"Happy with what we've got…"

[wizadry]

3 pages of arguments about 'facts' so far.

1. Anybody considered the option that Clough is not as desperate for promotion as we are?
That he's quite happy to 'progress' in the same division and (he is sure) keep his job, in an easy environment.
A massive club in a piss pot league.
That he does not want to be in the position of Russell Slade - spending money and then being sacked after 7 league games because he's not pissing the league.

2. The assumption is that Ched must be coming - that he 'could not be that stupid'.
Well - he was last year!
How many strikers did he sign on the run in for last season - after letting the only decent one Miller leave?

3. Remind me. How many promotions has Clough achieved at League level?

How many have you had mate

To even suggest Cloughy doesn't want promotion is absolute ludicrous to say the least.

 

[itsinyerblood]

3 pages of arguments about 'facts' so far.

1. Anybody considered the option that Clough is not as desperate for promotion as we are?
That he's quite happy to 'progress' in the same division and (he is sure) keep his job, in an easy environment.
A massive club in a piss pot league.
That he does not want to be in the position of Russell Slade - spending money and then being sacked after 7 league games because he's not pissing the league.

2. The assumption is that Ched must be coming - that he 'could not be that stupid'.
Well - he was last year!
How many strikers did he sign on the run in for last season - after letting the only decent one Miller leave?

3. Remind me. How many promotions has Clough achieved at League level?

This is a cracker;

1. Have you considered that you're clueless?

2. Where have you been all these years? Please remind me of how Miller is tearing up this division?

3. Why do you need reminding when you obviously know the answer? Rhetorical questions are, at best, tiresome.

Your post is a borefest of predictable moaning, and considering some of the stuff that gets posted on here that's saying something. This type of repetitive nonsense offers nothing that hasn't been said far too many times before. When you have something that's worth contributing you'll find a far more receptive audience, as it stands, old news, old news, old news!

 

[moDtheGod]

3 pages of arguments about 'facts' so far.

1. Anybody considered the option that Clough is not as desperate for promotion as we are?
That he's quite happy to 'progress' in the same division and (he is sure) keep his job, in an easy environment.
A massive club in a piss pot league.
That he does not want to be in the position of Russell Slade - spending money and then being sacked after 7 league games because he's not pissing the league.

2. The assumption is that Ched must be coming - that he 'could not be that stupid'.
Well - he was last year!
How many strikers did he sign on the run in for last season - after letting the only decent one Miller leave?

3. Remind me. How many promotions has Clough achieved at League level?

Welcome back, Len.

 

[Darthblade]

The fact that people are still moaning after being 5 games unbeaten against teams that were tipped to do well this year is just embarrassing in my humble opinion. Peterborough have only lost one game so far this season and it was to us. Preston,at the time, were unbeaten and looked a very strong team when we played them and we did exceptionally well against them. Both teams will be in the top 6 along with us. We've had the toughest start out of the lot who are favourites and we've managed to bring in more points than I thought we would. In reality it is far too early to judge the team. Evidence of that is just look at last seasons table at this time. Anybody who can criticise Clough and the way he's going about things ought to actually go to a game. Rochdale were no pushovers and it's understandable that the team still needs to find its feet. This compulsive need for a 30 goal a season striker is odd. If you actually went to the game yesterday then it would be clear that if we had someone such as Ched's ilk in his last season for us, it wouldn't have made any difference to the score. We weren't great and there wasn't a bag full of chances.

I did go to the game vs Rochdale ( and Crawley ) and I can definitely confirm that an "Evans" ( or similar player of quality ) was EXACTLY what that game needed !!! We needed somebody with the ability, pace and strength to make something happen and that is what we do NOT have in the squad and have not had for years.
UTB & FTP

 

[cooperblade]

In 2008/09, we got pipped to promotion to the top flight by Birmingham who scored 54 goals and had (at a quick count) 11 x 1-0 wins.

 

[Revolution]

In 2008/09, we got pipped to promotion to the top flight by Birmingham who scored 54 goals and had (at a quick count) 11 x 1-0 wins.

Oh, well, one team got promoted scoring more than we managed last season and conceding less (37) than we've let in during any season in living memory. Promotion is certain.

That's an outlier. It might happen to us. Wouldn't it be better to sign a striker who can score goals or, here's a radical thought, actually pick one? That way we might score enough goals to get a top two place in a normal season.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

The bizarre thing is, if we were winning games 2-1 every week, it wouldn't get a mention yet 1-0 causes concern.

 

[Revolution]

The bizarre thing is, if we were winning games 2-1 every week, it wouldn't get a mention yet 1-0 causes concern.

