Guardian report on our terrible season...

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I'd love the top 6 to bugger off into a European league .
There support after a couple of years would be crying to come back
As a blade I like to go home and away everywhere . If the blades played in European league I'd probably only be able to afford a couple of away games a season .
I'm a fan of football on the pitch not the television
 
Revolution said:
There are four different sets of fans for English clubs now.

There are fans of teams who are not the Big Horrible clubs. Like us on here. They are irrelevant to the people running football and the media companies that broadcast it.

Then there are fans of the Big Horrible Clubs who actually attend games regularly. They are slightly more important than the first category of fans, but not by much.

Then there are fans of the Big Horrible Clubs who come once or twice a season. They are more important than the regular fans and season ticket holders, because they will pay a lot more for a ticket, and spend in the club shop. Their existence is why Liverpool don't sell many season tickets, or Spurs and West Ham are trying to price OAPs and locals out. They make more money from Koreans.

Then there are armchair fans of Big Horrible Clubs. They are the ones who are important, because they drive the broadcasting, which brings the most money. It doesn't matter where they live.

This hierarchy is why we won't have cup replays, and have the bloated Champions League, and VAR, and 5 subs, and FFP loaded in favour of clubs already spending. It will stay like this until the armchair fans go away, which isn't going to happen any time soon.
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Whilst I agree with the article at the moment, I'm sure Fulham fans, Brentford fans, and Bournemouth fans are enjoying life more than they were a couple of years ago, having established themselves. Other than VAR, I'm not sure many complaints we have at the moment applied to us in 2019-20.

If Luton stay up, I'm sure they'll say they've enjoyed this season. Heck, they'll probably say they enjoyed it even if they go down.

The PL is crap if you're crap. But if you can escape the black hole of crapness, then there's satisfaction there...even if you're Crystal Palace.
 
ton-up said:
Luton and their fans appear to be enjoying this season within the EPL, you don't hear much complaining from Brentford fans either.
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Luton are enjoying this season because it's shiny and new. Brentford definitely aren't. Brighton aren't. Forest aren't. Everton aren't. Palace aren't. Premier League fans are by far the most miserable ones in any league. Type in the hashtags of any club below the top 6 and you'll find loads of examples of fans being bored with being in the league. Brighton are a great example. There is a thread on their forum about how uninspiring they have found this season. They have peaked. They know they can't get any higher.

Fans know there is only so high you can go. The only dream the majority of the clubs in England have is being a Crystal Palace, a club who's fans are constantly talking about how dull it is to support them.
 
Geordie Blade said:
That was Matthew Syed.

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I hadn’t seen the link before.

What I liked about the link was that our very own Deadbat was clearly so irked, just like the argumentative bloke in the pub getting something off his chest “and another thing…” he had not one, not two, but three bites of the cherry in going back at him! Bravo!
 
billyblademan said:
Whilst I agree with the article at the moment, I'm sure Fulham fans, Brentford fans, and Bournemouth fans are enjoying life more than they were a couple of years ago, having established themselves. Other than VAR, I'm not sure many complaints we have at the moment applied to us in 2019-20.

If Luton stay up, I'm sure they'll say they've enjoyed this season. Heck, they'll probably say they enjoyed it even if they go down.

The PL is crap if you're crap. But if you can escape the black hole of crapness, then there's satisfaction there...even if you're Crystal Palace.
Click to expand...
Spot on.
 

Revolution said:
There are four different sets of fans for English clubs now.

There are fans of teams who are not the Big Horrible clubs. Like us on here. They are irrelevant to the people running football and the media companies that broadcast it.

Then there are fans of the Big Horrible Clubs who actually attend games regularly. They are slightly more important than the first category of fans, but not by much.

Then there are fans of the Big Horrible Clubs who come once or twice a season. They are more important than the regular fans and season ticket holders, because they will pay a lot more for a ticket, and spend in the club shop. Their existence is why Liverpool don't sell many season tickets, or Spurs and West Ham are trying to price OAPs and locals out. They make more money from Koreans.

Then there are armchair fans of Big Horrible Clubs. They are the ones who are important, because they drive the broadcasting, which brings the most money. It doesn't matter where they live.

