Heckingbottom v wilders football

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I think what will ultimately distinguish one from the other is not tactics, as they are alike in that regard, but rather transfer strategy.

If Hecky can produce football of quality anywhere close to peak 'Wilderball' but with a better transfer strategy, then we're onto a winner.

Of course you could say that Wilder had much more resources to play with than Hecky but that's the point, he squandered much of that on players who were ultimately ineffective.
 



I don’t really care about their relative tactics or philosophy. Wilder was found out because the premiership competition sussed his style and he had no plan B because it was beyond him. I’ll wager that, if he gets Boro up, the result will be the same. Warnock is another- great Championship charger but simply can’t cut it with the big boys. Hecky? Who knows- he might just be the man - I really hope so.
 
Duffy fit the jigsaw at the time but when we gained promotion he wasn’t at his best in fact he didn’t play regularly as a starter if I remember rightly, I’d say that we may have a better technical squad than 3 years ago but we don’t have the same drive and determination atm Wilder beating his chest and talking the talk brought atmosphere.
 
While there has been an improvement in results. The performances have only shown glimpses of the type of football we played in our first year in PL. The ship has been steadied but we are not creating enough clear cut chances to kill teams off. Most of us think that this is a very poor championship and most of the teams turning up at the lane have played poorly. We have laboured in a lot of games. We are improving but there is a long way to go. MGW has been excellent for us.But realistically we are not near the levels of performance of a few years ago. And with the aging midfielders we have we won't get that level of performance.
A playoff spot is looking more realistic. But playoffs are a lottery. Let's just hope that we keep improving and have our best performances at that time.
 
For me personally I think the football under heckingbottom is miles better than it was under wilder. Let the debate begin

Really ? Really ?


Some people have very very selective memories , i don't even think we have put in a complete performace as a team under Hecky yet

I think our individual quality is pulling us through more than the team
 
Surely it should be Hecky v Wilder/Knill.

You cant really compare one versus the other as Hecky only been in the job 5 minutes and its still evolving.
 
I'm not judging, but under Wilder I remember a game at the lane after the game Graham Souness said, 'I think I've just been watching Barcelona' first season in the Premier league, at the moment, hecky can't come close to that, not his fault, but that season was just unbelievable
 
Wilderball Mk2.


Not sure if you're putting that clip up as a positive or a negative?

That epitomised the worst aspect of our approach under CW IMHO. I counted at least 5 or 6 points where the ball should have been put in the box but instead was passed either back out wide or backwards. Yes it ended in a goal but more often than not that move would've ended far too similar to a hell of a lot of moves we saw under his reign.
 
Not sure if you're putting that clip up as a positive or a negative?

That epitomised the worst aspect of our approach under CW IMHO. I counted at least 5 or 6 points where the ball should have been put in the box but instead was passed either back out wide or backwards. Yes it ended in a goal but more often than not that move would've ended far too similar to a hell of a lot of moves we saw under his reign.

Its a really fucking boring passage of play that culminates in a cutback from the edge of the box and a goal. It's great when the goal comes, but 9 times out of 10 it ends up bobbling out for a goal kick and a load of groans from the fans.

Before our 600 pass goal I could hear the collective getting ready to have a right mard on. And without bias, I thought we looked a lot more probing and in control as we did it.
 
I'm liking the direction we are going in. Although I think our toughest challenges are deffo ahead of us. Just keep taking each game as it comes really.

Heckingbottom has us playing more like back to how wilder had us playing.
Its pretty similar footy and given the personnel are similar too it's not that surprising either.

Any differences that Heckingbottom has us doing overall are not yet that evident I'd say.

Wilder had us playing some truly excellent football for most of his tenure. We really shouldn't try to tarnish this as it was a really nice part of our recent history.

Heckingbottom has us back playing similar and it's a good base to go from especially with the bulk of this squad.

Genuinely I think Wilder and knill had a bit more of the unexpected at times.
However with the likes of mgw and NDiaye this gives us a different element especially at this level.
I think Heckingbottom is using the system set out by wilder pretty well at the moment but the onus is maybe more on the player rather than the system ever so slightly. I'm unsure if that's good or bad to be honest.

But whatever we think let's just keep taking each game as it comes. If we do well we will be rightfully right in contention.
 
The football played in our promotion from League One was probably the best under Wilder. The promotion season to the Premier League was the next best football played, until the 3-3 draw against Villa, where Wilder became more cautious after that and the team lost it's flow and swagger, despite continuing to win.

Hecky's football is good so far, as he leaves many players to do what comes instinctively to them, such as Bogle and Ndiaye, instead of over coaching them, but this good half/bad half crap needs to improve and some players also blow hot one week and cold the next, despite the amazing results. We just need to see a bit more consistency for my liking, but long may this streak continue.
 
Not sure if you're putting that clip up as a positive or a negative?