Yes, because if you can only score once the defence has no margin for error, as people have been pointing out. Two goals gives you a one goal cushion.

That's not bizarre. It's a legitimate concern.

 

[cooperblade]

Oh, well, one team got promoted scoring more than we managed last season and conceding less (37) than we've let in during any season in living memory. Promotion is certain.

That's an outlier. It might happen to us. Wouldn't it be better to sign a striker who can score goals or, here's a radical thought, actually pick one? That way we might score enough goals to get a top two place in a normal season.

Like I've said before, statistically a clean sheet is more valuable in terms of points than a goal. Why not sign a top defender (who will be cheaper) than a striker?

 

[Revolution]

Like I've said before, statistically a clean sheet is more valuable in terms of points than a goal. Why not sign a top defender (who will be cheaper) than a striker?

We aren't going to do that. We had one and sold him.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

Yes, because if you can only score once the defence has no margin for error, as people have been pointing out. Two goals gives you a one goal cushion.

That's not bizarre. It's a legitimate concern.

Surely you have as much room for error at 1-0 as you do 2-1

 

[Revolution]

Surely you have as much room for error at 1-0 as you do 2-1

Jim, last time I checked, if you go 2-0 up and they score, and then the game ends, you win.

If you go 1-0 up and they score, and the game ends, you don't.

Jesus wept.

And to change the subject slightly, the most goals a Clough team scored in a season at Derby? 65, when they finished 10th.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

Jim, last time I checked, if you go 2-0 up and they score, and then the game ends, you win.

If you go 1-0 up and they score, and the game ends, you don't.

Jesus wept.

And to change the subject slightly, the most goals a Clough team scored in a season at Derby? 65, when they finished 10th.

Yes, but I said 2-1 not 2-0.

Of course I get your point, I'm just saying that there's a stigma about winning games 1-0 and there wouldn't be the same worries or nashing of teeth if we were winning games 2-1. As Coops says, the counter argument is that if you don't concede a goal you're guaranteed at least a point.

Agree about Clough, said it before, that's the way his teams play, suited us last year but this is a different season with different expectations.

 

[alcoblade]

Yes, but I said 2-1 not 2-0.

Of course I get your point, I'm just saying that there's a stigma about winning games 1-0 and there wouldn't be the same worries or nashing of teeth if we were winning games 2-1.

Because in quite a few of those games Jim, you'd have been winning 2 - 0 as Rev alludes to. There's no need for the same teeth nashing then.

In the end, the stigma comes because we just don't score enough goals - and is there really any debate there?

UTB

 

[Rollerball]

In all honesty, re the goal scoring (or lack thereof) I'm not happy no, I would love us to be steaming teams 4-0 every week, but that's unlikely.
Having said that, we aren't playing well, consistency is patchy to nonexistent, we seem to have a couple of players having stormers then mediocre, not always same player, we are not scoring buckets of goals and yet we are doing reasonably well, a mere 2 points short of the 2 points per game average, apparently needed for automatic promotion, and in the next 6 days even that could be rectified, and even taking this into consideration and the fact that from what I've seen if most of the players play as well as they have shown in spells, there are still some fans far from satisfied, why?
I've said before, there are sections of blades fans that if we wrapped up the premier league title in march took both FA and league cup and went on to spank real/barca/ bayern in the champions league would still complain if we had another (insert playing position here) we could have won prem in feb.
Get a grip, we are a third tier team playing third tier teams, it is NOT going to be pretty or easy, so forget this billy big bollox shit, that's for other teams, and get behind clough and the lads win,lose or draw and personally I think you will see a big upturn in play and results.
UTB

 

[Rodders]

In all honesty, re the goal scoring (or lack thereof) I'm not happy no, I would love us to be steaming teams 4-0 every week, but that's unlikely.
Having said that, we aren't playing well, consistency is patchy to nonexistent, we seem to have a couple of players having stormers then mediocre, not always same player, we are not scoring buckets of goals and yet we are doing reasonably well, a mere 2 points short of the 2 points per game average, apparently needed for automatic promotion, and in the next 6 days even that could be rectified, and even taking this into consideration and the fact that from what I've seen if most of the players play as well as they have shown in spells, there are still some fans far from satisfied, why?
I've said before, there are sections of blades fans that if we wrapped up the premier league title in march took both FA and league cup and went on to spank real/barca/ bayern in the champions league would still complain if we had another (insert playing position here) we could have won prem in feb.
Get a grip, we are a third tier team playing third tier teams, it is NOT going to be pretty or easy, so forget this billy big bollox shit, that's for other teams, and get behind clough and the lads win,lose or draw and personally I think you will see a big upturn in play and results.
UTB

Why does a valid concern we are not scoring enough goals equate to "Billy Big Bollox shit"?