This hierarchy is why we won't have cup replays, and have the bloated Champions League, and VAR, and 5 subs, and FFP loaded in favour of clubs already spending. It will stay like this until the armchair fans go away, which isn't going to happen any time soon.
Click to expand...

The FA cup decision over replays is just another step into letting the big boys go to their super league (and cream off more money from football) while still running the show in England. Because let’s not pretend the PL,FA and PGMOL are in charge.
 
Revolution said:
There are four different sets of fans for English clubs now.

There are fans of teams who are not the Big Horrible clubs. Like us on here. They are irrelevant to the people running football and the media companies that broadcast it.

Then there are fans of the Big Horrible Clubs who actually attend games regularly. They are slightly more important than the first category of fans, but not by much.

Then there are fans of the Big Horrible Clubs who come once or twice a season. They are more important than the regular fans and season ticket holders, because they will pay a lot more for a ticket, and spend in the club shop. Their existence is why Liverpool don't sell many season tickets, or Spurs and West Ham are trying to price OAPs and locals out. They make more money from Koreans.

Then there are armchair fans of Big Horrible Clubs. They are the ones who are important, because they drive the broadcasting, which brings the most money. It doesn't matter where they live.

This hierarchy is why we won't have cup replays, and have the bloated Champions League, and VAR, and 5 subs, and FFP loaded in favour of clubs already spending. It will stay like this until the armchair fans go away, which isn't going to happen any time soon.
Click to expand...
That's true and I agree, but it's short-sighted of clubs to price out locals in favour of tourists. Football on TV is terrible without the local fanbase who support the club, go to away games, know the songs etc. Look at the games during lockdown. It was a terrible watch. It wouldn't take long for TV companies to decide the Premier League wasn't the product for them at the price they were paying.

One of the few things our owner (and previous ones) has done right is keep ticket prices reasonable, especially for the younger generation which you need. It's ok pricing out the youngsters and OAPs in the short term to get the day trippers in paying full price and buying the merch, but long-term you've lost a generation who would have attended no matter what and those who would take the youngsters with them. It wouldn't take many bad seasons for the day-trippers to decide not to bother and they'd rather go and watch another team who were at the top of the league instead.

That might change if a European League was formed. Fans wouldn't / couldn't attend away matches and then you would be relying a lot more on tourists, but if the games are always against other 'big' teams you'll more likely to attract them and could also charge more.

As an aside, I went to Man City with my son and sat in their posh seats a few years ago as a friend of a friend has seats and neither could attend so offered them to us, anyway, the amount of Japanese tourists there was unbelievable. They literally spent the whole game standing up in this area, facing away from the pitch in order to take selfies, talking and taking photos of each other, but they all had club bags, new shirts etc. Must have spent a fortune. It was very annoying and I actually felt sorry for the proper old Man City fans in that area who must have to contend with that every week. Don't get that in G-Block.
 
billyblademan said:
Whilst I agree with the article at the moment, I'm sure Fulham fans, Brentford fans, and Bournemouth fans are enjoying life more than they were a couple of years ago, having established themselves. Other than VAR, I'm not sure many complaints we have at the moment applied to us in 2019-20.

If Luton stay up, I'm sure they'll say they've enjoyed this season. Heck, they'll probably say they enjoyed it even if they go down.

The PL is crap if you're crap. But if you can escape the black hole of crapness, then there's satisfaction there...even if you're Crystal Palace.
Click to expand...
Do you genuinely believe Fulham are enjoying this season more than the years they were scoring loads of goals and winning games in the Championship?
 
Carlton Blade said:
Do you genuinely believe Fulham are enjoying this season more than the years they were scoring loads of goals and winning games in the Championship?
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Especially at the prices they're being asked to pay, which is just obscene and has priced a lot of normal fans out.
 
ton-up said:
Luton and their fans appear to be enjoying this season within the EPL, you don't hear much complaining from Brentford fans either.
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You didn't from us when we first went up in 2019. The PL has become much worse in the last 5 years than the previous 23 or so of its invention tbf
 
Roygbiv said:
Luton are enjoying this season because it's shiny and new. Brentford definitely aren't. Brighton aren't. Forest aren't. Everton aren't. Palace aren't. Premier League fans are by far the most miserable ones in any league. Type in the hashtags of any club below the top 6 and you'll find loads of examples of fans being bored with being in the league. Brighton are a great example. There is a thread on their forum about how uninspiring they have found this season. They have peaked. They know they can't get any higher.

