Heckingbottom v wilders football

[Carlton Blade]

This team is more like the pre-Coutts injury team. Good attacking style with a bit of a soft underbelly defensively.

We definitely attack the middle of the pitch more than we did, especially when MGW is available

 

[Scarebus]

This team is more like the pre-Coutts injury team. Good attacking style with a bit of a soft underbelly defensively.

We definitely attack the middle of the pitch more than we did, especially when MGW is available

Agree. When Ndiaye or MGW picks up the ball on the halfway line, it's could go anywhere, rather than definitely heading out to the wings and down to the corner flag to be fannied about with.

 

[Sheffsteel]

The football played in our promotion from League One was probably the best under Wilder. The promotion season to the Premier League was the next best football played, until the 3-3 draw against Villa, where Wilder became more cautious after that and the team lost it's flow and swagger, despite continuing to win.

Hecky's football is good so far, as he leaves many players to do what comes instinctively to them, such as Bogle and Ndiaye, instead of over coaching them, but this good half/bad half crap needs to improve and some players also blow hot one week and cold the next, despite the amazing results. We just need to see a bit more consistency for my liking, but long may this streak continue.

Totally agree......many of our performances in that div1 promotion season was like watching Barcelona.
Never ever been so relaxed watching us...almost bored that I knew it was only a matter of time before we would score.

I still remember the home 4-0 win against an in-form Port Vale, the match where we had 4 goals disallowed otherwise it would have been 8-0.
Port Vale rarely crossed the half way line and we just kept creating chance after chance (like an attack versus defence training session).
Leaving that match I felt emotional and actually had a tear in my eye.
Even at that early point of the season I'd seen enough of the new Wilder regime and was now 100% confident promotion was guaranteed and we were were finally leaving the depressing league 1.

Wilder had the player playing to a system, it was the same players and same style every week. I think a good analogy is "it's like giving a 10 year old kid a painting by numbers set, then admiring his art work". All our players looked good under Wilder but they were playing simple football within a team framework that became incredibly effective.

Heggie has a system but also relies on individual flair. Agree about another comment, sometimes our performances (as a team) haven't been the greatest but we have decent quality individuals who have more license to do something on an individual level.

 

[Teddy]

Strongly agree with this.

It's funny how those who said we 'got figured out' completely miss the point that the system was Basham and O'Connell. Without O'Connell the analogy I'd use is that we were like a bird with a broken wing.

So no, we didn't get figured out anymore than Liverpool got figured out when VVD got injured.

If Chris had prioritised a JOC replacement over Ramsdale and Brewster the season could have been very different.

In addition I'd also say the system was Bash, Jack AND Duffy. He largely got away with the latter when Lunny had his purple patch. But the system worked at it's absolute best with not only overloading out wide but also having a conductor in the final 3rd to also create possibilities through the middle as well as out wide.

Ironically with Gibbs-White's loan we might just have this at the moment.

Fully agree with this - was musing with a mate the other day that the JOC absence de-railed us both defensively and offensively. The defensive aspect would’ve been felt less if we hadn’t also lost Hendo. Ramsdale’s a talented lad but our established back four that understood each other almost telepathically was suddenly 50% changed. Never really recovered until the last few games.

 

[John Street West Terrace]

Heckball is a threesome with 2 dirty ladies but Wilderball at its pomp was a full on gangbang at the playboy mansion

 

[Bladeinleeds]

I think you need to over play a bit in the PL. teams are so dangerous on the ball that giving it away needlessly is more than likely to result in a big chances against you…. We’d never have got points on the board being loose with possession imo.

I think wilders tactics which hecky is folllowing are still effective. Certainly with the way the squad has been built. I do think even after our poor start in the PL, if wilder hadn’t short circuited and actually tried to inject some more creativity into the side (say a young promising n’daiye) we could have still made a first of staying up. I don’t think it would have been a stretch to get points out of some narrow defeats if we’d actually tried to win during that last season.

Our system is a good a basis to try and stay up with as it’s sound defensively and can still create - which gives you a chance in every match.

 

[Kev Gee]

Short memories!

We should never have gone with a flat 3 in midfield.

 

[Bennyand the Blades]

Much too early for a comparison debate between, Hecky and Co and Wilder and co ,
They are doing the best they can in difficult times with a mixed squad .
We're just starting a very hectic period of our season , playing two games a week against some of the teams above us and this is going to put a ;lot of stress on a squad that seems to be losing a player per game.
Brewster out and now McG and Hecky's already getting stick from some quarters for playing players out of position, even when we win..
Personally. I think they are doing a great job under very difficult circumstances, and long may it continue .......

