Great Expectations

[HappyBlade]

Just musing about how clubs fall from the heights of the Prem to the state Leeds, Wednesday and even Newcastle find themselves in.

It almost seems like a stage by stage collapse.

1. It seems to start from an infrastructure problem, the board almost follow the vocal fans unreasonable expectations. This was particularly prevelent at Newcastle where I spent the last four years. The fans there moan about lack of success when playing attractive football, they get in Alladice, they moan about the style of football, the board trys to placate the fans enter Keegan. The whole thing then goes horribly wrong because the manager wants what the board can't deliver so the board try to force out the manager through the back door (constructive dissmissal).

2. Enter the madness phase of trying different managers to rescue the situation (Venables at Leeds, Shearer at Newcastle, can't remember don't care the pigs it might have been Fat Ron). The financial constrainsts at this period become crippling. Particularly at the pigs with the two Italian fellows.
Bradford did it with Collymore. These managers try to salve a situation which is now out of hand. Again the boards are trying desperately to placate the fans.

3. Relegation.

4. Trying desperately to get back at first attempt, despite little Sky money and a small paracute payment. Newcastle are lucky they can afford to be bank-rolled the pigs, Bradford and Leeds could not.

5. If it fails they still have a squad they can't afford and no-one else will pay the wages of so they have to keep them, deeper and deeper.

All this was down to unrealistic fan expectations that the boards tried to meet or that the boards acted like fans to achieve (Ridsdale).

So hopefully McCabe and Blackie will continue to ballance the books and keep debt realistic and not act on the whims of fans with unrealistic ambitions that would cripple us.

N.B. I will follow the Blades if they go to the conference, but I will be happy to see them develop as well. I'm not going to constantly berate and get on the back of the players blackie or McCabe because it can have catestrophic consequencesas above.

 

[Linz]

I think it's a balance with a fine margin of error either way.

I know for me, the examples you give are what would make me unhappy as a Blade, more so than occasionally playing shit football but remaining there or there-abouts.

I know others would like us to take more of a risk.

I do think though that the longer we're out of the Premiership, the harder it is going to be to integrate yourself there, which must ultimately be the aim.

With that it mind, I don't envy McCabe at all.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

The problem we have Linz is that we have dipped our toe in 'success river' so many times in the last 10-15 years and generally failed and this, I think, has affected the way the current generation of fans look at the team. The older fans tend to be more patient as they've seen a lot of this before and have also seen the club turn things around. I dread to think how the fans these days would have coped with our fall to the 4th.

 

[Linz]

I dread to think how the fans these days would have coped with our fall to the 4th.

It might just be my experience, but along with the excitable kids who boo at the first opportunity, I have witnessed a lot of discontent amongst those who most certainly are old enough to remember the 4th division, whether they were there to witness it or not.

I think that a lot of older fans are getting increasingly impatient because they have never seen us win anything beyond the fourth tier of English football.

As much as many of the kids have bought into the "sky soccer" phenomena, a lot of the older ones are voicing the same grumbles but for different motivations.

 

[Deleted member 1486]

With respect, you can't compare Leeds, Wednesday and Newcastle with our situation. All of them were established Premier League teams who were buying international players on huge lengthy contracts to try and compete towards the top end of the table. They were all expecting to stay up, so they spent the TV/sponsorship/gate money in advance of the next 3, 4 or 5 seasons. It's completely reckless of course, but that's probably what most (all?) midtable Prem teams do (who don't have the luxury of a Russian/Saudi billionaire), even now.

Bradford, well, when things went wrong they were always going to come crashing down to earth with a bump. The signings (such as Petrescu, Carbone and Collymore) were crazy for a team who'd gone through three managers in a year and were expected to flirt with relegation. They gambled big and lost big.

As for choping and changing the manager, you're right to a degree. Most clubs who go tumbling down the league have changed manager every year, not allowing any of them to leave their mark on the team. But at the same time, if the man in charge isn't the right man then it's better to change him than let the rot set in. It's not so much a balancing act as making sure your man is the right one. Robson certainly wasn't an astute decision, personally I don't think Blackwell is/was either, but that's another discussion.