Fans know there is only so high you can go. The only dream the majority of the clubs in England have is being a Crystal Palace, a club who's fans are constantly talking about how dull it is to support them.
Click to expand...
I remember reading an article by Fatty Samuel (he of Uber cunt fame) saying this exact thing. Unless you're in the top 6/8 theres a ceiling and once you hit it, the only way is down. Bolton did it, Stoke did it, even West Brom danced with a top 10 finish, Portman won an FA Cup.

Unless you're backed by a literal Billionaire or a Sovereign State, you're only ever a bad managerial appointment and selling your star player away from mid table Championship mediocrity...
 
Revolution said:
There are four different sets of fans for English clubs now.

There are fans of teams who are not the Big Horrible clubs. Like us on here. They are irrelevant to the people running football and the media companies that broadcast it.

Then there are fans of the Big Horrible Clubs who actually attend games regularly. They are slightly more important than the first category of fans, but not by much.

Then there are fans of the Big Horrible Clubs who come once or twice a season. They are more important than the regular fans and season ticket holders, because they will pay a lot more for a ticket, and spend in the club shop. Their existence is why Liverpool don't sell many season tickets, or Spurs and West Ham are trying to price OAPs and locals out. They make more money from Koreans.

Then there are armchair fans of Big Horrible Clubs. They are the ones who are important, because they drive the broadcasting, which brings the most money. It doesn't matter where they live.

This hierarchy is why we won't have cup replays, and have the bloated Champions League, and VAR, and 5 subs, and FFP loaded in favour of clubs already spending. It will stay like this until the armchair fans go away, which isn't going to happen any time soon.
Click to expand...
Good example of this : my son-in-law, bless him, waited 10 years to get a Man Utd season ticket. He's got a decent seat and goes to every game, however they are moving him at the end of the season to accommodate more hospitality seating. No say in it whatsoever, that's how the regular game attending fan is treated. I told him I'd have wrote to the club to tell them where they can shove their season ticket.
 
IdLiketoRogerMoore said:
I remember reading an article by Fatty Samuel (he of Uber cunt fame) saying this exact thing. Unless you're in the top 6/8 theres a ceiling and once you hit it, the only way is down. Bolton did it, Stoke did it, even West Brom danced with a top 10 finish, Portman won an FA Cup.

Unless you're backed by a literal Billionaire or a Sovereign State, you're only ever a bad managerial appointment and selling your star player away from mid table Championship mediocrity...
Click to expand...

Yeah, the disillusionment of Premier League fans is growing and growing. People see it as the dream but once you've been there a few years the novelty has worn off. People thinking mid to lower placed teams are enjoying things should just take a quick look on their forums. Preston fans more optimistic than Brighton fans. That can't be right.
 
Roygbiv said:
Yeah, the disillusionment of Premier League fans is growing and growing. People see it as the dream but once you've been there a few years the novelty has worn off. People thinking mid to lower placed teams are enjoying things should just take a quick look on their forums. Preston fans more optimistic than Brighton fans. That can't be right.
Click to expand...
Worth saying that fans of the top 6/7 are often unhappy as well. With that financial power comes huge expectations but there's only ever 3 domestic trophies to compete for so at any given point most of them are seen to be failing.

Guardiola and Man City have raised the bar so high in the league that now any draw feels like a loss for the other sides trying to compete. Most of their fans were against the super league (notably the Chelsea protests) and at the very top you're competing with literal nation states so there's another financial chasm to bridge there.

It might be the most miserable league in the world
 
sheepbridge said:
That's true and I agree, but it's short-sighted of clubs to price out locals in favour of tourists. Football on TV is terrible without the local fanbase who support the club, go to away games, know the songs etc. Look at the games during lockdown. It was a terrible watch. It wouldn't take long for TV companies to decide the Premier League wasn't the product for them at the price they were paying.