That epitomised the worst aspect of our approach under CW IMHO. I counted at least 5 or 6 points where the ball should have been put in the box but instead was passed either back out wide or backwards. Yes it ended in a goal but more often than not that move would've ended far too similar to a hell of a lot of moves we saw under his reign.
Neither I just saw it pop up on a Twitter feed so it fitted this thread. I totally agree with your assessment there was times "Wilderball" could be infuriating but he gave us a brilliant 4 years and it's time to move onto Heckyball😉.
 



I like Hecky. I think he's straightforward, unassuming and honest, and that's what we need after the shitshow of Wilder's departure and Jokanovic's arrival (and departure). He's articulate and appears to have the capability to think things through, and to be flexible and make changes if something's not working. It seems to be starting to click. There were times on Wednesday night that I felt comfortable with the idea that we were going to beat a team with the "quality" of West Brom, and I've not really felt that for a long time.
People used to talk about some managers and players being "cultured", both in football terms and because they appear to have had brains which functioned at a level where reading, studying and observing were thought to be useful attributes.
I see Hecky as being a bit like that, and I like him for that.
And because he's quietly inspiring a bit of pride and belief in the players and us fans, after such a bloody awful time.
 
Neither I just saw it pop up on a Twitter feed so it fitted this thread. I totally agree with your assessment there was times "Wilderball" could be infuriating but he gave us a brilliant 4 years and it's time to move onto Heckyball😉.

Yeah I really wasn't having a go mate. CW/AK gave us some of my favourite memories in all the years I've been following The Blades. I'm truly in the camp that the 1st few years were amazing but the last year was absolute dog turd. IMHO you can have that opinion. You don't have to be a Wilder lover or hater. You can appreciate the good times whilst criticising the bad times.

Even in the good times IMHO we tried to score the "perfect goal" far far too often and looked like we wanted to almost walk the ball into the net a bit like a poundland version of Arsenal under Wenger at times. It was almost like shots from outside the box or early crosses into the box were outlawed due to not wanting to surrender possession. That video was a prime example of a lot of our play under CW and I'm not sure looking back it was the best way to go.
 
Much too early to be comparing the 2 properly.
Wilder had us performing well for 3.5 seasons at a level that was very good and a style of play that probably shouldn't have worked (overlapping CBs etc) but seemed to bamboozle even the most accomplished of managers.
The tempo was high from start to finish with us not allowing the opposition any time to play and more often that not turning the ball over to us.
We attacked in numbers and created overloads down the wings with most/all attacks that opposition teams couldn't cope with.
At times there was definitely an element of overplay/overpassing at times but on the whole this helped us to control/dictate the tempo and flow of the game.
One of the things that I noticed during this time was that, particularly in the 2 Championship seasons, at times we would have a lot of the possession but if we didn't have Duffy on the pitch, we often struggled to find the "killer" pass despite all of the possession/pressure.
Ultimately when Wilder and Duffy had their fall out and we didn't replace him, I worried about how we would create enough chances in the Prem. As it was, the style of play (overlapping CBs/high press/overloads etc) worked pre lock down and we got some good results (usually winning by a single goal) but there was always the worry that we would not have the continuing good fortune of converting one or two of the clear cut chances that we were creating and the 1-0 wins would start turning into 1-0 defeats.
The apparent stubborn nature of Wilder in being reluctant to include the "flair" player was a big part in our downturn in fortunes. We didn't have anyone to turn the pressure into chances and it became a lot of passing for passing's sake and we had little way of penetrating defences. This in the second season in the Prem and the loss of failure to replace JOC, coupled with Wilders apparent change in mindset to a more attritional style of play resulted in us becoming a toothless tiger.

Hecky has been clever in identifying what worked well out of those first seasons of "wilderball" and using this as a template to work from. He has included a few players into the 1st 11 that are capable of beating a man in MGW and Ndiaye and we look a more potent attacking force. we also seem to be mixing the play more with some attacks utilising a Pass pass pass mentality but also a fair bit of getting it into the box early. Frustratingly we still haven't replaced JOC adequately and we have looked vulnerable in defence down the left (but it is improving). If he can continue to improve this and get more consistency in both halves of a game then he can achieve similar success.

One area that we havent been able to compare is transfers as its still too early.
Wilder initially got the majority of his signings right with an ability to spot bargains from the lower leagues. However when given decent money he tended to get things wrong in the majority of signings.
Time will tell if Hecky can be as astute in signing low fee players and making them stars for us.

For the time being, I am enjoying watching our team again!!
 
I have to disagree with a few posters who say that the style and tactics under Hecky are the same. They are different. Hecky is more flexible and adaptable, and not afraid to use flair players, and even encourages youth as sensible options. He has a great coaching team and that is paying dividends.
Early in their managerial careers, they are similar, but Hecky is doing more with less.
A promising start, from a guy who was not most fans first choice. More to come I hope.
 
