GoalWatch vs Aston Villa/midfield AWOL

[Bergen Blade]

Defence and defenders seem to be singled out for criticism, but it's a recurring theme that our midfield is AWOL too often. Today's starting formation was 5-2-3. We were hoping that a front three and high pressing would prevent them from playing out from the back. We started all right, but couldn't keep it up, and consequently our 2-man midfield wasn't enough to stop Villa's lethal counter attacking.

So, let's have a look at the five goals, and how our midfield failed to provide the protection that is absolutely vital at this level, especially when our defenders aren't world class.

1st: Luiz gets on the ball behind our midfield. He is unchallenged and can put Watkins through.



2nd: Our attack has broken down and again Luiz is unchallenged and superbly plays Watkins through:



3rd: Trusty has pushed up without winning the ball; Watkins gets on the ball behind our midfield. He plays it in behind for Bailey, who runs at panicking defenders who fails to stop him.



4th: Following two successive set pieces Tielemans is bizzarly allowed to shoot unchallenged twice and his second effort is brilliant.




5th: A messy goal. Villa's key pass is this one, and as can be seen we don't have two traditional departments that the opposition has to break through. RND is closing down the man on the ball hitting the key pass. Trusty has broken out of he backline, focusing on Tielemans dropping deep. AA is pretty much on his own against Watkins again, and Holgate is caught in noman's land. So the midfield at the time is again awol - Brooks further forward, Souza and Hamer more central.

So again Villa's man on the ball has the space to pick his pass, in behind for Watkins to race on to, putting AA in a difficult situation. The man on the ball isn't closed down well enough for him to push up and try to play Watkins offside, and then he is pretty much left on his own against a forward who is excellent in these situations. A few things happen after the screenshot below, but it is another situation where Villa's midfield are unchallenged to pick out the run in behind, and we fail to regain control.



Could we have done anything different?


Looking at the photo below, we look back-heavy against a team with one central striker. Five men, how are they not able to deal with him? Well, partly because our midfield was inadequate. Even here, when we have switched to a 5-3-2, we are still unable to put pressure on their defenders while preventing them passing options in midfield.

Our plan was for our midfield to push onto their central midfield playmakers, and then let our wide centre halves to push up to challenge players finding space behind our midfield. Tielemans roamed around in this area and caused problems, Watkins dropped deep and showed great strength, and it just became messy and disorganised as defenders broke out of the line without winning the ball.






In hindsight, I would have moved Holgate into midfield to have an extra body there to challenge and deal with Villa's supply line. Maybe that could have enabled a back four to concentrate more (as in pulling together centrally) and keep in control of the space in behind, rather than being forced to decide who's gonna push up, also leaving space behind himself, when do they stay high, etc. Souza and Brooks was inadequate, and it didn't help much moving McAtee a bit deeper.

We finished the match stronger. Obviously Villa had taken the foot of the gas, but it also helped having more solid players in midfield (Davies, Souza and Osborn). I think this match, like our last PL campaign under Wilder, shows that a back five won't automatically make us hard to score against. Being competitive in midfield is going to be key for us to finish the season in a decent manner.

 

[Bladezz]

Basically Souza is nowhere near it. Ever.

 

[Bladezz]

But a very good thread!

 

[bakeblade]

Defence and defenders seem to be singled out for criticism, but it's a recurring theme that our midfield is AWOL too often. Today's starting formation was 5-2-3. We were hoping that a front three and high pressing would prevent them from playing out from the back. We started all right, but couldn't keep it up, and consequently our 2-man midfield wasn't enough to stop Villa's lethal counter attacking.

So, let's have a look at the five goals, and how our midfield failed to provide the protection that is absolutely vital at this level, especially when our defenders aren't world class.

1st: Luiz gets on the ball behind our midfield. He is unchallenged and can put Watkins through.

View attachment 178571

2nd: Our attack has broken down and again Luiz is unchallenged and superbly plays Watkins through:

View attachment 178573

3rd: Trusty has pushed up without winning the ball; Watkins gets on the ball behind our midfield. He plays it in behind for Bailey, who runs at panicking defenders who fails to stop him.

View attachment 178574

4th: Following two successive set pieces Tielemans is bizzarly allowed to shoot unchallenged twice and his second effort is brilliant.


View attachment 178575

5th: A messy goal. Villa's key pass is this one, and as can be seen we don't have two traditional departments that the opposition has to break through. RND is closing down the man on the ball hitting the key pass. Trusty has broken out of he backline, focusing on Tielemans dropping deep. AA is pretty much on his own against Watkins again, and Holgate is caught in noman's land. So the midfield at the time is again awol - Brooks further forward, Souza and Hamer more central.

So again Villa's man on the ball has the space to pick his pass, in behind for Watkins to race on to, putting AA in a difficult situation. The man on the ball isn't closed down well enough for him to push up and try to play Watkins offside, and then he is pretty much left on his own against a forward who is excellent in these situations. A few things happen after the screenshot below, but it is another situation where Villa's midfield are unchallenged to pick out the run in behind, and we fail to regain control.

View attachment 178576

Could we have done anything different?


Looking at the photo below, we look back-heavy against a team with one central striker. Five men, how are they not able to deal with him? Well, partly because our midfield was inadequate. Even here, when we have switched to a 5-3-2, we are still unable to put pressure on their defenders while preventing them passing options in midfield.

Our plan was for our midfield to push onto their central midfield playmakers, and then let our wide centre halves to push up to challenge players finding space behind our midfield. Tielemans roamed around in this area and caused problems, Watkins dropped deep and showed great strength, and it just became messy and disorganised as defenders broke out of the line without winning the ball.