One of the few things our owner (and previous ones) has done right is keep ticket prices reasonable, especially for the younger generation which you need. It's ok pricing out the youngsters and OAPs in the short term to get the day trippers in paying full price and buying the merch, but long-term you've lost a generation who would have attended no matter what and those who would take the youngsters with them. It wouldn't take many bad seasons for the day-trippers to decide not to bother and they'd rather go and watch another team who were at the top of the league instead.

That might change if a European League was formed. Fans wouldn't / couldn't attend away matches and then you would be relying a lot more on tourists, but if the games are always against other 'big' teams you'll more likely to attract them and could also charge more.

As an aside, I went to Man City with my son and sat in their posh seats a few years ago as a friend of a friend has seats and neither could attend so offered them to us, anyway, the amount of Japanese tourists there was unbelievable. They literally spent the whole game standing up in this area, facing away from the pitch in order to take selfies, talking and taking photos of each other, but they all had club bags, new shirts etc. Must have spent a fortune. It was very annoying and I actually felt sorry for the proper old Man City fans in that area who must have to contend with that every week. Don't get that in G-Block.
Click to expand...

"...As an aside, I went to Man City with my son and sat in their posh seats a few years ago as a friend of a friend has seats and neither could attend so offered them to us, anyway, the amount of Japanese tourists there was unbelievable...."

I often used to be flying out of the country, on a Monday morning, from Manchester airport. If I was flying to any of the big Nordic cities (like Stockholm or Copenhagen or Oslo), the gate, before boarding, would be full of people in Liverpool, Man Utd. or Man City shirts, going back home after a weekend over here. The last time I stayed in a hotel for a weekend in Manchester (last year, for a birthday event we attended), the hotel and all the bars and restaurants nearby, were all full of foreign tourists in Man Utd or Man City shirts. It must be a huge money spinner for the clubs and the city itself.
 
Roygbiv said:
Yeah, the disillusionment of Premier League fans is growing and growing. People see it as the dream but once you've been there a few years the novelty has worn off. People thinking mid to lower placed teams are enjoying things should just take a quick look on their forums. Preston fans more optimistic than Brighton fans. That can't be right.
Click to expand...
It's a valid point. I've got a couple of Tottenham and West Ham supporting mates and they really are in the hinterland between simply existing and competing.

The whole premise of the English Premier League is how competitive it is and that narrative is pushed and pushed - but the reality is you can pretty much pick who the top 3 will be beforehand with 4-8 being the only competition. And even then it's the same 4 or 5 clubs.

Maybe once Klopp and Guardiola leave it will even out again, but you know realistically what the top 6 will be and it'll just be reshuffling that same turgid pack of mercenary sides.

With the recent rule changes, the top 8 really have made it more of a closed shop than ever and being frankly honest, it's a pretty shit closed shop. Johnny Liew is right, it's an abusive relationship and we're only there to be a punchbag for these 'elite' super clubs....

Right on that cheery bombshell, I'm off to find a homeless guy to punch in the kidneys
 

Grappler said:
"...As an aside, I went to Man City with my son and sat in their posh seats a few years ago as a friend of a friend has seats and neither could attend so offered them to us, anyway, the amount of Japanese tourists there was unbelievable...."

I often used to be flying out of the country, on a Monday morning, from Manchester airport. If I was flying to any of the big Nordic cities (like Stockholm or Copenhagen or Oslo), the gate, before boarding, would be full of people in Liverpool, Man Utd. or Man City shirts, going back home after a weekend over here. The last time I stayed in a hotel for a weekend in Manchester (last year, for a birthday event we attended), the hotel and all the bars and restaurants nearby, were all full of foreign tourists in Man Utd or Man City shirts. It must be a huge money spinner for the clubs and the city itself.
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When we lived in Didsbury in the 00's every Man Utd home game would see a massive influx of Irish folk over for the game. The bars/pubs of South Manchester would be heaving from Friday night through to Sunday afternoon...
 
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