 

[Zanzibar]

If you actually went to the game yesterday then it would be clear that if we had someone such as Ched's ilk in his last season for us, it wouldn't have made any difference to the score. We weren't great and there wasn't a bag full of chances. Quote


Not true.
Ched made many of his own goals from two thirds up the pitch by receiving and scaring defences by running at or across them.

 

[Rollerball]

Why does a valid concern we are not scoring enough goals equate to "Billy Big Bollox shit"?

Rodders, the fact is some sections of our fan base seem to believe we should be spanking teams such as Rochdale , not the fact we aren't scoring enough, my point was not the lack of goals but the fact that we should as a 4th season league 1 club with history and stature have a Devine right to beat "lesser clubs" comprehensively, forgetting totally we ARE a lesser club now and until we get out of this league we will be.
Thinking like that makes us no better than the people of south Barnsley, every point we win will be hard fought for not given to us because we are sheffield united, and thinking we should be easily beating teams in our league is why I talked of forgetting billy big bollox.

 

[Kenilworth]

In all honesty, re the goal scoring (or lack thereof) I'm not happy no, I would love us to be steaming teams 4-0 every week, but that's unlikely.
Having said that, we aren't playing well, consistency is patchy to nonexistent, we seem to have a couple of players having stormers then mediocre, not always same player, we are not scoring buckets of goals and yet we are doing reasonably well, a mere 2 points short of the 2 points per game average, apparently needed for automatic promotion, and in the next 6 days even that could be rectified, and even taking this into consideration and the fact that from what I've seen if most of the players play as well as they have shown in spells, there are still some fans far from satisfied, why?
I've said before, there are sections of blades fans that if we wrapped up the premier league title in march took both FA and league cup and went on to spank real/barca/ bayern in the champions league would still complain if we had another (insert playing position here) we could have won prem in feb.
Get a grip, we are a third tier team playing third tier teams, it is NOT going to be pretty or easy, so forget this billy big bollox shit, that's for other teams, and get behind clough and the lads win,lose or draw and personally I think you will see a big upturn in play and results.
UTB

Tosh - Utter and complete Tosh - That's an excuse not a validation on why we are not capable of scoring more than one goal a game.

I actually expect us to be challenging for an automatic promotion spot this season - nothing less is really acceptable after spending three unsuccessful years in a division we shouldn't be touching. This is not Billy Big Bollocks, it is a sense of proportion. Sheffield United is not a club that attracts 3,000 home supporters for home games - it is one of the top 25 supported clubs in the UK from an actual attendance perspective - we should have the resources to overcome the opposition - too long have we been the ones just not competing or allowing the plucky underdogs to match us and do us over.

The other point I would like to make is that I don't want to scrape a promotion again, coming second to the runaway leaders - We all know what our play off chances are - foregone conclusion. Instead I'd like to be that runaway leader team and smash all before us. I don't have a god given right to that but equally I shouldn't be told to accept mediocrity and lower my expectations - bollocks to that.

I am a Blade - Proud to be a Blade - Not Massive but Mighty - So I want to see some of this Mighty palaver please. Not a fucking whimper and a shed load of excuses. Fucking do 'em.

 

[Cyprus Blade]

Like I've said before, statistically a clean sheet is more valuable in terms of points than a goal. Why not sign a top defender (who will be cheaper) than a striker?

I am not sure I follow the logic of this one.

In the days of goal average (goals for divided by goals against) this statement was partially true but since that was replaced by goal difference there is no statistical merit in a 1-0 win over a 2-1 win. (eg under GA a team scoring 70 while conceding 40 would have a worse goal average (1.750) than a team scoring 69 and conceding 39 (1.769). For the team that has scored 70 and conceded 40, conceding another would reduce the goal average by 0.043 (to 1.707), but scoring another would increase it by only 0.025 (to 1.775), making not conceding much more important than scoring again). Since the introduction of GD in the seventies that defensive bias has been removed and 1-0 and 2-1 both change the GD by +1.

In fact the statistical merit is in favour attacking sides (so 2-1 is better) since, if teams are level on goal difference, it goes to the team with the highest number of goals scored (eg 1988-89 Arsenal won the title beating Liverpool by goals scored - same points, same GD). So from a statistical point of view 5-4 is marginally better than 2-1, but I think we would all be concerned if we had a gung ho attitude and a defence that shipped 4 goals.