View attachment 178579


In hindsight, I would have moved Holgate into midfield to have an extra body there to challenge and deal with Villa's supply line. Maybe that could have enabled a back four to concentrate more (as in pulling together centrally) and keep in control of the space in behind, rather than being forced to decide who's gonna push up, also leaving space behind himself, when do they stay high, etc. Souza and Brooks was inadequate, and it didn't help much moving McAtee a bit deeper.

We finished the match stronger. Obviously Villa had taken the foot of the gas, but it also helped having more solid players in midfield (Davies, Souza and Osborn). I think this match, like our last PL campaign under Wilder, shows that a back five won't automatically make us hard to score against. Being competitive in midfield is going to be key for us to finish the season in a decent manner.

I was staggered we kept to a back 5 all game

 

[Servigliano]

Defence and defenders seem to be singled out for criticism, but it's a recurring theme that our midfield is AWOL too often. Today's starting formation was 5-2-3. We were hoping that a front three and high pressing would prevent them from playing out from the back. We started all right, but couldn't keep it up, and consequently our 2-man midfield wasn't enough to stop Villa's lethal counter attacking.

So, let's have a look at the five goals, and how our midfield failed to provide the protection that is absolutely vital at this level, especially when our defenders aren't world class.

1st: Luiz gets on the ball behind our midfield. He is unchallenged and can put Watkins through.

View attachment 178571

2nd: Our attack has broken down and again Luiz is unchallenged and superbly plays Watkins through:

View attachment 178573

3rd: Trusty has pushed up without winning the ball; Watkins gets on the ball behind our midfield. He plays it in behind for Bailey, who runs at panicking defenders who fails to stop him.

View attachment 178574

4th: Following two successive set pieces Tielemans is bizzarly allowed to shoot unchallenged twice and his second effort is brilliant.


View attachment 178575

5th: A messy goal. Villa's key pass is this one, and as can be seen we don't have two traditional departments that the opposition has to break through. RND is closing down the man on the ball hitting the key pass. Trusty has broken out of he backline, focusing on Tielemans dropping deep. AA is pretty much on his own against Watkins again, and Holgate is caught in noman's land. So the midfield at the time is again awol - Brooks further forward, Souza and Hamer more central.

So again Villa's man on the ball has the space to pick his pass, in behind for Watkins to race on to, putting AA in a difficult situation. The man on the ball isn't closed down well enough for him to push up and try to play Watkins offside, and then he is pretty much left on his own against a forward who is excellent in these situations. A few things happen after the screenshot below, but it is another situation where Villa's midfield are unchallenged to pick out the run in behind, and we fail to regain control.

View attachment 178576

Could we have done anything different?


Looking at the photo below, we look back-heavy against a team with one central striker. Five men, how are they not able to deal with him? Well, partly because our midfield was inadequate. Even here, when we have switched to a 5-3-2, we are still unable to put pressure on their defenders while preventing them passing options in midfield.

Our plan was for our midfield to push onto their central midfield playmakers, and then let our wide centre halves to push up to challenge players finding space behind our midfield. Tielemans roamed around in this area and caused problems, Watkins dropped deep and showed great strength, and it just became messy and disorganised as defenders broke out of the line without winning the ball.



View attachment 178579


In hindsight, I would have moved Holgate into midfield to have an extra body there to challenge and deal with Villa's supply line. Maybe that could have enabled a back four to concentrate more (as in pulling together centrally) and keep in control of the space in behind, rather than being forced to decide who's gonna push up, also leaving space behind himself, when do they stay high, etc. Souza and Brooks was inadequate, and it didn't help much moving McAtee a bit deeper.

We finished the match stronger. Obviously Villa had taken the foot of the gas, but it also helped having more solid players in midfield (Davies, Souza and Osborn). I think this match, like our last PL campaign under Wilder, shows that a back five won't automatically make us hard to score against. Being competitive in midfield is going to be key for us to finish the season in a decent manner.

Agree save I thought we played a narrow 3 in midfield which gave Villa the freedom on both flanks. Brooks was completely lost. Not a criticism of him, all 3 midfielders were run rings round. Wilder's fault IMHO.
5-3-2 or 3-5-2 only worked because we had Basham in his prime and O'Connoll, and also good wingbacks.
Midfield formation is the problem, not so much the defenders.
Against W Ham we had cohesion in a midfield 4

 

[Richeee]

Perhaps Chris can address the midfield problem in the jtw...oh bugger

 

[bertieblade]

Souza is the only one of our midfield three capable of putting a foot in, Brooks and McAtee, especially Mcatee are not capable and as suggested Holgate should have been moved into the middle with Souza, putting a rooks and McAtee wide whilst adopting a 442.

wilder eventually went to a 442 and we looked better, and he did admit to getting it wrong in his post match interview. Pity he seems to start quite a few matches with the wrong players in the wrong formation.

 

[TankersleyBlade]

I was shocked by our setup first half which left Souza almost on his own in midfield, supported occasionally when a defender was pulled out of position or one of Brooks and McAtee managed to support him. Strangely for the first few minutes our overload of forward players allowed us to press quite effectively and look reasonably threatening. After the first goal we just fell apart. If our midfield can’t press the ball and our defenders can’t track runners then we’re f***ed, and we well and truly were.

Almost to a man simply not good enough and tactically poorly set up today.

 

[Carlton Blade]

Defence and defenders seem to be singled out for criticism, but it's a recurring theme that our midfield is AWOL too often. Today's starting formation was 5-2-3. We were hoping that a front three and high pressing would prevent them from playing out from the back. We started all right, but couldn't keep it up, and consequently our 2-man midfield wasn't enough to stop Villa's lethal counter attacking.