 

[Champagneblade]

Heckball is a threesome with 2 dirty ladies but Wilderball at its pomp was a full on gangbang at the playboy mansion

Then you find out at the end one of them was a ladyboy

 

[BrisBlade]

I do like that Hecky did a proper January clear out of players who didn't fit. Getting a unified attitude across the squad is gold.

I loved watching us under Wilder, but while having a stable first eleven is good, I always thought we were a couple of injuries or dips in form away from disaster. We just didn't seem to have competition for a shirt outside of the strikers (particularly in the PL). I reckon we're building a bit of depth now.

 

[JJBlade]

I don’t really care about their relative tactics or philosophy. Wilder was found out because the premiership competition sussed his style and he had no plan B because it was beyond him. I’ll wager that, if he gets Boro up, the result will be the same. Warnock is another- great Championship charger but simply can’t cut it with the big boys. Hecky? Who knows- he might just be the man - I really hope so.

If a team has some style, swagger, ability, entertainment and something within its squad that does the unusual, it is almost certain that it will come from a foreigner.

We will see Wilders attitude to foreign players change immediately now that he's not our manager anymore

 

[CornwallBlade]

If a team has some style, swagger, ability, entertainment and something within its squad that does the unusual, it is almost certain that it will come from a foreigner.

We will see Wilders attitude to foreign players change immediately now that he's not our manager anymore

Well, I hope you’re wrong in the sense that Berge hasn’t exactly lit the park up. I do think we need pace in the attack and creativity in the 10 spot. I can only come to the conclusion, especially having seen it with my own boys, that the domestic system exists to drive out creativity on the alter of formulaic coaching. There’s no Gazza’s coming through our youth system.
I’d love to see us bring in some flair. There hasn’t been much since Curry……. Overseas players, yes please.

 

[Bladey_blade]

If a team has some style, swagger, ability, entertainment and something within its squad that does the unusual, it is almost certain that it will come from a foreigner.

We will see Wilders attitude to foreign players change immediately now that he's not our manager anymore

I know scousers talk funny but they are still English, (Duffy)

 

[Blade82]

This team is more like the pre-Coutts injury team. Good attacking style with a bit of a soft underbelly defensively.

We definitely attack the middle of the pitch more than we did, especially when MGW is available

Defensively we’re doing better, 10 league games under hecky and we’ve only conceded in 4 of those.

I think the Preston game was a turning point, 4 clean sheets from 5 after that.

It’s a similar response to us throwing away the win at Villa under wilder when it ended 3-3 after being 3 up, we went on a run after that and conceded very few.

 

[T-Blade]

Wilderball Mk2.

 

[The Bear]

I don’t really care about their relative tactics or philosophy. Wilder was found out because the premiership competition sussed his style and he had no plan B because it was beyond him. I’ll wager that, if he gets Boro up, the result will be the same. Warnock is another- great Championship charger but simply can’t cut it with the big boys. Hecky? Who knows- he might just be the man - I really hope so.

The game at Goodison last season, we played Everton off the pitch.

 

[The Bear]

Really ? Really ?


Some people have very very selective memories , i don't even think we have put in a complete performace as a team under Hecky yet

I think our individual quality is pulling us through more than the team

Always the recall the 4-1 demolition of Bruce's Villa at BDTBL, Duffy was brilliant. In that first half we were like bloody Brazil of the 1970's.

 

[CornwallBlade]

The game at Goodison last season, we played Everton off the pitch.

Errr, so you’re evidencing one game to support your entire hypothesis? We were great until lockdown but, frankly gash afterwards due to our “revolutionary” tactics being worked out, negated and Lord bleeding Wilder had no other plan.

 

[Champagneblade]

Errr, so you’re evidencing one game to support your entire hypothesis? We were great until lockdown but, frankly gash afterwards due to our “revolutionary” tactics being worked out, negated and Lord bleeding Wilder had no other plan.

I am always happy to disagree this matter point. We lost O'Connell. I didn't see any team come forward with a legitimate strategy to negate the overlapping centre backs whilst Jack was fit.

Wilder just didn't put enough emphasis on replacing him.

 

[nopigfansintown]

I am always happy to disagree this matter point. We lost O'Connell. I didn't see any team come forward with a legitimate strategy to negate the overlapping centre backs whilst Jack was fit.

Wilder just didn't put enough emphasis on replacing him.