I have to disagree with a few posters who say that the style and tactics under Hecky are the same. They are different. Hecky is more flexible and adaptable, and not afraid to use flair players, and even encourages youth as sensible options. He has a great coaching team and that is paying dividends.
Early in their managerial careers, they are similar, but Hecky is doing more with less.
A promising start, from a guy who was not most fans first choice. More to come I hope.
I was just going to post the same. Year we went up for instance, we played two up front with a no 10 in behind. We mixed personnel on who played which role. We are now effectively playing one up with two number 10s. Minor but so far effective tweet.
 
I was just going to post the same. Year we went up for instance, we played two up front with a no 10 in behind. We mixed personnel on who played which role. We are now effectively playing one up with two number 10s. Minor but so far effective tweet.
#Twitterball
 
It's pretty much the same style and system now as the pre-Premier League Wilder seasons, so I'd say there's no difference. Heckingbottom is actually using Wilder's system anyway by his own admission, so it's still Wilderball really.

This is much better to watch than last season though and even a lot of the year before, at a lower level, obviously. It shows how wrong Wilder was to ditch Duffy and never play a creative player ever again for United. That was one of his main downfalls for me, possibly even more so than his £130m spunkfest.
I think what will ultimately distinguish one from the other is not tactics, as they are alike in that regard, but rather transfer strategy.

If Hecky can produce football of quality anywhere close to peak 'Wilderball' but with a better transfer strategy, then we're onto a winner.

Of course you could say that Wilder had much more resources to play with than Hecky but that's the point, he squandered much of that on players who were ultimately ineffective.
Any comments have to be with the context that Chris did an excellent overall job when you look at where we were and where he left us.

He was excellent in season one, good in season two though it was disappointing how we fell away when Coutts was injured especially as he was allowed to sign Leonard, Evans and had already signed Lundstram so his signings even then were not infallible. His next two seasons were remarkable and the last one a disaster. Most of the ire a number of us have is based on some of his antics towards the end where he blotter his copy book a little, especially the shifting of blame and lack of acknowledgement of his poor dealings post promotion.

Hecky has made a superb start. He has proven to be an ideal antidote to all the things wrong with the Slav era.

He is deploying the resources he has to excellent effect. Something that Slav didn't do, and that Wilder did do for all but the final year.

His interviews are refreshingly honest and coherent, humble and not about him at all. Contrasting with Slav is no comparison. The latter's were incoherent and hard to listen to. I used to like Wilder's interviews, especially when it was the Blade in him shining through but I wasn't much of a fan when he was either complaining or making it about him and the job he'd done. There was a lot where he spoke of getting the best of the budget he had and that sort of stuff clearly bigging up himself and playing down the level of backing. End of the day he was Sheffield United manager. He was allowed to break the club's transfer record 6 times in little over 12 months (Freeman, Robinson, Mousset, McBurnie, Berge, Brewster). I think he should have been more grateful for that especially as there was a global pandemic of which he failed to ever really recognise the financial impact. He always seemed to appreciate the job Dyche does and he got no way near that level of backing.

Hecky seems far more measured in his comments and has handled the Sharp situation well despite the media trying to make trouble with their line of questioning. I'd get a bit ratty with them if they mentioned it again to be honest. He's made it clear it is a discussion for later when the future finances are clearer. Any more pressing from them is just mischief making plus United have an option anyway. Yes he'll stay but clearly there will be more in the pot should we go up than stay down.

His man management of Robinson has been very good too. He has held his nerve where many of us, myself included, would have blinked and left him out. As a result he's got a genuine rotational option there where he could have had a demotivated player out in the cold.

Transfers, I'm not against Davies or Goode and can see the logic and I admire his stance on not taking players where you are penalised for not playing them. Likewise he's been looking to offload the right players so no fault on his overall judgment. The sample size is too small to judge though.

Thoughts on his pre and post Prem signings is well documented. I will say that Wilder's selling was pretty poor. Firstly he failed to raise anything of note as a PL Manager and I'm sure he could have got money for Lundstram if he'd looked to sell in the summer and for a realistic fee.

Whilst we always argue that ends justified the means with squad construction, it is a little galling to see Ramsdale, Adams and Calvert-Lewin all be almost given away for a million or so each and are worth well over 100m collectively. Hindsight is a lovely thing you can argue, but that shows a tremendous lack of foresight for them all to go on to be 30m+ players and for us to offload so easily. You do wonder whether he couldn't have made concessions elsewhere and kept them within his set up and the club fully benefited from their appreciated value. He will defend this with results quite rightly. But blooding Ramsdale while he was on low money vs spending half his fee on Moore and much much more in wages worked for a season yet there is no saying Ramsdale couldn't have worked both short and long term. Leon gave us great memories but then you do wonder how useful having Calvert-Lewin and Adams would have worked out; imagine how an 80m+ strike force would have been useful last season! It could certainly have saved us lavishing 17m on McBurnie and either 7m on Robinson or 10m on Mousset. I suppose you don't make an omelet without breaking any eggs but the management did a poor job of recognising their potential.