So, let's have a look at the five goals, and how our midfield failed to provide the protection that is absolutely vital at this level, especially when our defenders aren't world class.

1st: Luiz gets on the ball behind our midfield. He is unchallenged and can put Watkins through.

View attachment 178571

2nd: Our attack has broken down and again Luiz is unchallenged and superbly plays Watkins through:

View attachment 178573

3rd: Trusty has pushed up without winning the ball; Watkins gets on the ball behind our midfield. He plays it in behind for Bailey, who runs at panicking defenders who fails to stop him.

View attachment 178574

4th: Following two successive set pieces Tielemans is bizzarly allowed to shoot unchallenged twice and his second effort is brilliant.


View attachment 178575

5th: A messy goal. Villa's key pass is this one, and as can be seen we don't have two traditional departments that the opposition has to break through. RND is closing down the man on the ball hitting the key pass. Trusty has broken out of he backline, focusing on Tielemans dropping deep. AA is pretty much on his own against Watkins again, and Holgate is caught in noman's land. So the midfield at the time is again awol - Brooks further forward, Souza and Hamer more central.

So again Villa's man on the ball has the space to pick his pass, in behind for Watkins to race on to, putting AA in a difficult situation. The man on the ball isn't closed down well enough for him to push up and try to play Watkins offside, and then he is pretty much left on his own against a forward who is excellent in these situations. A few things happen after the screenshot below, but it is another situation where Villa's midfield are unchallenged to pick out the run in behind, and we fail to regain control.

View attachment 178576

Could we have done anything different?


Looking at the photo below, we look back-heavy against a team with one central striker. Five men, how are they not able to deal with him? Well, partly because our midfield was inadequate. Even here, when we have switched to a 5-3-2, we are still unable to put pressure on their defenders while preventing them passing options in midfield.

Our plan was for our midfield to push onto their central midfield playmakers, and then let our wide centre halves to push up to challenge players finding space behind our midfield. Tielemans roamed around in this area and caused problems, Watkins dropped deep and showed great strength, and it just became messy and disorganised as defenders broke out of the line without winning the ball.



View attachment 178579


In hindsight, I would have moved Holgate into midfield to have an extra body there to challenge and deal with Villa's supply line. Maybe that could have enabled a back four to concentrate more (as in pulling together centrally) and keep in control of the space in behind, rather than being forced to decide who's gonna push up, also leaving space behind himself, when do they stay high, etc. Souza and Brooks was inadequate, and it didn't help much moving McAtee a bit deeper.

We finished the match stronger. Obviously Villa had taken the foot of the gas, but it also helped having more solid players in midfield (Davies, Souza and Osborn). I think this match, like our last PL campaign under Wilder, shows that a back five won't automatically make us hard to score against. Being competitive in midfield is going to be key for us to finish the season in a decent manner.

Starting with 2 CMs today, against the best counter attacking team in the league was tactical suicide. Doubly so, seen as we'd seen just 6 weeks ago what was required to keep Villa out.

Extremely frustrating to see how poorly the team was prepared

 

[bakeblade]

Souza is the only one of our midfield three capable of putting a foot in, Brooks and McAtee, especially Mcatee are not capable and as suggested Holgate should have been moved into the middle with Souza, putting a rooks and McAtee wide whilst adopting a 442.

wilder eventually went to a 442 and we looked better, and he did admit to getting it wrong in his post match interview. Pity he seems to start quite a few matches with the wrong players in the wrong formation.

Did we go to a back 4? I thought we kept a 5 with Trusty going over to LWB

 

[Addison]

Defence and defenders seem to be singled out for criticism, but it's a recurring theme that our midfield is AWOL too often. Today's starting formation was 5-2-3. We were hoping that a front three and high pressing would prevent them from playing out from the back. We started all right, but couldn't keep it up, and consequently our 2-man midfield wasn't enough to stop Villa's lethal counter attacking.

So, let's have a look at the five goals, and how our midfield failed to provide the protection that is absolutely vital at this level, especially when our defenders aren't world class.

1st: Luiz gets on the ball behind our midfield. He is unchallenged and can put Watkins through.

View attachment 178571

2nd: Our attack has broken down and again Luiz is unchallenged and superbly plays Watkins through:

View attachment 178573

3rd: Trusty has pushed up without winning the ball; Watkins gets on the ball behind our midfield. He plays it in behind for Bailey, who runs at panicking defenders who fails to stop him.

View attachment 178574

4th: Following two successive set pieces Tielemans is bizzarly allowed to shoot unchallenged twice and his second effort is brilliant.


View attachment 178575

5th: A messy goal. Villa's key pass is this one, and as can be seen we don't have two traditional departments that the opposition has to break through. RND is closing down the man on the ball hitting the key pass. Trusty has broken out of he backline, focusing on Tielemans dropping deep. AA is pretty much on his own against Watkins again, and Holgate is caught in noman's land. So the midfield at the time is again awol - Brooks further forward, Souza and Hamer more central.

So again Villa's man on the ball has the space to pick his pass, in behind for Watkins to race on to, putting AA in a difficult situation. The man on the ball isn't closed down well enough for him to push up and try to play Watkins offside, and then he is pretty much left on his own against a forward who is excellent in these situations. A few things happen after the screenshot below, but it is another situation where Villa's midfield are unchallenged to pick out the run in behind, and we fail to regain control.

View attachment 178576

Could we have done anything different?


Looking at the photo below, we look back-heavy against a team with one central striker. Five men, how are they not able to deal with him? Well, partly because our midfield was inadequate. Even here, when we have switched to a 5-3-2, we are still unable to put pressure on their defenders while preventing them passing options in midfield.

