Goals

[Bladesman101]

Maybe a little early, but do we have an issue scoring goals? This isn’t a Moore-bashing thread as I don’t think he’s missed many sitters (barring the pen).

Could be a new team waiting to click? We seem very organised and a brilliant unit, but really in the last 3 games, we’ve scored 2 goals at Hull where they left themselves wide open from their own corners, a brilliant free kick v derby, and drawn a blank v Pompey.

Maybe when we play better sides they’ll play more open and we’ll see a slightly different outcome, I went to the game yesterday and Rak-Sakyi was brilliant, and you’ve got to remember he’s been injured for about a year I think, so when he gets fully match fit I think we’ll see an unbelievable championship player.

Maybe over-thinking, as wilder is just trying to get the foundations right with a new team, but I’d like to see us create more 7,8/10 chances in games than we are atm!

 

[Brian Deane]

Can't score goals if the team as a whole isn't creating enough clear cut chances.
That is the bigger issue, making the wrong or indecisive decisions at the critical point.

 

[3Cheers4Ramirez]

Relying on O'Hare and Moore as our main pair of forward players would appear to point to a lack of joined up thinking with recruitment. Because it is in no way a suitable, adequate pairing to get you into the top 2. It's been painfully evident

It's as though we just tried to sign good players with no plan as to how they'd actually fit together

But I can't believe that was the case. I'm sure we wanted another 2 players in the forward positions but for some reason the owner pulled the plug when we were on the verge of a very strong top 2 standard squad

But even as we are, we can do better. Wilder has to learn how to manage O'Hare and Moore. They're not players to start every game. Especially O'Hare. Look at yesterday, he did absolutely fuck all, unsurprisingly

Hamer has to be allowed to play where he wants, with everyone else accommodated around that

There's nothing wrong with playing a winger on their natural side either. Especially ahead of full backs who don't get forward much. Yet I've not seen JRS pop up on the left once. Well, we're overstacked at RW and devoid at LW. So Wilder is going to have to do the unthinkable at some point. Brooks and JRS can both do plenty of damage out on the left side and they'd help stretch the pitch to open space for Hamer inside

Another option, probably the best in my view, is to go back to a back 3. Shove 2 players closer to Moore (JRS and Hamer), bring Seriki in, and re-establish the source of crosses again with WBs pushed up providing natural width

Whatever the solutions are, this needs addressing as a priority because we aren't scoring enough, don't look like scoring enough, and the harder games haven't even started yet

We can't expect the defence to keep bailing us out. Nobody sustains conceding less than 1 in 2

 

[Berkshire Blade]

All down to summer business.

None of the players in the squad are regular goalscorers

 

[CaptainMorgans]

Relying on O'Hare and Moore as our main pair of forward players would appear to point to a lack of joined up thinking with recruitment. Because it is in no way a suitable, adequate pairing to get you into the top 2. It's been painfully evident

It's as though we just tried to sign good players with no plan as to how they'd actually fit together

But I can't believe that was the case. I'm sure we wanted another 2 players in the forward positions but for some reason the owner pulled the plug when we were on the verge of a very strong top 2 standard squad

But even as we are, we can do better. Wilder has to learn how to manage O'Hare and Moore. They're not players to start every game. Especially O'Hare. Look at yesterday, he did absolutely fuck all, unsurprisingly

Hamer has to be allowed to play where he wants, with everyone else accommodated around that

There's nothing wrong with playing a winger on their natural side either. Especially ahead of full backs who don't get forward much. Yet I've not seen JRS pop up on the left once. Well, we're overstacked at RW and devoid at LW. So Wilder is going to have to do the unthinkable at some point. Brooks and JRS can both do plenty of damage out on the left side and they'd help stretch the pitch to open space for Hamer inside

Another option, probably the best in my view, is to go back to a back 3. Shove 2 players closer to Moore (JRS and Hamer), bring Seriki in, and re-establish the source of crosses again with WBs pushed up providing natural width

Whatever the solutions are, this needs addressing as a priority because we aren't scoring enough, don't look like scoring enough, and the harder games haven't even started yet

We can't expect the defence to keep bailing us out. Nobody sustains conceding less than 1 in 2

I wouldn't want to see us tinkering with our back 4 as it seems to be our source of strength at the moment, but agree with what you've said re: dropping O'Hare and putting Hamer into the 10 position.