There is perhaps a psychological merit in a clean sheet, but equally so there is in being able to score goals for fun. In the end picking up points is most important, but GD comes into it (ahead of goals scored) - having a brilliant goal difference can be worth a point come the end of the season and it is self evident that 2-0's and 3-0's are much better all round than 1-0's and 2-1's even though you only get 3 points for them. Were it not for goal difference the Blades would have been second division champions in 1988-89 instead of runners-up.

 

[judge]

Tosh - Utter and complete Tosh - That's an excuse not a validation on why we are not capable of scoring more than one goal a game.

I actually expect us to be challenging for an automatic promotion spot this season - nothing less is really acceptable after spending three unsuccessful years in a division we shouldn't be touching. This is not Billy Big Bollocks, it is a sense of proportion. Sheffield United is not a club that attracts 3,000 home supporters for home games - it is one of the top 25 supported clubs in the UK from an actual attendance perspective - we should have the resources to overcome the opposition - too long have we been the ones just not competing or allowing the plucky underdogs to match us and do us over.

The other point I would like to make is that I don't want to scrape a promotion again, coming second to the runaway leaders - We all know what our play off chances are - foregone conclusion. Instead I'd like to be that runaway leader team and smash all before us. I don't have a god given right to that but equally I shouldn't be told to accept mediocrity and lower my expectations - bollocks to that.

I am a Blade - Proud to be a Blade - Not Massive but Mighty - So I want to see some of this Mighty palaver please. Not a fucking whimper and a shed load of excuses. Fucking do 'em.

Brilliant post mate
My sentiments exactly

 

[Rollerball]

Tosh - Utter and complete Tosh - That's an excuse not a validation on why we are not capable of scoring more than one goal a game.

I actually expect us to be challenging for an automatic promotion spot this season - nothing less is really acceptable after spending three unsuccessful years in a division we shouldn't be touching. This is not Billy Big Bollocks, it is a sense of proportion. Sheffield United is not a club that attracts 3,000 home supporters for home games - it is one of the top 25 supported clubs in the UK from an actual attendance perspective - we should have the resources to overcome the opposition - too long have we been the ones just not competing or allowing the plucky underdogs to match us and do us over.

The other point I would like to make is that I don't want to scrape a promotion again, coming second to the runaway leaders - We all know what our play off chances are - foregone conclusion. Instead I'd like to be that runaway leader team and smash all before us. I don't have a god given right to that but equally I shouldn't be told to accept mediocrity and lower my expectations - bollocks to that.

I am a Blade - Proud to be a Blade - Not Massive but Mighty - So I want to see some of this Mighty palaver please. Not a fucking whimper and a shed load of excuses. Fucking do 'em.

My apologies ken, I never realised the size of attendances actually made a difference to which league or in fact amount of wins or goals scored, I thought it had something to do with players, you know scoring goals, winning games etc my mistake.
We are in this league on merit, not expectation or attendances or how nice our pies are.
We all would love the blades to be runaway leaders, and as I said above IF the players fire on all cylinders together that might just happen, but expecting that to happen just because we get 25th highest attendances or because our ground is premiership class is in your words tosh, and just says to everyone we think we are better than we are and deserve to be out of this division, which is acting billy big bollox and until we realise we have no right to be anywhere other than league 1 until we earn it by winning games then here's an expectation for you, get used to league 1 mate.
As for accepting mediocrity, I'm a realist and the reality is we are a mediocre side until proven other wise.

 

[alcoblade]

I've said before, there are sections of blades fans that if we wrapped up the premier league title in march took both FA and league cup and went on to spank real/barca/ bayern in the champions league would still complain if we had another (insert playing position here) we could have won prem in feb.
Get a grip, we are a third tier team playing third tier teams, it is NOT going to be pretty or easy, so forget this billy big bollox shit, that's for other teams, and get behind clough and the lads win,lose or draw and personally I think you will see a big upturn in play and results.
UTB

You've got your wires crossed fella. We're talking about the amount of goals we score against the teams around us. Putting aside the fact that we have far more resource, (because it's another issue) our competitors score more than we do.

If you want to get angry, and least do it in the right direction.

UTB

 

[Rollerball]

You've got your wires crossed fella. We're talking about the amount of goals we score against the teams around us. Putting aside the fact that we have far more resource, (because it's another issue) our competitors score more than we do.

If you want to get angry, and least do it in the right direction.