Our plan was for our midfield to push onto their central midfield playmakers, and then let our wide centre halves to push up to challenge players finding space behind our midfield. Tielemans roamed around in this area and caused problems, Watkins dropped deep and showed great strength, and it just became messy and disorganised as defenders broke out of the line without winning the ball.



View attachment 178579


In hindsight, I would have moved Holgate into midfield to have an extra body there to challenge and deal with Villa's supply line. Maybe that could have enabled a back four to concentrate more (as in pulling together centrally) and keep in control of the space in behind, rather than being forced to decide who's gonna push up, also leaving space behind himself, when do they stay high, etc. Souza and Brooks was inadequate, and it didn't help much moving McAtee a bit deeper.

We finished the match stronger. Obviously Villa had taken the foot of the gas, but it also helped having more solid players in midfield (Davies, Souza and Osborn). I think this match, like our last PL campaign under Wilder, shows that a back five won't automatically make us hard to score against. Being competitive in midfield is going to be key for us to finish the season in a decent manner.

Good analysis Bergen. It was suicidal to start with 2 in the middle with 3 in front of them. The players looked uncomfortable with the formation and unsure of their individual responsibilities. Don't understand why after the second goal went in we did not change formation. Ideally one of Mcatee or Osula should have dropped back but neither are ball winners. Agree Holgate to DM would have been another option. Only when we made changes after the 5th did we look more solid but that was shutting the stable door after the horse had bolted.

Don't think we've played 5-2-3 before under CW so don't understand the logic of using it neither did the players from their performances. CW/AK's reputation of being tactically astute is under threat after the last 2 games. The early season disorganisation has returned. We need to shore up the middle of the park and 5-4-1 or 4-5-1 may have to be the way forward to the end of the season. There is no point taking the game to the opposition if you leaving the wide open spaces we are at the moment. Chopping and changing players isn't helping either. We need a settled system that is hard to beat. A few scruffy draws and then we can look for a more expansive game. We should be looking to build confidence for next season in the championship rather than pursuing a forlorn hope that a couple of wins and we are back in the mix.

 

[Bladezz]

I was staggered we kept to a back 5 all game

We conceded 4 with 5. Unless you’re suggesting we go 6?

 

[Bergen Blade]

Did we go to a back 4? I thought we kept a 5 with Trusty going over to LWB

Yes, 5-3-1-1, as shown here:



3 mins after this Davies replaced McAtee. Davies joined Souza and Osborn in midfield, with Hamer supporting Archer within the same formation as above.

 

[blade67]

Defence and defenders seem to be singled out for criticism, but it's a recurring theme that our midfield is AWOL too often. Today's starting formation was 5-2-3. We were hoping that a front three and high pressing would prevent them from playing out from the back. We started all right, but couldn't keep it up, and consequently our 2-man midfield wasn't enough to stop Villa's lethal counter attacking.

So, let's have a look at the five goals, and how our midfield failed to provide the protection that is absolutely vital at this level, especially when our defenders aren't world class.

1st: Luiz gets on the ball behind our midfield. He is unchallenged and can put Watkins through.

View attachment 178571

2nd: Our attack has broken down and again Luiz is unchallenged and superbly plays Watkins through:

View attachment 178573

3rd: Trusty has pushed up without winning the ball; Watkins gets on the ball behind our midfield. He plays it in behind for Bailey, who runs at panicking defenders who fails to stop him.

View attachment 178574

4th: Following two successive set pieces Tielemans is bizzarly allowed to shoot unchallenged twice and his second effort is brilliant.


View attachment 178575

5th: A messy goal. Villa's key pass is this one, and as can be seen we don't have two traditional departments that the opposition has to break through. RND is closing down the man on the ball hitting the key pass. Trusty has broken out of he backline, focusing on Tielemans dropping deep. AA is pretty much on his own against Watkins again, and Holgate is caught in noman's land. So the midfield at the time is again awol - Brooks further forward, Souza and Hamer more central.

So again Villa's man on the ball has the space to pick his pass, in behind for Watkins to race on to, putting AA in a difficult situation. The man on the ball isn't closed down well enough for him to push up and try to play Watkins offside, and then he is pretty much left on his own against a forward who is excellent in these situations. A few things happen after the screenshot below, but it is another situation where Villa's midfield are unchallenged to pick out the run in behind, and we fail to regain control.

View attachment 178576

Could we have done anything different?


Looking at the photo below, we look back-heavy against a team with one central striker. Five men, how are they not able to deal with him? Well, partly because our midfield was inadequate. Even here, when we have switched to a 5-3-2, we are still unable to put pressure on their defenders while preventing them passing options in midfield.

Our plan was for our midfield to push onto their central midfield playmakers, and then let our wide centre halves to push up to challenge players finding space behind our midfield. Tielemans roamed around in this area and caused problems, Watkins dropped deep and showed great strength, and it just became messy and disorganised as defenders broke out of the line without winning the ball.



View attachment 178579


In hindsight, I would have moved Holgate into midfield to have an extra body there to challenge and deal with Villa's supply line. Maybe that could have enabled a back four to concentrate more (as in pulling together centrally) and keep in control of the space in behind, rather than being forced to decide who's gonna push up, also leaving space behind himself, when do they stay high, etc. Souza and Brooks was inadequate, and it didn't help much moving McAtee a bit deeper.

We finished the match stronger. Obviously Villa had taken the foot of the gas, but it also helped having more solid players in midfield (Davies, Souza and Osborn). I think this match, like our last PL campaign under Wilder, shows that a back five won't automatically make us hard to score against. Being competitive in midfield is going to be key for us to finish the season in a decent manner.

I was shocked at the game how easily they ran away from our defenders for the first three goals, but did wonder how much time they'd had to make some really good passes.