Balancing the books is fine. I think most people would understand if we needed to do that. The problem has been, of late, that nobody will come out and say that's what is needed. The chairman (who I do think is the best chairman we've had in our recent history, but that doesn't make him beyond reproach), denies any accsusation that we're a selling club and deflects any comments about our finances with rhetoric about his grand plans like building a property empire, international feeder clubs, stadium expansion and hosting World Cup games. Those things are all well and good, but they are either financed indepedently of the football sqaud (in which case they aren't a valid reply to questions about selling players) or we're selling our best players to fund secondary projects.

If the press reports of the upper limits of the West Ham settlement and Naughton/Walker sale is anything close to reality we're £30,000,000 up on this time last year (I appreciate we don't get that money in one large chunk). I can't imagine any team around us has had such a large cash injection (and that figure doesn't include the sales of previous years, which I believe were profitable, even during Robson's short stay), yet we start the season with half a squad and have to fill in the blanks with loanees and free has-beens (none of whom, of course, have any resale value!). All things considered, something isn't right and we're not being told about it. I dread the day McCabe say's we're not a selling club and we're not going to sell any more players, because we'll probably flog Morgan and Monty the very next day (see Beattie, Naughton, Walker, etc). Oh and Blackwell has set himself up as the fallguy by not talking about any of this in the press. Going into a season with 2 central defenders makes him look inept, if there was financial pressure from above he should have the balls to come out in the press and say so!

By the way, I'm not questioing McCabe's honesty, I'm questioning his strategy.

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

Charles Dickens' finest hour.

 

[SwintonBlade2]

I've heard a rumour or two circulating that might go some way to explaining why we appear to be a selling club, and have so many loan players, with no one signing new contract deals...

...the story is that there is the possibility of a large investment from foreign climbs! (Think it's something to do with the largest shipping company in dubai?) So at the moment the club is in limbo, McCabe and the board do not want to spend the money we have on the sort of players we could currently attract that probably wouldn't be a great improvement on what we have, because it may be the case that in a few months we will have a huge injection of cash to spend on better players. This is also apparently the reason why Killa has been stalling on signing a deal, not because he wants to go... but because he wants a long-term deal and the club is reluctant to enter into long-term deals and new contracts until we know where we stand in terms of the investment. Apparently Steve Coppell was at Bramall Lane recently too which was linked to this investment possibility!

A different source also told me that there was a smaller, possibly sponsorship related link with Red Bull in the pipeline too, when a say smaller I mean upwards of £5mil...

I don't know how reliable this information is but the source seems to know alot of random things and have insight into alot of goings on at the lane... and he's usually right with what he tells us! Not sure how I'd welcome a foreign investment as they can be dangerous things, but...

...watch this space!

 

[Kev Gee]

If we were skint, id rather the club came out & said it. Then at least people would know were we stood. And maybe Blackwell wouldnt get as much stick? On the investment rumours im feet first in the 'I'll believe it when i see it camp'

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

It might just be my experience, but along with the excitable kids who boo at the first opportunity, I have witnessed a lot of discontent amongst those who most certainly are old enough to remember the 4th division, whether they were there to witness it or not.

I think that a lot of older fans are getting increasingly impatient because they have never seen us win anything beyond the fourth tier of English football.

As much as many of the kids have bought into the "sky soccer" phenomena, a lot of the older ones are voicing the same grumbles but for different motivations.

Oh yeah, I'm not saying the older fans aren't as bad at times, nor that we can pigeonhole fans so easily. I defy any longstanding fan to have supported us purely through good times, at least none that are still alive !

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

I've heard a rumour or two circulating that might go some way to explaining why we appear to be a selling club, and have so many loan players, with no one signing new contract deals...

Never say never but it sounds like someone coming up with a story. We've had to cut our cloth accordingly in the last 12 months due to loss of sky money and the financial climate. We've sold two kids for very good money and one of our senior pro's is holding out for a better deal. I don't think there's anything more to it than that.