UTB

I thought I was replying to kens reply telling me because we have bigger attendances we should be top of the table, and the op was about current happiness.
As for not scoring that I guess comes under original post and as stated no I'm not happy but I'm not going to brandish the "we are bigger than you so must be better" stick because we aren't ATM
Not angry at all old boy, just replying

 

[wizadry]

My apologies ken, I never realised the size of attendances actually made a difference to which league or in fact amount of wins or goals scored, I thought it had something to do with players, you know scoring goals, winning games etc my mistake.
We are in this league on merit, not expectation or attendances or how nice our pies are.
We all would love the blades to be runaway leaders, and as I said above IF the players fire on all cylinders together that might just happen, but expecting that to happen just because we get 25th highest attendances or because our ground is premiership class is in your words tosh, and just says to everyone we think we are better than we are and deserve to be out of this division, which is acting billy big bollox and until we realise we have no right to be anywhere other than league 1 until we earn it by winning games then here's an expectation for you, get used to league 1 mate.
As for accepting mediocrity, I'm a realist and the reality is we are a mediocre side until proven other wise.

We will be a mediocre side while ever we buy mediocre players mate,which tbh we shouldn't be doing with our budget,especially when you compare our budget to Rochdale's budget.It has nothing to do with attendances but they do help lead to a team having a bigger budget than that of a club with all due respect like Rochdale.My conclusion is,with our supposable money available we shouldn't have a divine right to beat them,but it should certainly be helping us to beat them a bit more convincingly as we should have the devine right to buy better players than them.

 

[Rollerball]

We will be a mediocre side while ever we buy mediocre players mate,which tbh we shouldn't be doing with our budget,especially when you compare our budget to Rochdale's budget.It has nothing to do with attendances but they do help lead to a team having a bigger budget than that of a club with all due respect like Rochdale.My conclusion is,with our supposable money available we shouldn't have a divine right to beat them,but it should certainly be helping us to beat them a bit more convincingly as we should have the devine right to buy better players than them.

I think you have a point except we aren't, clubs like Rochdale mk etc on what would appear far smaller budgets seem to get better scouted players, hungrier players, which beggars the question why?
Surely we have a better scouting network, higher resources to pinpoint these players, so why is it we get what appears on the whole to be mediocre players while mk, Rochdale etc seem to unearth goal scorers season after season.

 

[wizadry]

I think you have a point except we aren't, clubs like Rochdale mk etc on what would appear far smaller budgets seem to get better scouted players, hungrier players, which beggars the question why?
Surely we have a better scouting network, higher resources to pinpoint these players, so why is it we get what appears on the whole to be mediocre players while mk, Rochdale etc seem to unearth goal scorers season after season.

Them questions i can not answer Rollerball ,wish i could but i can't.

 

[Kenilworth]

My apologies ken, I never realised the size of attendances actually made a difference to which league or in fact amount of wins or goals scored, I thought it had something to do with players, you know scoring goals, winning games etc my mistake.
We are in this league on merit, not expectation or attendances or how nice our pies are.
We all would love the blades to be runaway leaders, and as I said above IF the players fire on all cylinders together that might just happen, but expecting that to happen just because we get 25th highest attendances or because our ground is premiership class is in your words tosh, and just says to everyone we think we are better than we are and deserve to be out of this division, which is acting billy big bollox and until we realise we have no right to be anywhere other than league 1 until we earn it by winning games then here's an expectation for you, get used to league 1 mate.
As for accepting mediocrity, I'm a realist and the reality is we are a mediocre side until proven other wise.

Yep, we are here on merit
Don't have a God given right to anything, tick.
Doesn't stop me expecting more or demanding more and that should not be a problem.
The better resourced clubs tend to be performing better than those with fewer resources, with the odd exception. I am just demanding that we begin to buck the trend we have forged over the last 40 years of pretty much bucking the trend the wrong way around.

Keep accepting mediocrity if you like.
I believe that Clough will sort us out and am really looking forward to it. I can see the signs but I want to see us be more ruthless in front of goal and I want the club to address the glaring issue in our squad and that is a goal scorer or two. We are solid at the back. We are creating lots of chances now. JCR is on fire at the moment. That's very encouraging but I shouldn't be shouted down for wanting or indeed expecting more. They are my team. They are your team. We want the same, I am sure of that. It maybe that I am more demanding - I have the right to be. I accept where we are at the moment That's the reality but you were basically telling me I have no right to want more. That's Tosh.

 

[judge]

I bet our budget is not that much bigger than the average for league one , dont know why people think it is

 

[SandyMcBlade]

A good question that Rollerball, it's a bit like the one about giving youth a chance and playing all these up and coming players that are coming through, where have they all gone ?