Despite that, the 4th goal was the most shocking with their number 8 having got totally free at the corner before I checked to see who was supposed to pick him up and the answer was no-one. Just on the edge of the box. Souza, I think, operating as our free man on the 6 yard box. Incredible really.

 

[DronnieBlade]

Defence and defenders seem to be singled out for criticism, but it's a recurring theme that our midfield is AWOL too often. Today's starting formation was 5-2-3. We were hoping that a front three and high pressing would prevent them from playing out from the back. We started all right, but couldn't keep it up, and consequently our 2-man midfield wasn't enough to stop Villa's lethal counter attacking.

So, let's have a look at the five goals, and how our midfield failed to provide the protection that is absolutely vital at this level, especially when our defenders aren't world class.

1st: Luiz gets on the ball behind our midfield. He is unchallenged and can put Watkins through.

View attachment 178571

2nd: Our attack has broken down and again Luiz is unchallenged and superbly plays Watkins through:

View attachment 178573

3rd: Trusty has pushed up without winning the ball; Watkins gets on the ball behind our midfield. He plays it in behind for Bailey, who runs at panicking defenders who fails to stop him.

View attachment 178574

4th: Following two successive set pieces Tielemans is bizzarly allowed to shoot unchallenged twice and his second effort is brilliant.


View attachment 178575

5th: A messy goal. Villa's key pass is this one, and as can be seen we don't have two traditional departments that the opposition has to break through. RND is closing down the man on the ball hitting the key pass. Trusty has broken out of he backline, focusing on Tielemans dropping deep. AA is pretty much on his own against Watkins again, and Holgate is caught in noman's land. So the midfield at the time is again awol - Brooks further forward, Souza and Hamer more central.

So again Villa's man on the ball has the space to pick his pass, in behind for Watkins to race on to, putting AA in a difficult situation. The man on the ball isn't closed down well enough for him to push up and try to play Watkins offside, and then he is pretty much left on his own against a forward who is excellent in these situations. A few things happen after the screenshot below, but it is another situation where Villa's midfield are unchallenged to pick out the run in behind, and we fail to regain control.

View attachment 178576

Could we have done anything different?


Looking at the photo below, we look back-heavy against a team with one central striker. Five men, how are they not able to deal with him? Well, partly because our midfield was inadequate. Even here, when we have switched to a 5-3-2, we are still unable to put pressure on their defenders while preventing them passing options in midfield.

Our plan was for our midfield to push onto their central midfield playmakers, and then let our wide centre halves to push up to challenge players finding space behind our midfield. Tielemans roamed around in this area and caused problems, Watkins dropped deep and showed great strength, and it just became messy and disorganised as defenders broke out of the line without winning the ball.



View attachment 178579


In hindsight, I would have moved Holgate into midfield to have an extra body there to challenge and deal with Villa's supply line. Maybe that could have enabled a back four to concentrate more (as in pulling together centrally) and keep in control of the space in behind, rather than being forced to decide who's gonna push up, also leaving space behind himself, when do they stay high, etc. Souza and Brooks was inadequate, and it didn't help much moving McAtee a bit deeper.

We finished the match stronger. Obviously Villa had taken the foot of the gas, but it also helped having more solid players in midfield (Davies, Souza and Osborn). I think this match, like our last PL campaign under Wilder, shows that a back five won't automatically make us hard to score against. Being competitive in midfield is going to be key for us to finish the season in a decent manner.

Villas ability to play slow patient build up leading to fast transition led by REALLY good off the ball movement in the final third was our undoing today.

They were excellent but we played straight in to their hands. Again !!

UTB

 

[Maurice Maurice]

Granted the midfield was appalling today but that shouldn't stop defenders defending. The first one shows 3 defenders and Watkins between them, a long way from goal yet he manages to trot between them, unchallenged and before you know it he has a simple finish and sadly with us, that's game over.

Second goal shows Trusty in no man's land and 2 defenders to pick up 1 attacker. Neither of them knows where to run, how to stop him and again, we simply allow him to go past and score.

Third one Bailey has already shown that he prefers his left foot so what do we do? Show him onto it, we don't know how to push him wide, we don't know how to stand him up and we all stand and watch as he gets it on his preferred foot and score a relatively easy goal.

It's not just today, we can't defend corners, we can't defend against anyone who runs at us and in a 4 defenders against 1 attacker situation, you'd always back the striker. I don't know what we do in training, we have the worst defence I've seen in over 50 years and I don't see any way we can improve with the players we have and the awful tactics we employ.

 

[Tony_Kaufman]

One thing further that irritated me about the second goal was Wes. It was obvious that Anel wasn't going to get back and catch Watkins, but Wes remained rooted on the spot. Why didn't he come out and try to close the angle or tackle Watkins himself. He made it easy for Watkins to finish the move.

 

[Maurice Maurice]

Wes was indecisive on a couple today, and with the shower of shit in front of him it was a recipe for disaster.

 

[Medlock]

Great Post.
Warnock always went 4-5-1, because he was realistic about our limitations in the top league, and it’s got harder since. Now we’ve got 3 Centre Half’s marking each other, and no midfield.
Having said that, I’ve got plenty of time for Jack Robinson, somebody who gives 100%.

 

[bertieblade]

The first goal was initially kept out by Anel, unfortunately struck the post and luckily across goal to enable McGinn to slip into an empty net.
Good piece of anticipation which was admired by Trusty who stopped running back whilst McGinn kept going.
The words pathetic and unprofessional were two of the milder ones I yelled at him.
All in all he was bloody useless, never saw him for the next three goals and I could only admire how he kept the ball in play shin it and then watch as they scored the fifth.
I had hopes for Trusty but he was woeful tonight

 

[finlaytheblade]

Basically Souza is nowhere near it. Ever.