The options to fill the LW position are Brooks, JRS, Campbell or even Burrows (with McCallum or RND playing LB).

Something needs to change as we're not creating anything from open play.
Hull were tactically suicidal against us and left huge gaps and even a poor Derby side were only undone by a great FK.

Brewster & Campbell gave us a very brief look at what a bit of extra pace & mobility could look like at the top of the pitch yesterday, it would be nice to see more of it as they get up to speed.

 

[petcharlie]

Maybe a little early, but do we have an issue scoring goals? This isn’t a Moore-bashing thread as I don’t think he’s missed many sitters (barring the pen).

Could be a new team waiting to click? We seem very organised and a brilliant unit, but really in the last 3 games, we’ve scored 2 goals at Hull where they left themselves wide open from their own corners, a brilliant free kick v derby, and drawn a blank v Pompey.

Maybe when we play better sides they’ll play more open and we’ll see a slightly different outcome, I went to the game yesterday and Rak-Sakyi was brilliant, and you’ve got to remember he’s been injured for about a year I think, so when he gets fully match fit I think we’ll see an unbelievable championship player.

Maybe over-thinking, as wilder is just trying to get the foundations right with a new team, but I’d like to see us create more 7,8/10 chances in games than we are atm!

We have had this problem for about 4 or 5 years now ,nothing new . Even in our promotion years there's been a underlying problem of goal scoring . The defence has carried us (not last year true) and it seems that could be the case this year to . When we finished 9th in the prem it was down to the defence being strong but as the great Brian Clough said to build a good team the defence should be the first priority . I think we will have to experiment a bit ,maybe Brewster and Campbell up top might be worth a shot but I trust Wilder to have a shuffle may be in training and see how it goes .

 

[bladesmanluke]

We're heavily reliant on Rhian or Campbell rediscovering some goal scoring form

 

[Bladedog]

Wouldn't expect to see Moore on the bench anytime soon after wilders comments Friday.

 

[Coolblade]

It sounds a bit drastic given we’re unbeaten, but I still feel the old formation would suit us better, certainly in terms of greating chance creation. Gilchrist would be a great RCB, Burrows a great LWB, Hamer is better central without defensive responsibilities, and Moore would more effective with a striker alongside. A back 3 of Gil, Souttar and Anel, Burrows and Seriki/Brooks giving wing back width. 2 of Arb/Vini/Peck to hold mid, Hamer as CAM, and Moore up top supported by Brewster/Campbell (or O’Hare)

But it’s hard to complain!

 

[Brian Blessed]

We're heavily reliant on Rhian or Campbell rediscovering some goal scoring form

Or discovering, anyway.

 

[ancientblade]

It sounds a bit drastic given we’re unbeaten, but I still feel the old formation would suit us better, certainly in terms of greating chance creation. Gilchrist would be a great RCB, Burrows a great LWB, Hamer is better central without defensive responsibilities, and Moore would more effective with a striker alongside. A back 3 of Gil, Souttar and Anel, Burrows and Seriki/Brooks giving wing back width. 2 of Arb/Vini/Peck to hold mid, Hamer as CAM, and Moore up top supported by Brewster/Campbell (or O’Hare)

But it’s hard to complain!

do you know you might well be right and thats from somebody who advocated us reverting to a back 4 but somethings not quite working with the 4231 set up like the idea of gilchrist souttar and anel as a back 3 with seriki and burrows as wing backs souza and arblaster with hamer as the number 10 and get another striker alongside moore

 

[Bergen Blade]

I wouldn't want to see us tinkering with our back 4 as it seems to be our source of strength at the moment, but agree with what you've said re: dropping O'Hare and putting Hamer into the 10 position.