Back to Hecky. To an extent, he's landed on his feet a little with the job and potential of the club to an but he did a decent audition in trying circumstances last season and I like how he's been happy to give Jebbison a run last season and N'Diaye this. His ability to handle young players seems good. I'm not overly convinced this was Wilder's strong point. We should have perhaps seen far more of Brooks during Wilder's time if he'd acknowledged his abilities sooner.

Encouraging signs for Hecky. I just hope he gets the bit of luck you need. He's shown himself capable of making brave calls. Fingers crossed he continues to reap the benefits. God knows we've suffered enough over the years!
 
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Wilder inherited a squad that was Billy Sharp away from being a league two club. Hecky inherited a squad that was a bad manager away from being a team automatically promoted from the Championship. Perspective... Wilder's football was arguably the most innovative in World football over four years of his tenure. A lot to live up too. Hecky's football thus far is less adventurous but is working well. Every player in the Wilder team played a part in the attacking movements.This team is relying more on MGW and Ndiaye to make something happen. What Hecky isn't is clueless; that would sum up his immediate predecessor.
 
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When we got promoted with Coutts, Fleck and Duffy. That was the best football I've seen us play. Got a while to go before we hit that. Although, I do like the young, skillful players we have now!
 
Agree....its a daft question.
Wilder played some the best football I've sen us play in 40 years.
First half at home to Man Utd we gave them a footballing lesson.
Away at Spurs when we were robbed we were by far the better team playing controlled passing football.

Mark my words...if Hecky loses 2 or 3...then he's a crap manager playing the worse football we've seen since Adkins.
We should judge him over a season....not 4 consecutive wins.

Regards Wilder football it was very formulaic....a bit like giving a young kid some painting by numbers then admiring his art work.
We were truly a team, so well drilled, everyone seemed to know where every other player would be without even looking but ironically it seems to thwart individuality. Team work can take you far...but at the top level you need quality individuals who can score from nothing.
All of what you describe in your last paragraph is the job of a top manager. It's pretty much the definition if you add in things like man management. Sprinkle a few quality players in with that formulaic brilliance and you have a top side. Don't have the above and you may have the Galacticos, but you won't have a top side. Give me a manager capable of installing a great formula with hungry, fit players over any alternative Sheffield United are ever likely to have.
We just had a guy who was used to blowing teams away with better players than all of his competitors in this league. When he took his teams to the premier league and he faced players of equal or better quality he was embarrassed. He's already been shown up by the work experience kid that understands the finer arts at SUFC: a pattern of play, fitness, hunger, togetherness.. The downfall of Sheffield United in the second season in the premier league wasn't the quality of players; it was the failure to continue to repeat the formula and pattern of play that we had mastered in the previous four years - or to implement a successful new pattern. Our players were, of course, nowhere near the technical ability of most of their counterparts in both years one and two in the PL. It was the manager and his staff that had us punching miles above our weight. If Wilder was guilty of anything it was underestimating how crucial JOC was in the pattern of play.
 
I was just going to post the same. Year we went up for instance, we played two up front with a no 10 in behind. We mixed personnel on who played which role. We are now effectively playing one up with two number 10s. Minor but so far effective tweet.
Remains to be seen IF we get promoted, the tactics may need to change. I think Heckinbottom has so far shown more flexibility in tactics and selection, mostly based on the opposition, home or away, and squad availability.
 



The downfall of Sheffield United in the second season in the premier league wasn't the quality of players; it was the failure to continue to repeat the formula and pattern of play that we had mastered in the previous four years - or to implement a successful new pattern. Our players were, of course, nowhere near the technical ability of most of their counterparts in both years one and two in the PL. It was the manager and his staff that had us punching miles above our weight. If Wilder was guilty of anything it was underestimating how crucial JOC was in the pattern of play.
Strongly agree with this.

It's funny how those who said we 'got figured out' completely miss the point that the system was Basham and O'Connell. Without O'Connell the analogy I'd use is that we were like a bird with a broken wing.

So no, we didn't get figured out anymore than Liverpool got figured out when VVD got injured.

If Chris had prioritised a JOC replacement over Ramsdale and Brewster the season could have been very different.

In addition I'd also say the system was Bash, Jack AND Duffy. He largely got away with the latter when Lunny had his purple patch. But the system worked at it's absolute best with not only overloading out wide but also having a conductor in the final 3rd to also create possibilities through the middle as well as out wide.

Ironically with Gibbs-White's loan we might just have this at the moment.
 

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