Don't see why Souza & Brooks take all the flack 2 in midfield against a possession based team .
They just past it round us and ran through us leaving the defence hung out to dry against pacey and clever players.
Obviously went into the game with a plan which went horribly wrong.
Tactics! Wilder has to accept criticism for that !
The players are totally demoralised again after starting to recover some beleaf even though we have been shipping goals.
Wilder will learn a lot about his squad after this ! battlers or bottlers ! Which camp as individuals are the players in ! the next chapter will tell us a lot about next seasons squad with so many contracts up.

 

[bladeintheus]

Defence and defenders seem to be singled out for criticism, but it's a recurring theme that our midfield is AWOL too often. Today's starting formation was 5-2-3. We were hoping that a front three and high pressing would prevent them from playing out from the back. We started all right, but couldn't keep it up, and consequently our 2-man midfield wasn't enough to stop Villa's lethal counter attacking.

So, let's have a look at the five goals, and how our midfield failed to provide the protection that is absolutely vital at this level, especially when our defenders aren't world class.

1st: Luiz gets on the ball behind our midfield. He is unchallenged and can put Watkins through.

View attachment 178571

2nd: Our attack has broken down and again Luiz is unchallenged and superbly plays Watkins through:

View attachment 178573

3rd: Trusty has pushed up without winning the ball; Watkins gets on the ball behind our midfield. He plays it in behind for Bailey, who runs at panicking defenders who fails to stop him.

View attachment 178574

4th: Following two successive set pieces Tielemans is bizzarly allowed to shoot unchallenged twice and his second effort is brilliant.


View attachment 178575

5th: A messy goal. Villa's key pass is this one, and as can be seen we don't have two traditional departments that the opposition has to break through. RND is closing down the man on the ball hitting the key pass. Trusty has broken out of he backline, focusing on Tielemans dropping deep. AA is pretty much on his own against Watkins again, and Holgate is caught in noman's land. So the midfield at the time is again awol - Brooks further forward, Souza and Hamer more central.

So again Villa's man on the ball has the space to pick his pass, in behind for Watkins to race on to, putting AA in a difficult situation. The man on the ball isn't closed down well enough for him to push up and try to play Watkins offside, and then he is pretty much left on his own against a forward who is excellent in these situations. A few things happen after the screenshot below, but it is another situation where Villa's midfield are unchallenged to pick out the run in behind, and we fail to regain control.

View attachment 178576

Could we have done anything different?


Looking at the photo below, we look back-heavy against a team with one central striker. Five men, how are they not able to deal with him? Well, partly because our midfield was inadequate. Even here, when we have switched to a 5-3-2, we are still unable to put pressure on their defenders while preventing them passing options in midfield.

Our plan was for our midfield to push onto their central midfield playmakers, and then let our wide centre halves to push up to challenge players finding space behind our midfield. Tielemans roamed around in this area and caused problems, Watkins dropped deep and showed great strength, and it just became messy and disorganised as defenders broke out of the line without winning the ball.



View attachment 178579


In hindsight, I would have moved Holgate into midfield to have an extra body there to challenge and deal with Villa's supply line. Maybe that could have enabled a back four to concentrate more (as in pulling together centrally) and keep in control of the space in behind, rather than being forced to decide who's gonna push up, also leaving space behind himself, when do they stay high, etc. Souza and Brooks was inadequate, and it didn't help much moving McAtee a bit deeper.

We finished the match stronger. Obviously Villa had taken the foot of the gas, but it also helped having more solid players in midfield (Davies, Souza and Osborn). I think this match, like our last PL campaign under Wilder, shows that a back five won't automatically make us hard to score against. Being competitive in midfield is going to be key for us to finish the season in a decent manner.

First goal summed up our lack of quality, understanding and desire to keep the ball out of the net.

Look where McGinn starts from….we have 2 defenders (other than Anel) closer to the goal than McGinn.

He, as a quality player, sees what might happen and anticipates….we don’t “see” and are far too late to even contemplate reacting.

Lots of goals similar to this because we don’t see (sometimes because we don’t look) at what might happen and position & play accordingly.

Players simply not good nor experienced enough.

 

[John Street West Terrace]

Defence and defenders seem to be singled out for criticism, but it's a recurring theme that our midfield is AWOL too often. Today's starting formation was 5-2-3. We were hoping that a front three and high pressing would prevent them from playing out from the back. We started all right, but couldn't keep it up, and consequently our 2-man midfield wasn't enough to stop Villa's lethal counter attacking.

So, let's have a look at the five goals, and how our midfield failed to provide the protection that is absolutely vital at this level, especially when our defenders aren't world class.

1st: Luiz gets on the ball behind our midfield. He is unchallenged and can put Watkins through.

View attachment 178571

2nd: Our attack has broken down and again Luiz is unchallenged and superbly plays Watkins through:

View attachment 178573

3rd: Trusty has pushed up without winning the ball; Watkins gets on the ball behind our midfield. He plays it in behind for Bailey, who runs at panicking defenders who fails to stop him.

View attachment 178574

4th: Following two successive set pieces Tielemans is bizzarly allowed to shoot unchallenged twice and his second effort is brilliant.


View attachment 178575

5th: A messy goal. Villa's key pass is this one, and as can be seen we don't have two traditional departments that the opposition has to break through. RND is closing down the man on the ball hitting the key pass. Trusty has broken out of he backline, focusing on Tielemans dropping deep. AA is pretty much on his own against Watkins again, and Holgate is caught in noman's land. So the midfield at the time is again awol - Brooks further forward, Souza and Hamer more central.