The options to fill the LW position are Brooks, JRS, Campbell or even Burrows (with McCallum or RND playing LB).

Something needs to change as we're not creating anything from open play.
Hull were tactically suicidal against us and left huge gaps and even a poor Derby side were only undone by a great FK.

Brewster & Campbell gave us a very brief look at what a bit of extra pace & mobility could look like at the top of the pitch yesterday, it would be nice to see more of it as they get up to speed.

Agreed. It doesn't have to be an admittance that we were wrong to sign O'Hare. He's not been in great form, and with him and Moore there's a lack of pace and goalscoring ability up front. Maybe it'll do him good to be brought on as a sub when opposition legs are tiring.

As you say there are a few options to try before thinking about changing the formation.

 

[JayGreen17]

Maybe a little early, but do we have an issue scoring goals? This isn’t a Moore-bashing thread as I don’t think he’s missed many sitters (barring the pen).

Could be a new team waiting to click? We seem very organised and a brilliant unit, but really in the last 3 games, we’ve scored 2 goals at Hull where they left themselves wide open from their own corners, a brilliant free kick v derby, and drawn a blank v Pompey.

Maybe when we play better sides they’ll play more open and we’ll see a slightly different outcome, I went to the game yesterday and Rak-Sakyi was brilliant, and you’ve got to remember he’s been injured for about a year I think, so when he gets fully match fit I think we’ll see an unbelievable championship player.

Maybe over-thinking, as wilder is just trying to get the foundations right with a new team, but I’d like to see us create more 7,8/10 chances in games than we are atm!

Very much reminds me of our our first season back in the champ from league 1 getting in some great positions but either waiting too late to deliver the killer pass or shot or making the wrong choice.

Leave it until about game 10, but if the clear cut chances aren’t coming then we need to have a rethink at the top end of the pitch.

 

[bakeblade]

According to the xg table we're doing OK

Maybe a little early, but do we have an issue scoring goals? This isn’t a Moore-bashing thread as I don’t think he’s missed many sitters (barring the pen).

Could be a new team waiting to click? We seem very organised and a brilliant unit, but really in the last 3 games, we’ve scored 2 goals at Hull where they left themselves wide open from their own corners, a brilliant free kick v derby, and drawn a blank v Pompey.

Maybe when we play better sides they’ll play more open and we’ll see a slightly different outcome, I went to the game yesterday and Rak-Sakyi was brilliant, and you’ve got to remember he’s been injured for about a year I think, so when he gets fully match fit I think we’ll see an unbelievable championship player.

Maybe over-thinking, as wilder is just trying to get the foundations right with a new team, but I’d like to see us create more 7,8/10 chances in games than we are atm!

We're actually 6th in the Expected goals table and 3rd in XG against, so doing quite well really.
However we can all see we need to improve offensively

 

[Bladesman101]

According to the xg table we're doing OK

We're actually 6th in the Expected goals table and 3rd in XG against, so doing quite well really.
However we can all see we need to improve offensively

XG means nothing

 

[bakeblade]

XG means nothing

I think most people involved in football these days might disagree with you

 

[wak1889]

XG means nothing

I'm old enough to remember when XG was just called chances , and it's when U don't create chances U need to worry ,

 

[gaz kay]

XG means nothing

It does though. At the end of the season the final league table will be similar to the xg table

 

[true99blade]

I'm old enough to remember when XG was just called chances , and it's when U don't create chances U need to worry ,

It has never just meant ‘chances’ though.

 

[FTPE]

It sounds a bit drastic given we’re unbeaten, but I still feel the old formation would suit us better, certainly in terms of greating chance creation. Gilchrist would be a great RCB, Burrows a great LWB, Hamer is better central without defensive responsibilities, and Moore would more effective with a striker alongside. A back 3 of Gil, Souttar and Anel, Burrows and Seriki/Brooks giving wing back width. 2 of Arb/Vini/Peck to hold mid, Hamer as CAM, and Moore up top supported by Brewster/Campbell (or O’Hare)

But it’s hard to complain!