 

[HoodedClaw]

The club also make a rod for their own back when they keep saying we're a premiership club with a premiership ground etc etc and the only thing we're missing is premiership football, which they have been doing since we got shafted by West Ham.

This helps to increase fans expectations, and opens the door for the club/Chairman/Manager to get grief.

A bit of open communication is maybe whats required, but then if there's nothing concrete to say its best saying nothing I suppose.

Imagine what it would be like if they come out and say we've basically got a massive foreign investment plan in place that will ease all our problems and allow us to invest in quality players, fans start celebrating, only for the following week the club come out and say its all fallen through, cue the "Same Owd Same Owd..." "Typical Blades..." "McCabe and Blackwell out" and they end up with more grief.

I believe that McCabe has Uniteds best interests at heart, while making some money which I dont have a problem with, its just in this fickle football world we live in it becomes very hard to manage fans expectations whether by the club or the fans themselves.

Now get that foreign money invested I wanna win the Premier League in 2 years, Champions League in 3 years and the World cup in 2014

 

[bladesadviser]

Quote
A different source also told me that there was a smaller, possibly sponsorship related link with Red Bull in the pipeline too, when a say smaller I mean upwards of £5mil...

Red Bull are trying to get clubs all over Europe. It normally involves the team either changing its name to incorporate "Red Bull" and/or changing the stadium name. There is an interesting article in this months When Saturday Comes about their latest purchase in Leipzig

 

[ghandi]

I've heard a rumour or two circulating that might go some way to explaining why we appear to be a selling club, and have so many loan players, with no one signing new contract deals...

...the story is that there is the possibility of a large investment from foreign climbs! (Think it's something to do with the largest shipping company in dubai?) So at the moment the club is in limbo, McCabe and the board do not want to spend the money we have on the sort of players we could currently attract that probably wouldn't be a great improvement on what we have, because it may be the case that in a few months we will have a huge injection of cash to spend on better players. This is also apparently the reason why Killa has been stalling on signing a deal, not because he wants to go... but because he wants a long-term deal and the club is reluctant to enter into long-term deals and new contracts until we know where we stand in terms of the investment. Apparently Steve Coppell was at Bramall Lane recently too which was linked to this investment possibility!

A different source also told me that there was a smaller, possibly sponsorship related link with Red Bull in the pipeline too, when a say smaller I mean upwards of £5mil...

I don't know how reliable this information is but the source seems to know alot of random things and have insight into alot of goings on at the lane... and he's usually right with what he tells us! Not sure how I'd welcome a foreign investment as they can be dangerous things, but...

...watch this space!

Don't want to piss on your strawberries but this has shades of the pigs and Sheard and a carefully crafted "leaked" rumour to quell any discontent.

 

[beechblade]

There was something on the blades page about the Shipping a while back Jim, though I think it was only a sponorship deal.

 

[matth]

That would be GAC, sponsors of the GAC Stand.

 

[beechblade]

Yes and I believe they are the very shipping company he's talking about, so I don't know if there will be any large investment.

It seems highly unlikely, thanks Matth

 

[beechblade]

Found the link now

http://www.sufc.co.uk/page/Affiliates/0,,10418~1757379,00.html

 

[HappyBlade]

http://www.gacworld.com/templates/gac_Template.aspx?id=2085

Impressive until you realise GAC are the small vessel in the picture.
GAC are agents and not particularly massive.

 

[Mary Christmas]

A little review of Dicken's Great Expectations:

(character) Compeyson - A criminal and the former partner of (character)Magwitch. Compeyson is an educated, gentlemanly outlaw who contrasts sharply with the coarse and uneducated Magwitch. Compeyson is responsible for Magwitch’s capture at the end of the novel. He is also the man who jilted (character) Miss Havisham on her wedding day.

For Compeyson substitute McCabe; for Magwitch substitute Blackwell and for Miss Havisham substitute Us Lot!

Mary Christmas