So again Villa's man on the ball has the space to pick his pass, in behind for Watkins to race on to, putting AA in a difficult situation. The man on the ball isn't closed down well enough for him to push up and try to play Watkins offside, and then he is pretty much left on his own against a forward who is excellent in these situations. A few things happen after the screenshot below, but it is another situation where Villa's midfield are unchallenged to pick out the run in behind, and we fail to regain control.

View attachment 178576

Could we have done anything different?


Looking at the photo below, we look back-heavy against a team with one central striker. Five men, how are they not able to deal with him? Well, partly because our midfield was inadequate. Even here, when we have switched to a 5-3-2, we are still unable to put pressure on their defenders while preventing them passing options in midfield.

Our plan was for our midfield to push onto their central midfield playmakers, and then let our wide centre halves to push up to challenge players finding space behind our midfield. Tielemans roamed around in this area and caused problems, Watkins dropped deep and showed great strength, and it just became messy and disorganised as defenders broke out of the line without winning the ball.



View attachment 178579


In hindsight, I would have moved Holgate into midfield to have an extra body there to challenge and deal with Villa's supply line. Maybe that could have enabled a back four to concentrate more (as in pulling together centrally) and keep in control of the space in behind, rather than being forced to decide who's gonna push up, also leaving space behind himself, when do they stay high, etc. Souza and Brooks was inadequate, and it didn't help much moving McAtee a bit deeper.

We finished the match stronger. Obviously Villa had taken the foot of the gas, but it also helped having more solid players in midfield (Davies, Souza and Osborn). I think this match, like our last PL campaign under Wilder, shows that a back five won't automatically make us hard to score against. Being competitive in midfield is going to be key for us to finish the season in a decent manner.

The tactics were fkg awful .. Jesus we couldn’t have got it more wrong the 1st 45 mins . Their 3 CB’s given the freedom of Sheff to carry the ball unchallenged until we retreated 20 yds in our own half , then pmsy a 1-2 with midfielder coming back towards them & a lithe dink behind our back line … fk me we were getting opened up with basics … we shouldn’t be anywhere this division … we arent as fit which should be a given , tactically nieve , devoid of any leaders … on a brighter note the unders mattress has grown 6 inches

 

[bertieblade]

Hopefully Wilder also learns that yet again he played the wrong players in the wrong formation.

 

[Shawy24]

Defence and defenders seem to be singled out for criticism, but it's a recurring theme that our midfield is AWOL too often. Today's starting formation was 5-2-3. We were hoping that a front three and high pressing would prevent them from playing out from the back. We started all right, but couldn't keep it up, and consequently our 2-man midfield wasn't enough to stop Villa's lethal counter attacking.

So, let's have a look at the five goals, and how our midfield failed to provide the protection that is absolutely vital at this level, especially when our defenders aren't world class.

1st: Luiz gets on the ball behind our midfield. He is unchallenged and can put Watkins through.

View attachment 178571

2nd: Our attack has broken down and again Luiz is unchallenged and superbly plays Watkins through:

View attachment 178573

3rd: Trusty has pushed up without winning the ball; Watkins gets on the ball behind our midfield. He plays it in behind for Bailey, who runs at panicking defenders who fails to stop him.

View attachment 178574

4th: Following two successive set pieces Tielemans is bizzarly allowed to shoot unchallenged twice and his second effort is brilliant.


View attachment 178575

5th: A messy goal. Villa's key pass is this one, and as can be seen we don't have two traditional departments that the opposition has to break through. RND is closing down the man on the ball hitting the key pass. Trusty has broken out of he backline, focusing on Tielemans dropping deep. AA is pretty much on his own against Watkins again, and Holgate is caught in noman's land. So the midfield at the time is again awol - Brooks further forward, Souza and Hamer more central.

So again Villa's man on the ball has the space to pick his pass, in behind for Watkins to race on to, putting AA in a difficult situation. The man on the ball isn't closed down well enough for him to push up and try to play Watkins offside, and then he is pretty much left on his own against a forward who is excellent in these situations. A few things happen after the screenshot below, but it is another situation where Villa's midfield are unchallenged to pick out the run in behind, and we fail to regain control.

View attachment 178576

Could we have done anything different?


Looking at the photo below, we look back-heavy against a team with one central striker. Five men, how are they not able to deal with him? Well, partly because our midfield was inadequate. Even here, when we have switched to a 5-3-2, we are still unable to put pressure on their defenders while preventing them passing options in midfield.

Our plan was for our midfield to push onto their central midfield playmakers, and then let our wide centre halves to push up to challenge players finding space behind our midfield. Tielemans roamed around in this area and caused problems, Watkins dropped deep and showed great strength, and it just became messy and disorganised as defenders broke out of the line without winning the ball.



View attachment 178579


In hindsight, I would have moved Holgate into midfield to have an extra body there to challenge and deal with Villa's supply line. Maybe that could have enabled a back four to concentrate more (as in pulling together centrally) and keep in control of the space in behind, rather than being forced to decide who's gonna push up, also leaving space behind himself, when do they stay high, etc. Souza and Brooks was inadequate, and it didn't help much moving McAtee a bit deeper.

We finished the match stronger. Obviously Villa had taken the foot of the gas, but it also helped having more solid players in midfield (Davies, Souza and Osborn). I think this match, like our last PL campaign under Wilder, shows that a back five won't automatically make us hard to score against. Being competitive in midfield is going to be key for us to finish the season in a decent manner.

I wasn’t sure about the 5 -3 -2 you described. Daughter asked me at the start what formation we were playing and I had to concede I was confused and that it seemed to be some sort of 5-3-1-1 or 5-2-2-1. We therefore settled on what it said on the BBC of 5-4-1. Now if we were confused, think of the players……….

