect and demand a reasonable level of entertainment.
If there's little action then no wonder people boo and complain because they're being ripped off.

 

[Houston_Blade]

Nobody's saying there shouldn't be criticism. For me it should be constructive. I think plenty of the posts here and on fb after Gillingham, and in particular the sale of Murphy, crossed a line. And the abuse of Long certainly did.

Istm some criticisms - eg personal vitriol directed at the owners, who, afaict, are, say, shelling out millions annually out of their own pockets - run the risk of harming the club.

In a way we might have been very fortunate Adams scored as early as he did against Chesterfield, otherwise it's possible there could have been an ugly atmosphere; I remember Jason Holt's first touch was a sideways pass over a few yards and someone near us letting rip at him for it. His very first touch.

Agreed, over the top criticism and anger does no one any favours and will alienate players/board members. I'll change my comment "no one who has the right level of perspective on where football fits in life wants NA gone anytime soon".

There will always be overreactions and people who see football as life or death, leave them to their anger and continue with reasoned debates with people who are willing to see it from both points of view.

 

[Woodwardfan]

I don't think anyone is against giving NA time, personally I'd have given the last few (apart from Weir and Robson) a bit more time and I think had we done so we'd have been better off than we are now league wise. However a bad result will always get a reaction, not read the whole thread so just commenting on the OP.

Glad we have NA and fully back him hopefully for a good 3-5 years whether in this division or the next. I'll still be pissed off if we lose 4 nil to anyone in this league though.

The OP was about giving Adkins time to get things in order rather than going mad at the first blip.

 

[Revolution]

I'm getting really tired if being told how I should be reacting to things United do, or their results.

There's some terrific debate on this board, and some interesting posters, but the good stuff is increasingly thin on the ground IMHO.

 

[Woodwardfan]

I also agree that many fans seem irrational, over reactive and unreasonable.

HOWEVER.......

I think the increased prices is a factor.
If it was £10 to watch a match then entertainment would be classed as a bonus and fans might be more patient But when clubs charge £25 to £35 each......

Then I think it's fair for a fan to expect and demand a reasonable level of entertainment.
If there's little action then no wonder people boo and complain because they're being ripped off.

Good point. I think that betting is an even bigger factor.

 

[BushBlade]

I can remember the days when the experts used to say it took three years before a manager could call a team his own ...

It makes you feel really old dun it........

They still do. It's just that the owners and supporters of clubs aren't experts and rarely have patience. Look at clubs like Sunderland.

 

[Alfreton14Blade]

Nobody's saying there shouldn't be criticism. For me it should be constructive.

A good point, with which I doubt anyone at all would argue. The issue here's about folks reacting passionately in the immediate aftermath of a shocker of a defeat though. Nothing wrong at all with not being particularly constructive in those circumstances. Football's a game of passions.

 

[BushBlade]

I also agree that many fans seem irrational, over reactive and unreasonable.

HOWEVER.......

I think the increased prices is a factor.
If it was £10 to watch a match then entertainment would be classed as a bonus and fans might be more patient But when clubs charge £25 to £35 each......

Then I think it's fair for a fan to expect and demand a reasonable level of entertainment.
If there's little action then no wonder people boo and complain because they're being ripped off.

Good point and it goes hand in hand with the general over-hyping of football. At any level you get crap, dull games but, for obvious reasons, the media makes out every match is a dramatic gladiatorial clash full of incident.
Some games are worth paying as much as we do to watch them but many aren't.

It gets worse as you go up the leagues and have to pay even more. I bet some of those Gooners who paid £60 to see them capitulate against West Ham were livid and reacted just as some of our supporters did after forking out a fair bit of cash to travel down to Gillingham and see us play like twats.

It can be very unedifying but it's a symptom of the wider game, certainly not just us. We're not flying aeroplanes over the Lane with banners telling KM to go, like Everton, Man U etc.
We're at a low point and have been for some time now and it's like a wound, every time you knock it again, it really hurts.

 

[alcoblade]

I'm getting really tired if being told how I should be reacting to things United do, or their results.

There's some terrific debate on this board, and some interesting posters, but the good stuff is increasingly thin on the ground IMHO.

Well, I think people should post what they like. It's a discussion board.

But the reaction to any post is likely to reflect the original message.

A post along the lines of "I'm a bit disappointed with that defeat" is likely to attract mild reactions.

A post like "the manager has had 60 days to get rid of all the dead wood and sort this out, his inaction has ruined our club" is likely to get a more severe one.

UTB

 

[Revolution]

Well, I think people should post what they like. It's a discussion board.