I like it, but it's almost like putting in another centre back even though we dont need one. We look solid at the back as it is.
I'd like to see us play with just one holding midfielder, push Arblaster into the center of the 3 (drop O'Hare until the 60th min) and play Campbell off Moore. Or, Brooks on the right and JRS off Moore.

 

[Bladesman101]

It does though. At the end of the season the final league table will be similar to the xg table

Well obviously, XG will be similar to goals scored, and the teams who score more finish higher usually. Meaningless stat that offers nothing more than what you can already work out

 

[wak1889]

It has never just meant ‘chances’ though.

It does really doesn't it , the teams that create the most chances have the highest expected goals return , the teams that finish more of the chances have a higher actual goals return and therefore win more games ,

 

[true99blade]

It does really doesn't it , the teams that create the most chances have the highest expected goals return , the teams that finish more of the chances have a higher actual goals return and therefore win more games ,

There’s never really been a stat referring to ‘chances’ unless you just mean ‘shots’ or ‘shots on target’, which can be completely meaningless if a team pops 10 shots from 45 yards, it can be deceiving. XG tells you the chance that a shot has of going in on average from the distance, angle, etc. It’s not 100% but it’s far more telling than just how many shots a team has in general.

 

[Pintor75]

We have to start two up front, especially at home, or at least 4411 with Hamer up/just behind Moore, Rak-Sakyi, Souza, Arblaster O'Hare in midfield

 

[jt64]

Well we have a midweek game, so I have to think there should be some rotation or tinkering of the midfield/forward lines and that maybe we stumble across something that works better by accident

 

[ancientblade]

We have to start two up front, especially at home, or at least 4411 with Hamer up/just behind Moore, Rak-Sakyi, Souza, Arblaster O'Hare in midfield

agree i would give the moore brewster combination a go in these 2 home games and bench o'hare hes done nothing for me to warrant a starting place

 

[Working Class Hero]

It sounds a bit drastic given we’re unbeaten, but I still feel the old formation would suit us better, certainly in terms of greating chance creation. Gilchrist would be a great RCB, Burrows a great LWB, Hamer is better central without defensive responsibilities, and Moore would more effective with a striker alongside. A back 3 of Gil, Souttar and Anel, Burrows and Seriki/Brooks giving wing back width. 2 of Arb/Vini/Peck to hold mid, Hamer as CAM, and Moore up top supported by Brewster/Campbell (or O’Hare)

But it’s hard to complain!

I don't think there's necessarily a need for a change of formation, but you're definitely correct in that our full backs don't get forward enough (or at least not as much as we're used to seeing in modern day football).

Burrows obviously does more than Gilchrist, but he still hasn't exactly been an attacking full back. For me that's a big part of why we're not scoring enough goals.

I'm not particularly saying we should even change that, as the flip side is that defensively we're performing excellently.

 

[ThirdGenBlade]

Because our goals scored is above our XG our problem is not finishing it is creating chances. I think (I may be wrong) that 1 up front, when it is Big Kieff, and you play to go outside and across, doesn’t create a lot because there is nobody there to finish.

With Big Kieff you need 2 up front to feed off him. If you want to go round and across you need a nippy poacher up the middle attacking near post.

UTB &FTP

 

[Keen Blade]

Wouldn't expect to see Moore on the bench anytime soon after wilders comments Friday.

Wilder can change his mind though -Gbric went from being "our no.1 goalie" to dropped and loaned out
(admittedly after he'd taken the advice proffered on here)

 

[Keen Blade]

Well we have a midweek game, so I have to think there should be some rotation or tinkering of the midfield/forward lines and that maybe we stumble across something that works better by accident

Management - the art of stumbling across success by accident !