Nobody came up with a counter strategy and they still haven't.Even when they tried, they asked their players to do a completely unique job for two games. This is obviously unlikely to be successful for them against a team that does the same thing every week. The greatest minds in football watched a dozen SUFC games before they played us and couldn't counter our tactics. In season two we played an orthordox 3-5-2 with a low block due to the loss of O'Connell. When our players played like everybody else we saw how good they really were on a technical level.The system is five years old and is still the talk of Europe and indeed the Championship. Teams use it; teams have taken it and developed it.It is a beautiful innovation.

 

[Old Programme seller]

We’ve yet to see Hecky’s transfers in the future and also when we lose how we respond there’s a lot of football to be played and instead of looking down at relegation we’re looking up.

 

[Pollingtonblade]

Preferred Dave Bassett's footie than any of those 2. I'm not a football purist so don't like all the fannying about. Our "up and at em" style was brilliant entertainment and exciting from the first to last minute. Great memories of the Bassett era.

Only in S2

 

[CornwallBlade]

Nobody came up with a counter strategy and they still haven't.Even when they tried, they asked their players to do a completely unique job for two games. This is obviously unlikely to be successful for them against a team that does the same thing every week. The greatest minds in football watched a dozen SUFC games before they played us and couldn't counter our tactics. In season two we played an orthordox 3-5-2 with a low block due to the loss of O'Connell. When our players played like everybody else we saw how good they really were on a technical level.The system is five years old and is still the talk of Europe and indeed the Championship. Teams use it; teams have taken it and developed it.It is a beautiful innovation.

Which teams? Just curious.

 

[nopigfansintown]

Which teams? Just curious.

I've seen Atalanta, Granada, Chelsea, Middlesbrough and Millwall all adopt it for at least some some games. There's probably more but I haven't watched too much football since the first lockdown - outside of the Blades. It's interesting that they're tweaked things at Middlesbrough already; I believe it was due due to personnel . They've come up with something else unique:

Overlapping runs and aggressive defending: How Chris Wilder has used his centre-backs at Middlesbrough – tactical analysis

Chris Wilder made a reputation for himself in English football during his time in charge of Sheffield United from 2016-2021.

totalfootballanalysis.com

 

[CornwallBlade]

I've seen Atalanta, Granada, Chelsea, Middlesbrough and Millwall all adopt it for at least some some games. There's probably more but I haven't watched too much football since the first lockdown - outside of the Blades. It's interesting that they're tweaked things at Middlesbrough already; I believe it was due due to personnel . They've come up with something else unique:

Overlapping runs and aggressive defending: How Chris Wilder has used his centre-backs at Middlesbrough – tactical analysis

Chris Wilder made a reputation for himself in English football during his time in charge of Sheffield United from 2016-2021.

totalfootballanalysis.com

Oh, OK so the same guy who got promo from the Championship with a formulaic style that got negated when he started playing against the big boys, is doing the same again…. Rinse and repeat jeez…. Boro will not last 2 seasons in the PL if he gets them up and stays in control

 

[nopigfansintown]

Oh, OK so the same guy who got promo from the Championship with a formulaic style that got negated when he started playing against the big boys, is doing the same again…. Rinse and repeat jeez…. Boro will not last 2 seasons in the PL if he gets them up and stays in control

No, it's the opposite: he's adapted to suit his current players. Have a look at that article.They played it for a short while and then designed another unique system that is going rather well for them and the players at their disposal.

All styles are formulaic by the way. Most managers are using really old fashioned formulas. The best are generally the managers that get these old fashioned formulas to work the best. This, of course, is usually the managers with the best, most expensive players. It's very rare to see something new in football.

 

[CornwallBlade]

OK, you make a fair point. We’ll see what happens. I may be wrong but I just think that Wilder is another in the long list of managers who settle on a style to get promoted but simply hasn’t got enough ability to compete against the best coaches in football. Obviously, budgets are a big factor but there are coaches who make it work despite this.

 

[blades14]

I've seen Atalanta, Granada, Chelsea, Middlesbrough and Millwall all adopt it for at least some some games. There's probably more but I haven't watched too much football since the first lockdown - outside of the Blades. It's interesting that they're tweaked things at Middlesbrough already; I believe it was due due to personnel . They've come up with something else unique:

Overlapping runs and aggressive defending: How Chris Wilder has used his centre-backs at Middlesbrough – tactical analysis

Chris Wilder made a reputation for himself in English football during his time in charge of Sheffield United from 2016-2021.

totalfootballanalysis.com

Atalanta was the first club to do this. Definitely before us