But the reaction to any post is likely to reflect the original message.

A post along the lines of "I'm a bit disappointed with that defeat" is likely to attract mild reactions.

A post like "the manager has had 60 days to get rid of all the dead wood and sort this out, his inaction has ruined our club" is likely to get a more severe one.

UTB

Most of the posts focussed on the fact that:

(a) the manager made an extremely poor job of selecting a defence, given previous form of some of those players.

(b) United's performance (the worst opening day result since 1966) was appalling.

Both of these things were true and saying them was not an overreaction. It was fair comment.

The inaction of Adkins did not ruin the club - but it helped to ruin the day. It was poor management.

Many people were worried that these problems would continue. They did last season - Clough repeatedly picked a defence with players out of position and the smallest and least effective midfielders he could find. They did the season before - Weir kept doing the same thing (and I'm not actually sure what it was) as we stumbled to defeat after defeat. We are conditioned by years of this behaviour to assume Adkins didn't learn anything either - and this was reinforced by the sale of our best player in August for the third season in a row (McCabe will never learn).

Against this background, I'm amazed that people can remain calm at all. Thank goodness we seem to have turned a corner and someone at the club appreciates it helps to play proper central defenders.

And people can post what they like. I just find the board less interesting than I used to.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

Most of the posts focussed on the fact that:

(a) the manager made an extremely poor job of selecting a defence, given previous form of some of those players.

(b) United's performance (the worst opening day result since 1966) was appalling.

Both of these things were true and saying them was not an overreaction. It was fair comment.

The inaction of Adkins did not ruin the club - but it helped to ruin the day. It was poor management.

Many people were worried that these problems would continue. They did last season - Clough repeatedly picked a defence with players out of position and the smallest and least effective midfielders he could find. They did the season before - Weir kept doing the same thing (and I'm not actually sure what it was) as we stumbled to defeat after defeat. We are conditioned by years of this behaviour to assume Adkins didn't learn anything either - and this was reinforced by the sale of our best player in August for the third season in a row (McCabe will never learn).

Against this background, I'm amazed that people can remain calm at all. Thank goodness we seem to have turned a corner and someone at the club appreciates it helps to play proper central defenders.

And people can post what they like. I just find the board less interesting than I used to.

eloquently put rev - like it a lot.

Shame you blame McCabe for Murphy - he put in a written transfer - hardly his fault.

UTB

 

[alcoblade]

Most of the posts focussed on the fact that:

(a) the manager made an extremely poor job of selecting a defence, given previous form of some of those players.

(b) United's performance (the worst opening day result since 1966) was appalling.

Both of these things were true and saying them was not an overreaction. It was fair comment.

The inaction of Adkins did not ruin the club - but it helped to ruin the day. It was poor management.

Many people were worried that these problems would continue. They did last season - Clough repeatedly picked a defence with players out of position and the smallest and least effective midfielders he could find. They did the season before - Weir kept doing the same thing (and I'm not actually sure what it was) as we stumbled to defeat after defeat. We are conditioned by years of this behaviour to assume Adkins didn't learn anything either - and this was reinforced by the sale of our best player in August for the third season in a row (McCabe will never learn).

Against this background, I'm amazed that people can remain calm at all. Thank goodness we seem to have turned a corner and someone at the club appreciates it helps to play proper central defenders.

And people can post what they like. I just find the board less interesting than I used to.

I can remain calm because the alternative is worse.

The implosion of rationale so early into the managers tenure was a real worry. You've described the rational side of the arguments that were made. But There was a distinct lack of that composure at the time. We can't keep passing the baggage of previous regimes onto the next man. We must give them some space and time.

Adkins made a blinding mistake in selecting Long, though miraculously lost on half the posters on here who've witnessed him for years. I posted my thoughts on that.

The same goes for the board. The sale of Murphy was acceptable to me. We are covered in that position. I expect us to invest before the window shuts and will share my disappointment if we don't.

It's possible to discuss these points without the ridiculous hyperbole around the first game.

But still, we should rant away all we like, it can often make this place. It's just that we should also expect it back the other way.

UTB

 

[blade too long]

It behoves us all not to knee jerk react to a bad day at the office

If Barcelona can go and lose 4.0 away in August like they did last week it tells us anythings possible in football

Being magnificent in 46 games has never ever happened
Arsenal stayed unbeaten once over 38 , with a lot of luck
But no team has come close over 46 so to expect it because we are who we are
aint gonna happen

105 POINTS OUT OF 138 IS THE ALL TIME RECORD

how dare we drop 33 points some would argue in here , its pie in the sky fantasy