That it was a 3 soon became apparent, but why in such a narrow formation? Arm Wavy Vini kept wanting Brookes and Macatee closer to him as though he thought we were going to inter pass our way upfield whilst leaving huge areas of space for Villa to flood into. Poor old Brookes looked lost. Faced on attack with a congested midfield against him and an immobile central partner and in defence with having to shoot out wide to cover the area he would normally have been playing in. It was also noticeable that Diaz kept looking back for assistance on the press and waving for assistance forward only to find that assistance was 25 yards back stuck in the middle with Arm Wavy Vini.

I haven’t a clue whether that shape and the operation of it was on Wilder or Vini, but the fact that Wilder seems so enamoured of him doesn’t bode well. I will merely say that following years of playing and watching football I observe that players that do a lot of pointing are either shit or past it. Dean Hammond James Harper and Ollie Norwood being in the past it camp. As Vini is only 24 I have to conclude he’s probably as shit as you’d expect a player to be from the Spanish and Belgian minor leagues.

I’m afraid you can’t build a premiership midfield 3 on someone so immobile.

 

[alcoblade]

Great Post.
Warnock always went 4-5-1, because he was realistic about our limitations in the top league, and it’s got harder since. Now we’ve got 3 Centre Half’s marking each other, and no midfield.
Having said that, I’ve got plenty of time for Jack Robinson, somebody who gives 100%.

I’m this awful defence, I’m gobsmacked that Robinson has lost his place. The only defender to come out with any credibility this season.

 

[chesblade]

Although it was a poor result thought Holgate looked decent for his 1st game. Put some decent crosses in

 

[Pintor75]

One thing further that irritated me about the second goal was Wes. It was obvious that Anel wasn't going to get back and catch Watkins, but Wes remained rooted on the spot. Why didn't he come out and try to close the angle or tackle Watkins himself. He made it easy for Watkins to finish the move.

Just waved his hand at the ball never attempting to dive

 

[Blacksea]

Defence and defenders seem to be singled out for criticism, but it's a recurring theme that our midfield is AWOL too often. Today's starting formation was 5-2-3. We were hoping that a front three and high pressing would prevent them from playing out from the back. We started all right, but couldn't keep it up, and consequently our 2-man midfield wasn't enough to stop Villa's lethal counter attacking.

So, let's have a look at the five goals, and how our midfield failed to provide the protection that is absolutely vital at this level, especially when our defenders aren't world class.

1st: Luiz gets on the ball behind our midfield. He is unchallenged and can put Watkins through.

View attachment 178571

2nd: Our attack has broken down and again Luiz is unchallenged and superbly plays Watkins through:

View attachment 178573

3rd: Trusty has pushed up without winning the ball; Watkins gets on the ball behind our midfield. He plays it in behind for Bailey, who runs at panicking defenders who fails to stop him.

View attachment 178574

4th: Following two successive set pieces Tielemans is bizzarly allowed to shoot unchallenged twice and his second effort is brilliant.


View attachment 178575

5th: A messy goal. Villa's key pass is this one, and as can be seen we don't have two traditional departments that the opposition has to break through. RND is closing down the man on the ball hitting the key pass. Trusty has broken out of he backline, focusing on Tielemans dropping deep. AA is pretty much on his own against Watkins again, and Holgate is caught in noman's land. So the midfield at the time is again awol - Brooks further forward, Souza and Hamer more central.

So again Villa's man on the ball has the space to pick his pass, in behind for Watkins to race on to, putting AA in a difficult situation. The man on the ball isn't closed down well enough for him to push up and try to play Watkins offside, and then he is pretty much left on his own against a forward who is excellent in these situations. A few things happen after the screenshot below, but it is another situation where Villa's midfield are unchallenged to pick out the run in behind, and we fail to regain control.

View attachment 178576

Could we have done anything different?


Looking at the photo below, we look back-heavy against a team with one central striker. Five men, how are they not able to deal with him? Well, partly because our midfield was inadequate. Even here, when we have switched to a 5-3-2, we are still unable to put pressure on their defenders while preventing them passing options in midfield.

Our plan was for our midfield to push onto their central midfield playmakers, and then let our wide centre halves to push up to challenge players finding space behind our midfield. Tielemans roamed around in this area and caused problems, Watkins dropped deep and showed great strength, and it just became messy and disorganised as defenders broke out of the line without winning the ball.



View attachment 178579


In hindsight, I would have moved Holgate into midfield to have an extra body there to challenge and deal with Villa's supply line. Maybe that could have enabled a back four to concentrate more (as in pulling together centrally) and keep in control of the space in behind, rather than being forced to decide who's gonna push up, also leaving space behind himself, when do they stay high, etc. Souza and Brooks was inadequate, and it didn't help much moving McAtee a bit deeper.

We finished the match stronger. Obviously Villa had taken the foot of the gas, but it also helped having more solid players in midfield (Davies, Souza and Osborn). I think this match, like our last PL campaign under Wilder, shows that a back five won't automatically make us hard to score against. Being competitive in midfield is going to be key for us to finish the season in a decent manner.

First goal Anel is playing Watkins onside
Second goal,the supposed high line we played isn't high enough,or Watkins is offside again.

 

[Bergen Blade]

First goal Anel is playing Watkins onside
Second goal,the supposed high line we played isn't high enough,or Watkins is offside again.

There's a general rule about zonal defending - if the man on the ball is poorly closed down, don't push up. It is too risky, and some strikers are really good at breaking the offside trap with a clever run.

So in both situations you mention, I would have recommended our defence (preferably in a straight line) to drop deeper - always stay in control of the space in behind.